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I recently commented on the UK report “Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities”, which dared to suggest that systemic racism was not the major cause of race differences in Britain. The wave of criticism continues. One line of attack is that the Commission did not give sufficient weight to studies which show that racial minorities are not invited for job interviews at the same rate as locals. In fact, the commissioners did discuss the issue, and are in favour of name-blind job applications. They discuss UK research on this matter at page 121 in the report, and to their credit they do not regard the results as conclusive of widespread bias. However, the methods do seem to indicate bias, so I thought I would look at the conventional way of researching the issue of racial discrimination in job applications, and contrast it with anonymous job applications.

To see whether racial discrimination exists, researchers send the same CV to employers with the same level of qualifications but different names attached, to see if the foreign-sounding names lead to a greater degree of rejection. They often find that to be the case.

http://csi.nuff.ox.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Are-employers-in-Britain-discriminating-against-ethnic-minorities_final.pdf

Other alterations are carried out on these identical CVs to see whether other aspects, like religion, country of origin and so on are also a cause of rejection. The different rejection rates are then cited as evidence of racism. That might be the case, but there are other possible explanations.

Is there anything wrong with this method?

One thing: it assumes that different racial or religious group members write CVs which are just as good as anyone else. What if one group is over-confident, and boasts in a way which turns off employers? The effects of that boasting would not show up with this method. What if one group is not very organised, and their CVs reveal that? Again, that would not be detected if the standard CV method is used. Indeed, the “standard CV” method is designed to keep all those real-life effects out of the picture.

Does putting a foreign-sounding name on a standard CV really mean that applicants are rejected unfairly? Not quite. Employers may have actually found that some groups make poor employees. They may have learned that qualifications from some universities give an exaggerated picture of skills. They may want to take a chance with a particular minority, but have found that they have been disappointed with the candidates they chose. Furthermore, depending on the laws of the land, they may find that minorities are better placed in law to sue employers for discrimination than would be the case for majority locals. The latter cannot easily claim racial discrimination against them, and will be judged simply by their work record. A minority candidate, plausibly or implausibly, can claim that he was not treated fairly, not given chances open to others, not promoted as quickly as others, and so on.

Is there a better method of judging whether applicants are subject to racial bias from employers? Of course. Get people from the relevant minority groups to write actual job applications themselves, and then send them in to different employers under different names or anonymously, to see whether the employers are responding to the names or to the actual quality of the applications. This technique is usually called anonymous application procedures (AAP) and it is intended to prevent racial bias against women and minority candidates.

Åslund, O., & Skans, O. N. (2012). Do Anonymous Job Application Procedures Level the Playing Field? ILR Review, 65(1), 82–107. doi:10.1177/001979391206500105

This was a large-scale study of a trial of anonymous applications to local authority positions in Sweden. Crucially “Information on schools/universities was explicitly prohibited since it would reveal the ethnicity of many immigrant applicants.” Of course, it would remove any data about the quality of education received, and its relevance to the skills required in the advertised jobs. Educational standards, as shown by PISA type studies, differ considerably in different countries, and are usually lower than Western standards. Real data will be lost here.

The authors found that anonymous application procedures led to more interviews than conventional applications which disclosed sex and race. However, once the applicants from the anonymous method got to the interview stage, they did not do so well.

For women, the results concur with Goldin and Rouse’s (2000) finding of a positive effect on the final outcome of anonymous hiring procedures. However, we fail to find a corresponding effect for the non-Western applicants. In fact, the job offer differentials relative to other applicants are nearly identical under the different regimes. Although the statistical uncertainty is substantial, the results, if taken at face value, mean that the positive effects on interview offers are undone once origin, personal traits, and full credentials are disclosed.

One interpretation is that, once the mask of anonymity is taken away, then prejudicial attitudes come into play at interview. Another interpretation is that in a wide-ranging interview the minority candidates perform poorly, and lack the wider skills required. The authors lean to the first interpretation, but do mention that minorities may lack the “social capital” possessed by native Swedes. In my view the lack of school data in the anonymous applications could have been a big factor in later poor performance at interview, where candidates must think on their feet about job-related demands and problems.

Krause, A., Rinne, U. & Zimmermann, K.F. Anonymous job applications in Europe. IZA J Labor Stud 1, 5 (2012). https://doi.org/10.1186/2193-9012-1-5 This is a review of European experience with anonymous job applications.

The French government initiated an experiment in 2010 and 2011 which was implemented by the French public employment service. It involved about 1,000 firms in eight local labor markets and it lasted in total for about ten months (Behaghel et al., 2011). The experiments’ main findings can be summarized as follows. First, women benefit from higher callback rates with anonymous job applications—at least if they compete with male applicants for a job. However, for roughly half of the vacancies included in the experiment only female candidates or only male candidates applied. Second, migrants and residents of deprived neighborhoods suffer from anonymous job applications. Their callback rates are lower with anonymous job applications than with standard applications.

Why do minorities suffer when applications are anonymous? They should shine in such circumstances. The answer seems to lie in them not getting a sympathetic interpretation of their circumstances and their lower scholastic and occupational attainments:

Besides, context-specific information may be interpreted differently if information about the identity of the candidate is not available—and this can result in disadvantages for the applicant. For example, if recruiters are not aware of the applicant’s family situation, migration background or disadvantaged neighborhood, this information cannot be taken into account to explain, e.g., below-average education outcomes, labor market experience or language skills.

Paradoxically, in Europe a migrant may get the benefit of the doubt for low school grades, which would not be accorded to locals.

In the Netherlands, two experiments took place in the public administration of one major Dutch city in 2006 and 2007. The experiments focus on ethnic minorities. More specifically, a distinction is made between applicants with and without foreign (i.e., non-Western) sounding names.

Bøg and Kranendonk (2011) emphasize in their study the lower callback rates for minority candidates with standard applications, but their analysis also reveals that these differences disappear with anonymous job applications. With regards to job offers, however, the authors do not detect any differences between minority and majority candidates—irrespective of whether or not their resumes are treated anonymously. This indicates that even with standard applications, discrimination against minorities in interview invitations disappears at the job offer stage.

They also review a more detailed experiment in Germany.

Both, the results of the various European experiments and of the German experiment predominantly show that anonymous job applications can lead to the desired effect of increasing the interview invitation probabilities of disadvantaged groups. However, there are indications for exactly the opposite effect, namely that anonymity prevents employers from favoring minority applicants. In particular, our analysis of the heterogeneous data from the German experiment shows that the initial situation is crucial. Three different conditions can initially exist: discrimination, affirmative action, and equality of opportunity. Not surprisingly, the effects of anonymous job applications are as heterogeneous as the initial situation to be changed. This result is in line with findings from the various European experiments. It often appears that the introduction of anonymous job applications is beneficial for a particular minority group in a given experiment, whereas another minority group does not benefit to the same extent—although the setting is the same.

A study in Australia comes to similar conclusions, and shows that the effects of anonymous job applications partly depend on whether employers have a prior disposition to see women or minorities unfavourably. If they don’t, then anonymous applications can stop those with positive attitudes from implementing them via affirmative action (which is itself a bias, I think).

https://behaviouraleconomics.pmc.gov.au/sites/default/files/projects/unconscious-bias.pdf

The authors explain how they set up their research project (page 9):

There are many potentially irrelevant characteristics that could be screened out from reviewers in order to remove biases. Besides gender, race or ethnic status, we might also consider any information about age, health status or conditions, disability, sexual orientation, political views, and socioeconomic status (reflected for instance, by address and education background).

Now let us put that into clear text: “There are many potentially relevant characteristics which employers would like to know about: gender, race, age, health, disability, sexual orientation, politics and economic success, so as to reduce their risks when hiring someone. They want to choose whom to hire. We are here to stop them”.

The researchers found that, when actual names were used, assessors were slightly more, not less, likely to employ women and minority candidates. There was a 6% advantage for women when people could show their names, and also an advantage for minorities when they could reveal their names, but not significantly so. One reason is that the reviewers were very much in favour of short-listing the indigenous Australian women (up 22%).

To my mind this shows that the reviewers who volunteered to participate in this study about bias were probably those who were biased in favour of women and minorities. At the very least, there was no strong support for anonymous applications, it would seem.

Overall, the results indicate the need for caution when moving towards ’blind’ recruitment processes in the Australian Public Service, as de-identification may frustrate efforts aimed at promoting diversity.

One of the pleasures of research is that an investigation of bias against immigrants can reveal biases in favour of immigrants.

If we look at employment with a wider perspective, here is a little thought experiment. Imagine a world in which employers recruited the candidates they wanted to employ. In such a world, employers would compete for the best candidates, and would use every single datum to help them make good decisions. If employers made any false positive mistakes, they would burden themselves with failures of selection (under-performance, costs of further training, costs of terminating contracts, and massive opportunity costs). If they made false negative mistakes, they would miss out on superb performers, and would let rivals pick them up at favourable prices, eventually risking their own company’s success in the market place.

In seeking the most suitable employees, employers would certainly look at group differences, because when there are big differences in ability and behaviour then those affect the interpretation placed on all the measures, including IQ measures. The reason is that if you set a cut-off of say IQ 120 for your recruits then you must expect that some of the results will have a chance element to them. Actual scores can be conceived of as being composed of a true score (one which could be determined by several different tests taken over a period of time) and a chance element, corresponding to luck. Not only can candidates select which achievements to talk about (all of which may have a luck element) but in some circumstances they can give results from re-examinations. Employers would like a margin of safety to guard against flukes.

Consider 3 candidates, all with an achieved score of IQ 120, but drawn from three different genetic groups A, B, C which have mean IQs of 110, 100 and 85 respectively.

If drawn from Group A of mean IQ 110, then 25.24% are above that level. Big margin of safety. The person’s score is very unlikely to be a fluke, so he is safe to hire, and 4 times safer than a Group B hire.

If drawn from Group B of mean IQ 100 then 9.12% of the group above that level. Fluke unlikely, so pretty safe. 9 times safer than a Group C person.

If drawn from Group C of mean IQ 85 then only 1% of that group above that level. Risky. Not much margin of safety.

Incidentally, if the standard deviation for Group C is not 15 but 13, then there will be only 0.35% above the IQ 120 cut-off and it will be 25 times safer to pick someone of IQ 120 from Group B.

Summary

A final observation is that the old standby, identical CVs with different names attached, seems to confirm biases which account for different outcomes in occupational success. On closer examination, that technique adopts the null hypothesis that different racial groups are the same in ability and employment potential, but employer prejudice blights their prospects. Employers already know that groups differ, but aren’t allowed to make use of that fact, which would considerably simplify their hiring processes. In fact, in some cases recruiters are in favour of affirmative action, so their preference for that approach is thwarted by anonymous applications. On further examination, granting anonymity to actual job applications reveals that the real crunch often comes at interview.

Fascinating, that a technique intended to detect bias in others reveals an unconscious bias in the researchers, in the form of a persistent blank-slatism. Whatever the actual results, these researchers keep wanting to assume that there are no group differences.

There should be a compulsory course for all researchers, to warn them about the dangers of this egregious bias bias.

 
• Category: Science • Tags: Antiracism, Britain, Political Correctness 
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  1. dearieme says:

    I used to do university admissions. I don’t remember my having strong feelings about race or sex. Admittedly, choosing students for admission into physical sciences courses doesn’t involve many dealings with the most problematic racial group. Be that as it may, if there was persuasive evidence that the candidate would do well I’d make an offer of admission.

    I remember only a few cases well. One was a girl: her headmaster wrote to say that we should admit her if at all possible because her examination results hadn’t represented her true abilities. In the autumn of her last year at school her mother had been diagnosed with late stage cancer, her father had walked out, and my applicant had been left to run the household and look after her younger siblings. I interviewed her; her headmaster was right. We took her.

    Another was a male; his headmaster wrote to say he was a ne’er do well, a criminal who had successfully evaded arrest, and would prove to be nothing but trouble. We’d be mad to admit him. Why would I believe that headmaster? Because he was the same Head who appeared in the paragraph above.

    And so it went on. A bright boy who interviewed well and whom I would happily have admitted but for one defect – he hadn’t studied Physics at school. Neither he nor his teachers appeared to have absorbed our entrance requirements. Then there was the lad for whom I strongly recommended admission. My fellow interviewer was against admission, simply because it had emerged in the interview that his parents took The Daily Telegraph. (What should one do about a fellow interviewer who admitted to such prejudice? Punch him on the snoot?)

    So there you are. I absolve myself from all charges of racism and sexism, but admit that some interviewers – well, one – was guilty of political prejudice. Clearly it is the duty of universities to ban Lefties from making admission decisions.

    Appointing to jobs seemed easier to me – usually there wouldn’t be many candidates who seemed likely to thrive with us; often one candidate would stick out as by far the best. I admit that I was disappointed that three colleagues turned out to be biased against women. But even they didn’t seem to harbour racial prejudice, unless you count the chap who plain didn’t like foreigners. That’s xenophobia not racism. He was also one of the ones who didn’t much like women. It seemed to be particularly nubile women he disliked. I think he’s one for you to analyse, doc.

    • Replies: @LondonBob
    , @anon
  2. Bartolo says:

    Fuck all these arguments. If you try to argue with them, you have lost already. Private employers should be able to hire whoever they want. Just as private tech companies can kick out whoever they like from their platforms and banks can deny private individuals a bank account.

  3. meamjojo says:

    Ive long felt that job resumes should be legally limited to 10 years, that a fake name should be used and that the interviews should be held in such a way that those interviewing could not see the applicant.

    This would go a long way to eliminating hiring bias due to age or looks.

    • Disagree: gleongelpi
    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  4. joe2.5 says:

    Just wondering at the type and level of jobs to which anonymized CVs could conceivably apply. All jobs where publications are the main criterion would be automatically excluded.
    Now, the degree and direction of biases would almost certainly vary according to the job.
    There’s like a major snag there.

    • Replies: @threestars
  5. @meamjojo

    As a sometime hiring manager or small employer, I quite like to look for participation in Scouts, Guides and other uniformed youth organizations, especially after age 13. Always a sign of diligence and teamwork.

  6. ruralguy says:

    Hiring is a lot more complex and constrained, than this writeup suggests.

    In stacks of resumes that I used to review, I found almost all applicants exaggerate or lie. That was very problematic, because once you hire a person, it’s hard to get rid of them, even with “at-will” employment. That’s actually why I did so much outsourcing of labor, to foreign job shops or companies. It’s easier to contract with foreign job-shops to get the skill you need, than to risk employing an American. It’s a shame, because this lying by applicants spoils the chances for many honest Americans. Because those job shops are in fierce competition with each, they deliver exactly what you want. I was always impressed with their screening of applicants. If I say I want a person with X degree and Y and Z skills, they usually deliver a perfect engineer for the job, in contrast with my American hires, which were always at best 50:50. I could also terminate them immediately, unlike in the U.S. Many foreign job shops mistreat their employees, far beyond what you can expect of in American labor. In the U.S., laws protect labor. Not in most other countries. Essentially, it is slave labor, although they are paid well, at least in their currency.

    When I hired locally, I tended to select the best person for the job, regardless of race, even though I personally disfavored many races. I had to do this, because I was responsible for ensuring the project succeeded. It’s not easy running a project that falls behind schedules and costs, so life is much easier having the right person do the job. Projects can devolve into chaos with even just one bad hire. Yet, if the company does any work with the government, they are required through their contracts to ensure racial quotes and a drug free encironment are met, throughout the company, not just with the particular government contract. It’s silly of the government to impose this, because the work itself compels the best hires.

    So, all in all, the hiring is usually stacked in favor of foreigners and nonwhites.

  7. dearieme says:

    I remember a conversation from my days in NZ. An employer told me he had a Middle Eastern engineer, a competent and likeable chap. Trouble was, he couldn’t promote him to an existing vacancy.

    Why not? Because in the promoted position he’d be in charge of a group of NZ working men whose customs and expectations he didn’t understand. He’d try to order them about in the peremptory way that was natural in Egypt but which would only lead to trouble in NZ.

    Promotion to an important position in that small firm was too risky.

    • Replies: @ruralguy
  8. ruralguy says:
    @dearieme

    I was surprised to read your description of Middle Eastern engineers, held by your employer, because it matched my view exactly. On the surface, the Middle Eastern engineers that I’ve know seem likeable, but they all seem to have social rules and managing styles that cause much conflicts.

  9. Third world employees are like special needs children.

    Muslims like to make frivolous demands such as prayer rooms, toilets which don’t face Mecca, not handling haram products and prefer gender segregation.

    Sikhs insist on carrying dangerous ceremonial daggers and wearing turbans rather than protective helmets. With blacks instructions have to be dummyproof and discipline can be a challenge plus this often leads to lethal “minority rage”.

    Certain jobs are also ideal for specific groups. Try getting Japanese tourists to revisit medieval reenactments with sub-Saharan Africans and mixed race persons posing as royalty.

    A commenter said something profound elsewhere. The self-righteous ruling class thought it could handle race relations better than Americans when it opened the borders

  10. TG says:

    OK fine. But here’s another angle.

    The answer to all of this nonsense it to have a tight labor market. Let employers be desperate to find qualified applicants. In this case, employers who are open minded and objective about recruiting talent will win and more closed-minded employers – including those who both favor and disfavor so-called ‘minorities’ – will fail. Supply and demand, duh.

    But a tight labor market means high wages for workers and low profits for the elites, so this will never do. So flood the market for labor, demand that people all have seven kids each, if that fails replace them with people who will, let there be more people than jobs, and have the squabbling commence!

    In a flooded labor market employers are free to discriminate based on any criteria at all, because there are so many applicants. You only want to hire bald left-handers? No worries if there are 1000 desperate people competing for every job. Supply and demand!

    But the profits will flow, so it’s all good.

  11. LondonBob says:
    @dearieme

    My uncle did admissions at Cambridge and he actively discriminated against Public School boys, despite being one himself. He was actually involved in hiring that black woman to be the Master at Christ’s College. Similarly at Citi it was very obvious any remotely competent black was promoted way beyond there competency, although that was largely limited to back and middle office roles.

    Still the ONS dataset is A09, Labour Market status by ethnic group, is testament to white folks ingenuity to overcome such discrimination and the free market at work.

    • Replies: @dearieme
  12. dearieme says:
    @LondonBob

    Suppose you are doing admissions for a Cambridge college. Your college has an agreed number of places for the Natural Sciences tripos. It has a somewhat more flexible division of that number between candidates who are most interested in Physics, or Chemistry, or Biochemistry, or whatnot.

    You interview and find that your, say, four places for likely chemists are outnumber by five candidates who are good enough. The candidates in positions one to three are so good that you know that you must offer them a place. What about the the other two? You think that they are equally well qualified to take the fourth place.

    My own policy would be simple – if they are both male, admit the younger, if both female the prettier, and if they are one of each toss a coin.

    Maybe your uncle would prefer to reject the one with the private schooling. As you can see I’d decide based on personal characteristics, he on sociological assumptions. Shrug. However, if he would have interfered with the top three based on his sociological dogma, shame on him. Shame, shame, shame!

  13. Resartus says:

    You interview and find that your, say, four places for likely chemists are outnumber by five candidates who are good enough.

    Put them all in, on the point the ones with lowest grades pay for the ones with the highest grades….
    The ones that don’t believe they are capable would probably drop out on their own….

    • Replies: @dearieme
  14. dearieme says:
    @Resartus

    Doesn’t work. If the chemists admit an extra body which subject is going to give up a place? If the Fellows in another subject agree to do without, OK. But it’s common for all subjects to face the problem of having more acceptable candidates than there are places.

    Our hypothetical college might put the fifth candidate – however chosen – into a “pool” so that if some other college is short of good candidates they could call this lad or lass in for interview. There will also be list of candidates held in reserve in case some of the offers aren’t accepted, or people withdraw for personal reasons, or candidates do unexpectedly badly in their A-level examinations.

    In the end though it’s pretty simple: the number of freshman places at Cambridge is smaller than the number of candidates who show promise of being good enough to thrive at Cambridge. Some will therefore have to attend lesser universities. In recent years there have been reports of some British (and Continental) youngsters who might have been Oxbridge candidates having gone off to American universities instead. Reports also suggest that these are often pupils of private schools who might have expected to be discriminated against by e.g. LondonBob’s uncle.

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  15. That’s nice. I take it you don’t have any equivalent to these mandates in the UK?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_impact

    Any time any outcome seems to favor Whites over non-Whites, regardless of the cause, it’s Whitey’s fault and he must do something to fix it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co.

    1971 — 40 years ago. Clearly established that IQ tests hate Black people, and are thus NOT ALLOWED for employment purposes.

    Also, the terms “r****t” and “r****m” are simply pejorative terms for people of indigenous European heritage — anti-White slurs.

    Whining “But I’m not a ‘r****t’! Because [insert spergy blabbering here]!” is exactly analogous to an African trying to “prove” that he’s “not a n****r,” or a jew trying to “prove” that he’s “not a k**e.” Can’t be done. You can’t win that argument, and you’re a fool for trying. You have to reject the premise; the underlying anti-White narrative frame.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    , @James Forrestal
  16. dearieme says:
    @James Forrestal

    I take it you don’t have any equivalent to these mandates in the UK?

    We will; American habits spread. But only the bad ones.

  17. @dearieme

    Durham might manage a pool. The problem at Oxbridge is that all the applicants who get to interview are more than good enough. Drop one A* and you are out.

    • Replies: @dearieme
  18. dearieme says:
    @Philip Owen

    Durham might manage a pool.

    Cambridge certainly had a pool in the recent past. I don’t know how much Covid has disrupted habits.

    https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/files/publications/guide_to_the_winter_pool_for_applicants.pdf

    The problem at Oxbridge is that all the applicants who get to interview are more than good enough.

    Not in my experience; maybe things have changed since I was last involved. One problem was, I suspect, that schools that rarely see a very clever pupil, staffed by teachers none of whom are very clever, tend to overrate pupils who are clever but not Oxbridge standard. My advice to such schools: encourage the pupil to apply anyway. Oxbridge will know its own.

    And if the pupil is rejected, so what? One family friend told me about her son going off to Oxford for his December interview. As you may know the applicants spend a night or two in College for this “ordeal”, taking one or more tests (i.e. exams by another name), being subjected to one or more interviews, and eating with, and chatting with, the other applicants. He apparently loved the whole thing: the college, the dining hall, the common room, his interviews, the fellow feeling with the other applicants. He came home walking on air albeit convinced they’d reject him.

    Drop one A* and you are out

    There is, or once was, a tendency to make weaker offers to the students who have shone most in interviews and admissions tests. The logic was that it would be a great shame to have to reject an outstanding candidate because he had one bad day in the A-level season.

    I used to wonder at the occasional mismatch between excellent performance in December and weaker performance in the May/June A-level exams. Partly chance, partly hay fever, perhaps?

    • Replies: @Philip Owen
  19. dearieme says:

    To return to something a wee bit closer the the post’s subject: race and ethnic wokeness etc.

    I draw the readers’ attention to a fine Australian painting of 1862. Scroll down to the picture of three mounted policemen accompanying a handcuffed prisoner to Melbourne – on his way to trial, presumably.

    https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2021/04/the-loddon-massacre-that-never-happened/

    Note that the policemen are described as “Native police” i.e. they are Aborigines; that is to say Blackfellas. Properly armed at that: they have carbines. The prisoner is a European.

    Ah well, the universal Nazi-race-horror of the past, eh?

    • Thanks: YetAnotherAnon
  20. @dearieme

    I was thinking more of pupils from Hills Road 6th Form College in Cambridge rather than Gasworks Lane Comp, previously 2ndry Modern. If they don’t get 5 x A* when applying to Oxford, few apply to Cambridge, they don’t seen to get in . Admittedly this is personal anecdote rather than statistics. I’m sure you know that Hills Rd is often the #1 source of state school pupils in Oxford.

    • Replies: @dearieme
  21. @James Forrestal

    Should be “50 years ago,” of course

  22. dearieme says:
    @Philip Owen

    I also know that many sixth formers at Hills Road have transferred there from private schools. When the headmaster was asked some years ago how many of his star pupils were from private schools he refused to answer. So maybe Oxford colleges view them as pseudo-private school pupils of the sort LondonBob’s uncle enjoyed discriminating against.

    Or possibly the record of ex-Hills Road pupils at Oxford is disappointing, resulting in some scepticism about how well future pupils might do at Oxford.

    If they don’t get 5 x A* when applying to Oxford … they don’t seen to get in: more likely the claim is wrong. Is there any Oxford college that routinely demands of any applicant that they get five A-levels all at A* grade?

    I’m sure you know that Hills Rd is often the #1 source of state school pupils in Oxford.

    I didn’t know that but it’s easy to believe: the place is packed with the children of Cambridge dons. However your point is scarcely consistent with your other point about five A*s. How many Hills Road pupils get five A*s every year? (No counting General Studies as a genuine A-level please, and preferably don’t count two A-levels in Maths as being any more than one. Though I can imagine that Engineering Science dons at Oxford would very much prefer two A-levels at Maths – notoriously tough course, that.)

    Of course it’s all too possible that grade inflation has changed things since my day – then, if a candidate had murdered her interviews and tests you could demand as little as two As and a B.

    The big lesson, however, is that questions of race and sex in university admissions has not really surfaced in this discussion. Which is probably right.

  23. @dearieme

    Unfortunately, no, I don’t seem to have commented on this. There is a literature showing that if you reduce intelligence test requirements you get more Policemen shooting citizens, and more Police being incapable of drawing up the correct documentation so that criminals get prosecuted. So, the hidden under-story behind all the confrontations between Police and suspects is that if you drop standards (either because of affirmative action, not accepting the predictive value of tests, or not being able to compete with other trades for the best candidates) then you get more deaths in police custody.

  24. The closest that a phony ever comes to perfection is when they write their CV.

  25. So CVs of merit still actually get one a college job in Europe? Too bad merit no longer counts in the US, where, of course, it’s all about the race or Marxist ideology of the CV jobber. Except at actual education colleges like Hillsdale and those like it. Hillsdale and those like it are going to have to become much larger space-and dorm-space-wise very soon since no actual white student of merit will be able to (or want to) attend any other college….some whites do not like to be bullied by wokers if you know what I mean…. But I do admit I’d love it if all the woke universities either burned down or crashed within their bogus “equity.” Death to “woke”!

  26. Alfred says:

    There is nothing more annoying than to be invited to an interview only to realise that the slot was reserved all along for someone else. Try to apply for a job at the BBC and you will see what I mean.

    Some years ago, I went with a business partner to their HQ in London’s Portland Place. We were presenting our solution to a software project. As we were led to the meeting room where the presentation was to be made, we passed a vast number of youngish women who today would be called “Karens”. Every single one of them was White and trying her best to look as though she lived in Hampstead. They all spoke, or tried to, “posh” English.

    Needlessly to say, our proposal was not accepted. We were invited purely as a form-filling exercise. A friend of a friend was going to get the lucrative work. The managers present were hardly paying attention to what I was presenting.

    IMHO, governments pretend to recruit equitably by stuffing vast numbers of unwanted 3rd worlders into public-facing positions. The top management gets the cream. . 🙂

    In 1990, a Swedish friend went to inspect the Orléans (France) factory of a Swedish company. As he was being taken to see “le Patron”, he noticed that the women working in this vast room became progressively younger and prettier. The Boss was in a corner cubicle and the women were all in an open-plan space. My friend found it hilarious as it could not be done in Sweden at that time.

    • Agree: Philip Owen
  27. @James Thompson

    So, the hidden under-story behind all the confrontations between Police and suspects is that if you drop standards (either because of affirmative action, not accepting the predictive value of tests, or not being able to compete with other trades for the best candidates) then you get more deaths in police custody continue to encourage the dumbest members of society on the whole to challenge and ignore the reality of consequences–right or dreadfully wrong–which can occur on the street as a result of believing that “all things should be equal,” those persons may be caused to meet death prematurely–as is very unequal to life and decidedly unfair, yet nevertheless permanent.

    In the late 1970s the City of San Antonio was among the first in the nation to take a giant step on behalf of eliminating the reign of the demented King Kong Police Officer who many times was the product of childhood bullying or worse. The City did this by upping the starting salary for any new recruit to that of a CPA or other equivalent four year degrees. As a result, every call for new hires was met by a line of applicants on the sidewalk starting at 5:00AM sometimes three blocks long.

    In essence, the strategy involved hiring men with zero prior experience who nevertheless showed an ability to contructively process information under stress and who would have succeeded at many other well paying careers among which now included police officer. There was a half truth circulating in the personnel office that if a recruit claimed to have no experience with weapons, they were jumped to the short list. As a result, San Antonio by means of salary made a huge leap into competence. Take it from a guy who knew San Antonio for what it was and still remains: little Mexico. Please no critics on how S.A. remains unperfect. The point here is understanding just how bad it would have been today had it not been for that change.

    Perfect example of ‘to do’ being as easy as ‘to know.’

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  28. It’s a new world of fraud, total fraud. Biden is an absurd fraud. They are all frauds, because actual accomplishments, real work, are so very much more difficult than lies.

    Indians are fantastic fraudsters. Africans are fraud specialists. Many Asians are not so much CV fraudsters as they are test cheaters. Jews never cheat. Their deep religious convictions prevent any type of lie. They would never hurt you.

    You exist in a world of lies, an incomprehensibly deep fabric of lies. Fraud is the lingua Franca of life in the 21st century. Embrace it. Love it. Because that’s all you have now. Lie every day in any way that benefits you. New rules baby.

    • Replies: @HallParvey
  29. Bill P says:

    High level tech companies straight up discriminate against blacks. They hide it in an expensive but effective manner, but everyone in management knows what’s going on. IQ may be a significant factor there, but it isn’t the only one. I think fear of lawsuits, whether initiated by or caused by the black potential employee, is a big part of it.

    It’s really ironic how they do this while pushing woke garbage onto the rest of us. Maybe that’s part of their defense strategy. These people aren’t exactly known for moral consistency.

    BTW, Mr. Thompson, I’ve been putting some thought into this issue of IQ stratification, and I’ve begun to think we’ve been going about things the wrong way. High IQ means people will generally be better at intellectual tasks, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that they will thrive in any intellectual environment because their personality matters, too. We tend to think anyone who does well on cognitive tests must be suited to conventional, intellectually-demanding professions such as law, medicine or academia, but that just isn’t true.

    Additionally, concentrating all the brainpower in certain specialties and fields will leave the rest with a deficit. Instead, we could encourage people to choose a line of work based on personal preference rather than IQ. Not to say standards should be lowered, but let the institutions figure out how to attract the highly intelligent workers they need by accommodating them rather than relying on this pipeline of cognitively sorted people who are trained from childhood to believe they “belong” in a certain narrow range of occupations.

    Wouldn’t we all be better off if more miserable lawyers had instead become landscapers, more doctors plumbers, and more academics worked in waste management? Shouldn’t high IQ be more evenly distributed throughout the workforce? Wouldn’t that improve everyone’s quality of life more than the current industrial assembly line type of approach to milking brains for profit?

  30. anonymous[833] • Disclaimer says:

    Want to eliminate all “favoritism” and even the slightest trace of any subjective “bias”?

    Either institute a strict lottery system rather than any inspection of credentials, as BLM has succeeded in imposing, through shameless whinging and litigation, on several [formerly] elite American prep schools specializing in STEM curricula.

    Or, let an AI program do all the analyses, rank the candidates and make all the choices, making sure not to apprise the program of any applicant’s name, race, gender, plus deleting the names, locations, accreditations, and marks assigned for all educational institutions attended. The results are certain to be free of all human “bias,” but, based on the axiom of “garbage in/garbage out” you are bound to get exactly what you pay for.

  31. @joe2.5

    Well, not necessarily. The applicants could simply inform on their experience in general terms. eg. They could say they contributed to 10 research papers on dandelion efflorescence and they were cited 876 times for their work. Content/copywriters could do smth similar. If the employer is interested, he can simply contact the applicant for the actual references.

    • Replies: @joe2.5
  32. EMPLOYERS: Avoid hiring unlucky people by immediately tossing half the CVs into the bin.

  33. ebear says:

    Here’s my 2 cents on the topic. This works well in industrial and skilled labour type employment but it might be harder to pull off for professional employment. Still worth mentioning though.

    Forget about resumes. Have one on hand, of course, but don’t submit it until asked for it. How does that happen? Just show up at a place you might like to work for, and talk to the people who work there. Parking lots at quitting time are good for this. What kind of work do you people do? Is it interesting, varied, do you move around and learn different skills, are there opportunities for advancement, are you treated fairly by management, and who in management should I talk to? Questions like that will get honest answers and often a bump up to the person’s supervisor, who is the person you really want to talk to. Once you’ve snared their supervisor, the trick is to get them talking about what they do, while you mostly just listen, with the odd intelligent question.

    Point is, anyone who likes what they do will be happy to explain it to you, and when they realize you’re absorbing what they’ve told you and are interested in the work (you should be by this point – don’t waste their time) they are going to remember you. That’s the point where they ask for your resume, which after you leave will go in their prospect file, or whatever they call it. You’ll get a call, it just might not be right away, and if you’re working elsewhere and have to turn them down, they’ll get it. Someone got you first, so their response will be, well please give us a call if you change your mind.

    Again, this might not work too well in the professions, but for industrial and skilled labour, it has always worked better for me than grinding out resumes and waiting for calls. I’ve been hired on the spot when there wasn’t even a job posted. The supervisor I spoke to just went to his manager and said hire this guy. He knew they needed someone, and just hadn’t gotten around to it. In a case like that, you’re off to a good start because you just solved a problem for them, and made the guy you’ll be working for look good. All you have to do then is live up to it.

    • Replies: @Reaper
  34. Reaper says:

    There is a major problem with the article/ whole employment process:

    Employers (or the ones the future worker will work directly – like local manager) are in the majority of cases DO NOT hire directly.
    (Respect for the ones, who do.)

    There is either a staffing firm/ recruitment firm between, often also a different websites (for job seekers) which only redirects towards those.

    Also many company have a HR department, etc…
    The problem with the HR/ recruitment firms/ jobseeker websites themselves.
    They dictate who will work somewhere.

    Wish to be workers should meet directly with the ones they supposed to work for.

  35. This is just one more example of the vast number of areas suffering from costs imposed on society by importing third worlders.

  36. Vojkan says:

    To see whether racial discrimination exists, researchers send the same CV to employers with the same level of qualifications but different names attached, to see if the foreign-sounding names lead to a greater degree of rejection. They often find that to be the case.

    Given that British blacks most often bear British sounding names and that foreign whites too bear foreign sounding names, I don’t see how the difference in treatment can be put down to racial bias. Moreover, I don’t see anything wrong in giving precedence to compatriots over foreigners. It is the opposite that is unsound.

    As a French national with a foreign sounding name, I never expected to be given precedence over native French candidates and always counted solely on my competence to get a position. If the world we live in were still normal, that would be the normal attitude because in a normal world people are allowed to prefer their kin vs folks they don’t know from Adam. It is the opposite that isn’t normal.

    Discard national preference and you get foreign tribes’ nepotism.

    • Replies: @Reaper
  37. Reaper says:
    @ebear

    This is a good way to get in: means speak directly with the one you wish to work for.
    Works fine in professions, except if there is a legal barrier (if cannot employ you, even if wish to).

    Send HR to …

  38. Why should racial and religious aliens even be considered for employment over Britons in the homeland of the Britons? “Diversity” is a cancer, but it’s also theft. Whites are being robbed of our birthright constantly and multiple ways. Send the aliens home, put the pro-“diversity” cockroaches on trial for treason.

    • Agree: CelestiaQuesta
  39. researchers send the same CV to employers with the same level of qualifications but different names attached, to see if the foreign-sounding names lead to a greater degree of rejection. They often find that to be the case.

    Because it’s a lose-lose to hire a Tyrone or Abdul. Even if they’re the most qualified, they’re “high-maintenance,” arriving with extra-legal protections and considerations. Down the road they can always hide behind the specter of racism if their performance is found lacking.

    • Replies: @Marckus
  40. “…Fascinating, that a technique intended to detect bias in others reveals an unconscious bias in the researchers, in the form of a persistent blank-slatism. Whatever the actual results, these researchers keep wanting to assume that there are no group differences.

    There should be a compulsory course for all researchers, to warn them about the dangers of this egregious bias bias…”

    Of course blank-slatism and the assumption that there are no group differences is the core of the problem. But to solve that problem would require a total reversal of values. Our whole modern civilization is based on that error. To suggest such a change is as risky as being a witch or a heretic in the Middle Ages.

  41. Reaper says:
    @Vojkan

    “I don’t see anything wrong in giving precedence to compatriots over foreigners.”

    Agreed as they do it in Swiss.
    They prefer to employ their folk, if find a suitable person and wait up to 6 months before consider an outlander. Only then ready to employ someone else.
    BUT:
    Will not employ a dullard just because they share a citizenship/ ancestors.
    About 20% are foreigners among the employed, in Geneva probably most of the employed.

    And this is strictly the opposite what is common in many place (and self-appointed “nationalists” demand):
    No matter how incompetent but employ the dullard native, while send home the competent/ hardworking.

    Against meritism/ competition and bad for business.

  42. BorisMay says:

    What a load of bollocks.

    Racism is rampant in Britain. Whites hate all foreigners. Blacks hate all whites. Orientals are perpetually confused by these prejudices. US citizens are oblivious to all the indigenous hatred they receive as a result of occupying Europe for the last 77 years. (Imagine if the US had been occupied by Europeans all this time who continually ordered US citizens how to live as the US does to Europeans).

    And the interesting thing about this report is that it was done by black f*cking immigrants for a government of occupation headed by the Jew Boris Johnson.

    Racism is rife everywhere in Britain, but the immigrants that leech parasitically off the indigenous people like to fool themselves there is racism.

    As for the university admission personnel on here, considering the gullible ex university students that proliferate these days, who cannot write English, are unable to think and reason for themselves and who do not tolerate views in debates they disagree with, all your silly criteria for entry means nothing. You people clearly lost it somewhere in primary school!

    Nick Griffin was accepted on to a History and English course at Cambridge and after being chucked off the course at the end of the second year, somehow managed to leave with a degree in Law. Never understood that one. British universities are based on total lies. It can only be due to the poor admission criteria. And a totally corrupt system. A law degree after one year of study. There is something seriously wrong with Cambridge Uni.

    • Replies: @Marckus
  43. Mefobills says:
    @Bartolo

    Fuck all these arguments. If you try to argue with them, you have lost already. Private employers should be able to hire whoever they want. Just as private tech companies can kick out whoever they like from their platforms and banks can deny private individuals a bank account.

    You have a Lolbertarian argument. (((Lolbertarianism))) is a brainwashing operation that appeals to “individualists,” especially Americans. I’m an American – a Texan actually, and Texas is an “individualist” culture.

    Allow me to remove the scales from your eyes if you are willing. If not, others may have their scales fall out.

    Civilizations are complex operations, something like your body, with moving parts that mesh together and move dynamically. Private tech companies being able to ban just about anybody they want is a lolbertarian talking point, which is reduced to an absurdity; namely, corporations can ban people from the public square, because they are not government. Free-dumb is the most important Lolbertarian principle, but there is no such thing as freedom. There are only degrees of movement.

    Fascism and National Socialism are sophisticated constructs that admit civilization has many moving parts, and hence institutes controls to prevent cancers from growing. The degrees of movement are constrained, and the body remains in balance.

    Private employers, if they work in concert like a cabal, can deny labor the opportunity to work. Denying labor the opportunity to work, is to deny labor from deploying their energy to have life.

    Facism is required to control corporations, so labor can engage in life, to make money to live. Fascism in turn can remove women to the home life, where the majority of them belong, to then regenerate your civilization through birth of new children. Lolbertarianism and free dumb would reduce women to work units, where their labor value is to push spread sheets around, or to make useless things, rather than children.

    Fascism, national socialism, kingdoms, or any sort of illiberal (non-freedumb) type of government can easily remove undesirables by banishing them. I prefer the kinder approach of paying them to leave to go to their home country, rather than remain as a parasite.

    Free-dumb is only free for parasites to take rents and usury.

  44. There are plenty of dishonest Europeans, but honesty as a high value seems Western. Subcons caught in a lie will grin and do a head waggle something between a nod and a shake. Blacks will insist the lie is true. East Asians will lie until you demonstrate they cannot get away with it. Latin Americans only lie when they speak.

  45. Marckus says:
    @BorisMay

    Boris>> A good comment on your part. It seems to me that Oxford and Cambridge were solid institutions until around the mid 70’s.

    Was I wrong in this assessment?

    I think that after that Professors, no matter how dedicated, rather than get the powers upset, just gave passes out to students who had a propensity to be difficult. The fellows who showed a genuine desire for academic achievement I think were accorded good attention and mentoring.

    I don’t know what it is like now. Probably worse ? I know in the US one encounters chaps from Ivy League Universities who cannot spell or even put a sentence together. One corporate lawyer I worked with would draft the most appalling contracts.

    Your opinion on my third paragraph would be appreciated.

  46. Mefobills says:
    @The Soft Parade

    Your argument dovetails with mine, in that there is always hierarchy. How you train and staff your hierarchy is the most important question nobody is asking.

    men with zero prior experience who nevertheless showed an ability to constructively process information under stress and who would have succeeded at many other well paying careers among which now included police officer.

    The top of the governing hierarchy requires competence, and competence has measurable qualities. Constructively processing information is a higher order function relegated to a meritocracy of elites. A large swath of the population is not suited for higher order functioning; the lottery of life did not gift them.

    Many people don’t want to admit to themselves that there are differences in races, the sexes, and in individual ability. Free-dumb implies that everybody should be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator, to be made equal, and then things fall apart.

    encourage the dumbest members of society on the whole to challenge and ignore the reality of consequences–right or dreadfully wrong–which can occur on the street as a result of believing that “all things should be equal,” those persons may be caused to meet death prematurely–as is very unequal to life and decidedly unfair, yet nevertheless permanent.

    The sorting process to fill your hierarchy can be done with other methods instead of only salary:

    As a result, San Antonio by means of salary made a huge leap into competence.

    It would require written/verbal testing, and salary, then submitting applications to controlled conditions to see how they respond.

    But, in clown-world, requirements are constantly being “lifted” which destroys excellence at the top of the hierarchy.

    Here is a case where a Nigerian girl gets 19 scholarships. Western globo-homo is so desperate to have high performing blacks, they scour the world for the exceptions:

    https://www.withinnigeria.com/news/2021/04/30/nigerian-teenage-girl-gets-19-scholarship-offers-from-us-and-canada/

    • Replies: @Reaper
  47. @Just another serf

    It’s a new world of fraud, total fraud.

    There’s nothing new under the sun. It’s always been fraud, flimflam and bamboozle.

    Somebody once said, you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but not all of the people all of the time. But, then again, he could have just been fooling around.

  48. @Mefobills

    Free-dumb is the most important Lolbertarian principle, but there is no such thing as freedom.

    I thought it was Equality, or the new Equity. Freedom is yesterdays meme. Or maybe it’s something new and I wasn’t told.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  49. Marckus says:

    I have never had a problem being employed and frequently rarely even applied for any job. This in no way is a reflection of any special ability.

    Start networking immediately, continually study and take their studies seriously. Don’t dick around partying and marching. Also, whatever job you get, no matter how menial it may seem, is also a vehicle to skills accumulation and learning. Do it, not well, but exceptionally well.

    Folks need to understand that the boss or business owner deals with a multitude of problems on a daily basis. Don’t be one of those problems, rather try to help him avoid and solve the ones he has. Don’t be a lump, come up with ideas even if they seem silly. It just takes one good one to make you shine. Important !! Lead ! Be thoroughly familiar with your job and attain a high level of skill and knowledge in what others do. The CV should reflect ACCOMPLISHMENTS and not just job duties.

    When you depart, and you should strive to depart on good terms, your boss must remember you as a one of a kind. He should look at your replacement and wonder where he ever got such a dummy. Frequently, your replacement will not last and you will be asked to come back, generally to clean up the mess and at a higher salary. Your boss or the business owner remember, also has his network of contacts. He will talk you up to them. Don’t be surprised if you get unsolicited job offers out of the blue.

    In a word don’t be a cunt but don’t be a cringing marshmallow or sycophant boot licker either. Be a man and talk to everyone from the CEO to the Janitor as one man to the other. With luck you will never have to sit in front of some 21 year old HR Manager explaining why you are the most suitable candidate out of the other 300 vying for the same job.

    • Replies: @Cho Seung-Hui
  50. res says:
    @James Thompson

    Do you know what kind of thresholds that literature was using? The case dearieme linked was looking at scores like this:

    Jordan, a 49-year-old college graduate, took the exam in 1996 and scored 33 points, the equivalent of an IQ of 125. But New London police interviewed only candidates who scored 20 to 27, on the theory that those who scored too high could get bored with police work and leave soon after undergoing costly training.

    Most Cops Just Above Normal The average score nationally for police officers is 21 to 22, the equivalent of an IQ of 104, or just a little above average.

    If the test corresponds linearly with IQ (by no means a given) and assuming 21 = 104 and 33 = 125 we are looking at something like:

    21/12 = 1.75 IQ points per test point
    Acceptable IQ range of 102.25 – 114.5

    That might make sense for street cops (thoughts?), but I would worry about the promotion pipeline. Jordan’s age makes him a special case, and I don’t know if they took that into account.

    • Replies: @Reaper
    , @Anon
    , @James Thompson
  51. Jiminy says:

    Quite often it doesn’t matter what is presented on your cv unfortunately. It simply comes down to who you know. The secret handshake, the boy’s club. Whatever you want to call it, it isn’t fair or right but sometimes that is the only way to get an advantage. My wife told me once how her and a surgeon interviewed several applicants to fill a vacancy. But when it came to picking the winner from the last two people, it was just so difficult. Well the boss, while looking out the window said that the last applicant drives a Volvo. So that settled the matter. And I have to admit that a bloke I knew used the secret Masonic handshake to set me up with employment many years ago. I think the nice thing to call it is networking.

    • Replies: @Cho Seung-Hui
  52. Marckus says:
    @Sick of Orcs

    I agree. I would never hire a non-white or work for one. Too many problems in either scenario. Many years ago I got an unsolicited job offer from a wealthy middle eastern businessman. His problem was he could not expand as he employed family members who did the least possible and bled him all they could. He was a one man team.

    I did not really want the job and my demands were outrageous my hope being he would politely refuse. Instead he agreed to everything with an employment contract, severance in escrow and power second only to his.

    Fortunately or perhaps unfortunately I found and interviewed the previous incumbent, an Englishman. It appears that what the CEO/ Owner wanted was contrary to how he managed his family members. These characters would turn up at a business location and demand freebies, demand a business account (and not pay) and generally make themselves a nuisance and be disruptive. His Mother and Father would turn up and issue instructions or demand to know why this and that was done this and that way. When the good Englishman escorted them out he would get a call from the owner instructing him to give them what they wanted in order to keep the family peace.

    Blood is thicker than water and after a year of this bullshit he cashed out his termination and moved on. Knowing this I declined and added to my rules never to work for a non-white !

    On the other side of the coin I know of one executive who hired an East Indian assistant but terminated her before her probation for poor performance. To his dismay he was confronted outside the executive offices by a group of screaming and dancing Sikhs (with their ceremonial daggers) yelling about discrimination. This was noted and of course we avoided engaging these people. The same applies to blacks and orientals. One other aspect I have noted is that when one hires one of these individuals, they fill the place with their own kind frequently leading to a dysfunctional organization and in some cases collapse.

    Business comes with a multitude of problems many of which keep a guy awake and sweating 24/7. A white man does not need to add some coloured to the mix. Let them seek employment with their own !

    Whites for whites and all the others must look to their own kind for their daily bread.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
    , @Sick of Orcs
  53. mikemikev says:
    @XMikemikev

    This is an impersonation, probably Oliver. D. Smith.

  54. profnasty says:

    “commented on UK report”
    click.

    Wtf is a CV? Oh wait, I don’t care.

  55. @James Thompson

    In my youth, I sat the exam for promotion to plainclothes detective work for one of the local policemen. It was done by correspondence. Top marks of that exam season. The police have tested for a long time. When did they reject candidates for too high an IQ? These days graduates are the norm. I don’t know if they are still fast tracked to ranks that do interesting stuff. They used to be. More or less guaranteed to be a uniformed Inspector or Detective Sargeant by year 5.

    Then there is the understory of Community Service Officers. It’s not their job to be bright, just to be seen. They receive a lot less training than actual police officers.

  56. Memejon says:

    Standard writing requires an abbreviation to be spelled out first and then shortened. Uk, cv..

  57. Mefobills says:
    @HallParvey

    I stick to free-dumb, and yes, new buzz-words are coined all the time. Equality and everybody is the same are some of the new or recycled ones.

    Here is more on free-dumb and how it isn’t free. Lolbertarianism is a mind virus where your pockets are allowed to be picked, and you identify with the thief.

    Here is Hudson explaining how it works at the higher level, where he observed it first hand:

    https://www.unz.com/mhudson/money-and-debt/

    In other words: we will lend the dictators and the client oligarchies money to pay, but if they were to vote for somebody we don’t like, then we’ll call in all the loans, strangle the economy, block them from importing, devalue the currency, create a crisis, to say: that’s what you get for not voting for our guys.

    You want to try democracy? This is the free market where we get to bankrupt you if you don’t like it.

    They said: it’s not a bad thing that the government makes loans, because we can control them, we can make sure that if they elect anyone we don’t like, anyone who wants land reform, anyone who wants independence, anyone who won’t privatize their oil and their natural resources, you can just absolutely destroy them.

    I said: Okay, I get it, if you lend them the money, then they can pay.This is like a Ponzi scheme: you lend the investors enough to pay the interest and keep current. That was my introduction to how the balance of payments worked between the United States and the third world and how political the whole credit problem was.

    Free markets are only free for parasites and usurers to run their schemes. Lolbertarianism is an ideology of our (((friends))), and I think its adherents are dupes. I no longer think they are well meaning dupes either, they have a personality defect, where they lack empathy.

    • Replies: @The Soft Parade
    , @GeeBee
  58. G. Poulin says:
    @Bartolo

    Linh Dinh was telling us how, in officially socialist Vietnam, employers could hire and fire whoever they wanted to, for any reason or for no reason at all. — the government saw no reason to interfere. If only we could be so free!

  59. Mefobills says:
    @Marckus

    This was noted and of course we avoided engaging these people. The same applies to blacks and orientals. One other aspect I have noted is that when one hires one of these individuals, they fill the place with their own kind frequently leading to a dysfunctional organization and in some cases collapse.

    Your advice does not work in multi-culti shit-hole land in a zone like where I live (Texas). You still have to employ minorities to keep the Fed’s happy. And besides, they are no longer minorities, whites are the minority now. Way to go democracy! Turn your country into a shit-hole and dispossess the former ethnic majority.

    The idea is to find employees who do not operate as an in-group. The first rule is to not hire too many of one group. East Indians definitely network and operate as an in-group, the same as Jews. Absolutely no Jews, and maybe an odd east Indian here and there if you are a big operation.

    Blacks for the most part want to be told what to do, and if you find a good one, it is something like finding a unicorn with rainbows shooting out of its ass. Hang onto that negro. They do exist, and if you treat them right, they will not form an in-group. Also, do not hire too many. Keep the percentages down to the minimum to keep the Feds at bay. You have to eat some shit and appear as if you are multi-culti friendly.

    Female Hispanics are a twofer, in that they are a “minority/majority” and many have incorporated white culture, because they are high fraction whites themselves. Bonus if they have out-married white. Some castizo hispanics (high fraction whites) can be crazy like a lot of white women are, so there is that too. It is a mine field!

    Female north east Asians tend to out-marry and have white husbands. They norm to white culture and do not form in-groups. Make sure their husbands are white. Most of the north east asian women have been good employees, although there are some crazy ones too. The bad ones are passive aggressive. We had one we called the mad-shitter, as she would lay down turds in various locations to show her displeasure with life. (Like all women, she should have been at home, not working, but instead taking care of her family.)

    If you are in America, you can hire some American born Japanese men (ABJ), who are good, but there are not many available. ABC (American born Chinese) are more prevalent and available, and if they are Christians it is probably an ok bet.

    When you are done, you have a carefully balanced work force that looks multi-culti, but will be predominantly white men. The FED’s do not care about sex, they only care about race. So, if you hire minority women into clerk positions and the like, you can survive without in-groups forming and undermining your operation.

    • Thanks: Reaper
  60. Am I equal to you?

    That’s where it all starts and ends in my simple book of comprehension…

  61. @James Thompson

    It would be ironic if the recent uptick in police brutality against blacks was caused by reducing police entry standards in order to allow more blacks in.

    • Replies: @Resartus
  62. anon[278] • Disclaimer says:
    @dearieme

    What’s a CV? A job application?

    • Replies: @dearieme
  63. Resartus says:
    @TelfoedJohn

    It would be ironic if the recent uptick in police brutality against blacks was caused by reducing police entry standards in order to allow more blacks in.

    Would be, but nothing shows that…
    What shows, is blacks have been given a special status….
    They are trying to take advantage of it….
    Police are just being police, in most cases just being human and protecting themselves….

  64. @Mefobills

    Libertarian is just another word for reaping the benefits of a responsible society while refusing to accept any responsibility for it. Accordingly, they mostly identify as “mavericks” who because they are cowards, likewise ditch all empathy for anything in their self-centered view which fails to please them to an extent warranting involvement. Theirs is the gutless careless culture of ‘let it be’ and ‘leave me be.’

    • Agree: Mefobills
  65. @Mefobills

    Your nasty misogyny and vicious racism are exemplary. I’ve worked for years with different races, sexual orientations, ideologies, personalities and, of course, genders, and found no such problems. Everyone mucked in together. One bull dyke was briefly a problem, acting in an embarrassing manner, but the gays straightened her out, and she departed, accusing them of ‘homophobia’, poor thing. But we’re not the ‘Shining Shit-house on the Hill’, although the worst in our society wish we were.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  66. dearieme says:
    @anon

    curriculum vitae: a Latin expression that becomes a “résumé” in American French.

  67. @Mefobills

    ‘Libertarians’ are just misanthropes, misogynists, xenophobes and general misfits. The archetype is the serial killer. All that I have ever met were of low intelligence and bereft of any morality but that of the parasite. It’s all about me, and to Hell with others. Any society where these creatures are common is on its way out.

  68. “Employers may have actually found that some groups make poor employees.”

    This seems like exactly the bias the study was trying to demonstrate, no?

  69. Mefobills says:
    @Mulga Mumblebrain

    Your nasty misogyny and vicious racism are exemplary.

    You are prone to having mumble-brain farts. I am giving hard-won advice on how to have a smooth functioning operation, and to prevent racist in-groups from forming. Whites are the least racist group and are prone to pathological altruism.

    I’ve worked for years with different races, sexual orientations, ideologies, personalities and, of course, genders, and found no such problems.

    I have too, and in-groups do form. As of this moment in time, my wife is observing a Spanish homosexual leader (he is white) being run out by a group of hispanic women, because he is not on-board with their ethnic plans. His being Spanish and homosexual is not enough armor plating.

    Your claims are an illogical fallacy, as if your experiences are normative. The large data set is what matters.

    Everyone mucked in together.

    With regards to gays, you don’t want them in your operation either, nor do you want ass-holes. It takes a very vigilant human resources department staffed by people who are purposeful in their hiring and firing.

    I explained the best way to get everybody to “muck together” and that is to keep a white patriarchy in place, and then use minority women to keep the feds at bay.

    Is your butt-hurting because I am accurate? Is the butt hurting because you can see that I am for limiting the amount of ABC’s and ABJ’s. Is your butt hurting because you are in that category and don’t want to be singled out? I am admitting that ABC ‘s and ABJ’s are not that much of a problem, but too many would be bad, which is obvious to anybody who can think clearly.

    • Replies: @The Soft Parade
  70. @Mefobills

    Hello?
    Moolga works as a sexual libertarian with a primary thrust for gays and assholes.

  71. But what if this “egregious bias bias” is the point and purpose of these kinds of research papers?

  72. GeeBee says:
    @Mefobills

    Thanks for those two comments explaining ‘Lolbertarisnism for dummies’! I do now feel that more and more people are starting to ‘get it’, certainly here on Unz, and in no small measure through your own sterling efforts. As for your respondent who asked whether ‘freedom’ wasn’t actually yesterday’s idea, and that today, more emphasis is placed upon ‘equality’, I would remind him that the great battle cry of La Revolution was of course Liberté égalité fraternité – a ridiculous and bogus sentiment, yet one that I see every time I drive into the local towns or villages, prominently emblazoned above the door of each and every Mairie in the town or village square. That ‘freedom’ and ‘equality’ are actually largely antithetical, and that thus, the great revolutionary cry is actually an oxymoron, does not appear to disturb the zealotry of those who adhere to it.

    The point being that the absurd notion of ‘equality’ was exactly contemporaneous with that of freedom. Both concepts are of course nonsense. Hierarchy is hard-wired into most mammals and the conceit that we are somehow an exception is the cause of more actual suffering than might be measured. I shall not attempt to add to your own clear demonstrations regarding both the shortcomings and the illusory nature of ‘freedom’, but would just like to point out that the third component of this catechism of doom, namely ‘fraternité’, might be understood as hinting at Lock’s idealistic concept of the ‘brotherhood of man’ – the great gatekeeper to mass, transformative immigration that is steadily eroding the very fabric of our once White lands.

    Certainly on this side of the English Channel, Lock’s acolyte Jean-Jacques Rousseau was a great promoter of this same, bankrupt and unnatural idea. I have frequently quoted Revilo P Oliver in my comments here, because his sound and scholarly insights into these things, and especially so regarding Liberalism, deserve to be more widely read, and his oeuvre should be something of a vade mecum for all of us on the ‘dissident right’. Here he is explaining the origins and nature of this foul spawn of the ‘Enlightenment’ that we know as Liberalism. It is perhaps rather a long extract, but will, I hope, give a flavour of his delightfully mischievous erudition that might whet the appetite of some who read it:

    “Liberalism” is a succedaneous religion that was devised late in the Eighteenth Century and it originally included a vague deism. Like the Christianity from which it sprang, it split into various sects and heresies, such as Jacobinism, Fourierism, Owenism, Fabian Socialism, Marxism, and the like. The doctrine of the “Liberal” cults is essentially Christianity divested of its belief in supernatural beings, but retaining its social superstitions, which were originally derived from, and necessarily depend on, the supposed wishes of a god. This “Liberalism,” the residue of Christianity, is, despite the fervor with which its votaries hold their faith, merely a logical absurdity, a series of deductions from a premise that has been denied.

    The dependence of the “Liberal” cults on a blind and irrational faith was long obscured or concealed by their professed esteem for objective science, which they used as a polemic weapon against orthodox Christianity, much as the Protestants took up the Copernican restoration of heliocentric astronomy as a weapon against the Catholics, who had imprudently decided that the earth could be stopped from revolving about the sun in defiance of Holy Writ by burning intelligent men at the stake or torturing them until they recanted. Pious Protestants would naturally have preferred a cozy little earth, such as their god described in their holy book, but they saw the advantage of appealing to our racial respect for observed reality to enlist support, while simultaneously stigmatizing their rivals as ignorant obscurantists and ridiculous ranters.

    The votaries of “Liberalism” would have much preferred to have the various human species specially created to form one race endowed with the fictitious qualities dear to “Liberal” fancy, but the cultists saw the advantage of endorsing the findings of geology and biology, including the evolution of species, in their polemics against orthodox Christianity to show the absurdity of the Jewish version of the Sumerian creation-myth. The hypocrisy of the professed devotion to scientific knowledge was made unmistakable when the “Liberals” began their frantic and often hysterical efforts to suppress scientific knowledge about genetics and the obviously innate differences between the different human species and between the individuals of any given species. At present, the “Liberals” are limited to shrieking and spitting when they are confronted with inconvenient facts, but no one who has heard them in action can have failed to notice how exasperated they are by the limitations that have thus far prevented them from burning wicked biologists and other rational men at the stake.

    It is unnecessary to dilate on the superstitions of “Liberalism.” They are obvious in the cult’s holy words. “Liberals” are forever chattering about “all mankind,” a term which does have a specific meaning, as do parallel terms in biology, such as “all marsupials” or “all species of the genus Canis,” but the fanatics give to the term a mystic and special meaning, derived from the Zoroastrian myth of “all mankind” and its counterpart in Stoic speculation, but absurd when used by persons who deny the existence of Ahuru Mazda or a comparable deity who could be supposed to have imposed a transcendental unity on the manifest diversity of the various human species. “Liberals” rant about “human rights” with the fervor of an evangelist who appeals to what Moses purportedly said, but a moment’s thought suffices to show that, in the absence of a god who might be presumed to have decreed such rights, the only rights are those which the citizens of a stable society, by agreement or by a long usage that has acquired the force of law, bestow on themselves; and while the citizens may show kindness to aliens, slaves, and horses, these beings can have no rights.

    Furthermore, in societies that have been so subjugated by conquest or the artful manipulation of masses that individuals no longer have constitutional rights that are not subject to revocation by violence or in the name of “social welfare,” there are no rights, strictly speaking, and therefore no citizens — only masses existing in the state of indiscriminate equality of which “Liberals” dream and, of course, a state of *de facto* slavery, which their masters may deem it expedient, as in the United States at present, to make relatively light until the animals are broken to the yoke.

    Liberals” babble about “One World,” which is to be a “universal democracy” and is “inevitable,” and they thus describe it in the very terms in which the notion was formulated, two thousand years ago, by Philo Judaeus, when he cleverly gave a Stoic coloring to the old Jewish dream of a globe in which all the lower races would obey the masters whom Yahweh, by covenant, appointed to rule over them. And the “Liberal” cults, having rejected the Christian doctrine of “original sin,” which, although based on a silly myth about Adam and Eve, corresponded fairly well to the facts of human nature, have even reverted to the most pernicious aspect of Christianity, which common sense had held in check in Europe until the Eighteenth Century; and they openly exhibit the morbid Christian fascination with whatever is lowly, proletarian, inferior, irrational, debased, deformed, and degenerate. This maudlin preoccupation with biological refuse, usually sicklied over with such nonsense words as ‘under*privileged* [!],’ would make sense, if it had been decreed by a god who perversely chose to become incarnate among the most pestiferous of human races and to select his disciples from among the illiterate dregs of even that *peuplade*, but since the “Liberals” claim to have rejected belief in such a divinity, their superstition is exposed as having no basis other than their own resentment of their betters and their professional interest in exploiting the gullibility of their compatriots.

    In the Eighteenth Century, Christians whose thinking was cerebral rather than glandular, perceived that their faith was incompatible with observed reality and reluctantly abandoned it. A comparable development is taking place in the waning faith of “Liberalism,” and we may be sure that, despite the cult’s appeal to masses that yearn for an effortless and mindless existence on the animal level, and despite the prolonged use of public schools to deform the minds of all children with “Liberal” myths, the cult would have disappeared, but for the massive support given it today, as to the Christian cults in the ancient world, by the Jews, who have, for more than two thousand years, battened on the venality, credulity, and vices of the races they despise.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  73. @Marckus

    Thank you for a great and detailed post!

  74. @Mefobills

    Excellent post, a literal life lesson to be read in just a few minutes.

  75. @Jiminy

    People have such a distaste for networking because they’re intentionally misled into thinking that “meritocracy” means “social mobility”.

    Merit is almost never directly defined, but it must always include the ability to work well with others on the team. In a low-trust world like this one, people prefer to work through who they already know. quite understandably. Therefore, it is best to already have relationships with the hiring managers in question.

    Unfortunately, this means that people already born into a profession have an advantage, and social mobility is overstated. Which it is. America should just come clean with the fact that most people regress to the mean and are statistically unlikely to deviate from their station in life. This would destroy the need for “everyone to become a billionaire”, and people could live in peace

  76. @Mefobills

    Curious as to whether you noticed any difference in behavior in the “ABJ’s” vs. the “ABC’s”. The former have been in this country much, much longer.

    Also, where did you get the term “ABJ” from? This is a term that is never actually used by ABJ’s themselves, but ABC’s to refer to ABJ’s.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  77. @Marckus

    How old are you? This advice “sounds” good but can only be meaningfully applied within certain job markets, and was more relevant 30 years ago. It’s more suitable for a high-trust, communal America that doesn’t exist anymore.

    In today’s fast-paced, you are nothing to an employer. They will have no reservation about letting you go mere weeks after you’ve been hired, at which point you’ll either have to explain what happened (impossible), or simply deny ever having worked there. One continually has to project a narrative in which every life decision was somehow made in order to secure their current job. Yes, this means retconning history, and explaining how all those years in high school playing sports were instead spent reading the Wall Street Journal or studying programming. But that’s who employers want: individuals whose life revolves around their work, have no independent opinions, and haven’t had the time to have plausibly developed independent opinions, hence ageism. Anyone that that doesn’t fit the mold is ultimately a flight risk.

    The need to do so has amplified with the rise of social media. Today, everyone is expected to have a Linkedin page, with every single activity ever done recorded. This results in an unprecedented level of enforced social conformity in which people can’t even admit having been two weeks outside the workforce. This is why I don’t have a social media presence: it’s simply impossible to anticipate where someone’s career will be, and therefore what kind of “story” they will have to tell, given the chaos of the private sector. It’s prudent to simply not say anything, lest you prevent yourself from being able to ‘retcon” your story in the future.

  78. Reaper says:
    @res

    At my country 100 – 110 considered normal/ average. Some areas expanded it to 115.
    Which is fully in line with the above.

    Someone in the range of about 120 – 150 is different, elevated in thinking so there are great chance to find a work which require less boring, illogical, nonsense.
    Police kept as executives: who execute orders, and keep the law. Not to think, not the solve, not to question but to follow rules.

    Above 150 even worse for anybody, they are so far from the average and this leads to serious problems with normies, they cannot follow, and tag the person as weird, freak, nerd, smartass, whatever. They can hardly fir in/ blend in any society, above it, so get bullied/ ridiculed, because the average at least find them weird, or get worried.

  79. Reaper says:
    @Mefobills

    I find no problem with exceptions.

    The mentioned girl seem to have good results.
    Computational Biology is not some woke scholarship.
    That is a fine way when someone get positions based on merits.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  80. Mefobills says:
    @Cho Seung-Hui

    Also, where did you get the term “ABJ” from? This is a term that is never actually used by ABJ’s themselves, but ABC’s to refer to ABJ’s.

    I’m an equal opportunity race realist. I talk to people openly and frankly and they reciprocate.

    You then learn terms like FOB (Fresh Off the Boat), and ABC’s and ABJ’s.

    East Indians have their own set of terms, especially for American born Indians, who are different behaviorally and culturally than their parents.

    The jury is still out on ABI’s and their future behavior. They may or may not behave as an in-group like their parents.

    Hawaii is a good test case for ABJ vs ABC. I’ve commented on it in my history. There is a difference in behavior, although it is converging now to become more American normed, after some 5 generations in Hawaii.

    I’m still going to lay down a marker. A White Patriarchy IS THE WAY TO GO, especially if you want a smooth running operation. Be very careful in your hiring and firing.

    ABJ and ABC’s can be excellent and will get on-board with the Patriarchy because they operate in sympathy with it. Fully Chinese owned companies tend to be nepotistic toward family.

    • Replies: @Cho Seung-Hui
  81. @Mefobills

    Ok, fair enough.

    To be honest, Asians of a more recent vintage prefer non-PC, race-realism. At least I do. Can just get straight to the point about things.

    So whats’ your view on Jews?

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  82. Mefobills says:
    @GeeBee

    It seems education begins after school, and Oliver should be part of the curriculum.

    Here is one of his comments circa WW1 that have my attention, and is relevant to today’s propaganda efforts.

    https://www.heretical.com/miscella/oliver2.html

    To partially quote Oliver, even the relatively sophisticated UNZ reader is under the influence of mass illusion and not conscious of their projection; we may be certain that most of the teachers who inject illusions into the minds of the young, many of the journalists who manufacture tripe for the press and radio, and even quite a few of the “social scientists” who concoct sophistries for the half-educated, are not conscious of what they are doing, Today’s Covid mania is a front row show on how group think is inculcated into a population. Karen’s and the like enforce the group think while they project. Underneath all of this manipulation is the mainspring, which is the money. Following the money is the angle I take, which leads me to the same place Oliver found himself.

    [MORE]

    Experience has shown that the mass-armies of “democratic” states fight with greater zeal when they are animated by hatred and supported by a hate-crazed populace that fancies it is fighting a holy war. Lies have therefore become military equipment, a kind of mental logistics; but it is the essence of such propaganda that its spuriousness is known only to the persons who manufacture it. The model of such operations is the famous lie-factory managed by Lord Bryce during the First World War, in which a corps of expert technicians forged photographs, while expert liars, including Arnold Toynbee, concocted stories of “atrocities” to inspire the emotionally overwrought British with a fanatic’s hatred of the incredibly bestial Germans and with a noble Christian ardour to kill them.

    Lord Bryce’s superiors in the Government undoubtedly knew what his merry knaves were doing, and a small number of educated and judicious men must at least have had suspicions which they concealed from fear or unwillingness to impair the “war effort,” but the number of persons who knew or suspected the truth was very small in comparison with the vast majority that was successfully deceived during the war. And after the war, the secret could no longer be kept.

    It is a truism, of course, that in “democratic” states the populace must be encouraged to imagine that it makes important decisions by voting, and must therefore be controlled by suitable propaganda, which implants ideas to which the voters respond automatically as trained animals respond to words of command in a circus, thus leaving to the masses only a factitious choice between Tweedledum and Tweedledee on the basis of their preference for a certain kind of oratory, a hair-style, or a particular facial expression.

    The production of such propaganda requires a very high degree of technical skill, as may be learned from the most complete treatise on the subject, Jacques Ellul’s Les Propagandes (Paris, 1962), which is also available in an excellent English translation. The conditioning of the populace must be directed by a small corps of expert technicians in the employ of an oligarchy, with only a limited number of assistants who are fully aware of their task. When we consider the British and Americans (as distinct from resident aliens), we may be certain that most of the teachers who inject illusions into the minds of the young, many of the journalists who manufacture tripe for the press and radio, and even quite a few of the “social scientists” who concoct sophistries for the half-educated, are not conscious of what they are doing, being themselves deceived. And the individuals who suspect that they are deluding their victims probably soothe their consciences with assurances that they are engaged in noble work for “democracy” and their salaries.

    • Thanks: GeeBee
  83. Mefobills says:
    @Cho Seung-Hui

    So whats’ your view on Jews?

    I’m a monetary historian, so I go pretty hard against our (((friends))), as I am more conversant than most with Jewish perfidy.

    That said, I am also conscious of low-level Jews who have not had my training and education, and therefore said Jews become confused and emotional when confronting anti-semitism. In other words, I go easy on regular sheeple jews, who identify as Jewish culturally, and are unaware of the larger machinations of the tribe.

    I’m sympathetic to NSDAP economy.

    https://www.unz.com/comments/all/?commenterfilter=mefobills

  84. Mefobills says:
    @Reaper

    I find no problem with exceptions.

    The tragedy is that to find the exception, universities go through contortions doing a world-wide hunt.

    The exception then allows the university to have a genuine black scholar they can brag about, and introduce to industry.

    The Woke crowd will then do contortions patting themselves on the back, because “the exception makes the rule.”

    How many historic Americans (Whites or Asians) could do the job?

    What about the circular flow of money? American sourced dollars flow externally to Nigeria, not benefitting native American citizens. Then the Nigerian girl likely will end up as a new American citizen, working in an “international corporation.” The intellectual elite draining away from Nigeria does not help Nigeria proper.

    The only real way it makes sense, is as a gift from the American people to Nigeria, which then implies she must return to her homeland after her education.

    But, clown world is not real is it?

    • Replies: @Reaper
  85. joe2.5 says:
    @threestars

    In my business, having published (or even being often cited) means little. One has to read the papers to know if the guy has done any serious work. Also, asking the applicant for actual references… cancels anonymity anyway.

  86. Reaper says:
    @Mefobills

    I understand your chain of thinking.

    But if you watch it from a historical perspective this was always the same.

    Countries, especially larger countries/ the ones which wish to have a rapid advancement always searched talents/ professionals worldwide (well, what they were able to reach).

    Just go back for the Frankish Empire: invited anyone who have certain knowledge, talents, can tutor, etc… Al Andalus was the same in that time.

    Later the most notable ones were the Spanish Empire (like Columbus), Sweden in the XVII. century.
    After Russia during Peter the Great who invited professionals, military officers, industrialist, navy professionals, and all the others in mass numbers.
    Japan done the same in the end of XIX. century.
    Rich arabic states, like UAE, Katar, Kuvait, and all the others done the same, still does. Do you think their scientists, engineers, educators, advisors are “home-grown”? No, they imported brains and talents, inported the ones who can teach the locals.

    USA – always done it.
    Especially since 1945. This was the main motor in science and development. A large part of German scientists end up in the USA after ww2, and they did continue this “brain exhaust” up to today.
    The country have the financial and infrastructural means to offer much, and many will go.

    • Replies: @Mefobills
  87. res says:
    @Anon

    Thanks! I had not realized they used the Raven APM (how did you know, or did you just figure it out from the raw score correspondence?). I just looked at the conversion table in David Becker’s NIQ spreadsheet and their numbers appear to match the APM(GBR)1992 Raven, Raven & Court (1998, Tab.APM14) norms for 18 year olds. Here is Becker’s equation: IQ=0.0019*RS^3-0.1201*RS^2+4.1309*RS+52.7253

    Using the exact raw score conversions in the spreadsheet (cells AC77 and AJ77 in V1.3.3) the 20 – 27 range corresponds to IQ 102.5 – 114.10

    So my 102.25 – 114.5 estimate was very close.

    • Replies: @EH
  88. Mefobills says:
    @Reaper

    We don’t need her brain. She has no specific knowledge or talent that is in short supply.

    What is in short supply is brains plus negro, which can be used as a shield to keep the woke crowd at arms length. Her race is the dominant variable.

    Importing knowledge workers who are more advanced, to then improve home grown industry, is not the case with scholarship girl.

  89. EH says: • Website
    @res

    I’ve done some work on the WJ-4 technical manual you kindly linked some time ago.

    As a note for others: the Woodcock-Johnson is one of the top IQ tests, which uses a Rasch measure of intelligence, called a W-score. (The Stanford-Binet uses the same scale, but calls it “change-sensitive scale”, CSS). Rasch measures are absolute measures of ability, in the same way that lengths are absolute measures of distance – they have a true zero, so one can say this question is 10% harder than that, or equivalently, that one person is 10% more intelligent. The difficulties of questions and the abilities of test-takers are computed all together in a matrix with rows being test-takers and columns being questions, with each matrix entry being 1 if that person got that question right, and 0 if they got it wrong. Using matrix math, difficulties and abilities are computed simultaneously. A bootstrapping procedure can update the matrix with additional questions and test results, giving an ongoing update to test norming. After validating questions (a complex but not arbitrary process), the only free choice in making a Rasch measure is choosing a reference score that sets the scale, which for the W-score and CSS was chosen to make the average, 100 IQ 10.0 year-old’s score 500.

    I’ve made a graph of full test-scale (FSIQ) W-scores vs. age with additional lines for +/- 1 to 3 standard deviations. This allows comparing the absolute intelligence of people with different ages. So a 145 IQ (+3 s.d.) 8-year old can be seen to be best placed with a 130 IQ class of 10-year-olds, or a 115 IQ class of 13-year-olds.

    I’ve found a highly accurate curve fit for W-scores ages 5 to 17:

    W-score = 547- 473/age

    Above 17, the average CSS rises to 520 by age 22 and remains 520-521 through at least age 35.
    Generally the W-score standard deviation in adulthood is 10.5.
    In childhood it falls from about 12 ages 5-8, to 9.5 ages 9-17.
    Assuming an s.d. of 10 is good enough for most calculations, since the s.d. data is quite noisy.

    [I don’t think I can post the graph here – maybe someone else has privileges?]

    • Replies: @res
  90. res says:
    @EH

    [I don’t think I can post the graph here – maybe someone else has privileges?]

    If you can get the image onto the net all you have to do is include a link. For an example, see this comment.
    https://www.unz.com/jthompson/boeing-737-max-the-upgrade/?showcomments#comment-3135857

    If you don’t mind linking to your blog from here that would be an easy way to do it.

    • Replies: @EH
  91. @res

    I need to go back to the original studies. However, there is little point avoiding bright people, for fear that they will leave. It is the bright ones which will lift standards higher.

  92. EH says: • Website
    @res

    Testing:(From my blog post, which has a link to an archived PDF of the WJ-IV technical manual. The data is on p. 279-280.)

    The line widths are not calibrated, but meant to remind that testing uncertainty is greater far from the mean. The standard deviations have been smoothed to make the +/-3 s.d. lines less lumpy.

    The curve fit to the mean is: W-score = 547- 473/age.

    • Replies: @James Thompson
  93. @EH

    A good picture, though the convention of less-accurate scores being shown with broader bands makes those bands seem more important, not more subject to error!

    • Replies: @EH
  94. EH says: • Website
    @James Thompson

    I’ve made another version with more subdued color and less variation in width of the lines; the +/-3 s.d. lines are so faint in the new chart that it doesn’t make the outer lines look heavier. It also fits on standard letter-size paper, has additional right and top scales for easier reading, and has a scalable / printable PDF version. I’ve also added an actual vs. smoothed s.d. by age graph and a note of the source of the data.

    It’s at the same blog post link as above

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