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Flannery O’Connor’s White Trash
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Flannery O’Connor
Flannery O’Connor

Though Flannery O’Connor didn’t live long, she left us some of the best stories ever written. It’s impossible to overpraise “A Good Man Is Hard to Find,” “The Life You Save May Be Your Own,” “The Displaced Person,” “The Artificial Nigger,” “Good Country People,” “Everything That Rises Must Converge” and “Revelation.”

O’Connor’s liberal usage of the word “nigger” has always made many people uncomfortable, however, and considering today’s politically correct climate, she’s likely to have been canceled from most college syllabi.

Most damningly, there are passages from O’Connor’s correspondences that even her staunchest defenders can’t whitewash. On May 3rd, 1964, just three months before her death from lupus, O’Connor wrote to Maryat Lee, “You know, I’m an integrationist by principle & a segregationist by taste anyway. I don’t like negroes. They all give me a pain and the more of them I see, the less and less I like them. Particularly the new kind.”

So O’Connor allowed or forced herself to think one way, but felt otherwise. On May 21st, O’Connor elaborated to Lee, “About the Negroes, the kind I don’t like is the philosophizing prophesying pontificating kind, the James Baldwin kind. Very ignorant but never silent. Baldwin can tell us what it feels like to be a Negro in Harlem but he tries to tell us everything else too […] If Baldwin were white nobody would stand him a minute.”

Negroes shouldn’t philosophize, prophesize or pontificate, you see. It’s a white thang.

O’Connor’s disdain and condescension towards blacks don’t show up in her fiction, however. Integrationist by principle, she’s not a racist against blacks in her art.

In O’Connor’s stories, blacks are generally dignified and likable, unlike her idiotic, freakish or criminal white trash. When O’Connor’s blacks transgress, it’s rather harmlessly, like stealing a turkey. They’re not smug idiots, confidence tricksters or murderers, like her white trash.

Unlike the one-armed white trash in “The Life You Save May Be Your Own,” O’Connor’s blacks don’t steal your car and abandon your deaf daughter at a roadside diner, miles from home. Unlike the three coolly depraved white trash in “A Good Man Is Hard to Find,” they don’t shoot your grandchildren, including a baby, before finishing you off.

In “The Artificial Nigger,” a brainless rural white trash, ironically named Mr. Head, takes his grandson to Atlanta, to teach him an important lesson, “Mr. Head meant him to see everything there is to see in a city so that he would be content to stay at home for the rest of his life.”

To Mr. Head’s dismay, the boy, Nelson, was doggedly proud to have been born in Atlanta. An orphan, Nelson had spent his first six months there.

Even on the train there, Mr. Head behaved moronically. Rudely waking other passengers, he read aloud everything on his ticket. Later, Mr. Head declared the name of each passing building, forcing Nelson to hiss, “Hush up!” The boy had more innate dignity than his grandpa.

At home, Mr. Head had stressed to Nelson that Atlanta was “full of niggers,” and since the boy had never encountered one, he was totally unprepared for this nightmare. Now on the train, three blacks appeared.

O’Connor, “A huge coffee-colored man was coming slowly forward. He had on a light suit and a yellow satin tie with a ruby pin in it. One of his hands which rode majestically under his buttoned coat, and in the other he held the head of a black walking stick that he picked up and set down with a deliberate outward motion each time he took a step. He was proceeding very slowly, his large brown eyes gazing over the heads of the passengers. He had a small white mustache and white crinkly hair. Behind him there were two young women, both coffee-colored, one in a yellow dress and one in a green. Their progress was kept at the rate of his and they chatted in low throaty voices as they followed him.”

Much classier than Mr. Head and Nelson, the blacks were headed for the dining car. Later, Mr. Head also took his grandson there, but only to look. They couldn’t afford it.

Shooed away after they had tried to poke into the kitchen, Mr. Head cracked a loud joke about cockroaches that got everyone laughing. Triumphant, they returned to their seats.

For lunch, Mr. Head had brought a paper bag with some biscuits and a can of sardine, but in their excitement to get off the train, they forgot all about it, so went hungry for the rest of the day.

Tossed into the swirling city, both of them were overwhelmed, but grandpa had a strategy, “Mr. Head was determined not to go into any city store because on his first trip here, he had got lost in a large one and had found his way out only after many people had insulted him.”

Walking along, they browsed stores and even inspected the sewer, for Nelson’s much needed edification. Soon enough, though, they were lost. The houses had become much shabbier, and there were blacks everywhere.

O’Connor, “There were colored men in their undershirts standing in the doors and colored women rocking on the sagging porches. Colored children played in the gutters and stopped what they were doing to look at them. Before long they began to pass rows of stores with colored customers in them but they didn’t pause at the entrances of these. Black eyes in black faces were watching them from every direction.”

In this “nigger heaven,” Mr. Head was too intimidated to ask for directions, so it was left to the boy to approach a woman.

ORDER IT NOW

During their brief exchange, the motherless boy was overtaken by a painful, deeply smothered yearning, “He suddenly wanted her to reach down and pick him up and draw him against her and then he wanted to feel her breath on his face. He wanted to look down and down into her eyes while she held him tighter and tighter. He had never had such a feeling before.”

Unaware of this turbulence, the sweet woman merely responded, “You can go a block down yonder and catch you a car take you to the railroad station, Sugarpie.”

Since Mr. Head had never taken a streetcar, they didn’t board one, but merely follow the tracks. When you’re so ignorant yet proud, everything is impossible. Too exhausted and hungry to go on, Nelson had to sit down on the sidewalk, and when he dozed off, Mr. Head had an inspiration.

O’Connor, “He looked at the sprawled figure for several minutes; presently he stood up. He justified what he was going to do on the grounds that it is sometimes necessary to teach a child a lesson he won’t forget, particularly when the child is always reasserting his position with some new impudence. He walked without a sound to the corner about twenty feet away and sat down on a covered garbage can in the alley where he could look out and watch Nelson wake up alone.”

Nelson’s latest impudence was to ask that black lady for help. He needed to be taught a lesson for showing up his grandpa. White trash on a trash can, Mr. Head waited for Nelson’s waking terror.

The boy slept on. Impatient, Mr. Head finally kicked the trash can to jolt Nelson awake.

O’Connor, “Nelson shot up onto his feet with a shout. He looked where his grandfather should have been and stared. He seemed to whirl several times and then, picking up his feet and throwing his head back, he dashed down the street like a wild maddened pony.”

Chasing after, Mr. Head lost sight of Nelson. After the third intersection, he came upon this scene, “Nelson was sitting with both legs spread out and by his side lay an elderly woman, screaming. Groceries were scattered about the sidewalk. A crowd of women had already gathered to see justice done and Mr. Head distinctly heard the old woman on the pavement shout, ‘You’ve broken my ankle and your daddy’ll pay for it! Every nickel! Police! Police!’ Several of the women were plucking at Nelson’s shoulder but the boy seemed too dazed to get up.”

Instead of running to his grandson, Mr. Head hid behind a “trash box” to “get his bearings.” Again, the trash motif. Finally, he approached Nelson, “but only at a creeping pace.”

O’Connor, “The women were milling around Nelson as if they might suddenly all dive on him at once and tear him to pieces, and the old woman continued to scream that her ankle was broken and to call for an officer. Mr. Head came on so slowly that he could have been taking a backward step after each forward one, but when he was about ten feet away, Nelson saw him and sprang. The child caught him around the hips and clung panting against him.”

With the enraged women’s attention turned on him, Mr. Head did something so horrible, it’d sear and shame him forever.

O’Connor:

Mr. Head sensed the approach of the policeman from behind. He stared straight ahead at the women who were massed in their fury like a solid wall to block his escape, “This is not my boy,” he said. “I never seen him before.”

He felt Nelson’s fingers fall out of his flesh.

The women dropped back, staring at him with horror, as if they were so repulsed by a man who would deny his own image and likeness that they could not bear to lay hands on him. Mr. Head walked on, through a space they silently cleared, and left Nelson behind. Ahead of him he saw nothing but a hollow tunnel that had once been the street.

Throughout this story, Mr. Head had strangely competed against Nelson, such was his smallness, but with this cowardly act, he became less-than-nothing, but what do you expect from an O’Connor’s white trash? They’re simply the worst.

In another story, “Revelation,” O’Connor reemphasizes this point:

Sometimes at night when she couldn’t go to sleep, Mrs. Turpin would occupy herself with the question of who she would have chosen to be if she couldn’t have been herself. If Jesus had said to her before he made her, ‘There’s only two places available for you. You can either be a nigger or white-trash,’ what would she have said? ‘Please, Jesus, please,’ she would have said, ‘just let me wait until there’s another place available,’ and he would have said, ‘No, you have to go right now and I have only those two places so make up your mind.’ She would have wiggled and squirmed and begged and pleaded but it would have been no use and finally she would have said, ‘All right, make me a nigger then—but that don’t mean a trashy one.’ And he would have made her a neat clean respectable Negro woman, herself but black.

Born and raised in Georgia, O’Connor went to Iowa for grad school, then spent a couple of years in New York and Connecticut, before returning to Georgia, where she spent her last 13 years.

It was in the North, then, that O’Connor came into being as a writer, and most of her earliest champions, Paul Engle, Sally and Robert Fitzgerald, Robert Lowell, etc., were Northerners, as was her publisher, Robert Giroux. Though rooted in the South, O’Connor was also orientated towards the North, with its mores, taste and, yes, attitudes towards race.

From that angle, the South has been little more than a stinking mudhole of white trash, so down the decades, we’re served with Deliverance, Easy Riders, Honey Boo Boo and, yes, also Flannery O’Connor. As great as she is, O’Connor contributes to that relentless calumny.

In 2020, there was an article by Paul Elie in The New Yorker, “How Racist Was Flannery O’Connor?”

I’d say pretty damn racist, against poor whites.

In 2021, the term “white trash” has been compacted to just “whites,” so it’s not just the South that is overrun with assorted Mr. Heads and Misfits, but pretty much the entire country, save for half of Manhattan, chunks of California and perhaps Seattle.

It is deplorable. That’s why the US must be rigorously reeducated and deformed, if not destroyed, for the benefit of all trash, of any color.

First they came for the white trash, and no one said nothing…

Linh Dinh’s latest book is Postcards from the End of America. He maintains a regularly updated photo blog.

 
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  1. To be fair to Flannery O’Conner, it’s easier to be tolerant of the vices of others than it is of those of your own people. It may merely have been a matter of Ms. O’Conner expecting more from her own people than she did from blacks.

    Notice the two blacks whose descriptions you quote: the ‘huge coffee colored man,’ and the maternally helpful negress. The one is described with cool objectivity while the other is positively praised. Had they been white, it’s possible the absurdity of the first would have been received greater emphasis and the motherliness of the second not seen as sufficient. Isn’t it a matter of O’Conner demanding more of whites than she does of blacks?

    …and isn’t that reasonable? After all, how much can we expect from blacks? Perhaps O’Conner’s tolerance is more racist than her condemnation.

  2. @Colin Wright

    Disagree. All of O’Connor’s work (of which I’ve read most) has the same theme. Remarkable that she was woke so very long ago. Obviously even back then it was a good career move. I didn’t know about her private racial views (thanks Linh) but they show her up as an absolute hypocrite.

  3. I remember reading some of her stuff in college. I also remember her main themes always created a sick feeling in me, kind of like the plays of Tennessee Williams did.

    • Replies: @Bert
  4. @Irish Savant

    ‘Disagree. All of O’Connor’s work (of which I’ve read most) has the same theme. Remarkable that she was woke so very long ago. Obviously even back then it was a good career move. I didn’t know about her private racial views (thanks Linh) but they show her up as an absolute hypocrite.’

    I certainly won’t adamantly disagree with you.

    However, it goes back further than you might think. Blacks were screeching for special consideration back at the outbreak of World War Two, and you can see allowances being made all the way back to the American Civil War.

    By the Nineteen Sixties…of course black ass had to be kissed. I’m just unconvinced as to O’Conner’s precise motives.

  5. Trinity says:

    O’Connor more than likely was “PERSUADED” a little bit by (((publishers))) on how to portray “white trash” and White Southerners. hehe. IF I am not mistaken, another Southern writer, John Grisham COMPLETELY REVERSED THE RACES IN HIS BOOK “BASED ON A TRUE STORY,” TITLED, “A TIME TO KILL.” Selling out for that (((NYT bestseller list.))) Good gawd, that is what I call, “white trash.” That guy with a pinch of Skoal, a Skoal ring on his back jean’s pocket, drinking a Natural Lite, well, chances are that guy never had sex with his sister or a preteen girl, but chances are some Manhattan businessman or Washington, D.C. politician has done one or the other or even both.

    The way (((Hollywood))) portrays the REEL South is comical. A good example is the remake of the movie, “Cape Fear.” Oh my, gawd, Robert Deniro had the most unrealistic and the worst version of a “Southern accent” in the history of mankind. By contrast, in a movie, titled “Runaway Train,” actor Jon Voight, is a prisoner in an Alaskan prison but for some strange reason he attempts to mimic the worst fake Brooklyn accent on earth. These two movies capture the title for worst fake accents of all time. Jewy comedian, Jerry Lewis, what an asshole in real life btw, once told the pilot to let him know when they are flying over Mississippi so he could use the toilet. Perhaps White Southerners are the equivalent of Ukrainians to the (((usual suspects.)))

    Anyhow, “A Good Man Is Hard To Find” for some reason always reminds me of a REAL life horror story that happened in Donalsonville, Georgia in 1973. No similarities at all except for violence and murder. In the REAL life murders in JawJuh, a group of convicts escaped from a minimum security prison in Maryland, shot a guy in Pennsylvania, went on a crime spree on their way to Florida for a few days. They decided to head back to Maryland and on their way stopped at a trailer in the rural Georgia southwestern town of Donalsonville, Georgia. There they butchered members of the Alday family. Carl Issacs, Wayne Coleman who was Isaacs half brother, along with Billy Isaacs and Wayne Coleman’s negro homosexual lover George Dungee committed perhaps one of the most brutal mass murders in the history of the state. Carl Isaac would sit on death row for 30 years before he was finally executed. You want to see the definition of “white trash?” Look at Carl Isaac. That last name sounds Jewish, but given the history of this guy and his family members who knows?

    Maybe Flannery never encountered Blacks like the ones who gang raped an 18 year old Carl Isaacs in a Maximum Maryland Penitentiary for 8 hours? When Flannery O’Connor lived in Georgia perhaps times were much different especially in a small town like Milledgeville. Nearby Macon is a shithole and the TNB on display there is special.

    Maybe do an article on the history of Phenix City, Alabama right across the river from Columbus, Georgia. They even made a movie about Phenix City titled, “The Phenix City Story. It had the most fake scene in movie history. Some goon kidnaps a little Black girl and throws an obvious “dummy” that is supposed to be the little Black girl out of a car. This was even more fake than the shark attack in that old Batman movie starring Adam West. Good ole Bats used shark repellent spray IF I remember right. lololol.

    • Replies: @HalconHigh
  6. Dumbo says:

    I agree with the first paragraph. Her stories are brilliant. Also, she gave a wonderful speech about writing for starting and wanna-be writers (I think it can be found online somewhere) that is excellent for anyone who wants or thinks he can write.

    I don’t know much about her personal life or her racist/non-racist views, except that she seamed to prefer peacocks to humans. Which doesn’t seem wholly unreasonable.

    In a way or another, we are all trash (black, white, yellow, whatever).

  7. …the South has been little more than a stinking mudhole of white trash, so down the decades, we’re served with Deliverance, Easy Riders, Honey Boo Boo and, yes, also Flannery O’Connor. As great as she is, O’Connor contributes to that relentless calumny.

    In 2020, there was an article by Paul Elie in The New Yorker, “How Racist Was Flannery O’Connor?”

    I’d say pretty damn racist, against poor whites.

    I must be telepathically connected to Linh Dinh. I’m about 70, maybe because we’re both dying. A month ago, I read Hemingway’s Macomber and a few days ago I started my first Flannery O’Connor, Wise Blood. I like the great quality of the writing and story telling. I resumed listening this morning as I did laps in the community pool. In chapter 5, as sluggard Enoch went to the zoo to see the animals he hated, it became clear: this O’Connor is a southern girl who got fame and money up north by portraying her friends and relatives as hateful zoo animals. She was (brilliantly) concocting the most grotesque stereotypes from bits and pieces of more normal lives.

    If she had written in a similarly nasty and exaggerated manner about Jews in Manhattan tenements, Sicilians in New Jersey slaughterhouses, or the destitute bog Irish in far south Chicago, she’d be dismissed by Manhattan publishers as a narrow-minded purveyor of vicious stereotypes. But she was able to get away with trashing the trash by appealing to residual Yankee supremacy and hatred of southern whites going back to the Civil War.

    I grew up in a place in the rural West that was one-third, let’s say, rednecks. They were different from the Yankees and we Swedes. A few were good childhood friends. Generally, I liked some things about rednecks and didn’t like others — I didn’t like the bad things they had in common with Sowell’s “Black Rednecks,” whom I later discovered in adult urban life. There are things I like about black rednecks as well, I must say. I never said what I didn’t like about my rednecks out loud, and would feel anger against snobs who spouted the most distorted and cartoonish slurs. I wondered why the New York cartoonist in the newspaper every day hated my friends and neighbors so much, made fun of them for being stupid, and acted so superior.
    http://d1466nnw0ex81e.cloudfront.net/n_iv/600/1031229.jpg

    I ended up here on Unz because I tried to do my best in life but couldn’t because I was exposed to cruel stereotypes!

    Most commenters here are from or are comfortably familiar with the red half of the country and its somewhere Americans. The ignorant and crude beliefs that the anywhere elites have for the somewheres is disgraceful, and does amount to vulgar and irrational prejudice. Not antiwhite racism, I think, but class and regional prejudice of the most foul sort – and, with complete lack of critical self-awareness, a prejudice celebrated rather than disdained.

    • Thanks: Iris, Bert
    • Replies: @Iris
    , @obwandiyag
    , @S
    , @Dkgfftjj
  8. unwoke says:

    “In “The Artificial Nigger,” a brainless rural white trash, ironically named Mr. Head, takes his grandson to Atlanta, to teach him an important lesson… To Mr. Head’s dismay, the boy, Wilson, was doggedly proud to have been born in Atlanta. An orphan, Wilson had spent his first six months there.”

    Did he change his name after that? After parsing the whole brief story beginning to end & end to beginning, can’t find any character named Wilson or even one mention of the name by Miss O’Connor. She always calls the kid Nelson. Where does this ‘Wilson’ name come from for this story; is it as imaginary as the “Nigger”?
    Anyway, Mr. Head is transformed by his day trip, as only a Catholic could, as O’Connor describes it at the end of this little parable: “He realized that he was forgiven for sins from the beginning of time, when he had conceived in his own heart the sin of Adam, until the present, when he had denied poor Nelson.” So if poor Nelson was denied his proper name too by some Wilson, guess we can forgive that also.

    • Replies: @Linh Dinh
  9. Depressing moralizing crap they foist on poor unsuspecting freshman comp students. Sucks more than Shirley Jackson’s The Lottery and that really sucks.

  10. Correcting my #7:

    • Replies: @advancedatheist
  11. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @unwoke

    Where does this ‘Wilson’ name come from for this story; is it as imaginary as the “Nigger”?

    In the article, I inadvertently use both “Wilson” and “Nelson,” so it’s clear I was confused. Though not quite 60, I can be precociously senile. It’s an honest mistake. There’s no need for you to sound so testy. It’s not like I was trying to deceive.

    Since my mistake causes needless confusion, I will ask Ron to change all instances of “Wilson” to “Nelson.” Let’s hope he will do so.

    • Thanks: Iris
    • Replies: @PJ London
  12. Trinity says:

    Anyone who has traveled or lived in several states can tell you that upstate New Yorkers are often just as “country” as some people in Georgia. I was amazed at when I would travel no more than maybe an hour and a half to two hours outside of NYC to places like Newburgh, Middletown, or Port Jervis, at how many honky tonk bars and guys dipping Copenhagen or Skoal I saw. I saw a barroom brawl break out in some dive that scared the living shit out of me. haha. This place was so low tech even for the Eighties that they had a record player playing, ” All My Rowdy Friends Are Coming Over Tonight,” by Hank Williams Jr. when the fight broke out. I mean you can’t make this shit up. Some big guy that looked like the late Bruiser Brody shouted, “come on” and there were not any takers. hehe. Cue: Gimme Three Steps by Lynyrd Skynyrd

    Had a roomie while stationed at Governors Island New York and honestly this guy was the most countrified person I ever ran into. He was from somewhere in Michigan, he would refer to Michigan as “God’s Country” and I was like, oh yeah, breh, I hear ya. smdh and lol. We picked up a couple of girls at the White Horse Tavern in Lower Manhattan and they remarked that they knew my friend was from out of town but they weren’t sure about my gypsy ass. hehe. Should have kept up with that Yankee broad, her parents had a place in the Hamptons but she was annoying as hell.

    Living in Florida you meet people from all over and some of the most country folks I ever met were from Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, those New England Puritan douchebags and hosers from Canada. Now granted, there are some real live ones here in JawJuh and Bama. I have a couple of neighbors that I have to warn when a deep freeze is coming so they can bring in the meth plants. hahaha. Only kidding, ya rummy.

  13. Franz says:

    “You know, I’m an integrationist by principle & a segregationist by taste anyway. I don’t like negroes. They all give me a pain and the more of them I see, the less and less I like them. Particularly the new kind.”

    From 1964? We get new kinds every few years, I guess.

    Flannery would have unutterably loathed our current era Whites — “the new kind.” She ripped into them then for certain traits that now dominate the schools, media, government and every corporate office with more than two cents to rub together.

    Walk out on a little kid? These people walked out on the future of their own people, and they started it way before ’64. But the misbegotten traitors did it silently and in the dark in Flannery’s time.

    • Agree: Traddles
    • Replies: @Traddles
  14. I think it should also be pointed out that O’Conner apparently lived in Georgia for all but six years of her life. Almost necessarily, she was going to write about Southerners, and white Southerners. She should have written about Yankees? Blacks?

    She wrote about what she knew. If she was acerbic — well, then, you’re going to get a critical view of Southern whites. One could criticize the motives of her admirers, but that would be a different matter.

    • Replies: @Bert
    , @phillip sawicki
  15. Maybe I was a bit naive in the late 70s at college reading both Flannery’s novels “Wise Blood” and “The Violent Bare it Away” (her only novels, plus I read “A Good Man is Hard to Find” and one or two other short stories), but I never considered her racist; yes she did excoriate “white trash” some and treated blacks much better in the novels, but still…. Compared to white-hating whites, social justice white hypocrites, and holier-than-thou white filthy rich celebs that believe they can tell us little white trash folks how to think… I actually think these white-hating whites, SJHs, and celebs owned by their handlers ARE THE WHITE TRASH! And long live the human race…to heck with identity politics!
    https://somethinghappeninghere.wordpress.com/2021/04/18/memo-to-all-activists-based-on-race-only-one-race-matters-the-human-race/

    • Agree: Iris
  16. @Trinity

    “We picked up a couple of girls at the White Horse Tavern in Lower Manhattan… Should have kept up with that Yankee broad, her parents had a place in the Hamptons but she was annoying as hell.”

    Preach it brother. Good times.

    • LOL: Trinity
  17. GenFranco says:

    I’ve never met a literate, educated liberal who did not love Flannery O’Connor. She may be anathema these days due to the woke Stasi calling her out for the word nigger, but she is beloved by the left (especially Yankees) for her portrayal of Southern Whites as murderous, superstitious rednecks. I’ve enjoyed her writing, but it’s always bothered me that she couldn’t find any redeemable White people in the South to populate her stories.

    The quote about being a segregationist by taste and not caring for the “new kind” of negro? Some of that should’ve ended up in her books. A Southern writer’s talent is wasted if her work doesn’t do something to defend the South.

  18. Richard B says:
    @Colin Wright

    To be fair to Flannery O’Conner, it’s easier to be tolerant of the vices of others than it is of those of your own people. It may merely have been a matter of Ms. O’Conner expecting more from her own people than she did from blacks.

    But that’s the whole point. Poor whites, working class whites, whites educated more by experience than books, etc. are not O’Connor’s people at all.

    The USA in general and whites in particular (the two used to be practically synonymous) could never bring themselves to talk seriously about the family and social class.

    These things just hit too close to home for too many people. So, they don’t just avoid them, they reject them. Instead, they talk about race.

    They reject the obvious and the concrete for something abstract. That’s why O’Connor, like so many today, not only side with blacks, but would rather be them than a poor white person. Exactly because she doesn’t have a relationship with blacks. But poor whites, though not her people, are her race. And that just hits too close to home.

    But, since the 19th century the white aristocracy has been replaced by the white middle class. And the aristocracy had one very good quality, noblese oblige, a sense of responsibility to their social subordinates. But the middle class, for hundreds and hundreds of years have always hated both the aristocracy and the poor.

    In fact, the middle class has always been the insecure social class. And that insecurity comes out in the need of the middle class to relentlessly and cruelly scapegoat poor whites.

    But it looks like history has a joker up its sleeve and those of the white middle class are about to get what’s coming to them, a taste of their own medicine.

  19. Anonymous[194] • Disclaimer says:

    down the decades, we’re served with Deliverance, Easy Riders, Honey Boo Boo and, yes, also Flannery O’Connor

    Don’t forget Erskine Caldwell and the poor white trash of Tobacco Road! First the novel, then the long-running stage play and then the movie.

    Poor whites, especially southern ones, have always been fair game for the elites to slander and revile. I think it has been so that the wealthy could conscience-free exploit their labor and loot the natural resources, especially timber and coal, without compunction. And why, when the wealthy found sources of even cheaper labor overseas, they abandoned them with a sneer.

    There’s a pretty good movie about the time the West Virginia miners had enough, Matewan. It dramatizes the events around the largest armed uprising in America since the Civil War, remembered as The Battle of Blair Mountain. I imagine Flannery O’Connor considered these hicks who resisted the federal government nothing but white trash.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @S
    , @Alden
  20. Liza says:
    @Colin Wright

    Lupus in its later stages is quite often accompanied by psychological and psychiatric disorders, including a version of bipolar. Maybe in her case, not the usual kind of up & down phases, but rather the holding of contradictory opinions simultaneously. FWIW. I don’t know. But there is something creepy about her writing. She is the literary version of Diane Arbus’ photos and maybe Arbus herself.

    • Replies: @Biff
  21. HalconHigh says: • Website
    @Trinity

    That scene in the original “Batman” was freaking hilarious.

    • Replies: @Trinity
  22. Biff says:
    @Liza

    Lupus in its later stages is quite often accompanied by psychological and psychiatric disorders,

    I watched my sister-in-law slowly get tortured and massacred by the horrific lupus disease. I’ve never witnessed that kind of suffering anywhere or anytime since. In her case it attacked her stomach lining and it produced blood clot vomiting that would scare off a Satanic movie set and put the producer in a psychiatric ward. Truly horrific! It happened here in Thailand where you can have your hospital Bill reduced if you pick-up some of the nursing activities – feeding/caring/cleaning up the blood clot puke. Being poor at the time that’s what we did. I walked away a changed man.

    It(your own immune system) can also attack the lining around your brain and this condition will lead to the psychiatric disorders.

    Lupus – a genetic disorder that kills in the worst kind of way.

    • Replies: @anon
    , @stevennonemaker88
  23. dimples says:

    I find it somewhat of a relief that Mr Dinh is holed up somewhere recovering from Covid and setting his pen to literary criticism. It’s too intellectual for my simple mind to understand but nevertheless far better than his usual reports on the 3rd-world dog stew with vegetables he is usually eating and the comings and goings of the colorful locals. I suppose it won’t last but we should be grateful while it does.

    • Replies: @Rev. Spooner
    , @Alden
  24. HalconHigh says: • Website

    A few years ago, I walked into the local bar on an early Saturday afternoon to catch some college football and down some adult beverages.

    The place was surprisingly crowded. There had been a funeral that morning for one of the locals and they had all gone to the bar afterwards.

    There was only one seat at the bar, right next to the only Black guy at the bar.
    I sidled in and ordered a beer.

    Not 5 minutes later, a booming voice from a White guy at the other side of the bar was directed at the Black guy next to me…”Hey Joe…you’re my favorite (insert N word)”.

    An audible gasp went up from the women at the bar.
    I thought I had just walked into a bad episode of The Twilight Zone.

    Finally, the Black guy looks up and says “It’s not pronounced (insert N word), its pronounced nigra”

    At this point, the veteran female bartender who looked like was straight out of central casting said in an authoritative voice ” OK…That’s Enough”

    Indeed

    Interestingly, the only “true progressive” allowed on American TV is a Black man….Cornel West.

    They are deathly afraid of Chris Hedges and journalists like Max Blumenthal, Matt Taibbi & Aaron Mate are strictly verboten.

    Black comedian Larry Wilmore & his CIA spook buddy, Malcolm Nance can lecture Bill Maher (who’s become a joke) about him using the N word.

    No one said a word though when Wilmore had Jay Leno on his show even though Leno was the central character in the rehabilitation of the mass murdering War Criminal George W Bush.

    MLK’s “Beyond Vietnam” speech is no longer played, but you will see Don Lemon cozying up to Rick Snyder, who poisoned Black children in Michigan.

    Linh….Derek Chauvin trial has concluded…..if he’s not handed a stiff sentence, all Hell’s gonna break loose.

  25. @Colin Wright

    It may be unfair, who really knows but from her picture above, I can certainly see her with green hair and tats if she lived today and supporting the worst things the democrats stand for. Sure, not all females with green hair and tats, etc. are hopelessly lost from leftist brainwashing but it seems most of those I’ve met are.

  26. @Richard B

    Brilliant post, especially your diagnosis of the American middle class, both now and in the past, which I believe is spot on. Also, I never cease to be amazed at the attitude of middle class whites who watch and laugh at TV shows produced by communists like Norman Lear, like All In the Family and think that Norman Lear was writing about whites other than them. You can’t get more deluded.

    • Agree: Wade Hampton
  27. Stogumber says:

    All that leads to a more abstract reflexion:
    Negative stereotypes are first worked out in real advanced books by real clever and crafty authors who detected a bad side in a certain part of mankind where nobody had looked before.
    The same happened with negative stereotypes about blacks.
    Of course, to be precise, the negative image became “stereotyped” only after those books (and by them). And happily, it dries out – because the first-detection success of the first detectors cannot be repeated.
    O’Connor was the last one in a line of authors, but she was able to detect some small new angle about the depravity of poor whites. Thereafter nobody was able to trump her. That is something we can be glad about.

  28. PJ London says:
    @Irish Savant

    She was not a hypocrite, nor was she pandering to the populous, she was a writer, writing fiction, not documentaries.
    The only standard by which she should be measured is “Were her stories well written? Were they entertaining?”
    If she stood in a pulpit or for political position, then she may be judged by other criteria, but as a writer her other activities are irrelevant.

  29. PJ London says:
    @Linh Dinh

    I had several schoolteachers like that. When they could not dispute the content they marked on my handwriting (never the best) or punctuation.
    That way they never had to say, excellent or well done, but could feel superior by saying “Could do better”.
    Forget them, it is not worth your time or energy.

    “It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly. Who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotion; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat.”
    U.S. President Teddy Roosevelt

    You are contributing to understanding and the education of old farts like me, so thanks.

    • Replies: @Iris
  30. Emslander says:

    I’m not sure what point Linh is trying to make with this O’Conner stuff, but the comments may be the natural consequence and, therefore, the intent. It’s depressingly obvious that just about every commentator on this thread is scrambling to tell stories or draw morals that differentiate themselves from either the blacks or the whites represented in the stories. This would not be the case in the America I grew up in. My parents and grandparents would have been insulted by any such representation of their fellow human beings. I guess we were white trash.

    Sad.

    • Agree: Sollipsist
  31. O’Connor was a jewess. Mother geborn Cline, from Savannah. Check out her photos from unflattering angles. The nose knows.

    • Thanks: Hans, Pheasant
  32. anonymous[202] • Disclaimer says:

    Willa Cather’s ‘Death Comes For the Archbishop’ is a far greater piece of writing, both in scope and wisdom, than O’Connor’s nihilism. If you’ve never read it, highly recommended and potentially transformative (in the good way).

    • Thanks: New Dealer
    • Replies: @Dumbo
  33. A couple of things…

    1. Culturally, America has always suffered from a schizophrenia between the English tradition from which we spring (monarchy, aristocracy, stratified class society) and the egalitarian, Democratic political philosophy officially celebrated in our politics, philosophy and propaganda. Many Americans, particularly in the South, particularly among women, cherished the pretension that they were descended from old aristocracy, landed gentry, Blue Bloods, etc. the worst insult imaginable would be to prick that pretension and reveal thems to be white trash, redneck, hick–a member of the peasantry. This tradition is still going strong today. Good whites versus bad whites.

    2. #1 is 10X amped up in the SouthLand.

    3. In southern literature, you can see the aristocrat versus white trash theme in nearly every single author from the start to the present. FOC was neither the first nor the last. Faulkner had his Snopes (bad white) and his Lucius Beauchamp (noble Negro) but there were plenty of others like Carson McCullers, Erskine Caldwell, and most egregious: Harper Lee.

    4. Artistic intention matters. Carson McCullers, Caldwell and Lee primarily were trying to make a buck by selling salacious southern stories to a northern market that wanted nothing more than tales of freaks and southern poor white depravity (those dead confederates had it coming!). FOC focused instead on making a theological point. I think it’s her biggest artistic limitation in that she was altogether too focused on being Roman Catholic. As a result, every story is the same only varying in the details. The protagonist suffers violence that enables them to experience the grace of God. No matter how well written, having read one FOC short story, you have in a sense read them all.

    5. Her Catholicism leads her portrayal of all characters as sinners in need of grace. Blacks are essentially supporting characters in the stories but never do I see the same level of authorial forced sympathy/empathy that one sees in Faulkner, Eudora Welty, Harper Lee etc.

    6. While I enjoy all of these essays, particularly these new lit crit ones, I don’t agree with the conclusion that FOC was racist against poor whites. It’s a meaningless criticism in the context of her works and artistic intent. If one were to make the same accusation against Harper Lee or James Dickey, I would agree wholeheartedly.

  34. republic says:

    The New Yorker article of June 22,2020,”How racist was Flannery O’Connor?” got herself “cancelled,” her name was removed from
    a campus building at Loyola university.

  35. Trinity says:
    @HalconHigh

    hahaha. How about when the Caped Crusader tried to get rid of that bomb and a group of ducks were swimming in the lake? No way was Batman going to drop that bomb on those ducks. lolol.

  36. Trinity says:

    The scene with poor Ned Beatty in “Deliverance” is about as unrealistic as it gets. Sure, back in the day you might run up on a couple of Mountain boys named Cooter and Booger and their moonshine operation. Check out some of the late Popcorn Sutton videos on YT if they are still available btw. Anyhow IF you were to happen upon Cooter and Booger’s still, you were not about to take an anal probe and be told to squeal like a pig. Your chances of being told to bend over and grab your shoe laces with your teeth while Booger drives you home are 100 million to one. NO good ole Mountain hillbilly is going to be attempting an act like that. That kind of behavior pattern is more common to the negro, observe my TRUE STORY about Carl Isaacs in prison or the YT videos of Fleece Johnson aka The Booty Warrior.

    Hollywood also falsely accuses people of The Bible Belt with engaging in incest. As stated above, Jews in Hollywood, NYC, and the Middle East engage in incest far more than Southern Whites whether in be in the past or present. Incest is also far more common in not only the Middle East whether Arab or Jew, but far more common in Latin America, and certainly in Africa. Far more common in the African American community as well. Didn’t Oprah Winfrey say she was molested by an uncle or something? Back to squealing like a pig and poor Ned Beatty? Hell, you would more than likely face that fate at the hands of multiple Hollywood producers and directors during an interview than suffering that fate after running up on Booger’s fine Wine and Spirits operation.

    Only the Germans, and Russian people have been portrayed more falsely and unfairly by Jewish publishing companies and Hollywood than White Southerners. Be interesting for a White Southerner to make a movie about a bunch of backward Orthodox Jews waving chickens over their head in Brooklyn. Hmm, at least with some of those rattlesnake handling Southern Christians that was a demonstration of courage and faith and not torturing some harmless chicken. Both are crazy, but one demonstrates faith and one demonstrates cruelty. What if a White Southerner mocked a Jewish couple having sex with a hole in the sheet? hahaha. Sure, it probably isn’t true but neither is the shit you see about White Southerners on the movie screen, the television screen or read in books.

    • Agree: Polistra
    • Thanks: Hans, The Anti-Gnostic
    • Replies: @Mefobills
  37. anonymous[202] • Disclaimer says:

    14 years in NYC taught me who the most racist people in the world are. Except they don’t use the ‘n’ word, just the ‘s’ word.

    • LOL: Angharad
  38. Never been a big fan, but having been raised Irish Catholic and then overeducated, I’m generally turned off by other overeducated Irish Catholics. Perhaps it’s just a matter of familiarity breeding contempt.

    Much of it just comes down to the perverse urge to indulge, exaggerate and invent sins to confess to the priest. Seeking validation through embellished, conspicuous abasement can produce a great work in the right hands — O’Connor is far more skilled at her misery porn than, say, Frank McCourt. As with many talented Jewish writers, there’s plenty of value if you can get past the basic pathetic demonstrative neurosis.

  39. Dumbo says:
    @anonymous

    O’Connor is certainly not “nihilist”.
    In fact, I can’t think of any writer to which that adjective applies less.

  40. Dumbo says:
    @Dead Hipster Society

    Oh, come on now. Are you of the “Hitler and everyone else was a Jew” school?

    Cline was the surname of her mother’s husband, and does not sound Jewish at all.

    In fact her mother doesn’t look at all Jewish:

    http://andalusiafarm.blogspot.com/2016/12/a-widows-dower.html

    • Thanks: nosquat loquat
    • Replies: @profnasty
    , @profnasty
  41. Hans says:

    Thanks, Linh! Good one.

  42. Mr. Ed says:

    I’m a fan of O’Connor and have even read a biography–cannot remember the title or the author. In the bio, she told a visiting black writer that she could not invite him to dinner, as she had to respect the customs of her neighbors. She said that if she had been in New York, she would have had no problem inviting him.

  43. @HalconHigh

    About Max Blumenthal, I suggest you should be wary:

    THE MISADVENTURES OF SLAPSY MAXIE BLUMENTHAL
    https://pixcayanmacuahuitl.medium.com/slapsy-maxies-misadventure-23a60a4eaa47

    About George Floyd and Derek Chauvin, Ron Unz, both the MSM and the Alternative Media never bother to investigate (intentionally ignore?) the detail that both Floyd and Chauvin are security guards for a club.

    The leak video did not even prove that Floyd was killed by drug, he was very sane, not in drug affect, during that time, and he just went full ‘the boy who cried wolf’ on ‘I can’t breath’.

    In fact, some people suspected that Derek Chauvin INTENTIONALLY killed George Floyd because Floyd know too much about Police Drug Smuggle.

    Silenced Truths on George Floyd’s Murder, the Untruth Media Complex, and China’s Terror Capitalism

    • LOL: Trinity
    • Replies: @HalconHigh
    , @Badger Down
  44. I’m a fan of O’Connor’s, but she is best consumed in small quantities. T.S. Eliot once said of O’Connor, “She has certainly an uncanny talent of high order but my nerves are just not strong enough to take much of a disturbance”.

    • LOL: nosquat loquat
  45. This is a ridiculous criticism of an author of fiction and her brilliant work. I can’t even discern the point of this critical opinion piece. Linh Dinh seems unable to see the forest from the trees and the spiritual from literal. As in the words of Flannery O’Connor; “Your criticism sounds to me as if you have read too many critical books and are too smart in an artificial, destructive, and very limited way.”

    • Agree: Dumbo
    • Replies: @Dumbo
    , @Mike Tre
  46. @dimples

    I totally disagree with you and I don’t understand why you like his literary criticism even though you claim to be ” \too intellectual for my simple mind to understand “. If you need new hobbies , may I suggest Skip diving and slum exploration?

    • Replies: @durd
  47. @Dead Hipster Society

    The great Patsy’s first husband (she kept the name) was from Frederick, Maryland.
    A hive of echt Deutsch from pre-Revolutionary days. Might even be named after the Prussian Monarch.
    I can’t see semiliterate Anglo backwoods settlers bothering to find out how it was spelled, just wrote down (or got somebody else to write down) how it sounded in English.
    Not necessarily jewish, more likely the ordinary German surname for “Little”.

  48. Dumbo says:
    @Harry Harlow looks for love

    Flannery O’Connor’s stories are not to be taken literally as representations of “real life in the South”, so Linh here is in the wrong track.

    O’Connor’s work is more allegorical (in some cases verging on the grotesque) than realistic. Also, the idea that she’s “racist against white trash”, or even against blacks, is ridiculous. Also he seems to completely miss the humour/irony in the he quote from “Revelation”, which is a satire of the type of woman represented by Mr. Turpin, not an attack on “white trash” (we are certainly not supposed to identify with Ms. Turpin or see her as a model of anything). Also, a lot of her stories have a religious meaning, it’s not “social realism”.

    Plus, there is a long tradition of Southern gothic / grotesque, including Faulkner (i.e. “The Sound and the Fury”) which “Deliverance” is also part of (but a bit more caricatural), so this is not simply “racism” or prejudice against “white trash”, but part of a tradition.

    That said, there is of course a stereotyping of Southerners in the U.S. by the media (which is a pity, I’ve been to the South and in general people tend to be very nice and kind, much more than Yankees), but I wouldn’t include Mrs. O’Connor here. She’s doing something else.

    • Thanks: Iris
  49. Iris says:
    @Dumbo

    This is a lovely comment.

  50. Iris says:
    @New Dealer

    I wondered why the New York cartoonist in the newspaper every day hated my friends and neighbors so much, made fun of them for being stupid, and acted so superior.

    That’s because the bully’s psychology is such that he ultimately feels very small, insignificant , miniscule inside, and needs to belittle and humiliate others on the basis of an imaginary inferiority sp he can at last feel better about himself.

    People who despise others on the basis of social class-belonging are insecure and deluded windbags.

    • Replies: @New Dealer
  51. ricpic says:

    I don’t think Linh Dinh makes a single reference to O’Connor’s Catholicism. This is astounding, because she is, almost to the exclusion of anything else, a religious writer with a specifically Catholic view of the world. It’s not that her poor whites or blacks are particularly bad examples of humanity, it’s that here, in this world, humanity can hardly be better than they are. Here, this world, belongs to the Devil. All her visions, because that’s what her stories actually are, are visions of Hell. This world is hell, sans mercy. That’s why her towns are acrid, dry. That’s why her human “saviors” are merciless devils. That’s what she describes over and over again: a pitiless realm where the Devil rules.

    Is there hope? Yes, but not here.

    It is very grim and probably incomprehensible to non-Catholics. Of which I am one.

    • Agree: GomezAdddams
    • Replies: @UR2
  52. baythoven says:
    @Basil Ransom

    Excellent comment and a welcome counterpoint to some of the notions in this thread.

    Blacks are always peripheral in O’Connor’s stories. I don’t think she was much interested in them. To the degree they are presented I think they are as much ignorant and lazy as “dignified and likable.”

    Your comment about the aristocratic attitude is interesting. Any upper class, or even any wealth, is completely absent in O’Connor’s rural Southern milieu. Still, she does often target that sort of attitude. Two recurring character types come to mind: 1) the middle-aged lady who is proud of her upbringing, family, manners, etc. This type receives on balance, I think, as much sympathy as mockery. 2) the college-educated (from up north?) character, usually young and single, who feels him or herself superior to the rubes around him. This type always receives a deserved comeuppance.

    I cannot in any way see Flannery O’Connor as a prototype of today’s “Wokeism” as a few commenters here suggest. Even for her time, I think she was more conservative than progressive, particularly for a writer. To illustrate, one of her stories, The Lame Shall Enter First, deals with a father who is committed to helping the underprivileged, and so takes in a teenage juvenile delinquent for foster care even though he has a younger child of his own to whose plight — his mother is dead — he is insensitive. He likes how the teen is smart whereas his boy seems dull-witted. When his boy stuffs himself with too much food and then vomits, he views this as greediness. He’ll probably be a banker, he thinks in disgust. Meanwhile the teen’s wicked impulses are overlooked. I could go on, but you get the drift.

    • Agree: Traddles
  53. baythoven says:
    @Dumbo

    In a way or another, we are all trash (black, white, yellow, whatever).

    Flannery O’Connor would nod her head to that.

  54. G. Poulin says:

    Scalawag : A Southerner who constantly sucks up to the Yankee, hoping for a pat on the head and a piece of the spoils. Harper Lee comes to mind, while a case could be made that O’Connor was just a more talented version of the same. My Catholic friends are all wild for Flannery, but I’ve never been able to catch more than a whiff of Catholicism in her writings. Seems more like some kind of high-church Calvinist to me. You know, the “total depravity/all is grace” routine.

  55. @PJ London

    So one can’t be both a writer and a hypocrite? Never knew that.

    • Replies: @PJ London
  56. Anonymous[119] • Disclaimer says:
    @Dr. Charles Fhandrich

    Oh Lord not another one who thinks there is a commie in under everyone’s bed with a couple more hiding out in the closet not to mention those commies hiding in the bushes just outside the door. When you think all the commie haters are on board another one jumps up to prove your a liar but then again I suppose it leaves some others a little peace ..but don’t bet on it…

  57. Trinity says:

    I really don’t know if Flannery was guilty of sucking up to the Yankee or Jew publishing companies, one has to remember that she grew up in a much different America, and certainly a much different Southern America. Were her parents upper middle class or even middle class Southerners? And Milledgeville is a small town and back then it had to be even smaller. I do know that even Whites with a little money in the South thumb their noses down on poor or working class Whites even today, back then even more so. My mother grew up in Cuthbert, Georgia and has versed me on life back in the day in small town Georgia. Cuthbert, Georgia’s claim to fame is being the birth place of Larry Holmes and Rosey Grier for whatever that is worth.

    Anyhow long ago poor Whites were just a step above Blacks in the Deep South, particularly the small towns in the South. There was a Jew with the last name of Bergen who owned a lumberyard in Cuthbert, Ga,( damn these shysters are everywhere and yet they only make up 2% of the population, bullshit) about the only job to work beyond a working in a small store or driving a truck. He worked poor Whites and even poorer Blacks like dogs for next to nothing. Real piece of work. So much for the Jew being for the downtrodden Black man or poor in general. haha. What a joke that one is. Poor Whites and Blacks actually got along pretty well for the most part, maybe because both were treated like shit. I was wondering IF Flannery’s family were better off than most, and maybe this explains her attitude towards poor White Southerners because that kind of thing was real back then and even exists to this day in the South.

    Look at the city of Atlanta. Atlanta is one of the most pretentious cities in America. They are almost embarrassed to be considered a Southern city and do their best to ignore their Southern roots and embrace Yankee horseshit in their effort to become a “global city.” I have no idea what O’Connor really felt one way or another but I do enjoy your stories and at least she was not as big of a tool as Harper Lee or John Grisham even IF she looked down on poor Southerners. Personally, I don’t really see anything that much offensive in her work, but Grisham’s LYING and Harper Lee’s ridiculous horsehit fairy tale drip with SELLOUT. I have bought O’Connor’s work, while I would NEVER buy anything written by Grisham or Lee, even though we HAD to read that anti-White fairy tale, “To Kill A Mockingbird” in junior high school.

  58. @Iris

    Up through the 1950s, ethnic caricatures were common in American public culture. Some of it was vicious and domineering, some reflected the mutual ethnic teasing that was once practiced in mixed ethnic settings, a bit was affectionate.

    Do a web search on “American ethnic caricature” and you will find hectic criticism of the portrayal of every American ethnic group (of minstrelsy, sports teams named after Amerinds, of a few portrayals by Dr. Seuss of Chinamen, etc.) save one: poor whites. Much of America read the Lil Abner comic every day for 43 years. Its like has not been criticized and retrospectively condemned.

    Li’l Abner is a satirical American comic strip that appeared in many newspapers in the United States, Canada and Europe, featuring a fictional clan of hillbillies in the impoverished mountain village of Dogpatch, USA. Written and drawn by Al Capp (1909–1979), the strip ran for 43 years, from August 13, 1934, through November 13, 1977….

    Comic strips typically dealt with northern urban experiences before Capp introduced Li’l Abner, the first strip based in the South. The comic strip had 60 million readers in over 900 American newspapers and 100 foreign papers in 28 countries. Capp “had a profound influence on the way the world viewed the American South.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li%27l_Abner

    Al Capp created the national stereotype of hinterland and poor whites for consumption by urban dwellers and for first and second generations of the Central, Eastern, and Southern European immigrants to the big cities. I don’t want to stir up anti-Semitic ranting, and so I will carefully state that Al Capp in New York was Jewish. His portrayal of hinterland Americans seems to derive from the supremacist strand of Jewish culture. For example, inferior humans breed promiscuously and live like hogs, literally with hogs.

    It’s not a Jewish plot, though. Al Capp did not take on all American gentiles! Rather, he mocked poor whites in the region that lost the Civil War. Capp’s derision ingratiated him to the elite Yankee ruling class and integrated third-wave immigrants with Yankees in contempt for hinterland Americans. The poor condition of Southern blacks was partly the product of a tiny plantation class and its Yankee financiers, partly the product of a Yankee reparations regime that impoverished the southern region, and partly due to other factors. During the drama of the civil rights revolution, Yankee bankers, southern plantationists, and northern immigrants were erased from causal consideration. It was Capp’s Dogpatch denizens who were and are responsible for the oppression of blacks. You can witness that in just about any American movie or television episode on race you can call up to memory. And because of Dogpatch and its more genteel offspring, much of the world now views rural American whites in this manner.

    Capp was lowbrow and had main force on the masses. His vulgar stereotype was fed daily into the cultural mills of Manhattan and New York. Erskine Caldwell, James Dickey, Harper Lee, Flannery O’Connor and the like were highbrow: a minstrelsy that legitimated the one delicious bigotry allowed to Yankee-integrated intellectuals.

    This line of thought just occurred to me, and I offer it because it might be a better way of looking at things than the idea of antiwhite racism, which runs up against the problem of white anti-white racists. The idea resolves that problem with an epicycle: the distinction between goodwhites and badwhites. But looked at in its historical development, it’s always been the goodwhites coopting the fringes and scapegoating the badwhite Lil Abners for the problems created by Yankee-integrated oligarchy. Also, this formulation resolves the puzzle of woke capitalism. An element of it has been there all along, and now is more naked than concealed.

    More than one thing got us to where we are today. One was the relentless, almost mechanical expansion of the civil rights bureaucracy. Another was the fusion of postmodernism and critical theory into ethnocommunism. But Dogpatch, I suggest, is an unnoticed third.

    • Thanks: Linh Dinh, Iris, sayless
    • Replies: @utu
    , @Emslander
  59. @Dumbo

    I agree. And as O’Connor explained; “The stories are hard but they are hard because there is nothing harder or less sentimental than Christian realism…. when I see these stories described as horror stories I am always amused because the reviewer always has hold of the wrong horror.”

    I’d add Cormac McCarthy’s first 4 excellent books, before he moved to Texas, to the same Souther gothic genre.

    Stereotyping of the South began during the civil war and went full-bore at wars end, through the brutalities of the “reconstruction” (which most Americans have zero knowledge about) and continues to this day. The smear propagandists did to the south as they later did to Adolph Hitler and the National Socialist Party. Lies and fictitious narratives that are hopelessly ingrained into the general public’s perceptions.

    • Agree: Alden
  60. @Anonymous

    ‘Don’t forget Erskine Caldwell and the poor white trash of Tobacco Road! First the novel, then the long-running stage play and then the movie…’

    The thing about Tobacco Road is that it’s not even intended as serious literature.

    As the author himself pointed out, he wrote it in reaction to the rather overblown claims of a school of Southern historians/sociologists who professed to see remarkable virtue in the Southern white rural proletariat. That it was taken to be a serious portrayal of the South reflects on the audience more than the author.

    • Replies: @Bert
  61. @New Dealer

    My mother was born in the Ozarks near a creek called Dog Branch. When she told me about that, I thought it was hilarious.

  62. @New Dealer

    Most of America, including redneck America, loved the Beverly Hillbillies. They loved having themselves portrayed on TV. It was better than watching suburban fathers having trouble with the help or browbeating their trouble-prone sons.

    An interesting sidelight: CBS cancelled (speaking of cancelled) the Beverly Hillbillies at the same time as it was number one in the ratings and had been for quite a while. Why cancel a number one show? Sounds counter-intuitive, don’t it? Well, a CBS executive explained it succinctly, “We didn’t want to be known as the hillbilly network.”

    What I think is instructive about this tale is that we are always told that the reason TV is crap is just because they’re giving us what we want. You know, capitalism at its finest, we demand crap and they supply it.

    And yet, when they actually do have some crap that we really like, and that is moreover earning them beaucoups big capitalist bucks, they yank it off–in other words, taking away what we want (and simultaneously cutting off themselves from a nice lucrative little revenue stream), the opposite of giving us what we want.

    So next time they tell you they’re only giving us what we want, you look ’em straight in the eye and tell the sad tragedy of the Beverly Hillbillies. And then tell them, “No, you don’t give us what we want, you fucking liars. You stuff down our throats what you want to stuff down our throats. Even if we hate it. Even if it loses you money.”

    • Thanks: Linh Dinh, Bert
    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  63. utu says:
    @New Dealer

    Wiki tells us that Al Capp had some first hand experience and he based the cast of characters “on the authentic mountain-dwellers he met while hitchhiking through rural West Virginia and the Cumberland Valley as a teenager. This was years before the Tennessee Valley Authority Act brought basic utilities such as electricity and running water to the region.” Later FDR administration provided grants for educated liberal arts graduates (many Jews, btw) to scout rural and backward areas for ethnographic collections. Probably then many city born Americans discovered the degree of poverty, neglect and ignorance that they could not imagine, though for the first generation immigrants from Europe including the Jewish shtetls the poverty they saw would not be unfamiliar.

    How different is it from Joe Bageant’s and his epigone Linh Dinh’s portrayals of derelicts that they fished for in the dive bars? And I do not think that Linh Dinh goes to the dive bars primarily for the ethnographic research. The issue is the level of empathy and sympathy you apply when using the collected material. While I have some idea where the hearts of Bageant and Dinh are I do not know about Al Capp and to what extend he was exploitative.

    • Replies: @republic
  64. anon[138] • Disclaimer says:
    @Biff

    Lupus – a genetic disorder that kills in the worst kind of way.

    apparently eating alfalfa sprouts can cause Lupus, believe it or not

  65. Hibernian says:
    @G. Poulin

    All is grace. It’s quite possible to utterly reject predestination and still very strongly believe in Original Sin.

    • Replies: @G. Poulin
  66. @Dr. Charles Fhandrich

    He was mocking working class Gentiles.

    • Replies: @Dr. Charles Fhandrich
  67. One-off says:

    This is both timely and beautiful, Linh. Your poetic essays usually have a trenchant climax but this one is quite foreboding. Is the momentum toward genocide too great to stop? Probably.

    I knew Flannery O’Connor vicariously through one of her contemporaries, Southern Agrarian author Andrew Lytle, who was far more talented and far less known because he spoke aloud the whispered parts. His novels had a brief resurgence shortly before his death but the same forces that originally hindered him re-emerged to stifle the momentum. Lytle said a fellow Southerner at the NYT throttled his best novel in the Review of Books because it was insufficiently critical of their regional kin. The reviewer was Jewish, of course, and this was more than 70 years ago.

    O’Connor, Lytle said, knew how to censor herself enough to thrive. In her remarkable EVERYTHING THAT RISES MUST CONVERGE, the proper middle class White lady dies from forcing herself to stifles her thoughts until she has a fatal stroke. I thought of what Lytle told me about O’Connor many years afterwards when I re-read the short story. The mother is O’Connor rather than the gestating Social Justice Warrior son. The unexpressed disgust in the story also was directed toward blacks rather than White trash. How tinely, how long ago

    To hazard a guess, both Lytle and O’Connor shared a dismal view of White trash although he did not share that aspect with me because the stereotype probably fit me and he was a gracious man.

    In fairness to O’Connor, her stories are more religious allegories in the Catholic tradition than social criticism. She wrote of fallen people in a fallen world, and O’Connor knew who the Jewish publishing industry expected her to cast as slouching toward depravity. O’Connor still had the last laugh when Jews published blatantly Christian themes as a way to lampoon the undermensh goyim.

    Do those who now do the same as O’Connor realize they, too, are cast into the same pit since the cancer has been redefined to include all Whites? How could they not? And are they delusional enough to think they will not come for them, or masochistic enough to want them to do so? It’s rather obviously the latter.

    Again, thanks for the tragic column and for inadvertently bringing back some oddly timely memories.

    • Thanks: utu
    • Replies: @baythoven
  68. Flannery O’Connor is generally misinterpreted as a black (nihilistic) humorist by college sophomores. The truth is, she’s Super Catholic ala Frank O’ Connor though he obviously loves his characters while she fears for their souls and laments their downfall. In Miss O’ Connor’s view man is given every opportunity for salvation, but at every juncture he shamefully turns away. I have to say I agree unreservedly. Most people have no conception of the White Christian Southern ethic, one tenet of which is that making money is morally wrong, harmful to one’s character and dangerous for one’s soul. Flannery’s message to the infidel intellectuals comes from her shyster Bible salesman to her bitter philosophy PhD in Good Country People, “ You think you’re so smart. I been believing in nothin ever since I was born!”

    • Replies: @Drmike
  69. Thank you. I want to clarify that I’m not fussing about offended feelings but rather am trying to understand the sources of today’s “anti-whiteness.”

    Solzhenitsyn said the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being, and I would add, every place, and every people. I’ve spent time in some of the poorest countries on earth. Often what seems to be squalor vanishes when you talk to people enough to get inside of their lives – sure there are some bad people and some bad happenings, maybe more than where I come from, but still they are exceptions not the rule. The squalor doesn’t vanish if one assumes he is a better human than they are and fails to ask into their world. Al Capp, I think, assumed he was the better human.

    A Lil Abner comic done by an insider with talent equal to Al Capp’s would be less suspect, even if all content was identical. It would not be someone on high picking on people down low. However, I think even a biting satire done by an equally talented insider would portray foibles with greater affection. Linh Dinh’s barfly satire can bite but is affectionate. Same for Joe Baegant, whom I loved.

    I can’t definitively support my evaluation of Al Capp but look at the image I inserted! Enticing Moonbeam McSwine was a pipe-sucking slatternly slut literally living in a pig sty. Created by a rich man in New York from an ethnic tradition for whom the pig and the loathsome shiksa are forbidden. Traditionally, through most of the world, isn’t calling the women of another ethnic group filthy whores an insult of some consequence?

    • Thanks: Iris
  70. Tom says:

    Thanks, Linh Dinh, for another great piece (about writers). I had naively assumed that real writers had integrity. To the degree that they want to make a good living at it, they bend over backward to shamelessly kiss their own asses. While integrity doesn’t pay the rent, prostitution usually does. A remarkable characteristic of the publishing world. The upshot is that Ms. O’Conner has done her part in helping to shape the Anti-White neo-Kristallnacht heading our way. Her acts of moral contortion
    not only should be excused by the “leaders of the black community”, but her contributions to “the cause” should be recognized by that self-righteous group of ideological pimps and race hustlers
    as an example of outstanding achievement.

  71. PJ London says:
    @Irish Savant

    Of course one can, and I never implied that she was not a hypocrite.
    What I said was that one can not judge a writers fiction as being a statement of their point of view.
    A homosexual pacifist can write gory war stories eulogising hetro masculinity. That does not make them a hypocrite, merely a fiction writer.
    Every advertising copywriter is a hypocrite, but no believes that the adverts that they create represent their honest opinion.
    Every doctor on the planet is a hypocrite, prescribing stuff for you that they would never take themselves.
    Every dentist knows that fluoride damages teeth yet urges you to brush with flouride toothpaste. Why wouldn’t they, more business for them.
    Please don’t set up strawmen and think that others will fall for your strategy.

  72. Bert says:
    @Dr. Charles Fhandrich

    I took a creative writing course while enrolled at a Deep South college and was taught the greatness of O’Connor. The professor mimicked her grotesquerie in his own writing——and never amounted to a hill of beans as a writer.

  73. Bert says:
    @Colin Wright

    She wrote about what she knew. If she was acerbic — well, then, you’re going to get a critical view of Southern whites.

    What amazes me about your comments is the high percentage of them that are based either on ignorance or illogic. The one above is clearly ignorant, and then proceeds to illogic.

    I grew up in Alabama. I was living in Birmingham in 1964 as an adult. The white people there then were either socially-responsible working-class folks or middle-class professionals. The kind of pathetic creatures populating O’Connor’s stories were, in reality, at most 1% of the white population. O’Connor knew these demographic facts. She was not criticizing Southern whites, she was creating grotesque caricatures in order to curry favor with Northern and Jewish literary critics.

    If she had been truly acerbic, she would have presciently written about how a city, like Birmingham, would descend into chaos when the white population moves out. The contrasts between Homewood and Pratt City were there to see.

  74. HalconHigh says: • Website
    @Unorthodox Black Sheep VN

    IMO….George Floyd was killed because Derek Chauvin is a psychopath.
    Simple as that.

    I’ll keep my eye on Blumenthal, Thanks.

    • Troll: AceDeuce
  75. Vojkan says:
    @Irish Savant

    An “absolute hypocrite”? No, just a true liberal.

  76. Not interested in fiction for the most part. It rarely holds my interest.

    • Replies: @xyzxy
  77. Bert says:
    @Colin Wright

    The published work Caldwell was trying to counter was social and economic criticism by The Southern Agrarians (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Agrarians) and historiography by people like Frank Owsley, who showed that landowning yeoman farmers made up the majority of the antebellum Southern white population.

    Caldwell’s audience of Northern “intelligensia” was not historically knowledgeable enough, nor perspicacious enough, to see the impossibility of Southern Whites as depicted by Caldwell or O’Connor in the mid-20th century being descended from the men who held off Northern armies for four years despite a huge disadvantage in numbers and materiel, and further back, from the men who defeated the British attempt to hold on to the Southern Colonies in 1780-81. Those historical facts do not admit the possibility that significant numbers of White Southerners in the mid-20th century were degenerates.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  78. Bert says:
    @Dumbo

    Whatever her motivations, non-Southerners interpreted the descriptions as social realism. I know. I was in Birmingham in 1964 interacting with such misinformed outsiders who had come to protest segregation.

    Possibly she believed that she was writing from a Christian viewpoint rather than an anti-Southern one. But if so, she should have known early on that her characterizations would be incorrectly generalized, and changed her tropes.

    • Thanks: Polistra
    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  79. @PJ London

    When a story invites us to make moral judgements about the people and events it depicts, don’t these judgements transcend the specific circumstances of the story, inviting us to draw wider conclusions about how we ourselves ought to behave in our own lives? Surely, part of the literary merit inherent in such writing lies in its ability to prompt further reflection on our own beliefs and behaviour?

    Whether or not an author adhered to the moral standards that informed their written work is consequently a legitimate and interesting question, although it may still turn out to have no relevance to judgements about the quality of their work or the validity of the views expressed in that work. An author may, of course, be both an accomplished storyteller and a hypocrite.

    • Replies: @PJ London
    , @Elvin Laton
  80. Polistra says:
    @Basil Ransom

    Faulkner had his Snopes (bad white) and his Lucius Beauchamp (noble Negro) but there were plenty of others like Carson McCullers, Erskine Caldwell, and most egregious: Harper Lee.

    That was my first thought reading this essay. O’Connor was one of many, and they all had the same thing in common: white people evil, black people good. Yes, exceptions here and there, but that’s the over-arching theme and as we see, it’s been going on a very long time.

    How many earnestly believed in this construct, and how many were just sucking up to New York editors, critics, and publishers? Likely for the most successful practitioners it’s a good measure of both.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  81. @G. Poulin

    Seems more like some kind of high-church Calvinist to me. You know, the “total depravity/all is grace” routine.

    I think O’Connor’s stories are magnificent and profound, so there you go.

    Linh Dinh is not grasping the essence of what she’s doing. She is trying to communicate, from a fallen human perspective, how disconcerting, unwelcome, and even brutal God’s grace can be.

    • Agree: Traddles
  82. Bert says:
    @Richard B

    On what data can you assert that the white middle class has always despised poor whites. To the extent that such middle-class distain has any validity, it only applies to the period since 1960, to the period that has been dominated by Jewish memes in the media and academia which compel weak minded middle-class whites to demonize their less successful brethren in order to virtue signal.

    As a child in Baptist churches and in my family pre-1960, I witnessed many acts of charity, organized and individual, toward poor whites.

    • Replies: @Richard B
  83. mcohen says:

    Conner would have definitely had a following in south africa.The book “black beauty” was banned,so you get the idea.
    However I was in a bar at the Ranch motel up north and the soccer world cup final was on.The bartender was black,a pro who I liked
    Anyway the picture played up and one of the white guys shouted out “Hey kaffir fix the TV”.The whole bar went quiet and a local white farmer told him to apologise and he refused.2 punches later and he was gone.
    Then an Indian tried to intervene and he also got punched.
    Tv came back on and it was back to the game.
    Nothing to do with race,just that the barman was a good bloke.

    Wrote this a while ago

    Minnesota burning

    [MORE]

    Fires are burning,the white house black
    People are hurting,there’s no turning back
    A man lay dying,on the street
    A broken heart ceased to beat

    The say Floyd broke the law
    A poor man’s last straw
    But this tragedy is looped on repeat
    A broken system lies under a sheet

    When will change give people hope
    Save them from a slippery slope
    They say promises are broken
    When gestures are but a token

    Let fires be a guiding light
    To do what is right
    Together we must all stand
    To bring change to this land

  84. mcohen says:

    Hey linh

    Why not write on “The magus”.The ending is worth at least 500 words

  85. @Irish Savant

    I didn’t know about her private racial views (thanks Linh) but they show her up as an absolute hypocrite.

    I don’t think she was a hypocrite. She suffers from the same flaws that will eventually doom our country – empathy and an instinctive preference for the individual and anecdotal over the general and statistical.

    This is why liberals win. You can show reams of statistics proving that blacks are more violent, have lower IQs and manage their time poorly. This is true on a general level, but most of us know decent upstanding black Americans. All the statistics in the world won’t convince anyone who has a few black friends and neighbors. Americans tend to be good-hearted and optimistic. “If my black neighbor Paul Washington is a good guy, then there must be hope for blacks in general” – that is how Americans think on an unconscious level. It is the same with gays and trans people. That one poor trans kid who my friends are raising will lead me to excuse all the nonsense and gross 55 year old men castrating themselves.

    • Agree: Bert, Realist
    • Replies: @chrimony
    , @Polistra
  86. Traditionally conservatives have always had contempt for poor whites. Poor violent blacks may be a threat, but poor violent whites are embarrassing – which is far worse.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
    , @plannumber9
  87. Bert says:
    @Basil Ransom

    The literary assault on poor whites you refer to has its historical basis in the conflict between the Southern coastal elites, i.e., English who received large land grants in colonial times, versus the homesteading Scots-Irish who arrived 50 to 100 years later. The Scots-Irish settled the “backcountry” Piedmont and montane valleys. In North Carolina the backcountry people found the coastal elite exploitation of them so onerous that, calling themselves Regulators, they rose up in armed revolt prior to the Revolutionary War.

    The Age of Jackson politically empowered the Scots-Irish for a time, but eventually elite status came from wealth, and the colonial tensions were replaced by straightforward social status competition. FOC from the Savannah coastal elite and Faulkner from a family long established within the elite apparently believed that the poor deserved their station, and that view was presented in their fictional worlds.

  88. I never read any of Flannery O’Connors books but I would like to thank Linh for reviewing some of them. He’s saved me from reading books about the vile, evil and degenerate side of life that some people seem to get their jollies reading, but I don’t. If I want to get depressed, I’ll just read the news.

  89. S says:
    @New Dealer

    Thanks. Looking at that Time magazine cover it becomes pretty clear exactly who it was that Jethro and Ellie May were modeled upon in the Beverly Hillbillies.

    • Replies: @Biff
  90. Oh come on Linh – you must know you are leaving out the entire point of the story. Flannery wrote using characters from her life. She lived in a segregated world but as a distinct outsider herself because she was raised and lived and died as a Catholic. Her characters are like literary cartoons – she used he term grotesque about her own writing. Trying to bash her into the little “racist” box is silly – she knew that even racists can be redeemed but redemption literally involves blood.

  91. Anonymous[282] • Disclaimer says:

    I’m interested in this magical white Georgian who has to be taken to Atlanta to see his first Negro, and the first one he sees is Sportin’ Life.

  92. Emslander says:
    @New Dealer

    It’s good that Lil Abner is recalled in this context. Flannery O’Connor’s characters were as cartoonish as Capp’s, except Capp treated white Southerners more kindly. His women were sufficient explanation for the lack of any external ambition among the men.

  93. PJ London says:
    @Julian of Norwich

    Your first paragraph is exactly what an author should be doing.
    “… to the moral standards that informed their written work” is not very clear.
    What does ‘informed’ mean in this context?
    You have no reason to assume that the ethics or principles of a fictitious character in any way reflects or represents the ethics, morals or principles of the author.
    Therefore the assumption or claim that Connors is a hypocrite based on her stories, is unfounded and slanderous.

  94. xyzxy says:
    @freedom-cat

    Strange, when someone states they don’t really have an opinion, but they demonstrate a compulsion to offer an opinion about their lack of opinion when not asked about it in the first place.

    • LOL: InnerCynic, Traddles
    • Replies: @freedom-cat
  95. DavidC says:
    @Colin Wright

    How is it that her name is stated a number of times in the article and yet you continuously refer to her as ‘O’Conner’. Your comments are reduced by your inability to spell her name correctly.

    DavidC

  96. Mr. Ed says:

    Apparent that most of you know NOTHING about the SOUTH, or about literature!

  97. Biff says:
    @S

    it becomes pretty clear exactly who it was that Jethro and Ellie May were modeled upon

    Jethro was the man…. Max Baer jr son of boxing champ Max Baer, lived the dream dabbling in a array of ventures:

    In 1985, Baer began investigating the gambling industry. He noted that tourists paid a US\$5 to US\$6 admission to tour the “Ponderosa Ranch”, which was the location for filming some episodes of TV’s Bonanza. There was nothing to see but a working cattle ranch, but people enjoyed it because of the Bonanza connection. Baer decided that tourists would also pay for something dealing with The Beverly Hillbillies. He began using his Jethro Bodine role as a marketing opportunity toward the gambling and hotel industry. Baer obtained the sublicensing rights, including food and beverage rights, to The Beverly Hillbillies from CBS in 1991. His business partner estimates the cost of obtaining the rights and developing the ideas at US\$1 million. Sixty-five Beverly Hillbillies slot machines were built in 1999 and placed in 10 casinos.[4]

    Max recently passed away about a month ago.

    • Replies: @S
    , @AceDeuce
  98. I failed to add that the other unavoidable tenet of White Southern Christian ethic is : Every day is a trial ; You pass or fail; Everything else is secondary! Both my grandmothers believed that and so did Flannery O’Connor.

  99. Traddles says:
    @Franz

    Yes, good points. In O’Connor’s “Everything that Rises Must Converge,” she does a good job of portraying a young white man who is an obnoxious, liberal, SJW-type from the 1950’s or 60’s. He is ashamed of his “racist” but generally kind-hearted mother, and he spends much of the story virtue-signalling with the blacks whom they encounter. To me at least, the racist mother is portrayed a lot more sympathetically in the story than her son is.

    • Replies: @One-off
  100. republic says:
    @utu

    Re: Joe Bageant
    He wrote,Deer Hunting with Jesus:Dispatches from America’s Class War

    About Redneck culture

    • Thanks: AceDeuce
  101. Since we’re talking about the South:

    I moved from New York state to the southwestern corner of Virginia – the part that’s west of West Virginia – in the late 1980s. There I heard about the difference between a Yankee and a Damn Yankee.

    A Yankee comes down, looks around, and goes home.
    A Damn Yankee don’t go home soon enough.

    I moved to a more northern state in the early 1990s.

  102. Mike Tre says:

    “ Most damningly, there are passages from O’Connor’s correspondences that even her staunchest defenders can’t whitewash. On May 3rd, 1964, just three months before her death from lupus, O’Connor wrote to Maryat Lee, “You know, I’m an integrationist by principle & a segregationist by taste anyway. I don’t like negroes. They all give me a pain and the more of them I see, the less and less I like them. Particularly the new kind.””

    There is no need to whitewash or defend this statement anymore then there is a need to defend the statement “The sky is blue.” It is a as honest, insightful and self aware as anything Dim Lihn has written.

    • Agree: AceDeuce
  103. Mike Tre says:
    @Harry Harlow looks for love

    Dim Lihn suffers from the same affliction many non whites do: Envy.

    This is the guy who finds poetry and meaning in a Hindu crapping in the dirt street but tisk tisks O’Connor for having the audacity to notice negroes are best to be avoided.

    • Replies: @Anonymous
  104. @Unorthodox Black Sheep VN

    Chauvin would have to be a strange one to murder someone in broad daylight with a watching crowd videoing the event. Why not a dark alley and a stolen gun? His face looks like he was trained by “israelis”.

    • Replies: @anarchyst
  105. I haven’t read anything from O’Connor (although I know of her work from some critics). Nor from Erskine Caldwell. On the other hand, I’ve read most of Faulkner & some of R. P. Warren.

    So, just a few remarks on blacks through whites’ optics …

    Most authors are not thinkers, don’t forget that. They are not “philosophers”, let alone sociologists, although many of them are, say, intuitive psychologists. As a rule, they don’t think things through, seriously. They just write.

    I wouldn’t say liberal, but magnanimous & humanist white Southern authors had conflicting view on blacks, and Flannery seems to fall into that category. She was an enlightened white, and her position is not much different from Faulkner’s, I’d say in most points.

    So, what they thought of blacks & whites?

    For them:

    * blacks were there to stay, so some compromise had to be found

    * main points of friction were social, sexual (and economic, too)

    * they considered blacks as physiologically different to whites, a truly alien race. And intellectually permanently inferior.

    * about segregation, they were conflicted. If forced to be explicit, they would- I think- say that they are for integration of a very small amount of educated blacks at school, but not social levels (except as nannies etc.). They thought of segregation a something natural, like a change of seasons, but would make it as soft as possible, not to hurt “better negroes” feelings.

    * they thought that blacks were poisonous for white race, that they are an authentic race with authentic culture, manners, types of behavior …..completely unsuited to whites of any kind, especially “Northern European” types

    * sexually, they saw black males as potential predators & black females as nannies. They didn’t think of black females in sexual terms. It is true that some of them described relationships between white men & very light mulatto women, but they were uneasy about it & haven’t come to any conclusion. As regards white women and black men, they thought that bitchy, psycho white females- actually, mentals- could be attracted to blacks, but virtually all normal white women would be automatically repulsed by black males. Even in dark corners of female psyche (masochism, sex fantasies of submission etc.) they didn’t see anything black. In the darkest corners, for them it was not dissimilar from bestiality & coprophilia.

    In short, they saw blacks as radically “other” and “going black ways” would necessarily entail self-destruction of white race. They could not even imagine Summer of Love, nor real interracial marriages (not just with blacks), because they found it repugnant at gut level. Nor could they possibly imagine that white females- not nutjobs- would voluntarily screw black NBA or NFL players. That was, for them, absolutely inconcievable.

    As regards white trash, you have o be careful- they followed the Southern tradition of the grotesque characters, and it was their fictional universe. Grotesque, two-dimensional characters can be useful in fiction (virtually all Dickens’ are), and when an author writes mostly of on them, they are very functional. She should not be judged as potential sociologist. For instance, grotesque characters abound in Gogol’ (I don’t think he could write about three-dimensional characters with inner life).

    Flannery O’Connor, from what I’ve seen (not read) is actually a milquetoast version of Faulkner in his masterpiece, As I Lay Daying, where all the characters are visionary grotesque lunatics, or, if you want- white trash.

  106. Angharad says:
    @Irish Savant

    Savant. Correct. The “intelligent” White Race Traitors “careerists” are the worst enemies of our people. They stab their own people in the neck every waking second, when they KNOW better, in order to advance their own selfish immediate interests. “I got mine right now”. They are too short-sighted to comprehend that racial solidarity would be the better policy in the long run. This is the tragic and perhaps fatal flaw of our Race.

  107. profnasty says:
    @Dumbo

    The nose knows.
    (ref. knowmorenews.com)
    Habu nice day.
    [KMN is a site that discusses Jewish Kabala cult beliefs. I just followed the link and it was censored. Hmmmm? I listen to Adam Green often. He’s a pretty smart feller.
    Did Unz censor? IDK. I sincerely hope not.]

  108. Trinity says:

    Well I always preferred Snuffy Smith to Lil’ Abner. hehe.

  109. Trinity says:

    Good ole Jethro might have been a tad different than his character. He apparently slapped actress Victoria Principal across the face back in the day. Max Baer Jr., was a pretty big guy and Principal was a petite woman, not a good look.

  110. profnasty says:
    @Dumbo

    I just found out. Dot org, not dot com.
    My bad. Too late to delete.
    I sincerely apologize for questioning the great Ron Unz: My teacher and a personal hero.
    I’m sorry.

  111. S says:
    @Biff

    Max recently passed away about a month ago.

    Am sorry to hear that about Max Baer Jr. He seemed to have been an all around decent person. Same for Donna Douglas.

    I’d read that when the show got canceled after a decade as part of CBS’s ‘rural purge’, when looking for new acting roles he found he’d been typecast in a pretty negative way (ie as an idiot) which, understandably, he didn’t much care for. In time he came up with the gambling concept you described, based upon the series, and made himself a living that way.

    He took something which could of been ultimately a big lemon in his life and made it into lemonade.

    Good for him.

  112. noname27 says: • Website

    “You know, I’m an integrationist by principle & a segregationist by taste anyway. I don’t like negroes. They all give me a pain and the more of them I see, the less and less I like them. Particularly the new kind.”

    I wonder how much the demons of popery influenced her thinking and created such double mindedness.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  113. @Richard B

    The point is Americans are not a real people, not even WASPs. They are rootless cosmopolitans or rootless provincials.

    John Updike thought so; many sociologists thought so.

    Isaiah Berlin, in his famous essay on Tolstoy, “The Hedgehog and the Fox”, writes on influential reactionary French author Joseph de Maistre (https://uniteyouthdublin.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/the_hedgehog_and_the_fox-copy.pdf):

    This is the distinction that permeates the thought of Pascal and Blake, Rousseau and Schelling, Goethe and Coleridge, Chateaubriand and Carlyle; of all those who speak of the reasons of the heart, or of men’s moral or spiritual nature, of sublimity and depth, of the‘profounder’ insight of poets and prophets, of special kinds of understanding, of inwardly comprehending, or being at one with, the world. To these latter thinkers both Tolstoy and Maistre belong. Tolstoy blames everything on our ignorance of empirical causes, and Maistre on the abandonment of Thomist logic or the theology of the Catholic Church. But these avowed professions are belied by the tone and content of what in fact the two great critics say. Both stress, over and over again, the contrast between the ‘inner’ and the ‘outer’, the ‘surface’ which alone is lighted by the rays of science and of reason, and the‘depths’–‘the real life lived by men’. For Maistre, as later for Barres, true knowledge–wisdom–lies in an understanding of, and communion with,la terre et les morts (what has this to do with Thomist logic?)–the great unalterable movement created by the links between the dead and the living and the yet unborn and the land on which they live; and it is this, perhaps, or something akin to it, that, in their respective fashions, Burke and Taine, and their many imitators, have attempted to convey.

    La terre et les morts- Americans don’t have this.

    • Agree: HeebHunter
    • Replies: @nosquat loquat
  114. Anonymous[282] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mike Tre

    Dim Lihn suffers from the same affliction many non whites do: Envy.

    This is the guy who finds poetry and meaning in a Hindu crapping in the dirt street but tisk tisks O’Connor for having the audacity to notice negroes are best to be avoided.

    Around blacks, never relax.

    • Replies: @Richard B
  115. Trinity says:

    No mention of Hee Haw? I watched for the scantily clad women. Personal favorite was Lisa Todd.

    No mention of those old Burt Reynolds movies like “White Lightning”, “Gator,” and “The Longest Yard.” All great movies, just as good as “Deliverance.”

    Anitra Ford aka Anitra Weinstein played the part of Reynolds girlfriend or lover in the beginning of “The Longest Yard” in a sheer negligee. Good gawd, that was one sexy Jewess. Good ole Trinity would break ranks to sleep with that broad in a heartbeat. Her Price Was Right in my book, troops.

    Cue: Saturday Night Special by Lynyrd Skynyrd for all my White trash buddies eating the All Star Special at the Waffle House this morning. And shout out to good ole Shakey Puddin’.

    • Replies: @HalconHigh
  116. One way and another I spent about seven years in USA between 2000 and 2015, the bulk of it in the South. Just to say that in no way do the (mostly) kindly and agreeable people met there deserve the vicious propaganda from ADL Jews and Northern “intellectuals”.

    I read hardly any fiction — some Caldwell, Faulkner a couple of that forgettable Grisham … ages ago in this genre. From my limited knowledge can recomment Frank Owsley’s history, recommended to me in Dixie and well worthwhile.

    Deo Vindice.

  117. Mefobills says:
    @Trinity

    Anyhow IF you were to happen upon Cooter and Booger’s still, you were not about to take an anal probe and be told to squeal like a pig. Your chances of being told to bend over and grab your shoe laces with your teeth while Booger drives you home are 100 million to one. NO good ole Mountain hillbilly is going to be attempting an act like that.

    You make a good point. Teevee and books don’t describe reality, they are fantasy. But, the human brain is wired by evolution to take in inputs and record them as reality.

    Our ancient forbearers told stories around the campfire, which were legends to help people have narrative about how they fit in, and should behave. The other inputs into their eyes and ears, were real life as they observed them, not something that came from a teevee screen.

    This is why it is impossible for democracy to work, as the average person is receiving information that has little bearing on reality. You can feed them real-life statistics all day, or counter their narrative with comments like yours (Cooter and Booger didn’t act like that), but it won’t stick.

    It takes a meritocratic elite to operate the levers of civilization, and the Jews behind the Teevee programming, or Jewish owners of publishing houses, do not have merit. They have the opposite of merit, they are destroyers.

    In other words, civilization could withstand false narratives that demean whites as trash, and make pretend negroes are magic. It could withstand only with an un-brainwashed elite pulling the levers of power. But, no high civilization is possible with universal suffrage democracy, where the population is narrative controlled dupes. The hidden elites are hostile.

    • Agree: Lurker, HeebHunter
  118. Liza says:

    Had FOC been a decent person she could just as soon have written stories about po’ white trash who did not behave in grotesque ways. She could have invented characters who, in spite of having so many strikes against them, struggled hard to make a place for themselves in this world while behaving normally.

    If FOC’s works are religious allegory and no more, what was stopping her from using her own kind as subjects. I guess it was easier to point to snaggle-toothed yokels as being especially in need of redemption.

  119. Traddles says:
    @Basil Ransom

    It’s good that you raised the issue of O’Connor’s religious messages. Her exploration of God’s grace is very important, and not much discussed here. I found it to be a very positive element.

    Regarding the English cultural legacy, there was more than one, as David Hackett Fischer showed in his book Albion’s Seed. English Puritans, Separatists, Quakers and Borderers had major effects, along with the Scots-Irish, Scots and others. I would argue that the impact of all of them was beneficial overall, yet in different ways.

  120. @Hibernian

    You are no doubt confusing “populism” with “conservatism”. The whole point of conservatism, originally, is that natural hierarchies exist and chaos and disorder result when people transgress their natural boundaries. I realize most American “conservatives” are usually, in reality, a mix of populist and libertarian but O’Connor was a traditional conservative.

    • Agree: AP, baythoven
  121. Mefobills says:

    The point is Americans are not a real people, not even WASPs. They are rootless cosmopolitans or rootless provincials

    Finance Capital makes people fungible (they have legs) as the capital is fungible.

    The Atlantic slave trade is a case in point. Capital was hypothecated into being (created from nothing), and then it pointed at ship building. The ships had a business plan, where said ships were full of rum, lumber and hemp on the outbound leg, and full of negroes on the inbound leg.

    The ships were always full, and “made money” on all legs of the journey. Negroes were made fungible by capital seeking out gains.

    Debt instruments are always expansive, making claims with clockwork precision. Pay X amount on this date. The claims have an non-linear exponential function, that forces peoples to become rootless as they have to conquer new lands, to then monetize said lands, by making new debt claims. New debts create money to pay off old debts.

    Finance Capitalism is a Jewish creation, as I have explained here at Unz before. America can be thought of as a Jewish construct, especially with Judeo-Christianity. But, it wasn’t always fully Jewish.

    There were ethnic enclaves and an attempt to make a “New American Man.” The new American man was the reasoning behind the 1924-26 immigration cut-off, to then consolidate the population as European whites.

    Congress Critters were made un-elite after the 17’th amendment was passed. With populist “elected” Senators, it was easy for our (((friends))) to get their way with ownership of money power, narrative control, and also a Kritarchy of law. Today, it has evolved to a deep state, which includes compromat as part of the control mechanism.

    The Kritarchy used negroes as agents of destruction; the descendants of negroes they had imported as part of make-some-money “business plan” of Atlantic slave trade.

    • Thanks: tgordon
  122. S says:
    @Anonymous

    Poor whites, especially southern ones, have always been fair game for the elites to slander and revile. I think it has been so that the wealthy could conscience-free exploit their labor and loot the natural resources, especially timber and coal, without compunction. And why, when the wealthy found sources of even cheaper labor overseas, they abandoned them with a sneer.

    Yep, and the fact those poor Whites have refused to give up their identity, disappear, or, simply roll over and die, really gets their blood up.

    Chattel slavery and its trade in both the North and South set a horrible template in place in this country, and this template is still in place today…ie White elites and hangers on importing alien labor because it was perceived to cost less (in the short term) than hiring their own people. First this was accomplished with chattel slaves, and, now, it’s accomplished (much more profitably) with wage slaves, ie so called ‘cheap labor’/’immigrants’. In each instance there is a near complete disregard for the current and future well being of their own people, and ultimately themselves, not to mention, of course, for the slaves as well.

    A person might balk at the idea that there are those so amoral and depraved that they would see the destruction of their own people for financial gain. Yet, in the US Civil War, Northern and Southern elites were prepared to see seven hundred thousand of their own die to ensure they could maintain, or expand upon, their respective chattel and, or, wage slave systems. [See the story behind Lawrence ‘Immigrant City’, Mass and its infamous sister city, the ‘abolition center’ of Lawrence, ‘Bleeding’ KS, each of whose mid 19th century construction was financed by the same Lawrence family of Massachusetts textile factory magnates, for insight into this subject.]

    • Thanks: New Dealer
    • Replies: @Alden
  123. Richard B says:
    @Bert

    On what data can you assert that the white middle class has always despised poor whites.

    You sound defensive. In other words, middle class.

    Your insecurity is either the result of a shallow and narrow historical (and contremporary) perspective, or simple denial. Because the evidence is everwhere.

    From an historical perspective we could go to the 19th century when the middle class really emerged in a formidable way on the stage of world history. Plenty of committed social critics from different cultural perspective were constantly railing against middle class Philistinism, that brutal middle class complacency and self-statisfaction that still exists today, except on steriods.

    And you can find it in unlikely sources, the poet Heine, the musician Schumann, but also, of course, Carlyle, Ruskin, Arnold (who himself was from the middle class) and also Flaubert, Nietzsche, especially in Beyond Good and Evil and his idea of The Slave Revolt In Morality.

    Ortega used that as the starting point for his masterpiece The Revolt of The Masses which singles out by name the middle class, who he said constituted a calamity for Western Civilization.

    But we can even go back further and to another country entirely. China! Because in the I Ching the social classes are represented by symbols. The middle class in that book are represented by three broken lines symbolizing insecurity.

    To the extent that such middle-class distain has any validity, it only applies to the period since 1960, to the period that has been dominated by Jewish memes in the media and academia which compel weak minded middle-class whites to demonize their less successful brethren in order to virtue signal.

    There’s some truth in that. But it’s far from the whole picture. In fact, so much so, that it badly distors the truth of the matter. Which is, the middle class never need much encouragement in the first place.

    As a child in Baptist churches and in my family pre-1960, I witnessed many acts of charity, organized and individual, toward poor whites.

    Maybe you did.

    But, as a child and adolescent growing up in the 60’s and 70’s I didn’t witness many acts of charity toward poor whites.

    I have no objection to introducing anecdotes to the discussion, but our examples are hardly enough to the settle the matter.

    • LOL: Bert
    • Replies: @Uncoy
  124. cohen says:
    @Colin Wright

    Colon or semi colon
    What the heck are you talking about?. Opinion and opinion. Do you have anything else to offer?

    Your never replied or defended your shining opinion:

    Whites built US. (Slaves-Black, Chinese, and Irish just sat on the side lines while drinking Tequila).
    David Irvin’s books are trash. Why you are afraid of supporting documents. And the big one
    Columbus helped the indigenous in Americas. Yes of course by killing them to take them out of their misery.

    According to Thomas Pain your are criminal because you are spreading ignorance in the disguise of information/opinion. “While knowledge is duty, Ignorance is a crime” People like you are polluting young adults mind without any shame.

    That is why you are equal to more or less a former sheep molester and now just jerk of infront of his cats and who does not get any liquid implosion. That is why give opinion without saying it an opinion. Is it incompetency or impotency.
    I bet you were beating the drums that Sadam has weapons destruction and he did the 911 job.
    I need to go you web page and find some goodies to challenge “legend in your own mind” people like you.

  125. @Colin Wright

    The soft bigotry of low expectations leads to plaques for blacks.

    BTW is there any realistic writing about Southern White ‘trash’? It all seems to be through the liberal coastal lens.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  126. Dkgfftjj says:
    @New Dealer

    Although the Bodines and Clampetts, fittingly in a comedy, were comical, they were no less ridiculous than the city slickers in “The Beverly Hillbillies”. In fact, they were portrayed as brave, strong, upright, and principled, offsetting their awkward misunderstandings of the modern and urban, their naïveté being more a sign of innocence and good nature (except for Granny’s endearing cantankerousness) than ignorance or stupidity. The city folk weren’t entirely good or bad, or smart or stupid, but the show’s sympathy was clearly more with the hill folk. Also, the hillbillies weren’t clearly Southern, or from any known region of the nation — they could have been Kansans, Kentuckians, or Ohioans.

    • Replies: @New Dealer
  127. Trinity says:

    Some decent movies that depict the South somewhat realistically

    Hush Hush Sweet Charlotte
    Cat On A Hot Tin Roof
    Cool Hand Luke
    Hud ( Texas panhandle IF you consider Texas as the South)
    Sling Blade
    Walking Tall ( THE ORIGINAL with Joe Don Baker not The Rock version)

  128. Richard B says:
    @Anonymous

    Interesting comment (and timely too, since I just finished listening to Berlin’s lectures on Romanticism). But, I respectfully disagree.

    The point is Americans are not a real people, not even WASPs. They are rootless cosmopolitans or rootless provincials.

    The point is that rootless cosmopolitans and rootless provincials are real people.

    To say they’re not is to treat them like Orwell’s Non-Person, it’s to dehumanize them because they don’t fit into a particular group. This is exactly what Woke Inc. is doing to Whites.

    Besides, when seen from a wider frame of reference historically, and considering the fact that just about everything is being uprooted the world over, who today in one way or another isn’t rootless?

    In any event, regarding Americans, all that their rootlessness means is that the word American is a dysjunctive category, not conjunctive. But that has just made the quest for identity that much harder, which has made not a few Americans that much more interesting.

    Unfortunately, however, America has a quantity problem that has pretty much crushed the idea of quality people.

  129. bayviking says:

    Huckleberry Finn uses the word “nigger” and is considered to be among America’s finest literature.

    But no story about “white trash”, as portrayed by Flannery O’Conners, sounds the least bit interesting to me.

  130. @Trinity

    Yep. And they’ve got some Huwhite high school drop out rural magistrates in upstate NY that can fuck your life up worse than Boss Hogg.

    • Replies: @Trinity
  131. When you scratch a little bit, you’ll often find stark racism behind antiracist posturing. For instance, making crackhead felon George Floyd a black icon is at bottom deeply racist.

    • Agree: Hibernian
    • Replies: @bayviking
  132. @Dkgfftjj

    My assertion that my life was ruined because of negative stereotypes in the Beverly Hillbillies was a parody. 🙂

  133. @Biff

    Thanks, Biff. I appreciate you giving us a first hand account like this. It sounds absolutely awful to watch someone you love die like that.

    This brings up the interesting question that I do not have an answer to. Christians, like myself, believe that God is good. We can look around us and see that in many ways God and his creation ARE good. We are surrounded with value, beauty, and too many blessings to count.

    At the same time, their is horrific suffering. Some of it can blamed on man’s evil actions, for which God is not responsible, as we are sovereign beings. But diseases like this… are coming from nature itself, which God created.

    The cookie cutter answer to this is that the world was cursed after Adam sinned. But I do not feel in my conscience that this is a good answer. Why did God allow horrific diseases to kill something like 50% of small children and babies in the past? Why mental illness, etc?

    Being all wise and powerful, I would think God would have a better solution. Allow people to suffer the consequences of their choices, but prevent our very bodies and nature from killing us. I would be interested in what others think on this, because I do not have a good answer.

    • Replies: @HeebHunter
    , @HallParvey
  134. Trinity says:
    @Jim Bob Lassiter

    I don’t know but my buddy tried to pull a Terminator impression and walked into a bar in Port Jervis buck naked or as we say in the South butt naked, and only received about a week or so in the pokey.

    LMAO just thinking bout that crazy mofo. Walked right into the bar on a Friday night, ordered a pitcher of beer and put some quarters on the pool table and sat his naked ass down at the table. Only thing he was wearing was his hat and boots. I have no idea where he put his wallet. hehe. I wasn’t there but he told me about it, and knowing this guy I believe him. He had been 86’ed from this bar before and when he walked in the bar, the female bartender shouted, “oh hell no.” She served him probably to keep everything calm, the cops came and took him to jail in his birthday suit. haha.

    This guy once tried to make a citizen arrest in Elizabeth, New Jersey as well. Real quiet guy but alcohol was like firewater to this cat. He was of Norwegian descent. He even was arrested in Glasgow, Scotland for another legendary episode. Last I heard from him, he had quit the sauce and got squared away. Glad to hear it, he is and was good people.

  135. I think many if not most of the popular writers in the last century are twisted, malignant people who view everything through a distorted lens. That is WHY they are promoted; because they further the agenda of maligning, perverting, and destroying the goodness of life and creation.

    Many of them might be skillful in a sense, but the pictures they paint are horrid caricatures of reality, not reality itself. Most of them are projecting the poison that is inside of themselves.

    • Replies: @Liza
  136. baythoven says:
    @One-off

    Thank you for your wonderfully interesting comment!

    I am unfamiliar with Lytle, except…It just so happens I read a story of his only a couple months ago in an old anthology collection I found lying around the house. It was the best story in the book, I was profoundly moved by it. (“Jerico, Jerico, Jerico” it was.)

    Any works of his in particular you might care to recommend?

    • Replies: @One-off
  137. @Basil Ransom

    Many Americans, particularly in the South, particularly among women, cherished the pretension that they were descended from old aristocracy, landed gentry, Blue Bloods, etc.

    Good Observation. One of the reasons for the existence of modern ancestry searching is the desire to connect with English royalty. Once a person has established that he or she is descended from European royalty, preferably English, the interest in searching seems to fade.

    • Replies: @Alden
  138. And in the end, they’ll come for the “UNDEPLORABLES” as well… sooner than they think. What a bunch of fools!

  139. bayviking says:
    @Jean-Marie L.

    The presumption of guilt is never justification for police violence. That is NEVER their place and non-existent of in the civilized European ans Scandinavian countries. One reason is mistakes are often made. Another is most police violence fits the definition of “cruel and unusual punishment” which is unconstitutional.

    One personal experience which serves as a good example happened to my brother years ago. He lost his drivers license somewhere and needed to replace it. Someone else, who happened to be a heroine dealer found it and used it for some time. In a routine traffic stop my brother was found to have an outstanding warrant for heroine dealing. He was arrested, roughed up, car car impounded and spent the night in jail. The next morning the officer that issued the warrant showed up and realized they had jailed the wrong guy. He was released but still had to come up with \$300 to get his car back. At least they didn’t kill him, an irreversible event.

    Anytime a policeman takes it upon himself to become the judge or jury he is at best out of line and at worst acting in violation of the law.

    • Agree: Iris
    • Replies: @HallParvey
  140. Bill says:
    @PJ London

    The only standard by which she should be measured is “Were her stories well written?

    Horseshit.

  141. @Dumbo

    We are all racists–which among other things, means we don’t see it as it is, but as we are.

    Hence the “different races”. Blacks agree they cannot give you what they don’t have. Whites fail to raise this agreed admission for purposes of racial narratives. Blacks have no value for order; it is all temporal. Now is forever, muh dik ad infinitum.

  142. Based (((educated)) huwhite w*men of muttmerica.
    Goddamn, can you stop peeling the layers of this rotten onion? The more you read about muttmerica the more you realize that God means for them to be an example. Their self-inducing extermination is the best thing to happen right now.

    Liberalism = Anti Nature = Death Sentence.

    • Agree: tgordon
  143. @stevennonemaker88

    Being all-wise and powerful, I would think God would have a better solution

    Anything further than what is already given to us right now would be downright stripping us of free will. It is time for some repentance!

    • Thanks: stevennonemaker88
  144. @Dead Hipster Society

    “Cline” is every bit as Irish a name as O’Connor, just a lot less common.

    In any case, we Trad Catholics love her not only for her stories but also for her grace prompted reply to some Manhattan sophisticate allowing that the Eucharist might be acceptable as a “symbol”:

    “Well, if it’s a symbol, then to hell with it”.

    All or nothing, as Our Lord Himself made clear.

  145. I am here in a weak position, because I haven’t read FOC. But I am skeptical about arguments that she would have been a better author had he not been an orthodox Catholic.

    The point is that many great modern authors are great because, among other things, they have been Catholics (Graham Greene, Evelyn Waugh, Georges Bernanos, Mauriac, Shushaku Endo, ..). God is, in their works, a living force- for instance, in Greene and Bernanos, their characters & the entire complexity of the situation stem from the assertion that God exists & his grace “flows” in the fallen world. Their fictive worlds are more spacious because of spiritual dimension.

    I suspect this is with Flannery, too. I just don’t know. I haven’t read her.

    Of course, most greatest novelists have been Catholics (Cervantes, Marivaux, Prevost, Balzac, Stendhal, Manzoni, Flaubert, Undset, Svevo, Verga, F.M. Ford, Baroja, Fitzgerald, Conrad, Musil, Broch, Joyce, Proust, Joseph Roth, Grass, Garcia Marquez, Carptentier, Asturias, …now Pynchon, McCarthy, perhaps Coetzee,…), but I wouldn’t call them Catholic authors -they were just that culturally, but not as active believers in most cases, which would be reflected in their creativity.

    To add some levity- there is a quiz in 10 easy steps to ascertain whether you, as a Christian, think like a Protestant (of a Puritan Calvinist kind & similar denominations) or a Catholic (hint- for Protestants of this type God is generally transcendent; for Catholics- transcendent and immanent).

    https://christiananswers.net/q-eden/catholic-protestant_test.html

    Are you THINKING like a Roman Catholic or a Bible-believing Protestant?

    • Thanks: Pheasant
    • Replies: @Dumbo
    , @R2b
  146. @obwandiyag

    CBS executives would tell you they cancelled the Beverly Hillbillies and a couple other popular shows (Green Acres and Mayberry RFD) that season because they were popular only among older folks and not so much with the desired younger demographic, but this wasn’t nicknamed the “Rural Purge” without reason.

    I spent my “misguided” youth occasionally visiting with a couple of the cast of Hee Haw, with whom my father went to school. Revealing this to my friends and colleagues during my NYC days always guaranteed a laugh or two followed invariably by a cringe. I seem to have done better than most of them since then despite having no Ivy sheepskin, so I guess it was the result of being reared with character and values.

    • Replies: @Hacienda
  147. anarchyst says:
    @Badger Down

    There’s more to the Chauvin / Floyd story that will probably never see the light of day. Chauvin knew Floyd as both of them worked as bouncers at a local club. It is likely that Chauvin was involved in the “drug trade” along with Floyd and that Floyd was probably going to “drop a dime” on Chauvin if he were arrested.
    I do think that the death of Floyd was likely unintentional, but then again, who knows?
    Of course, simian Maxine Waters and sleepy Joe Biden poisoned the trial with their remarks making a successful appeal of Chauvin’s convictions more likely.
    As to the charges against Chauvin, how can one be guilty of three charges for one homicide?

  148. “About the Negroes, the kind I don’t like is the philosophizing prophesying pontificating kind, the James Baldwin kind. Very ignorant but never silent. Baldwin can tell us what it feels like to be a Negro in Harlem but he tries to tell us everything else too […] If Baldwin were white nobody would stand him a minute.”

    Well, Baldwin was sometimes sincere. He, perhaps the most influential black literary figure of the last century, confessed in Notes of a Native Son that blacks feel alienated and inferior no matter where they travel in the modern world. Each black person, he mourned, is but a “stranger in their village,” a global village shaped by others—especially by whites.

    He wrote:

    For this village, even were it incomparably more remote and incredibly more primitive, is the West, the West onto which I have been so strangely grafted. These people cannot be, from the point of view of power, strangers anywhere in the world; they have made the modern world, in effect, even if they do not know it. The most illiterate among them is related, in a way that I am not, to Dante, Shakespeare, Michelangelo, Aeschylus, da Vinci, Rembrandt, and Racine; the cathedral at Chartres says something to them which it cannot say to me, as indeed would New York’s Empire State Building, should anyone here ever see it. Out of their hymns and dances come Beethoven and Bach. Go back a few centuries and they are in their full glory—but I am in Africa, watching the conquerors arrive. (Notes of a Native Son, p. 164)

    • Agree: chrimony
    • Thanks: Pheasant
  149. @anarchyst

    I know with certainty in many countries that I have lived in that cops redistribute drugs they seize in busts (or parts of the seized drugs) through networks of cops and drug dealers who work for them in clubs, bars, discos, the street. I have seen with my own eyes cops distributing drugs to dealers and collecting the money. I have known drug dealers who get calls from the drug squad whenever their has been some big bust to go down to the police station to taste the drugs and negotiate the deals. I have also seen plainclothes and uniformed cops in clubs operating after hours or “underground” swaggering up to the till, opening it and taking their racket for “protection” in front of the owner, staff and patrons in many countries, so I assume that this goes on absolutely everywhere, in cities and towns big and small. And I have known customs officers in many airports having a special door through which mules operating under their protection go through bypassing the usual passport control and customs, and have seen such just disappearing with their luggage from the regular passengers and crew through those doors and they weren’t diplomats. I believe they operate in collusion with partners at customs at other airports so their mules board the flights in the same way. I have personally known custom officers who were involved in such operations at Heathrow more than 40 years ago. In fact one such operation involving the chief of customs that operated for years there was broken up but who is to say that the new guys did not continue. And others elsewhere surely copied. The level of corruption in the police is unbelievable. In the UK the cops used to go around the posh parts of town telling the residents that they should inform them when they go on holiday so they can keep an eye on their properties but those in the know never did that and left their lights on as the cops were operating burglary crews. In fact one in a town I was living in was busted burglarising a house in the upscale part by other cops while claiming that he was just checking. Another favuorite was for screws, the prison guards, to organise armed robberies of wage deliveries, security vans, etc by inmates they would release to do the jobs and split the loot when they got back. If they got back they had perfect alibis as they were inside, if they got caught the screws would say they had escaped. I am aware this goes on now in many countries, especially in the third world, where inmates are even issued with police and security guard uniforms and weapons and set up roadblock to rob people then go back to jail to share the loot and live it up inside where they have access to anything they want: drugs, prostitutes, luxury items, release to go on the town and enjoy themselves, family visits, even holidays to beach resort. Cops and robbers planning crimes inside jails and operating all sorts of scams through their associates on the outside. Counterfeit money – sure, no problem. Absolutely anything if there’s money in it. It is ridiculous, if common people would only know what goes on.

  150. @Bert

    ‘Whatever her motivations, non-Southerners interpreted the descriptions as social realism. I know. I was in Birmingham in 1964 interacting with such misinformed outsiders who had come to protest segregation…’

    The illusions people have about the South are fantastic. I spent a total of perhaps six weeks down there doing moving jobs, and I wound up with a very positive opinion of white Southerners in general. In fact, if it wasn’t for (a) the appalling climate, (b) the presence of blacks, and (c) the virtual absence of trout, I’d likely have moved there when I retired.

    But what people think… The shade tree mechanic I used to use in the San Francisco Bay Area, himself a Lebanese by way of New York City, was filled with horror when he heard that I proposed to drive through Alabama — maybe even get out of the truck.

    Honestly. Just make sure you hold your mace can where the locals can clearly see it and you’ll be okay.

  151. That whole clutch of American authors is depressing and arid, O’Connor very much in the lead with Faulkner.

    Henry Miller affirms. Steinbeck affirms.

    • Disagree: Colin Wright
  152. @Colin Wright

    There’s a fine line between tolerance on the one hand and condescension on the other. Because of the fundamental intellectual dishonesty inherent in the latter, I find it to be worse than outright racism.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  153. Bill P says:

    Funny, but I can’t help but see parallels between Flannery’s white trash, e.g. the mean-spirited grandpa, and woke whites.

    I’m from Seattle, and many of those people are horrible. They lie with great ease, their hypocrisy knows no limit, they disrespect their family, especially those who came from flyover country, and they have no compunctions about abusive policies toward innocent children.

    They support riots that ruin people’s livelihood, they support putting other people out of work with lockdowns so long as they are still getting paid, they have no respect for rule of law, perjury is winked at in their courts, they put raw sexual gratification on a higher moral pedestal than spiritual enrichment, and they feel no shame in taking pleasure in spite.

    I could go on and on, but the point is that white trash is a real thing and a big problem in America. It’s just that there’s a general lack of self-awareness on the part of our current crop of white trash; they can’t see themselves for what they are, which prevents improvement. So in a way Southerners benefitted from Flannery O’Connor. She shamed them somewhat, and they did some self-reflection then improved themselves, largely with religion, which is effective.

    Now, if you were to compare a Seattle resident with a rural Southerner today, the Southerner would likely be more honest, compassionate, charitable, moderate and tolerant than the Seattlite. There’s an ebb and flow of these things. Humility begets improvement, success begets pride, and the cycle continues.

    • Agree: Trinity, sayless
    • Thanks: Pheasant
    • Replies: @Trinity
    , @One-off
  154. CNibz says:

    I’ve read many of your articles on Unz. This is by far the best. Don’t worry though, it’s only my opinion.

  155. G. Poulin says:
    @Hibernian

    It’s quite possible to believe in Original Sin without believing in Total Depravity.

  156. Hibernian says:
    @noname27

    Yea, because Catholics have a monopoly on double mindedness.

    • Replies: @noname27
  157. Trinity says:
    @Bill P

    The South doesn’t have ownership of the “white trash” label. Those unwashed masses of hippies contaminated by drugs and STDs that flooded San Francisco and Woodstock, New York in the 1960s certainly can be described as White trash. Many are still White trash to this day if they didn’t overdose or die off. Some are even in Washington, D.C. and got kicked out of hippie communes because they were too lazy to work. Of course, Bernie Sanders is Jewish so maybe his behavior is normal for his tribe.

    I define “white trash” differently than most. The average materialistic snob thinks of “white trash” as a person who lives in a rundown trailer park, shops at Walmart on the regular, is an advertisement for tooth decay, etc. NOPE, that is not “white trash.” Cue: “Rednecks, White Socks And Blue Ribbon Beer by Johnny Russell.

    White trash or “white trash” = Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, John Boehner, The Bush Family, The Kennedy Family, The Biden Family, etc. I mean we all saw those photos of “meth mouth” on the Tucker Carlson show. I really could go on with numerous examples of affluent “white trash” but you get the point. I remember reading a story about some big shot politician driving off a bridge, leaving the scene of the accident, and leaving the female passenger to fend for herself. Hmm, IF I were to choose between the guy with a couple of teeth, who kicks back and relaxes by drinking a PBR or that guy who left a woman hanging, I am going with the guy who left the scene and a woman to drown to death as the unanimous choice for the “white trash” award.

    The retarded “White” SJW = “white trash.” Seriously look at some of these people. They not only look like the definition of “white trash” unlike our rich “white trash” mentioned above but they are morally bankrupt cowards and I would wager they don’t smell that pleasant either. Total garbage is probably an even better word to describe this species.

    • Agree: Cortes
    • Replies: @plannumber9
  158. @Prester John

    ‘There’s a fine line between tolerance on the one hand and condescension on the other. Because of the fundamental intellectual dishonesty inherent in the latter, I find it to be worse than outright racism.’

    Maybe it’s all just semantics — but what’s wrong with condescension, per se? I’d condescend without scruple to six year olds playing baseball, for example. When we’ve clarified a few points, I could see myself condescending to blacks.

  159. UR2 says:
    @ricpic

    Thank you. I ve enjoyed and contemplated Flannery’s work off and on through the years, and your idea that she is describing an earthly hell made me think- that’s it! Something about her neutral attitude as she presents her exaggeratedly crass characters; like everybody’s worst moments strung together: an alternate slap-stick technique. Black/White has nothing to do with it. I know l’ve laughed and also have been in awe. It all points to heaven. How ridiculous are we? And selfish? Repeatedly? See it! Her imminent death, along with her theological insights (she was an eager reader of the Doctors of the Church) and Catholic Sacraments had opened her eyes.

  160. One-off says:
    @baythoven

    What a nice coincidence! You hit upon a nugget by accident, too.

    Yes, start with THE VELVET HORN, which would be required reading but/for Lytle’s inability to whisper. It is a rich portrayal of yeoman farm life in Lytle’s time and a profound meditation on youth, lust and salvation. It was nominated for the National Book Award and, until recent unpleasantries, a contender for the best American novel. Contrast the dignity and decency (and universal flaws) of his characters with the grotesque figures of O’Connor. Both were means to the same end. One got there without trashing the helpless.

    I sometimes think WAKE FOR THE LIVING may be his best, though. The vivid family tapestry is as rich as a Doestevesky epic and the spiritual aspect even deeper than O’Connor achieved, and, again, I am a fan of hers (and Linh, of course).

    Enjoy.

    • Thanks: baythoven
  161. @TelfoedJohn

    ‘BTW is there any realistic writing about Southern White ‘trash’? It all seems to be through the liberal coastal lens.’

    I don’t think Faulkner grinds any particular axes. See The Reivers, which is his most accessible work anyway. Also, Light in August.

  162. One-off says:
    @Traddles

    So true. How prescient is that story? EVERYTHING THAT RISES MUST CONVERGE is now more than then. As I responded to someone earlier, I had a mutual acquaintance with O’Connor and he gave me some insights that made me think the author saw herself as the mother character, frustrated and forbidden to speak truths she perceived.

    • Thanks: Traddles
  163. chrimony says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    I don’t think she was a hypocrite. She suffers from the same flaws that will eventually doom our country – empathy and an instinctive preference for the individual and anecdotal over the general and statistical.

    That doesn’t explain why she kept painting blacks in the most favorable light and whites in the worst, a complete inversion of how she felt privately. A dishonest hypocrite.

    • Replies: @Uncoy
  164. One-off says:
    @Bill P

    Great points but the fundamental difference is huge. Today’s Seattlites see their White trashiness as religious in nature, whereas O’Connor’s White trash characters had no such pretensions. It makes the contemporaries potentially and, as you point out, already at times dangerous people. Linh’s point also is a good one and sobering, and I chose a bad year to re-read Doestevesky’s DEVILS.

  165. Uncoy says: • Website
    @Richard B

    Richard, you are exceptionally venomous to people who have done you no ill. What you forget about the white middle class you castigate is what a non-exclusive group they are. It’s not hard to join. Just work reliably, buy Girl Guide cookies when they knock and greet your neighbours when you pass them on the street.

    Why would you expect the white middle class to be accommodating and welcoming to drunks, rapists, n’er-do-wells, petty thieves and cutthroats?

    • Replies: @Richard B
  166. Polistra says:
    @Peter Akuleyev

    She suffers from the same flaws that will eventually doom our country – empathy and an instinctive preference for the individual and anecdotal over the general and statistical.

    Very true, and similarly: all of the stats in the world indicating how a continuing flood of third-world migrants can swamp a nation’s culture and economy mean nothing to many people when contrasted with a single photo of a dead baby on a beach or a live baby being dropped over a wall.

    Universal suffrage seems like a good idea, so long as you believe patently false things, and/or are enthralled by the mass media expertly retailing patently false narratives. Most people do, and are.

  167. Uncoy says: • Website
    @chrimony

    Nothing wrong with striving for a better world. It’s more fair to castigate the sins of one’s own, which one know intimately, than the imagined sins of the other. Not very American though. The real American way is to blame the Injuns, the Germans, the Koreans, the Vietnamese, the Russians, the Iranians, the Chinese and now the Russians again for their own moral and worldly failings. O’Connor holding up a bright mirror on her own people is a welcome change from the usual US total absence of accountability and self-reflection.

    • Replies: @chrimony
    , @Colin Wright
  168. chrimony says:
    @Uncoy

    Nothing wrong with striving for a better world.

    There is when you’re inverting reality. That she acknowledged it in private but portrayed the opposite in public is what makes her a dishonest hypocrite. People like her, and people like you excusing such nonsense, is what gives us Clown World.

  169. @Uncoy

    ‘…O’Connor holding up a bright mirror on her own people is a welcome change from the usual US total absence of accountability and self-reflection.’

    ? This bears no relationship to reality at all. Start with Mark Twain, continue with Upton Sinclair, Sinclair Lewis, John Dos Passos…

  170. chrimony says:
    @anarchyst

    There’s more to the Chauvin / Floyd story that will probably never see the light of day. Chauvin knew Floyd as both of them worked as bouncers at a local club. It is likely that Chauvin was involved in the “drug trade” along with Floyd and that Floyd was probably going to “drop a dime” on Chauvin if he were arrested.

    The simple fact of the matter is that if Floyd had not resisted arrest, he would either be alive today or officially dead of a drug overdose. I knew from the beginning that we weren’t seeing the whole story and that he had likely resisted arrest. But it took [i]months[/i] for the body cam footage to come out, and other footage that was available “mysteriously” cut off between the time he was initially approached and the time he ended up on the ground being knelt on. Remember that he complained he couldn’t breathe while they were trying to get him to stay in the car. It was his continued struggles that caused him to end up on the ground being restrained.

    • Replies: @Badger Down
  171. saggy says:

    I couldn’t figure out LD’s previous article, and I can’t figure out this one … he writes …

    Though Flannery O’Connor didn’t live long, she left us some of the best stories ever written.

    but then concludes

    I’d say pretty damn racist, against poor whites.

    Neither statement computes for me …. the story described sounds like comic book level propaganda, not great writing. I grew up in a small (<1000) coal mining town in WV, and there was plenty of white trash around, and the OConnor's story doesn't even faintly ring true.

    And calling the story 'racist' seems wrong, it's not racist, it's just stupid and cartoonish writing. Like 'To Kill a Mockingbird', or Hemingway's story in the previous article. And all these stories vilify white people, which is no doubt why they are promoted.

    Any person with a few functioning bran cells is a racist. and using ‘racist’ to vilify a person is woke.

  172. Hacienda says:
    @The Alarmist

    CBS executives would tell you they cancelled the Beverly Hillbillies and a couple other popular shows (Green Acres and Mayberry RFD) that season because they were popular only among older folks and not so much with the desired younger demographic, but this wasn’t nicknamed the “Rural Purge” without reason.

    You recall that the Clampetts got super-rich by basically hitting the Mega Lotto. Unearned, a windfall. These were about as situational as situational comedy gets. As a boy, I recall enjoying the Beverly Hillbillies, because the characters were so stock and the intro was remarkably catchy. And at the time when the US was rural enough, the idea of hicks out-smarting, awshucks out-witting city folks was still fun in most of the country. Now it just seems strange, resentful, and sad. Much because of fringe fanaticism, surely. I never really took to Mayberry RFD, apparently such places did exist in the US, but not anywhere like I experienced. Petticoat Junction was superb. Green Acres was really for an older audience. The whole point of these shows was to flatter country folks, maybe the Jews just got tired of doing that.

    • Replies: @The Alarmist
  173. noname27 says: • Website
    @Hibernian

    Others don’t profess to be Christians. Double mindedness is anathema to Christians and Christianity.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  174. Fr. John says:
    @Irish Savant

    “I didn’t know about her private racial views (thanks Linh) but they show her up as an absolute hypocrite.”

    As does this article, show up a non-White’s racial animus to a culture he/she/it? can never be party to.
    Linh Dinh, you ain’t evah gonn’ be wha-yut.

    “Ways that are Dark”… indeed.

    • Replies: @Linh Dinh
  175. Dumbo says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Was Svevo strongly Catholic? It seems he converted to Catholicism at the bequest of his wife. And he was of Jewish origin (Jewish father, Catholic Italian mother). Supposedly he was an inspiration to James Joyce (who taught him English) to create the character of Leopold Bloom. Anyway, his novel “Zeno’s conscience” is really nice, but it didn’t seem very Catholic to me.

    Another important practicing Catholic writer of the 20th Century is the German Nobel Prize Henirich Böll. He’s a bit like Graham Greene I suppose.

  176. Drmike says:
    @Space cowboy

    You are correct. I am amazed how many people overlook or do not understand the themes of sin and redemption that are so much a part of this Irish Catholic writer. She wrote about and satirized the white people she knew. She was too ornery to try to please New York tastes.

  177. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @Fr. John

    Hi all,

    In an article that defends poor whites against slander, I get idiotic comments such as this, or two above from “Mike Tre.” Such poor reading comprehension and general nastiness betray a culture that’s no longer worth saving.

    Sometimes I wonder why I even bother.

    Linh

    • Agree: Bill, nosquat loquat
    • Thanks: Iris, ChuckOrloski
  178. @Dumbo

    True, Svevo converted, but was not too religious anyway. I’ve mentioned him as an example of a “technical Catholic” (after conversion).

  179. @Linh Dinh

    Well, as Camus said- we should imagine Sisyphus happy.

  180. @Richard B

    No, I don’t think so. In my view, most New Worlders are “real people”.

    I’m still tired from Covid, so I’ll just give two examples:

    1. why was there not a true upheaval, left of right, after 1929 crash? Too many space, too much diversity even among whites, …

    2. could Americans, white American people, endure & survive the amount of suffering Germans & Russians went through during WW2, without collapsing? Even 20% of that? When it comes to the pinch, are Americans (whatever that may mean) capable of acting as one man?

    3. can a people exist without a history? True, American history begins somewhere in late 1600s, but does any significant amount of people truly identify with some historical narrative going back to, say, 1777? I am not too sure.

    • Replies: @Richard B
    , @Manfrog
  181. Sinom says:

    This article is just race baiting. Both ways. Black and White. Some of us are capable of reading O’Connor’s writing with an appreciative but skeptical eye on her historical and political context. She was a great writer. The columnist here is a hack.

    • Replies: @Liza
  182. Trinity says:

    I can’t believe no one has mentioned The Andy Griffith Show which was around about the same time as Beverly Hillbillies, Mayberry RFD spun off The Andy Griffith Show and wasn’t very good but The Andy Griffith Show had a pretty good run. Ernest T. Bass & The Darling Boys were hilarious. Good ole Goober imitating Carey Grant. “Goober” is even a common expression in the South for a dweeb/geek/nerd. Hell, Barney Fife aka Don Knotts made that show with his one bullet. I made the mistake of calling the cop who arrested me for a DUI, “Barney Fife,” and on the way to the old Morgan Street jail in Tampa, Florida, the cop tells me, “Barney Fife always gets his man.” Unlike Saint George I did comply and I even sang a song or two to Barney and his partner on the way to the pokey.

    Cowboys were really Southern rednecks who ventured out west so you could include “Gunsmoke” as another popular show featuring country folk back then. Festus was as countrified as a country fried steak, mashed taters, greens, and biscuits and gravy.

    In the words of David Allan Coe, “coal burning stove and no natural gas, if that ain’t country, I’ll kiss your ass.” And who can forget the story about Johnny Paycheck having to have the Hell’s Angels babysit him in his hotel room and making sure Johnny showed up for the concert sober. George “Possum” Jones driving his riding lawnmower to the liquor store. Face it, rednecks, cowboys, and country folk are a helluva lot more funny and interesting than insecure city folks who are not willing to kick their shoes off and let it all hang out.

    Cue: Keep On Smilin’ by Wet Willie and Long Haired Country Boy by Charlie Daniels Band

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  183. Liza says:
    @stevennonemaker88

    I think many if not most of the popular writers in the last century are twisted, malignant people who view everything through a distorted lens.

    Most of them are projecting the poison that is inside of themselves.

    Hard to disagree with you. This world of ours is just chock-full of disturbed novelists and people lap up their offerings enthusiastically. Even when they are obviously brain diseased or sometimes end up killing themselves, still, they are “great writers”. Yes, there are exceptions.

  184. @Hacienda

    One thing that sticks with me, among many things actually, is Mr. J.D. Clampett being confronted with some service-staff’s outstretched palm and being told he is expected to give the guy a tip, so he tells him to plant his corn early.

    You can mark the severe steepening of the decline of America from the Rural Purge. Some would say it was Nixon’s closing of the gold window, but riddle me this: which came first?

  185. Liza says:
    @Sinom

    When you say she was a great writer, do you mean as a wordsmith?

    • Replies: @Sinom
  186. @Dumbo

    Yah, J Joyce … Ireland the sow … lol … my interpretation of Ulysses is that it’s no more than an extended practical joke on its readership, including those in academia who write learned theses on Leonard Bloom wandering pointlessly around Dublin …

    As one with 100% Irish blood I know absolutely that this is not only possible but indeed probable and the most likely “meaning” of the book …

    Anyhow, just motivated to post up Gid Tanner/Skillet Lickers + unknown female ref all this talk about “country”.

  187. @Richard B

    But, since the 19th century the White aristocracy has been replaced by the White middle class…. that insecurity comes out in the need of the [White] middle class to relentlessly and cruelly scapegoat poor whites.

    Are you truly this lacking in insight? Or are you merely being deliberately disingenuous? Let’s see if we can rephrase that assertion in a… slightly more accurate form:

    “But, since the 19th century the White aristocracy has been replaced by an alien, hostile elite that hates and fears the White/ Christian “Other.” The apparent “self-hatred” exhibited by many status-striving Whites is largely driven by false consciousness/ internalized systemic semitism/ desire to get ahead on an individual level in a system that hates them.”

    FTFY

    • Troll: Richard B
  188. I’ve been an admirer and evangelist for Linh Dinh’s writing since Postcards From The End Of America. I’m warmed by his empathy and his connection with people trying to get by, hell, they’re my people. I can disagree with someone’s opinion without wanting to hurt their feelings or damning them to hell. I ‘ve been worried about him since he seems discouraged, but that’s a sane reaction to current events. My advice would be to read Christmas Morning by Frank O’Connor , truly uplifting for all us sons of drunkards.

  189. Anon 2 says:

    O’Connor (1925-1964) was an anomaly in so many ways. She was a devout (and disabled)
    Irish Catholic who lived in the South surrounded by Protestants. I don’t know if I’ve seen
    this angle before but her works could be construed as a critique of Protestantism, and
    the kind of people it produces. Few things contribute to your creativity as much as
    having two contrasting philosophies of life fighting for dominance in your head, and
    considering her short life, she was nothing if not creative

    • Agree: utu
    • Thanks: Iris, ChuckOrloski, Dumbo
  190. As a matter of a novel influencing real history … I am reading Uncle Tom’s Cabin a probably 1930’s edition. It is better than I thought it would be. Now up until the time the white mobile health vans started showing up at elementary schools in some states, about the late 60s, you could tell a redneck by if all their teeth were missing by age 20. Those white vans gave us toothbrushes, something we had never seen before. Also City of God by Augustine.

  191. baythoven says:
    @Dumbo

    Another important practicing Catholic writer of the 20th Century is the German Nobel Prize Henirich Böll. He’s a bit like Graham Greene I suppose.

    I enjoyed Boell quite a bit in my earlier years. But I think of him as an Alcoholic writer, not a Catholic writer. I suppose I was missing some things, maybe I should revisit him.

  192. @Linh Dinh

    Mr Dinh, I do thank you for defending poor whites against slander, unlike some of the more moronic commenters here. They are a much maligned group, whom the upper-middle class who form the dominant political groupings never cease to defame.

  193. Trinity says:

    I think the state of Georgia probably is mentioned in the titles of more songs than any other state by far. And this doesn’t include songs with Georgia in the lyrics like ” (Sitting On) The Dock Of The Bay” by Otis Redding or Ramblin’ Man and Statesboro Blues ( Statesboro is a town in Georgia) by the Allman Brothers, or “The Breeze” by Lynyrd Skynyrd, etc.

    Just off the top of my head I can come up with

    Rainy Night In Georgia
    Midnight Train To Georgia
    The Devil Went Down To Georgia
    The Night That The Lights Went Out In Georgia
    Georgia On My Mind
    Sweet Georgia Brown
    Way Down In Columbus, Georgia

    Probably more but these are the ones that come off the top of my head. Maybe California might give Georgia a run for its money but I cannot think of that many with California in the title and in the lyrics as well. I know there are quite a few other songs with cities in Georgia or Georgia in the lyrics.

    • Replies: @Trinity
  194. Trinity says:
    @Trinity

    Oops, forgot about Texas. Gotz to be a lot of songs that mention Texas or have Texas in the title somewhere. Don’t mess with Texas.

    So I will GUESS and say Georgia, Texas and California would be in the run for most mentioned in song titles, songs and lyrics, with New Yawk maybe fourth.

  195. durd says:
    @Rev. Spooner

    Here’s a easy way into slum exploration. I found it highly interesting as the guy interviews the people Linh takes photographs of. I don’t know how he gained their trust.

    https://www.youtube.com/c/SoftWhiteUnderbelly/videos

  196. R2b says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    ”Jesus blood never failed me yet, never failed me yet, this one thing I know.”
    If you want to determine which is the best, you will find yourself in existential straits.
    Work your salvation, or…
    Accept the free gift.
    Scripture points to the work of Christ.
    It is clear to me, that the sacrifice on the cross, was complete.
    Petty minds always will crave some completion.
    Let them.
    I don’t believe it.
    You are saved by grace.
    Hallelujah!

  197. Hibernian says:
    @Trinity

    Cowboys were really Southern rednecks who ventured out west…

    A lot of them, but not all of them. Many were recent Irish immigrants; many were Hispanic. The number of Black guys has been exaggerated. Conflict between Union and Confederate veterans was a fairly common theme in Westerns, including Gunsmoke.

    • Replies: @Alden
  198. Hibernian says:
    @noname27

    No True Christian/No True Scotsman

    • Replies: @noname27
  199. Grumpy says:
    @Linh Dinh

    Your essay made me see Flannery O’Connor with new eyes.

    You have a way of doing that. Your recent essays on Cairo were fascinating.

    Speaking of which, you left Egypt before the Egyptian government staged its over-the-top extravaganza to celebrate the moving of pharaohs’ mummies from one museum in Cairo to another. Watching it, I kept wondering what you would think.

  200. @Colin Wright

    Flannery wrote some fine stories about people of all kinds, including white trash, ordinary middle class whites, low class blacks, etc. She wrote, as do all true fiction writers, about what she knew. She wasn’t into such absurdities as romance fiction, YA fiction, dystopian fiction, science fiction etc. I wish Dinh had left her alone.

  201. If one could name an event and date that made it perfectly kosher, if not “American” to demonize Southerners aka “white trash,” it would have to be the lynching of Leo Frank in 1915. 

    The Jews will never forget this act of goyish defiance: The Anti-Defamation League of B’nai B’rith aka (ADL) was formed in 1914 in response to this and it is still terrorizing us today in 2021.

    FYI, Frank was found guilty in a court of law of the rape and murder of 13-year old Mary Phagan. The mob lynching was righteous and in reaction to Jewish perfidy.

    But according to Wikipedia:

    “His [Frank’s] lynching two years later, in response to the commutation of his death sentence, became the focus of social, regional, political, and racial concerns, particularly regarding antisemitism. Today, the consensus of researchers is that Frank was wrongly convicted and Jim Conley was likely the actual murderer.”

    Yeah, sure, blame it on the negro Jim Conley… the hypocrisy of these ADL & BLM Jews knows no bounds.

    • Agree: Arthur MacBride
    • Thanks: Iris
    • Replies: @Alden
  202. AceDeuce says:
    @Biff

    I wasn’t aware that he died.

    Maybe 30 years ago, I was watching some channel-maybe MTV or VH1- and for whatever reason they had Max Baer on, interviewing him about the Beverly Hillbillies and whatnot.

    Other than a mustache and wearing normal clothes, he didn’t look any different than Jethro did 25 year earlier-not really much older-looking, not heavier. The strangest thing was-here was “Jethro” as far as appearances go, and he was speaking as a normal, articulate, intelligent man. It took a minute to get used to.

    • Replies: @S
  203. noname27 says: • Website
    @Hibernian

    And how many Scotsmen are Roman Catholic?

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  204. Sinom says:
    @Liza

    Yes, she wrote beautifully in her vernacular.

    • Thanks: Liza
  205. @chrimony

    Here’s how it should be done (start at 2:00). The cop gets in more trouble than the “suspect”.

  206. This entry makes it clear that Dinh is a racist. Seventy years ago there was freedom of speech in America and one didn’t have to fear the likes of Antifa and BLM for expressing a viewpoint. O
    ‘Conner wrote some fine stories and had a difficult life, dying early of lupus. Unz should not be printing this kind of after the fact analysis sixty years later.

  207. Trinity says:

    Are Cockneys the “white trash” version of Londoners? While visiting Glasgow, Scotland, I was told by some Scottish lad that I looked like a Cockney, I thought the sumbitch was calling me a Cawk.

    Would Joseph Conrad’s “The Nigger of the Narcissus” be required reading in “skoo” nowadays?

    Is “The Mutiny On The Elsinore” by Jack London considered racist? hehe.

  208. Trinity says:

    Each race or ethnicity has their hierarchies whether it be Orientals, Hispanics, or East Indians, etc.

    The lighter skinned East Indians look down on the darker skinned East Indians, the Northeast Orientals like the Japanese and Koreans look down on Southeast Orientals like Filipinos, Vietnamese, Laotians, etc. And Hispanics look down on Mexicans. That one I cannot figure out. I have a higher opinion of Mexicans than I do Puerto Ricans or El Salvadorans but for some odd reason, the Mexican is the “brown trash” version in the Hispanic community by other Hispanics.

    Now when you compare so called “white trash” with some form of “brown trash”, “yellow trash” or “black trash,” I think “white trash” is clearly the less trashiest if you will. lololol.

    And as for those primitive, desert dwellers in the Middle East that stone people and can’t get along with each other and do funky dances like they are humping something in front of a wall and treat women like second class citizens, and that includes the Jew and Arab, well, really? I will take Ellie May, Jethro and Cooter over that any day of the week.

    • Replies: @anon
  209. S says:
    @AceDeuce

    I wasn’t aware that he died.

    I hadn’t heard that either, but, I did some checking around, Max Baer Jr is still kicking.

    Jethro lives! 🙂

  210. anon[858] • Disclaimer says:
    @Trinity

    And Hispanics look down on Mexicans. That one I cannot figure out. I have a higher opinion of Mexicans than I do Puerto Ricans or El Salvadorans but for some odd reason, the Mexican is the “brown trash” version in the Hispanic community by other Hispanics.

    could have something to do with the fact that mexicans are rapists

    a HuffPo article a few years ago pointed out that 70% of migrant women travelling thru mexico to get to the U.S. had been raped by mexicans

    • Replies: @Trinity
  211. Hibernian says:
    @noname27

    There are a few islands off the northern coast where just about everybody is, sort of like Ireland. The there is Glasgow, unless you’re of the school of thought that says your nationality is the nationality of your great grandfather.

    • Replies: @noname27
  212. Trinity says:
    @anon

    I get that, but are the Puerto Ricans or El Salvadorans and a few others really that much better than Mexicans?

  213. Alden says:
    @Anonymous

    Noo Yawker Edith Wharton wrote several novels about New England and midwestern White trash. John Grisham’s novels are full of White trash and good blacks. His The Client was so full of condescension towards the boys mother I couldn’t finish it. But he was so admiring of the rich witch liberal White woman attorney whose kids were taken away because of her alcoholism and mental problems.
    I used to read a lot of contemporary fiction. Not any more. Every book published has a brave White liberal saving blacks browns and gays from evil Whites.

    I never read Flannery I’Connor. Glad I didn’t

  214. Alden says:
    @dimples

    I love all his writing , including the stories about old drunks he meets in bars. He can make waiting in a post office line interesting.

  215. Hansruedi says:

    The artificial nigger could have been written by juan rulfo.

  216. Alden says:
    @Maowasayali

    The medical examiner determined it was a White man who raped and murdered Mary Phagan. He left his straight dark brown head hair on her chest and in the reddish blonde wavy long hair on her head. He left his Caucasian black pubic hair tangled in her brown not black pubic hair. He was as much a lecherous creep as Harvey Weinstein. Only he preyed on very young factory slaves. And killed his latest victim.

    No Jew or caveman proto Jew in the history of the world has ever done anything that was not of the most upright morality

    Including Aaron Kaminsky aka Jack the Ripper.
    He was a major suspect. The killings ended when he was sent back to a locked mental hospital. A descendant of Kaminsky’s sibling donated her DNA. It matched some of the blood on the shawl if Elizabeth Stride. One of the victims.
    Must be at least a thousand Who Was The Ripper books. But when Scotland Yard did the DNA tests; no one was interested.

    • Thanks: Colin Wright
  217. Alden says:
    @Hibernian

    If there were as many black cowboys and buffalo soldiers as Jews and liberals claim. They would have left some obvious DNA no?

  218. Alden says:
    @HallParvey

    I believe Edward 3 of England with 10 legitimate and several other children is the ancestor of most indigenous English people and millions of Scots. Irish and Americans with some English ancestry including American and Caribbean blacks.

    Then there’s Charlemagne and the Turkish Sultans.

  219. Alden says:
    @S

    My Dad’s maternal gr gr gr greats were abolitionist settlers burnt out of Lawrence KS by Quantrill’s Raiders. From Dorking England to Plymouth and Doxbury Mass to Lawrence KS to CPUSA, civil rights movement to insane Seattle, the spirit of buttinsky Puritanism lives.

    • Replies: @S
  220. “I don’t like negroes. “. The author of this article calls Flannery a racist for this. Is that really what racism is? One group of people not liking another? I always suspected it was something as common as this. We live in a world were blacks are encouraged not to like Whites but if Whites return the sentiment then they are racist, worse than a murderer don’t you know .

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
    , @S
  221. Richard B says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    In my view, most New Worlders are “real people”.

    Where in my comment did I say they weren’t real people?

  222. Richard B says:
    @Uncoy

    Richard, you are exceptionally venomous to people who have done you no ill.

    That’s not true at all.

    What is true is that you’re extremely thin-skinned and defensive when it comes to reading valid and accurate criticism.

    But that’s to be expected. The thin-skinned are always shocked by the tough-minded, just as the tough-minded are always irritated by the thin-skinned.

  223. S says:
    @Alden

    That is interesting. A very few of the Lawrence, KS colonists came directly from Lawrence, Mass itself, where they had been wage slave immigrants..ie so called ‘cheap labor’.

    Obama’s mother had lived in Washington state for awhile with her family. Her father’s side of the family, had almost certainly been 17th century Puritans in New England.

  224. @Jim Crowey

    ‘“I don’t like negroes. “. The author of this article calls Flannery a racist for this. Is that really what racism is? One group of people not liking another? I always suspected it was something as common as this. We live in a world were blacks are encouraged not to like Whites but if Whites return the sentiment then they are racist, worse than a murderer don’t you know .’

    What’s occurred to me is that racism is not only not all that awful, it’s not all that important.

    I am frankly racist with respect to blacks. Let’s not even get started on that.

    Nevertheless, I had a couple of good black employees back in the day, and I dare say I treated them fairly. I also had various black customers, and I always did my best for them — as I tried to do for all my customers.

    So if you were black, who would you rather work for or deal with — racist Colin, or somebody who is going to exploit you, defraud you, and abuse you without regard to race, creed, or color?

    I’m reminded of when I was buying a digital camera online. I realized a firm I had used for electronics before with perfectly satisfactory results was owned by Satmar Jews, who don’t support Israel but who do believe that come the Messiah, all good gentiles will serve the Jews as slaves for all eternity while the bad gentiles will go to hell.

    I thought about that one for a bit. Decided I’d take the good deal on the camera and the lack of support for Israel. When the Messiah comes, He’ll do whatever He’s going to do. Both I and the Satmars will just have to accept it.

    Meantime, it’s not like I’m inviting them over to dinner.

  225. HalconHigh says: • Website
    @Trinity

    Always had the hots for Anitra Ford.

    Smokin hot in “The Big Bird Cage” lol

    Think I was a senior in High School when that came out.

    • Replies: @Trinity
  226. S says:
    @Jim Crowey

    “I don’t like negroes. “. The author of this article calls Flannery a racist for this. Is that really what racism is? One group of people not liking another?

    While the promoters of the concept of ‘racist’ and ‘racism are happy to let people think it references abuse between people’s and ethnicities, something most healthy minded people certainly don’t advocate, at it’s core it seems to be in reality driven much more by the fact that its promoters don’t like (or can’t deal) with the fact that various races and ethnicities do indeed exist, particularly in the physical sense, at all. For now, they’re genocidally going after Euros, but in time, they’ll go after most every other people besides, in the same manner.

    As a micro-cosm, something similar sometimes happens with individuals, who, having a tough time in their life and dealing with reality, make the mistake (or fall into) the error of thinking if they just pretended their individual self (physically and psychologically) no longer existed, all their problems would disappear. For a while, living in lala land, they might operate under the illusion (delusion?) that they’ve achieved a sort of nirvana, but reality soon catches up with them.

    These are the sorts that become co-dependent, ‘people pleasers’, ‘doormats’, or, the ‘bullied’. If they come out of this unhealthy mindset and regain their sense of self and identity, they can lead happy and healthy productive lives. If they don’t, they’re often miserable as they are preyed upon, exploited, enslaved in various ways, or simply killed for someone else’s kicks. Sometimes they internalize this abuse and suicide.

    The same reality as a macro-cosm applies to the various races and ethnicities.

  227. Trinity says:
    @HalconHigh

    I loved that scene with her in the opening of the ORIGINAL, “The Longest Yard.” She’s begging Burt Reynolds in that sheer red negligee to play around and amazingly Burt isn’t interested. Boy, oh boy, no way I am walking away from that one.

  228. Trinity says:

    I just thought of Tom Wolfe as a Southern writer who mocked Northerners, racist Blacks and Browns and Jews in “Radical Chic And Mau-Mauing The Flak Catchers. This wasn’t fiction this was the real deal. Some of Tom Wolfe’s stuff would probably be removed from the shelves in today’s society. The usual suspects like Norman Mailer were critical of Wolfe, wonder why? haha.

    I actually liked one book by Norman Mailer, “Executioner’s Song” which was a non-fictional account of murderer Gary Gilmore and his plight to be executed by a firing squad in the state of Utah. Mailer, being the scum he was, also was instrumental in helping parole murderer, Jack Abbott who wrote, “In The Belly Of The Beast” while doing time in a Utah maximum penitentiary. IF you can stomach Abbott’s commie rants, it is a good book, Abbott was the illegitimate son of a Chinese prostitute and an Irish American sailor if I remember right. Upon being released in the early 1980s, Abbott would kill a man in Manhattan and be sent back to prison where he would later commit suicide.

    That (((Norman Mailer))) what a douchebag that guy was. Check out the fight between Rip Torn and Norman Mailer still available on YouTube for laughs. Torn is high as shit and his eyes and mannerisms remind me of Crazy Charlie Manson. haha. This was the infamous “hammer scene in the movie, “Maidstone.”

  229. @Julian of Norwich

    I’m under-educated, and just became aware of O’Connor through Lin Dihn.
    All the comments are as interesting as the article; definetely educational. Leading me to say O’Connor used her talent for painting word pictures, so as to get published by the same bunch of culture debasers and destroyers who through their relentless efforts, continue to this day; almost done.

  230. One-off says:
    @Linh Dinh

    First, thank you for all you do. Your essays are literally the best writing I encounter these days in all form.

    I don’t blame you at all for the frustration, but as a native White Southerner let me offer one explanation for the misplaced reactions. If someone is a White Southerner basically everything they have encountered culturally is hostile to them. So while people should read more critically, it is so rare to find something sympathetic it is understandable why the default is to react with hostility.

    It is indeed amazing to watch the marginalization of “White trash” expand to include all Whites. When the wine mom Karens feel the heat, and it will be soon, the effort to sympathize will be Herculean. And, given your background, the fact you have seen this movie before may allow you to have more empathy to muster than I can.

    Again, thanks, and Unz is fortunate to have you.

    • Replies: @Linh Dinh
  231. On May 3rd, 1964, just three months before her death from lupus, O’Connor wrote to Maryat Lee, “You know, I’m an integrationist by principle & a segregationist by taste anyway. I don’t like negroes. They all give me a pain and the more of them I see, the less and less I like them. Particularly the new kind.”…

    In O’Connor’s stories, blacks are generally dignified and likable, unlike her idiotic, freakish or criminal white trash. When O’Connor’s blacks transgress, it’s rather harmlessly, like stealing a turkey. They’re not smug idiots, confidence tricksters or murderers, like her white trash.

    Unlike the one-armed white trash in “The Life You Save May Be Your Own,” O’Connor’s blacks don’t steal your car and abandon your deaf daughter at a roadside diner, miles from home. Unlike the three coolly depraved white trash in “A Good Man Is Hard to Find,” they don’t shoot your grandchildren, including a baby, before finishing you off.

    In short, Flannery O’Connor was a despicable sell-out. She saw the truth but wrote otherwise, presumably in order to be considered “respectable” by the (((Northerners))) who determined whether she got published.

  232. Linh Dinh says: • Website
    @One-off

    Hi One-off,

    Many thanks, and thanks to all who have left kind, appreciative comments. As for the mindlessly hostile, I seriously doubt they’re southerners, for I’ve never met southerners so rudely idiotic, though of course there must be some out there.

    In my high school in Northern Virginia, there were plenty of southerners, and as an adult, I’ve traveled to North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi, Lousiana, Florida, West Virginia and Tennessee. Nowhere did I encounter any rudeness or hostility, but quite the opposite, in fact.

    In western Tennessee, I visited a white friend, a woman, and this area was so white, I didn’t see any blacks, much less Orientals. Of course I was self-conscious when out and about with my friend, but the place was nothing but friendly. There was even a cafe run by two lesbians, and no, this wasn’t a hippyish town, like Carborro, North Carolina.

    I think the country has become to touchy and angry that we have easily-triggered people who can’t even tell friends from foes, but that’s the surest way to defeat, personally and collectively.

    Linh

    • Thanks: Iris
    • Replies: @HallParvey
    , @One-off
  233. Trinity says:

    To be fair to O’Connor she lived in a different time period. The only story that I ever read written by O’Connor is “A Good Man Is Hard To Find,” and being a fan of True Crime, I enjoyed this fictional account of the “Misfit” and his crime spree. The South is no different than the North, there are less than honest White Southerners, shysters, crooks, thieves, rapists and even mass murderers. So lets no kid ourselves into thinking all White Southerners are all paragons of virtue and morality as well.

    I have spent more time in the Deep South than anywhere else in my life and my ancestors are from Georgia so I think I know a little bit about what I am talking about. My mother, no SJW by any stretch of the imagination, did tell me stories of how Blacks were treated in the small Georgia town she grew up in. She did witness a cop hit a Black boy with a club just for acting up in a line outside a movie theater. She also knew a White girl who had been raped by a negro in a small Georgia town in the 1950s. So my mother was witnessing the same Georgia that O’Connor writes about. She knew of a hot tempered White guy who shot a Black guy for just teasing him. I don’t have any doubt that there where Whites as O’Connor described in her stories but O’Connor painting Blacks as noble or morally superior? Oh lawd, not even back then according to the accounts I heard from reliable sources.

    And I might add that Jungle Fever was present back then, but it wasn’t with the White women like that which was told in that ridiculous fairy tale, “To Kill A Mockingbird.” It was White men who would sneak off and have sex with Black women and sometimes the result was a mixed kid or a “high yellow” or “redbone” Black kid.

    The South is noted for its hospitality but let me say as someone who has lived in the South for a couple of decades, that much of that sugary sweet hospitality is PHONY. SOME Southerners can be as conniving as Yankees if not more so, and that Southern friendliness can erode in a flash over a perceived slight not matter how small.

    The “Misfit” character exists in the South, North, Mid Atlantic, West Coast, etc. Ever hear of Danny Rolling, the Louisiana serial killer who slaughtered college kids at the University of Florida in Gainesville, Florida. Gainesville/Ocala is the last point in Florida where Florida resembles a Southern state, from Tampa and below, it is Yankee land or Latin America.

    I can only comment on one the author’s stories and I found it pretty good, but from what I have read about her other stories, I don’t have a problem with her painting SOME Southerners in a bad light because well, there are some scum in the South just like anywhere else, but to paint the negro has some innocent, and noble human above it all EVEN BACK THEN, it is an outright lie. My guess is IF O’Connor grew up upper middle class even in the Deep South, that back then she only knew about negroes from afar. We are talking about a time when the Deep South was segregated, negroes sat in the balconies at movie theaters, attended separate schools, lived in segregated neighborhoods, etc.

  234. Trinity says:

    Was O’Connor really a sellout? I can’t say because I only read one story she authored and I thought it was a great short story.

    I can’t pass judgement on O’Connor but I will reserve the sellout description for plenty of Yankees and Southerners alike. Is there a bigger “white trash” sellout than Quentin Tarantino or that New England Puritan, Stephen King? How about “white trash” like John Grisham or Harper Lee?

    O’Connor grew up in an era where the South had a lot of poverty, plenty of poor White folks and even poorer Blacks. Blacks committed their share of crime back then but lets face it, nothing like today, Blacks feared the long arm of the Southern sheriff back then. No doubt that O’Connor faced plenty of Yankee snobbery and elitism on her way to publishing her work, especially back then, when even Atlanta was regarded as little more than an oversized cowtown. And lets face it, writing about everyday life in Milledgeville, Ga. the way it really was back then and even today is not going to sell many books. I don’t think I would classify O’Connor in any way, shape or form as anti-White or anti-Southern from the little I know of her. Tarantino or Stephen King? Oh hell yeah. Grisham and Harper Lee? Absolutely.

    I think the criticism of O’Connor has been a bit unfair really. I will read some more of her work to make my own decision. Take a look at any NYT bestseller’s list of the last 50 years or so and you will see writers who REALLY ARE “white trash” sellout POS. Look at that Hollywood REJECT, Quentin Tarantino, has there been any more of a sellout than that weird looking creep? I think Flannery O’Connor is pretty damn far down on the list of people who sold out her own. She is a minnow in a pool full of sharks.

  235. @bayviking

    The presumption of guilt is never justification for police violence.

    Presumption of guilt is always the motivation for police action. Always. Resisting arrest leads to violence including the possibility of being shot if deemed to be necessary to carry out the arrest. This calls into question the rules of engagement. Is the suspect a speeder or wanted for murder.

    This is the business end of government. Government governs. With a velvet glove or an iron fist. The choice is yours when confronted by one of the governments representatives.

    And guess what. The police exist to protect the criminal class. Along with their fellow law enforcers in the legal profession. Without criminals the only law enforcement necessary is Sheriff Andy and his trusty deputy, Barney. And then only on alternate Thursdays. Follow the money.

    Try doing away with the police and you might arouse the vigilante in the local populace. Generally speaking, not a good idea.

  236. noname27 says: • Website
    @Hibernian

    So you’re attempting to defend an insignificant minority of papist Scotsmen. What’s your point?

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  237. @Linh Dinh

    I think the country has become to touchy and angry that we have easily-triggered people who can’t even tell friends from foes, but that’s the surest way to defeat, personally and collectively.

    Probably just a small, noisy group of people who are mad at the world. Encouraged and amplified by the media, in search of any and all stinky stuff that attracts newsjunkies. Would antbody know anything about George Floyd if the media had not presented it as a never ending flood of reportage for weeks. On every channel. No.

    Most people are too busy trying to decide what to wear to work tomorrow, and other seriously important things than to be concerned with news reportage. It fades quickly. What was the name of that guy who asked, “Can’t we all just get along?” I forget.

  238. Sparkon says:

    None of us had any control over any of the factors surrounding our births into this world. We do not choose our parents, their circumstances, religious beliefs, or where and when we are born. All of those factors were entirely out of our control.

    All of us have to play with the hands we are dealt, and just as we have no control over the circumstances of our births, we have little to no control over the other players in the game. If they are bad people, your best option is to GTFO.

    Lupus is a horrible disease. I don’t know how much Flannery O’Connor was suffering from the affliction over the 12 years before her death, but it couldn’t have given her much of a rosy outlook. Lupus is an auto-immune disease, like rheumatoid arthritis, but the cause of lupus remains unknown.

    Turning the page to something a little easier on the eyes, while prowling around YouTube, I recently discovered a tall, beautiful, really eye-popping Hollywood star from the ’50s whom I’d never seen before, more gorgeous than the blonde bombshells of the day, and sporting the longest, best looking, most languid set of legs ever to grace Tinsel Town.

    Here is stunning B-move bad girl Beverly Michaels with an early scene from Wicked Woman (1953):

    And the whole flick here:

  239. One-off says:
    @Linh Dinh

    I still suspect at least some of the responses result from a justifiable paranoia by White Southerners but you could be right. You definitely are correct about the inate decency of White Southerners, particularly the poor and working class and lower middle classes

    As for your anecdote, I have seen that very personally. Let me preface this predates Wokeism, when you could ask someone their ethnicity or place of origin without being deemed filled with racial hatred and animus.

    I was educated in Hawaii and most of my closest friends there were multi-generational Asian-Americans, primarily Japanese but some Chinese and Filipino mutts. Once I returned home several would visit with me or meet up with me in my native South. Almost to a person they feared physical and verbal abuse. Nothing even remotely close happened, of course. Several were asked their ethnicity and origin a few times, but no offense was intended and no offense was taken given people were more sane then.

    So even decades ago the propaganda against Southerners, a substantial percentage churned out by Jews, was intense and effective. It is worse now. Before the pandemic I spent several weeks in Hawaii with these same friends and encountered a new hostility from locals even before my accent was detected, which made things only worse. My friends were embarrassed. We are on the cusp of even uglier anti-White nastiness.

    Again, a major fan and it was a pleasure and honor to interact with you.

  240. Trinity says:

    Southerners ways are different than the average person from the Mid-Atlantic and they damn sure don’t act like those New England assholes but they are not exactly the saints some of these commenters are painting them to be. I have already mentioned Phenix City, Alabama that was right across the state line from Columbus, Georgia. Then you had McNairy County, Tennessee from the movie, “Walking Tall” starring Joe Don Baker. NO, the Rock did not play in the original.

    There are lots of seedy little towns out there, one IMO is Council Bluffs, Iowa. Hell, at one time there was a chapter of the Outlaws motorcycle gang in Albany, Georgia. I used to see some of them hang out in a place called, “Joe’s Cellar.” You wanna talk about a dive. You had to walk down a flight of stairs to get into the place. The joint had 2 strippers named, “Gigi” and “Stara”, stank to high heaven, but the DJ named Vaughn must have had every record from AC/DC to Lawrence Welk. You wanna talk about a surreal moment, sitting back and sipping a cold one in this juke joint and listening to “Diary” by Bread. haha. That song was so out of place in a dump like this, but but like I say, Vaughn would play anything.

    Cue: Baby Hold On To Me by Eddie Money. That seemed to be one of the strippers, “Stara’s” favorite tunes to dance to, yep, you could see one dance every 2 or 3 hours. haha. “Gigi” was partial to “Cocaine” by Eric Clapton.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  241. @Trinity

    I don’t know about the “Kennedy family” being part of this murderous group, since the ones that got offed were actually among the rare politicians that were really concerned about the country. Their personal lives I can’t comment on, but that is not my concern. If JFK and RFK had been anything on the order of the horrifying (and I do not use that word lightly, I know of whom I speak) Bushes, Clintons, Obamas, Fords and LBJs, they would not have been murdered.

  242. Trinity says:

    To be honest some of these Southerners are holier than thou posts sound JEWY. I picked up a book for the helluva of it out of the public library, no way in hell do I waste money on trash printed by Jew publishing companies. This one is titled, “And The Dead Shall Rise” by Steve Oney. It is about the Leo Frank murder of Mary Phagan. Anyhow while skimming through this one, I noticed some passage written by someone back then about even the Jews, the great people that they are, are capable of committing crimes just like the White man and the Black man. ROTFLMMFWAO at that one. I think I will start reading it today, I am expecting the same old the Jew dindu nuffin story line but maybe I will be surprised.

    White Southerners are far from perfect and so are Yankees, and MOST DEFINITELY the average Jew is even more sinful than the average White Southerner or average White Yankee ever thought about being. The Jew vs. the negro? Well, that there is a close one.

    • Replies: @Ron Unz
  243. @Peter Akuleyev

    Conservatives? No, I don’t think so. You must have them confused with Liberals.

  244. Ron Unz says:
    @Trinity

    This one is titled, “And The Dead Shall Rise” by Steve Oney. It is about the Leo Frank murder of Mary Phagan. Anyhow while skimming through this one, I noticed some passage written by someone back then about even the Jews, the great people that they are, are capable of committing crimes just like the White man and the Black man. ROTFLMMFWAO at that one. I think I will start reading it today, I am expecting the same old the Jew dindu nuffin story line but maybe I will be surprised.

    Oney’s an experienced journalist and a pretty good writer, but I think it’s clear that his book was (directly or indirectly) orchestrated by the ADL and other Jewish groups as a tool in their hundred-year campaign to reverse the Leo Frank verdict, which has a pretty good chance of eventually succeeding.

    Perhaps by coincidence, Oney also moved out to Los Angeles and sold his book to Hollywood, where it became the basis of a documentary film. There’s not the slightest doubt that Frank was actually guilty, and if Oney had been honest on that matter, I doubt he would have gotten the Hollywood sale.

    Meanwhile, the ADL pressured Amazon into banning a vastly superior scholarly work that summarizes the enormous evidence for Frank’s guilt.

    Anyone interested in these matters should take a look at my long 2018 article on the subject:

    https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-the-adl-in-american-society/#the-accounts-of-leonard-dinnerstein-and-steve-oney

    • Thanks: Trinity, Iris
    • Replies: @One-off
  245. I’d started Wise Blood a few hours before this thread commenced. Now I have finished it. It’s a work of great genius that will long be studied and praised. And, as art, it’s more than the sum of its parts, more than its intellectual or sociological themes. It successfully evokes the southern protestant small town of the fifties similar to my own. It attempts to debunk nihilism by trying to show that only Jesus will do. All the characters are rats, and without any relevance to the plot, they hate foreigners, negros, and papists. I have to wonder whether these ignorant and depraved southern sinners are unredeemed just because they are not saved by O’Connor’s true religion, Catholicism, a bigotry in its own right. My query could be apt, but at the same time not pertinent to the artistic value of the novel.

  246. One-off says:
    @Ron Unz

    I read that at the time along with the NOI analysis, which was solid. Of all the things you have written, exposing the fraud that gave rise to the ADL probably put the largest target on your back. Given the racial dimension, though, this will prove a difficult history to distort so I’m not as certain it can be successfuly rewriten. NOI’s point about the historic importance of the unsuccessful attempt ls to frame a black guy to exculpate Frank is so solid I do not think this history can be rewritten. We will see.

    On the other hand, the NOI was quite right that Jewiash prominence in the Southern aristocracy and the Confederacy has all but been erased and the Frank case was the vehicle to achieve the memoryhole, so I cannot completely discount it can be done again. Still, it is difficult I n an age of victim hierarchies to unfairly malign the apex victim

    Thanks for the reminder and link. It pairs quite well with Linh’s essay and the comments.

  247. @Trinity

    Lifelong American Expat & Rustbelt Refugee Questions

    1) Why did primitive desert dwellers in the Middle East build a Dubai & maintain better infrastructures, safer & cleaner streets, more efficient public transport, lower crime & a more impressive skyline in Dubai or other UAE countries than Jethro did.

    2) Which UAE/Dub ai Emirate’s sister is a “Methany” like Jethro’s throwing chimpouts in Wal-Mart?

    3) Why do smaller cities in the Bible Belt & South look like freaking third world countries & the Midwest roads have huge potholes & even the Detroit airport has potholes on the runway while Dubai & other Arab cities have perfect roads, state-of-the-art transportation & almost zero crime?

    [MORE]

    4) If Jewish-Americans are primitives why are they able to maintain beautiful upscale neighborhoods in places like Scarsdale or Beverly Hills with zero crime & 3 million dollar houses while Gentiles in the South & Midwest live in squalor & in sagging old one-story wood-and-brick houses in cities where that are collapsing? How are Jewish-Americans generally able to make more money than Gentiles? Why is the rate of arrest in their neighborhoods so low while the “smokies” in the sticks always have to arrest some Methany in the Wal-Mart parking lot or Cleetus for operating a pill mill or selling meth.

    5) I lived around poor whites in low-cost “efficiency apartments” in the the rustbelt & Phoenix. Why do you see so many single mothers? Why is their teen pregnancy? Why do they go to prison for stupid minor crimes like possession of a controlled substance while driving drunk? Why do they always end up wracking up a series of minor charges?

    6) Black gold? Why is Dubai-which has little oil left-able to invest it in public works while in oil rich cities like Dallas there is poverty?

    7) As far as blue bloods are concerned, which English aristocratic families do these people spring from?

    8) Most of the wealth in the US North is controlled by the grandchildren of immigrants. German-Americans, Italians, Irish. What do these people have to do with Britain? How is being descended from a very minor English aristocrat relevant? Flannery O’Connor was Catholic & her parents were from Ireland, for example.

    9) Is some dive bar where Electric Avenue is blaring actually equal to the Dubai skyline? Good Gosh…we’re gonna rock down to…ELECTRIC AVENUE

    10) Why aren’t the daughters of Emirate citizens in Dubai coke-whore strippers? I knew many as a young man in the rust-belt-is this the height of civilization?

    11) Why were the Irish, Jews, Slavs & Germans of the North able to produce the Donald Trumps, Martha Stewarts, Flannery O’Connors etc. white the British former colonies of the South produce Gigi’s who dance nude in dive strip bars owned by MC gangs & have a child from a previous relationship & will sleep with anyone who offers them a line of their sweet sweet candy dancing to the strains of “WE GONNA ROCK DOWN TO ELECTRIC AVENUE”…

    NB I recall that during the Wonderland Murders when John Holmes was testifying against Palestinian club owner Eddie Nash he admitted that he & Eddie had no toilet paper in their bachelor’s pad because they would bring strippers from the club over & offer them cocaine if they licked their anuses clean…That is a case of Eddie Nash an Arab criminal comes to the USA & exploits poor whites isn’t it?

    12) As a USA expat from the Rust Belt who knew was “saved” by Dubai from a lifetime on the drab blue-collar margins of USA society with its Cholo gangsters, meth-addicted lunatics, coke whore strippers, teen mothers, whiggers, Methany’s & all the other unfettered urban underclass…exactly how is this the height of civilization? Why doesn’t Dubai have them?

    13) If Ii told the average person they could walk through Dubai at 1 am on a dark street or Atlanta…they are going to choose Dubai, aren’t they? So why then do the primitive desert-dwellers of Arabia need to be saved by us?

    • Replies: @anon
    , @HallParvey
  248. @Richard B

    The point is Americans are not a real people, not even WASPs. They are rootless cosmopolitans or rootless provincials.

    The point is that rootless cosmopolitans and rootless provincials are real people.

    There is a semantic difference between people and a people. You apparently missed it.

  249. @Polistra

    ‘…’Faulkner had his Snopes (bad white) and his Lucius Beauchamp (noble Negro)…’ ‘

    ‘That was my first thought reading this essay. O’Connor was one of many, and they all had the same thing in common: white people evil, black people good. Yes, exceptions here and there, but that’s the over-arching theme and as we see, it’s been going on a very long time…’

    Meh. I recently read The Sound and the Fury, and I think the black characters in there are convincing. Equally important, they’re not all saints. Some are downright vicious — as blacks often are.

    Faulkner wrote Sound around 1930, give or take. In 1930, in Mississippi, black emancipation wasn’t happening — not just yet. And when I think about my own attitude, while blacks themselves are pretty awful, a great deal of my hostility stems not from who they are so much as from the lies about them I am constantly bombarded with.

    Perhaps Faulkner, writing in an era when one could still see blacks for what they were, could view them with less animus. Faulkner’s blacks are what they really are — or would be, if we treated them as their nature merits. It’s like the family dog. He’s really pretty cool. That’ll change if you start letting him climb on the table if he smells something good and get away with nipping you if you interfere.

  250. noname27 says: • Website
    @Hibernian

    My point was in my original post about the demonic influences of popery.

    • Replies: @Hibernian
  251. anon[163] • Disclaimer says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    this “jeff stryker” clown is just another hate-filled anti-white:

    https://www.unz.com/article/the-jewish-hand-in-the-world-wars-part-1/?showcomments#comment-2561429

    [MORE]

    Jeff Stryker says:
    October 8, 2018 at 1:41 pm GMT • 2.6 years ago • 100 Words ↑

    WHITE TRASHNATIONALIST MANIFESTO

    1. Must have working poor parents but better if broken home or out-of-wedlock birth.

    2 No actual ethnic identity. Northern urban whites have their hyphenated heritage. But W.T. don’t.

    3. Attend rough public high schools-pummeled by Non-Asian minorities.

    4. Eschew college.

    5. Get into drugs young. You must be smoking pot by 14.

    6. Hypersexualized from molestation.

    7. Have not traveled or lived in other countries. Completely unworldly.

    8. Must reproduce young. Should have at least one kid by 22.

    9. Should either be divorced or out-of-wedlock birth.

    10. Must be heavy drinker and wrack up a series of minor charges.

    • Replies: @Trinity
  252. @Jeff Stryker

    Why…..

    The simple answer, and probably the most accurate, is personal freedom.

  253. @stevennonemaker88

    Being all wise and powerful, I would think God would have a better solution. Allow people to suffer the consequences of their choices, but prevent our very bodies and nature from killing us. I would be interested in what others think on this, because I do not have a good answer.

    Your question is one that has haunted religious people for a very long time. Unfortunately it cannot be answered from inside any religion. Especially not Christianity. Christianity promises to take care of people who believe and are baptized. It promises an eternal life of leisure and pleasant worship following death. Indeed, death is only a doorway into an eternity of blissful rest.

    When you look it from outside several possibilities become evident. There is of course the atheist belief that no God exists. We will skip over that one. There is the possibility that God, Creator of the universe, is ignorant of the fact that humanity exists. After all, the universe is a big place. And humanity, the earth we live on, the sun that keeps us warm, our galaxy are all infinitesimally small when considering the size of the universe. And the God that can create the universe is considerably larger than that.

    There is also the possibility that God is simply observing and does not want to interfere in whatever happens on earth, both the good and the evil. (This brings us to the problem of considering good and evil. Good and evil depend on the observer. The pride of lions killing a wildebeest in order to eat have one viewpoint. The wildebeest has another. Their definitions of good and evil are completely opposite.)

    God’s purposes are beyond the understanding of any human. The problem is that humanity, human beings, want to be close to God. We want God to look like a human. We want God to have the same characteristics as a human. Arms, legs. A beard. One vision of God in the human eye can be found on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel in Rome. Or a statue of Zeus in Greece. Or Thor.

    This is in no way derogatory of humanity. One of the characteristics of human beings is the ability to fantasize. But making God look like an octopus is probably out of the question for religious people. Even a burning bush is suspect.

    So why does God look the other way when evil befalls a human being. Each of us has to accept the fact that God has a different viewpoint. Evil in the eye of the human is not necessarily evil in the eye of God. Begging God for a relief from pain is perfectly acceptable. If it helps, do it.

    In the Bible, Old Testament, God did not rush to the aid of his servant Job. He allowed Job to suffer terrible misery before he did anything. For the Christian, this is the answer to the question. His will, however distasteful, be done.

  254. Hibernian says:
    @noname27

    Which you never supported. The 1840s were 180 years ago.

    • Replies: @noname27
  255. Trinity says:
    @anon

    He poses the same question over and over and over on multiple threads. One poster said that the dude was either a Jew or a Jew hybrid. And as I have already posted and everyone knows, incest is far more common in the Middle East whether Jew or Arab than in Appalachia. MOST of the inbreeding fiction about hillbillies comes from the (((usual suspects))) projecting their sins and disgusting habits on people they hate.

    I guess he thinks people like Joel Steinberg and Hedda Nussbaum did not live like trash. IF you don’t know the story do a search on this one. This happened when I was in NYC. What a trashy pair. I can’t think of a ghetto rat who lived a more trashier and disgusting lifestyle. And then we had the Jewish girl who was killed by Robert Chambers during this same time period. I mean she was out with some dude walking in Central Park in the middle of the night? Was she on drugs or stoned?

    I really don’t get the Jew hatred for White Southerners. Sheesh, this demographic is notoriously pro-Jew and pro-Israel. They, the White Southerners, hate (((Hollywood))) and White Southern Christians hate (((pornography))) but when you tell them who is behind it all, they just stare at you or say well, the Jews in Israel or different than the Jews here. WHAT????

    He then brings up Atlanta not being safe. Well, Hell’s Bells, we all know why Atlanta isn’t safe to walk at night. When my parents first moved to Baltimore in the mid 1950s, you could actually walk in most of the city and feel safe. The million dollar question is why did that one change? Oh, I know because Baltimore is a democrat run city, just ask Pawn Vanity and Candace Owens. My friend who I mentioned earlier had a mother who came to Brooklyn from Norway and she felt safe back in the 1950s. What happened?

    Arabs? Oh, man give me a break. I knew some Muslim dude that was married and he would go out to strip joints all the time and tell his wife he was working over. So spare me that joke of a story.

    I have no desire to see Dubai or any other sand castle in the Middle East. That has to be the gawd awful most ugliest part of the world IMO. I guess if you are born in that barren sand pit, you would feel at home, but not my cup of tea. No telling what goes on behind the scenes over there. First world lifestyle maybe, but still a caveman mentality. Money doesn’t change the mindset of anyone, matter of fact it probably makes it more pronounced.

  256. Trinity says:

    Lest we forget that story that came out of Lakewood, New Jersey involving all those Jews and welfare fraud. haha.

    Are these the people who talk about “white trash?”

  257. noname27 says: • Website
    @Hibernian

    “You know, I’m an integrationist by principle & a segregationist by taste anyway. I don’t like negroes. They all give me a pain and the more of them I see, the less and less I like them. Particularly the new kind.”

    I wonder how much the demons of popery influenced her thinking and created such double mindedness.

    My original post, so I fail to see what your latest post has to do with it.

  258. Manfrog says:
    @Bardon Kaldian

    WWII: Germans knew Slavs could endure more suffering than, say, the French or Dutch because Slavs are less human.

  259. @xyzxy

    But most are offering opinions when not asked. Is there a law against it? A rule? Nope.

  260. @Bardon Kaldian

    I agree completely with your thoughtful post, as it covers a problem that had long bothered me while living in the US. As the son of European immigrants, I was always conscious of the fact that the USAns lacked a continuous link with the past. I would look out on the long rows of sycamores, which had once marked an Indian trail, and think: Why did they not at least allow this link with the past to survive? Even the Spanish seemed to have realized, in immediately embracing miscegenation as a way to create more subjects for the crown, that they needed to merge with the native populations to legitimize their rule. But not the Anglos and Dutch settling North American. For them, the natives were the devil. They had to be eliminated. And now their ghosts are restless, and the land is in turmoil.

    I have since moved to France, where the French are doing their damnedest to destroy their own links with the past. Luckily, many of the physical manifestations of this link–e.g. the beautiful medieval churches–still stand. And at least I, and a few others, are here to love and appreciate them.

  261. Ping Pong says:

    See the book ‘A Thousand-Mile Walk to the Gulf’ by John Muir. As he walked through the South right after the end of the Civil War he encountered many free blacks. He describes them without any derision, distain or sense of inequality. The opposite. Generally they were kind to him. It is so interesting to compare what was going on with recently freed blacks during Muir’s time to attitudes today. Also, the book is fun to read.

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