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Two Reviews of Charles Murray's "Facing Reality: Two Truths About Race in America"
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Razib Khan reviews Charles Murray’s Facing Reality in Quillette:

Charles Murray’s ‘Facing Reality’—A Review

written by Razib Khan

July 29, 2021

And Robert Verbruggen reviews Facing Reality in National Review:

What to Make of Racial Gaps

By ROBERT VERBRUGGEN
July 29, 2021 11:25 AM

Facing Reality: Two Truths about Race in America, by Charles Murray (Encounter Books, 168 pp., $25.99)

With Facing Reality, Charles Murray aims to provide an extremely brief corrective to our current debate over racial inequality. That debate, he says, is missing “two truths”:

The first is that American Whites, Blacks, Latinos, and Asians, as groups, have different means and distributions of cognitive ability. The second is that American Whites, Blacks, Latinos, and Asians, as groups, have different rates of violent crime.

Once we recognize that these differences exist and will be with us “indefinitely,” we should stop blaming all racial inequality on racism, abandon race-conscious policies, and rededicate ourselves to the American ideal of treating one another as individuals.

What is the target audience for such an argument? Murray says one group is a special priority: “people on the center-left who are liberals in the tradition that extended from FDR through Bill Clinton and included Senator Joe Biden.”

It is true, of course, that there are real and highly consequential racial gaps in test scores and crime rates — and that we’ve expended considerable effort trying to close them, with mixed-at-best results. It’s less clear that many Americans are unaware of these gaps, that Murray is the right person to convince a skeptic, or that the case he has assembled here is well tailored to that purpose.

To begin with, I would posit that most Americans know about these problems, even if they’d rather not dwell on them or state them out loud in crude terms. Some may cringe at the assertion that different racial groups have different levels of “cognitive ability” on average, for instance, but gaps in academic performance are widely accepted. Every year we hear about gaps on standardized tests and debate how to address them. High rates of crime in minority neighborhoods are similarly obvious and troubling to mainstream and center-left Americans. In 2016, Barack Obama called the black murder rate “way out of whack compared to the general population.”

My main subject matters are:

Pointing out how the world works;

Pointing out that the typical New York Times’ subscriber’s model of how the world works increasingly doesn’t work.

But that doesn’t mean that the white population of the non-ultraorthodox parts of Brooklyn don’t know about crime and education gaps between the races when it comes to, say, why the think this block would be ideal to profit from off gentrification but that block will have to wait.

On the other hand, their awareness of the existence of racial gaps seems to vanish when it comes to matters of public policy not personally affecting them. To take a pertinent example, they seem sincerely shocked that black men in Ferguson, Missouri are hassled more by the police. The obvious Occam’s Razor explanation that that’s because of the much higher crime rate, especially for murder, among black men simply does not seem to occur to them when they read the headlines.

Personally, I’m always trying to think through how truths we know from private life, such as those involving real estate, affect public life, such as criminal justice, and vice-versa. But lots of intelligent people rarely ever make this connection and seem to see the private and public as two completely separate intellectual domains. It’s just wrong to apply the knowledge you’ve gain in where to buy a condo and where to send your children to school to thinking critically about the doctrines of Black Lives Matter and Dr. Ibram X. Kendi.

Back to Verbruggen:

Further to the left, there certainly is a growing segment of “woke” folks who deny Murray’s truths, the ones who would eliminate standardized testing and blame racial differences in incarceration entirely on a biased justice system.

This extreme left is winning at eliminating standardized testing.

But even this ideology — obsessed with a subtle “systemic racism” that can perpetuate inequality even through colorblind rules and good-intentioned people — doesn’t have to deny the facts about test performance and violence, which can simply be seen as effects of systemic racism in themselves. Two Urban Institute re­searchers wrote last year, for example, that “violence and the disproportionate rates of victimization in Black communities” are “a product of structural racism.”

But Woke excuses sound more plausible when most Americans aren’t aware of the size of the gaps and assume there are only moderate gaps in line with differences in income and educational status. For example, I broke the news last September that blacks per capita in the FBI 2019 crime stats were 8.2 times more likely than nonblacks of all other races to be known murder offenders. I haven’t seen anybody in the MSM repeat that hatestat. Without actual numbers, it’s hard to think critically about Woke dogmas. For example, Hispanics are about as poor and undereducated as blacks, but have a much lower murder rate.

So, it may not really come as a shock to center-left Americans, and even some with more radical inclinations, that there are different levels of crime and academic performance among racial and ethnic groups.

But they don’t talk about it much.

Anyway, a fundamental problem is that the Woke Mainstream pursues solutions to the wrong problems. They don’t act as if deep-seated “structural racism” that causes blacks to act more violently and less intelligently is the real problem. If that were true, you’d want to continue to measure reality so you’d have evidence that your brilliant plan to dismantle structural racism is working as planned.

No, they act as if the problem is the cops arresting too many blacks and psychometric tests being unfairly biased against blacks, so they take destructive steps that, for example, drive up the black on black murder rate.

To me, the beginning of wisdom is “First, do no harm.”

But to the mainstream the beginning of wisdom is to assume that reality must concur with your hopes and wishes.

 
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  1. I’m a straight out racist, and yet whenever I find myself having to speak with anyone black, I automatically go into courtesy mode, even though I have a caustic personality, because that’s the upbringing I had in the optimistic ’60s. This is also true for upscale whites in places like Brookline or Los Altos, even if they’re not boomers, the point being that they never give themselves the opportunity to learn what blacks are like when they’re not getting their toes polished.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @BLESTO-V

    Where in America do you live that blacks work in manicure shops? Even in 90 percent black zip codes, the shops are owned and staffed by Asians.

    Proud to boast that I’m not at all deferential to blacks, especially black women. I pride myself in being just as nasty to them as they are to Whites. I love it.

    , @J.Ross
    @BLESTO-V

    I don't see "racism" (which here presumably has to do with policy, broad generalization, and expectations of the future) even overlapping with individual interaction. There is no hypocrisy or irony or notable item in always being courteous to individuals while worrying about group performance. It's maybe similar to how the only "equality" is a starting point in the application of law, but leftists deliberately misread this to conjure a false hypocrisy regarding outcomes.

    , @Rob Lee
    @BLESTO-V

    I once spoke to a real live CIA spook, who stated that one of the first things you learn in courses designed to increase your ability to expand your awareness (i.e., increase your skills in 'noticing patterns'), was to treat each and every interaction with another human being as a formal interview with the potential for developing said interview into an interrogation. Every interaction, from picking up your shirts at the cleaners and chatting with the clerk, to passing someone on the street, to dating another person (BIG interview implications here), to speaking with informants and / or other-state actors.

    The exercise of treating each and every human interaction as a consciously-focused interview - regardless of length or perceived importance - immediately sharpens your observation skills. Is this person lying; are they deceptive; are they attempting to empathize, etc.

    Try it sometime. Put yourself 'all in' on every human interaction with another person for one day. It will truly illuminate and inform your view of what we too often take for granted. You'll start to recognize the signs exhibited by the unaware, the confidence men, the fraudsters, the criminals, the empaths, etc., before they even open their mouths. Interactions with women, especially, become much more overtly educational. You start to notice that they watch very carefully for a sliver of opportunity to pigeonhole and place you, even in the most innocuous of interactions. You'll also start to notice - a big theme here lately - the 'crimestop duckspeak' automatons of the official narrative... they always try to catch themselves before they say something unorthodox.

    Replies: @Bert

  2. The Olympic Men’s 3-on-3 Basketball final was all white, with Latvia beating Russia for the gold medal:

    • Replies: @AndrewR
    @Anon

    >Russian

    >White

    , @Mr. Grey
    @Anon

    The original slaves!

    , @gandydancer
    @Anon


    The Olympic Men’s 3-on-3 Basketball final was all white, with Latvia beating Russia for the gold medal...
     
    I liked the idea (3 on 3 half court is actually the game I played) but I stopped watching at at 1:42 Three (four?) steps on the catch AND three steps on the layup?Watch it at .25 speed and tell me I'm wrong.

    The NBA game is bad enough on this score, I refuse to pay attention to worse.
  3. “To me, the beginning of wisdom is “First, do no harm.”

    As the mainstream is behaving as if stupidity were a virtue, this in turn is causing more harm by the hour, the year, and the decade.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    Since 1973, the motto of every White person in America should be “First check the black or Hispanic box depending on your surname”

  4. Verbruggen’s tone in the article sounds quite pained. Pained as in “Well, yes, obviously there are considerable gaps in the IQ and crime rates, but most everyone across the spectrum knows this. So why should we give Murray’s book any more attention than need be?” Sounds as if he’d prefer not to focus on these very uncomfortable topics. And such is the tone of Conservative Inc. these days.

    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi


    Sounds as if he’d prefer not to focus on these very uncomfortable topics.
     
    There is nothing uncomfortable about these topics.

    Replies: @res, @Joseph Doaks

    , @John Milton’s Ghost
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    That’s National Review in general since about 2008, if not 2000. I grew up with that magazine, and in my young adulthood, in the 1990s, it was still fearless in its willingness to take on the left’s sacred cows, as well as let right wingers have a variety of opinions. But then it became about war and unregulated global finance. I didn’t realize it until Barry O was elected, when every article felt like some kind of triangulation spinning exercise to sound right of left of right of center, and be fully respectable to any upper middle class Manhattan audience.

    Replies: @Bill

  5. People are quite capable of holding contradictory beliefs, especially when it’s in their interests to do so. Happens all the time.
    In this case, holding the contradiction is in their interests because, as elites, they need to lord it over the rest of us somehow. Solution: force us to live in diverse neighbourhoods and call us racist while they live in expensive, lily-white neighbourhoods and preen how non-racist they are.
    If the middle-class live happily in peaceful suburbs with good schools, what’s the point of being an elite? You can see why the mid-20th century economic evening-out bugged them.
    A lot of otherwise mysterious thought and behaviour makes sense when you keep in mind that there are two ways of distinguishing yourself: lifting yourself up or pushing others down. The latter is the norm in the Third World.

    • Agree: Cortes
    • Replies: @ben tillman
    @Nikolai Vladivostok


    In this case, holding the contradiction is in their interests because, as elites, they need to lord it over the rest of us somehow.
     
    No, they don't. Being elite (i.e., elected or chosen) is its own reward.

    A lot of otherwise mysterious thought and behaviour makes sense when you keep in mind that there are two ways of distinguishing yourself: lifting yourself up or pushing others down.
     
    Elites, by definition, do not need to push anyone else down.

    Replies: @Bert, @J.Ross, @res, @Stan d Mute

    , @Ghost of Bull Moose
    @Nikolai Vladivostok

    Upscale neighborhoods are not ‘lily white,’ which is part of how they rationalize their faith-based political views.

    There is Jack Pendergast’s wife over at Dumbarton Oaks, you know the high-caste Indian woman he married after the kids moved out and Carol divorced him? Then there’s that interesting Dr. Castenada on 31st, next to the Philips place? He teaches sociology over at Georgetown but I believe he’s taken a sabbatical to write his book on revolutionary Latin American poets. And of course the the Rafsanjanis in N street, but I believe they are away in Paris at the moment, she’s there with her uncle’s Persian art collection. And that lovely Mr Mobutu and his wife and what is it, five children now? Sally Quinn’s sister made a packet selling them that old manse with the awful plumbing.

    This is what these people mean by meritocracy. They have contempt for riff raff of all races. You just happen to be the local variety.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

  6. A new, useful acronym that addresses differences between group: IQ, “equity”, and “disparities” is the BEG: Brain Equity Gap. Goodthinkers should be questioned: “How can we fix the BEG?”

    • Replies: @Gunnar von Cowtown
    @Jenner Ickham Errican

    Simple! We can fix the brain equity gap by hitting all White and Asian kids on the head with a tack hammer immediately after birth. Problem solved.

    , @gandydancer
    @Jenner Ickham Errican


    Goodthinkers should be questioned: “How can we fix the [Brain Equity Gap]?”
     
    I forget who the author was, but that was answered more than half a century ago in a science fiction short story: Fit the mentally talented with earphones to periodically blast their thoughts with random loud noises. Simple.
  7. To me, the beginning of wisdom is “First, do no harm.”

    The first step to wisdom is to call things by their right names.

    • Replies: @3g4me
    @anon

    @7 anon[403]: The first step to wisdom is facing and accepting and reflecting reality. Then dealing with it. Accepting the black lack of intelligence and surfeit of violence may hurt their feelings, but boohoo - zero f&&&ks given.

  8. Anonymous[369] • Disclaimer says:

    Enoch Powell on Being Called A Racist | The Dick Cavett Show

    • Thanks: ziggurat, Desiderius
    • Replies: @interesting
    @Anonymous

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyZ7Q-ruVpo


    It took 50 year for the regular Brit to say the same thing Enoch said.

    , @Tono Bungay
    @Anonymous

    One of the great "if only's" of history: If only Enoch Powell had become prime minister!

  9. state them out loud in crude terms

    You know what’s crude?

    Lies.

  10. To me, the beginning of wisdom is “First, do no harm.”

    The beginning of wisdom is of course the Fear of the LORD.

    The end is “to me.”

  11. This.

    Is.

    America.

    • Replies: @Stan d Mute
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Sadly, I can show you what it will look like tomorrow. Today you can safely laugh from a safe distance at the African city on the Detriot River.

    https://youtu.be/PRHC_2QGNQE

    https://deadlinedetroit.com/articles/28449/leduff_video_shows_detroit_cops_running_away_and_then_there_s_a_rape_allegation

    And our general dysfunction:

    https://deadlinedetroit.com/articles/28488/leduff_all_the_canapes_in_the_world_can_t_cover_the_sour_taste_of_detroit_in_free_fall

    At last our boy Kwame is back home!

  12. Nobody really cares about blacks. If they did it would be different.
    The blacks murdered by other blacks do not matter.

    Those numbers are just another ignored statistic.
    If anyone cared they would crack down on the criminal population.

    But they don’t care. The blacks are just pawns in a game of power.
    The blacks themselves have no real power in this system.

    The Jews use them like the morons they are.
    Fighting for the very population that sold their ancestors into slavery.

    Charles Murray is a fossil. His day has long since past.
    White racial consciousness has arrived at last.

    Its amazing what an existential threat to one’s existence can accomplish.

    • Disagree: Alden
    • Replies: @Goddard
    @Dr. Doom


    White racial consciousness has arrived at last.
     
    No it has not. Sportsball is more popular than ever, the border is being overrun and no one is doing a thing about it, enlistments in the globohomo armed forces are as robust as ever, and white people are fat and tatted and are slurping up the crystal meth and fentanol. Whites continue to have the look of a people defeated in war and are but a shadow of the people they once were. Nothing less than a spiritual re-awakening is going to deliver whites from their predicament, and I see zero sign of it currently.

    Replies: @Uncle Dan, @Corvinus

  13. A pretty significant group of upper-middle-class whites move to white suburbs, send their kids to white schools, and become woke wine moms who support Black Lives Matter without suffering the consequences of their views. I really hope Biden pushes hard with his plans to try and stick a project in every one of those oases.

    • Agree: Stan d Mute
    • Replies: @bigdicknick
    @JimDandy

    very true. let's rebuild cabrini green in nantucket.

  14. It’s less clear that many Americans are unaware of these gaps …

    To begin with, I would posit that most Americans know about these problems, even if they’d rather not dwell on them or state them out loud in crude terms.

    Most Americans would not dare say them out loud in the mildest terms. Indeed, they would prefer to keep them shoved in the back of their heads for fear they might come out the front of their mouths. And that makes all the difference.

    If your defense attorney mumbles quietly and infrequently, but the prosecution is speaking clearly with energy, then your freedom is in jeopardy.

  15. Inequality of outcomes along racial lines is upsetting to everyone—it runs contrary to the hopes we have for our children and our nation.

    – from Khan’s review

    It is not.

    It does not.

    If blacks double their performance and whites treble theirs it is preposterous to say that runs contrary to anyone’s hopes for their own children or their own nation. If it does those aren’t your children and this isn’t your nation. Outcomes are not and cannot be merely positional goods.

    • Replies: @3g4me
    @Desiderius

    @15 Desiderius: Many of us would strenuously disagree with Khan that all those born on America's magic dirt are our countrymen. I would argue Numerica is not my nation. I don't particularly care about the welfare of black children, or Guatemalan children . . . living in Africa or Guatemala or Numerica. They are not my people. Now in my 60s, I am all out of compassion for anyone but my own people. They deserve it and can and will reciprocate it. God is responsible for all of earth's people; White Americans are not.

    Replies: @Joseph Doaks

    , @Uncle Dan
    @Desiderius

    Khan’s error is at the core of the present day hysteria. Inequality (or, if you prefer, diversity) of outcomes along racial lines is the unremarkable norm of human history. It ain’t broke, don’t fix it. If any individual aspires to a calling where there are few who “look like him,” fine. If he’s successful, fine. If he’s unsuccessful, also fine. Just nobody get in his way. And, basically, nobody has since Jackie Robinson stole home in 1947, to enthusiastic white cheers.

  16. Well, I never bothered reading The Bell Curve back in 1994 because the senior author, Richard Herrnstein, had been saying pretty much the same thing since 1970.

    All those issues have been already very well known by anyone interested in the subject for more than two generations now. Back in 1985 Herrnstein had also co-authored a fine book on racial differences in crime rates with James Q. Wilson entitled Crime and Human Nature.

    I’ll admit I haven’t read the new Charles Murray book, but I just don’t quite see the purpose of it. Wouldn’t a simple pamphlet with a few basic charts and graphs be just as useful?

    I think the one possible argument for such a book would be to attract enough media coverage, hostile or not, to get those ideas to the attention of individuals too young to have been around during the TBC controversy more than 25 years ago. But the opponents aren’t falling for that obvious trick and are just giving Murray’s book the “silent treatment,” which is the typical counter-strategy.

    I’ve been friendly with some very eminent journalists or scholars who suffered that same fate, and somehow desperately believed that one more column, raising a few different points or presenting them in a slightly different manner would somehow do the trick. But that’s merely wishful thinking—the fix is in….

    • Thanks: Alden
    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Ron Unz

    Murray’s book is short enough to be a glorified pamphlet.

    You can read it in one sitting.

    , @Anon
    @Ron Unz

    TROLL

    Steve, how did this comment get through moderation? "I never bothered reading TBC ...," "I'll admit I haven't read the new CM book ...."

    Steve, please pay more attention when you moderate to keep out comments like this that do not contribute to the discussion. (Although, if you're wearing cataract surgery eyeglasses, I realize that slips will happen.)

    Replies: @Alden, @Jack D

    , @Desiderius
    @Ron Unz


    by anyone interested in the subject
     
    Doing a lot of work here. The interest is the point. There are people whose interests are at profound risk who aren't nearly interested enough.

    Wouldn’t a simple pamphlet with a few basic charts and graphs be just as useful?
     
    It is a simple pamphlet with a few basic charts and graphs. Murray's book is flopping because he burned all his bridges to those whose help he needed to make it heard. It is power that gets one a hearing, not mere merit alone. Everyone of those 95 Theses had a princeling or merchant house (or better yet both) behind it. The Declaration was signed by men whose ample ambitions had been illegitimately thwarted by it's recipient.

    Big Chuck blew all that sucking up to femael University Presidents who hated him so much they incited riots against him to his face.
    , @Stan d Mute
    @Ron Unz


    I just don’t quite see the purpose of it. Wouldn’t a simple pamphlet with a few basic charts and graphs be just as useful?
     
    Not just as useful, but much more useful. In fact, a simple meme or two gets it done better still. Nobody is coming after Murray or his book. But they sure took down Anglin pretty effectively. Look at the effort they put into doxxing anyone who makes Murray’s points truly effectively.
    , @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia
    @Ron Unz


    But that’s merely wishful thinking—the fix is in….
     
    You bet it is Ron.

    The fix is ALSO in for the next Delta variant lockdown and school closings and having 10 years old wear masks in opened schools 7 hours a day.

    Because? Based upon TWO -- count 'em TWO --flawed studies, where one is from India and got rejected by Nature only to reappear as "revise and resubmit" once the CDC went out on limb and the second is based on study of an outbreak in Provincetown during Bear week, where a lot of gay males french kiss lots of other guys and have unprotected anal sex in a bacchanal that would makes the ancient Greeks blush.

    But they're counting on worry warts like you to line up and do the hokey pokey all over again.

    , @anonymous
    @Ron Unz

    I am 25 years old. I just read the new Charles Murray book. After I read it, I send him an email telling him how much I liked his book. He responded, and I think he was quite happy a 25 year old was reading his book.

  17. To me the beginning of wisdom is “Tell the truth.”

    Of course, that implies we have the freedom to think the truth, and right now the megaphone is working overtime to obliterate that fundamental human right. Room 101 is this way, sir.

  18. Very mysterious.

  19. Honestly, I’m growing weary of all the dilly-dallying.

    Just face it already: put me in absolute charge of this whole train wreck for sixteen months, and all the problems will vanish like morning dew. They aren’t really any more complicated than a Patti Smith record.

    As Marlon Brando famously said in Apocalypse Now: “If I had ten divisions of such men, our troubles here would be over with very, very quickly.”

    • Agree: ben tillman
    • Replies: @Gary in Gramercy
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    So the aphorism is correct: you can always tell a Harvard man, you just can't tell him much.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

  20. Anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz
    Well, I never bothered reading The Bell Curve back in 1994 because the senior author, Richard Herrnstein, had been saying pretty much the same thing since 1970.

    All those issues have been already very well known by anyone interested in the subject for more than two generations now. Back in 1985 Herrnstein had also co-authored a fine book on racial differences in crime rates with James Q. Wilson entitled Crime and Human Nature.

    I'll admit I haven't read the new Charles Murray book, but I just don't quite see the purpose of it. Wouldn't a simple pamphlet with a few basic charts and graphs be just as useful?

    I think the one possible argument for such a book would be to attract enough media coverage, hostile or not, to get those ideas to the attention of individuals too young to have been around during the TBC controversy more than 25 years ago. But the opponents aren't falling for that obvious trick and are just giving Murray's book the "silent treatment," which is the typical counter-strategy.

    I've been friendly with some very eminent journalists or scholars who suffered that same fate, and somehow desperately believed that one more column, raising a few different points or presenting them in a slightly different manner would somehow do the trick. But that's merely wishful thinking---the fix is in....

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anon, @Desiderius, @Stan d Mute, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @anonymous

    Murray’s book is short enough to be a glorified pamphlet.

    You can read it in one sitting.

  21. Anon[422] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz
    Well, I never bothered reading The Bell Curve back in 1994 because the senior author, Richard Herrnstein, had been saying pretty much the same thing since 1970.

    All those issues have been already very well known by anyone interested in the subject for more than two generations now. Back in 1985 Herrnstein had also co-authored a fine book on racial differences in crime rates with James Q. Wilson entitled Crime and Human Nature.

    I'll admit I haven't read the new Charles Murray book, but I just don't quite see the purpose of it. Wouldn't a simple pamphlet with a few basic charts and graphs be just as useful?

    I think the one possible argument for such a book would be to attract enough media coverage, hostile or not, to get those ideas to the attention of individuals too young to have been around during the TBC controversy more than 25 years ago. But the opponents aren't falling for that obvious trick and are just giving Murray's book the "silent treatment," which is the typical counter-strategy.

    I've been friendly with some very eminent journalists or scholars who suffered that same fate, and somehow desperately believed that one more column, raising a few different points or presenting them in a slightly different manner would somehow do the trick. But that's merely wishful thinking---the fix is in....

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anon, @Desiderius, @Stan d Mute, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @anonymous

    TROLL

    Steve, how did this comment get through moderation? “I never bothered reading TBC …,” “I’ll admit I haven’t read the new CM book ….”

    Steve, please pay more attention when you moderate to keep out comments like this that do not contribute to the discussion. (Although, if you’re wearing cataract surgery eyeglasses, I realize that slips will happen.)

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Anon

    Ron Unz made the very intelligent, wise, knowledgeable, sophisticated I guess is the word comment that all this fretting fuming fussing and studying the condition of blacks is futile.

    The elites and the bulk of the middle and working class are completely on the side of the blacks against the Whites. So is academia from pre school to university religion judiciary the media all businesses and all government agencies from local library boards to congress and the presidency. A few asian Hispanic Indians who’ve been victims of black crime are aware of the reality of American blacks. But those groups are all bloc voters for the anti White democrat party.

    There is not one element of American society that is not anti White.

    Except for the gun lobby. And that’s only because they won’t betray their White customers as every other American business has.

    American Whites are living in enemy territory.

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev

    , @Jack D
    @Anon

    Who is this Ron Unz character anyway? What kind of a pseudonym is that? What is his REAL name? Is it supposed to be some kind of pun? Does he have the verbal "runs"? Diarrhea of the keyboard, go on at length writing about books he hasn't actually read? Unz isn't even a word.

  22. “OK Boomer” is the only response to Murray’s pointless book.

    He tells us white identity is politics is eeeeeeeeebul! and thinks this somehow makes him potentially influential in the “mainstream” circles that despise us AND him.

    Pathetic.

    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Whereismyhandle

    The book is good and valuable, OKB is appropriate to Murray himself imagining he can still be a clubmember if he curses Trump and whites with enough vigor.

    , @D. K.
    @Whereismyhandle

    He's not a Boomer:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Murray_(political_scientist)

    Replies: @3g4me

  23. @NYTimes

    Hey guys still waiting for that front page book review. Did you misplace the copy I sent?

    As a reminder I am a Libertarian and fully against Whites acting collectively.

    I think everything will be fine once we tell Whites that the establishment has been lying to them.

    Just do a quick op-ed on how race is in fact real and everything your newspaper wrote about race was probably biased. I’m sure White people will understand.

    Your not racist pal,

    Chucky E Murray
    Racial Specialist and Sooper Graphing Expert

    • Replies: @Bert
    @John Johnson

    Virtue signaling to both sides is a fine art that Murray finally mastered.

  24. I’ve lost all hope for any kind of rational discourse that even vaguely resembles reality. If the cucked premise of this article were remotely true (“Everybody knows blacks people genetically have lower IQs but is too polite to emphasize it”) then our politics would be much less retarded. Conservatives may never win but we don’t have to disrespect ourselves by living by the other side’s lies. Like Havel’s greengrocer these fools debase themselves. They will also find out that even these mealy mouthed half-hearted statements of slight disagreement with orthodoxy are ultimately cancelable, as well. Pathetic.

  25. For example, I broke the news last September that blacks per capita in the FBI 2019 crime stats were 8.2 times more likely than nonblacks of all other races to be known murder offenders.

    That wasn’t really news.

    You also told us that the black-white murder-rate difference was greater than the man-woman murder-rate difference. *That* was news.

  26. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Verbruggen's tone in the article sounds quite pained. Pained as in "Well, yes, obviously there are considerable gaps in the IQ and crime rates, but most everyone across the spectrum knows this. So why should we give Murray's book any more attention than need be?" Sounds as if he'd prefer not to focus on these very uncomfortable topics. And such is the tone of Conservative Inc. these days.

    Replies: @ben tillman, @John Milton’s Ghost

    Sounds as if he’d prefer not to focus on these very uncomfortable topics.

    There is nothing uncomfortable about these topics.

    • Replies: @res
    @ben tillman


    There is nothing uncomfortable about these topics.
     
    Untrue for the vast majority of people in this country (at least in public). Not to mention the media.

    It is important to understand that because it is the primary obstacle to discussing them honestly.
    , @Joseph Doaks
    @ben tillman

    "There is nothing uncomfortable about these topics."

    Correct. Allowing the left to censor us by buying in to their politically correct language allows them to win the argument by default.

  27. @Nikolai Vladivostok
    People are quite capable of holding contradictory beliefs, especially when it's in their interests to do so. Happens all the time.
    In this case, holding the contradiction is in their interests because, as elites, they need to lord it over the rest of us somehow. Solution: force us to live in diverse neighbourhoods and call us racist while they live in expensive, lily-white neighbourhoods and preen how non-racist they are.
    If the middle-class live happily in peaceful suburbs with good schools, what's the point of being an elite? You can see why the mid-20th century economic evening-out bugged them.
    A lot of otherwise mysterious thought and behaviour makes sense when you keep in mind that there are two ways of distinguishing yourself: lifting yourself up or pushing others down. The latter is the norm in the Third World.

    Replies: @ben tillman, @Ghost of Bull Moose

    In this case, holding the contradiction is in their interests because, as elites, they need to lord it over the rest of us somehow.

    No, they don’t. Being elite (i.e., elected or chosen) is its own reward.

    A lot of otherwise mysterious thought and behaviour makes sense when you keep in mind that there are two ways of distinguishing yourself: lifting yourself up or pushing others down.

    Elites, by definition, do not need to push anyone else down.

    • Disagree: bomag
    • Replies: @Bert
    @ben tillman

    Elites exist in every organization, and they rise to that state by upwards ass-kissing and downwards ass-kicking. You must have lived in a bubble. You couldn't have ever experienced either academic or corporate life to hold such a static view of what constitutes "elite."

    , @J.Ross
    @ben tillman

    True elites don't need to attack people but their idiot children and worthless grandchildren are another story.

    , @res
    @ben tillman


    Elites, by definition, do not need to push anyone else down.
     
    Really? Seems like one of the primary means of maintaining one's elite status.

    P.S. Perhaps more true of "elites" than people who really are elite.

    , @Stan d Mute
    @ben tillman


    Elites, by definition, do not need to push anyone else down.
     
    True, but we have a superabundance of pretenders who are seen and accepted by our media and society as “elites”.

    In what clown world is a man who plays children’s games for a living or a woman who plays pretend for a living an actual elite? Our clown world.

    🤡

    When you have no merit underlying your elite status, you must beat down on those who do.
  28. to the mainstream the beginning of wisdom is to assume that reality must concur with your hopes and wishes

    Carefully thought-through difficult problems finally appear to look simple. – That’s one of the most important accomplishments, virtuous writing (= thinking) can achieve.

  29. Waiting for “Meritocracy IS Racist” in National Review.

    • Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country
    @Redneck farmer

    "The Conservative Case for Putting Whites in Re-education Camps" - National Review

  30. On the other hand, their awareness of the existence of racial gaps seems to vanish when it comes to matters of public policy not personally affecting them.

    It’s rat-like behavior. Yuppies and Hipsters do it all the time.

    But lots of intelligent people rarely ever make this connection and seem to see the private and public as two completely separate intellectual domains.

    Because they don’t care about other Americans. They aren’t good countrymen. The fate of some White American living elsewhere is as interesting to them as some guy living in the Philippines. What’s it got to do with buying a new high status car?

  31. @Anonymous
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7Zfvcb3mWI
    Enoch Powell on Being Called A Racist | The Dick Cavett Show

    Replies: @interesting, @Tono Bungay

    It took 50 year for the regular Brit to say the same thing Enoch said.

    • Thanks: ziggurat
  32. The problem with Murray is that he is looking downwards and simply stating the obvious and is of not much interest. Everyone instinctively knows about the intelligence gap, especially blacks.

    While gazing downwards does have some minor interest, it is far more important for whites to gaze upwards. Whites must recognise and ameliorate the intelligence, achievement, and most crucially, power gap with those groups ABOVE them. It is the cognitive elite, as we see with the current vaxx debacle, who represent the true danger to everyday whites. It is exactly Murray’s class, writ large, who imported both blacks and more recently other diverse mystery meat into the US in order to avoid paying fair wages to whitey.

    Everyday whites would do much better to use magical Negros as a battering ram against the cognitive elite, writ large. Everyday whites understand black people much more profoundly than elites do anyway.

    • Replies: @NOTA
    @Torn and Frayed

    Yeah, Murray should really write a big long book on the rise of the cognitive elite and its consequences for America.

  33. Anonymous[402] • Disclaimer says:

    It’s all about deceit, denial, virtue signalling, status gaming, gullibility, herd instinct, NIMBYism, cowardice, fanaticism, outright lying, bullying etc etc in varying proportions.

    What makes it really pernicious is the rare combination of cowardice rewarded by status. That is, cowardice alone by itself, is now lauded the way courage was once rewarded. The same might be said of gullibility versus shrewdness.

    • Agree: AnotherDad
  34. @BLESTO-V
    I'm a straight out racist, and yet whenever I find myself having to speak with anyone black, I automatically go into courtesy mode, even though I have a caustic personality, because that's the upbringing I had in the optimistic '60s. This is also true for upscale whites in places like Brookline or Los Altos, even if they're not boomers, the point being that they never give themselves the opportunity to learn what blacks are like when they're not getting their toes polished.

    Replies: @Alden, @J.Ross, @Rob Lee

    Where in America do you live that blacks work in manicure shops? Even in 90 percent black zip codes, the shops are owned and staffed by Asians.

    Proud to boast that I’m not at all deferential to blacks, especially black women. I pride myself in being just as nasty to them as they are to Whites. I love it.

  35. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    "To me, the beginning of wisdom is “First, do no harm.”

    As the mainstream is behaving as if stupidity were a virtue, this in turn is causing more harm by the hour, the year, and the decade.

    Replies: @Alden

    Since 1973, the motto of every White person in America should be “First check the black or Hispanic box depending on your surname”

  36. @Anon
    @Ron Unz

    TROLL

    Steve, how did this comment get through moderation? "I never bothered reading TBC ...," "I'll admit I haven't read the new CM book ...."

    Steve, please pay more attention when you moderate to keep out comments like this that do not contribute to the discussion. (Although, if you're wearing cataract surgery eyeglasses, I realize that slips will happen.)

    Replies: @Alden, @Jack D

    Ron Unz made the very intelligent, wise, knowledgeable, sophisticated I guess is the word comment that all this fretting fuming fussing and studying the condition of blacks is futile.

    The elites and the bulk of the middle and working class are completely on the side of the blacks against the Whites. So is academia from pre school to university religion judiciary the media all businesses and all government agencies from local library boards to congress and the presidency. A few asian Hispanic Indians who’ve been victims of black crime are aware of the reality of American blacks. But those groups are all bloc voters for the anti White democrat party.

    There is not one element of American society that is not anti White.

    Except for the gun lobby. And that’s only because they won’t betray their White customers as every other American business has.

    American Whites are living in enemy territory.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    @Alden

    Except for the gun lobby

    Hah! The gun lobby is why American blacks are armed and dangerous. We have problems with blacks in Europe but we don’t give them guns. We have laws that make it easy enough for white natives to own guns, not immigrants or dangerous criminal types. The 2nd Amendment is a joke.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Joe Stalin, @John Johnson

  37. @Anonymous
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7Zfvcb3mWI
    Enoch Powell on Being Called A Racist | The Dick Cavett Show

    Replies: @interesting, @Tono Bungay

    One of the great “if only’s” of history: If only Enoch Powell had become prime minister!

    • Agree: Joseph Doaks
  38. VerBruggen’s consistently obtuse. Consider this:

    And to go along with any suggestion of eliminating affirmative action, I would have laid out an aggressive, colorblind policy platform to reduce crime, reform policing, improve schools, and end restrictive zoning laws that entrench segregation and hinder upward mobility.

    1. “restrictive zoning laws that entrench segregation and hinder upward mobility” do not exist. The problem with land use planning in this country has to do with its poor aesthetics and its effectiveness (or not) at generating efficient traffic flow. Hasn’t a blessed thing to do with segregation or ‘upward mobility’. The one element that did was restrictive covenants on real estate, which were on the books and enforced (here, there, and the next place) during the period running from 1910 to 1948. Robert VerBruggen (b. 1982) is the son of David VerBruggen (b. 1955), who is the son of Norbert VerBruggen (b. 1934). None of them are of a vintage to have purchased a house with an enforceable restrictive covenant on the deed (even were there ever such things in Green Bay, Wisconsin).

    2. Office plankton like VerBruggen have nothing to contribute to any project of improving police procedure, even if they were speaking in good faith.

    3. His program will face vociferous objections from occupational guilds and politicians for reasons he shows no evidence of having pondered.

    • Agree: Desiderius, J.Ross
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Art Deco


    VerBruggen’s consistently obtuse.
     
    That's what they pay the man for.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @Jack D
    @Art Deco


    I would have laid out an aggressive, colorblind policy platform to reduce crime, reform policing, improve schools, and end restrictive zoning laws that entrench segregation and hinder upward mobility.
     
    In other words, the RINO agenda is the same as the Democrat agenda, except we should implement it a little slower. And people wonder why the Republican party doesn't really exist anymore outside of Trumpism?

    "Reduce crime, reform policing, improve schools" - gee, why hasn't anyone thought of this before? Such obvious solutions and yet no one except for this genius has proposed them before. Did Rip Van Bruggen just awake from a 50 year slumber?

    We know how to reduce crime - it's called "broken windows policing" and "stop and frisk". Black people don't really want reduced crime - it interferes with their ability to do their thang. You can do everything possible to reduce crime except for anything that actually reduces crime, like putting criminals in jail.

    As for "improve schools", we've spent maybe a trillion $ on improving "urban" schools and they haven't really improved. We don't need improved schools, we need improved students and the window for improving largely closes 9 months prior to their birth. Any future advance toward your goal line starts out behind the other end zone so very few touchdowns are scored.

    Replies: @NOTA, @Art Deco, @bigdicknick

  39. @Ron Unz
    Well, I never bothered reading The Bell Curve back in 1994 because the senior author, Richard Herrnstein, had been saying pretty much the same thing since 1970.

    All those issues have been already very well known by anyone interested in the subject for more than two generations now. Back in 1985 Herrnstein had also co-authored a fine book on racial differences in crime rates with James Q. Wilson entitled Crime and Human Nature.

    I'll admit I haven't read the new Charles Murray book, but I just don't quite see the purpose of it. Wouldn't a simple pamphlet with a few basic charts and graphs be just as useful?

    I think the one possible argument for such a book would be to attract enough media coverage, hostile or not, to get those ideas to the attention of individuals too young to have been around during the TBC controversy more than 25 years ago. But the opponents aren't falling for that obvious trick and are just giving Murray's book the "silent treatment," which is the typical counter-strategy.

    I've been friendly with some very eminent journalists or scholars who suffered that same fate, and somehow desperately believed that one more column, raising a few different points or presenting them in a slightly different manner would somehow do the trick. But that's merely wishful thinking---the fix is in....

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anon, @Desiderius, @Stan d Mute, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @anonymous

    by anyone interested in the subject

    Doing a lot of work here. The interest is the point. There are people whose interests are at profound risk who aren’t nearly interested enough.

    Wouldn’t a simple pamphlet with a few basic charts and graphs be just as useful?

    It is a simple pamphlet with a few basic charts and graphs. Murray’s book is flopping because he burned all his bridges to those whose help he needed to make it heard. It is power that gets one a hearing, not mere merit alone. Everyone of those 95 Theses had a princeling or merchant house (or better yet both) behind it. The Declaration was signed by men whose ample ambitions had been illegitimately thwarted by it’s recipient.

    Big Chuck blew all that sucking up to femael University Presidents who hated him so much they incited riots against him to his face.

  40. @Art Deco
    VerBruggen's consistently obtuse. Consider this:


    And to go along with any suggestion of eliminating affirmative action, I would have laid out an aggressive, colorblind policy platform to reduce crime, reform policing, improve schools, and end restrictive zoning laws that entrench segregation and hinder upward mobility.


    1. "restrictive zoning laws that entrench segregation and hinder upward mobility" do not exist. The problem with land use planning in this country has to do with its poor aesthetics and its effectiveness (or not) at generating efficient traffic flow. Hasn't a blessed thing to do with segregation or 'upward mobility'. The one element that did was restrictive covenants on real estate, which were on the books and enforced (here, there, and the next place) during the period running from 1910 to 1948. Robert VerBruggen (b. 1982) is the son of David VerBruggen (b. 1955), who is the son of Norbert VerBruggen (b. 1934). None of them are of a vintage to have purchased a house with an enforceable restrictive covenant on the deed (even were there ever such things in Green Bay, Wisconsin).

    2. Office plankton like VerBruggen have nothing to contribute to any project of improving police procedure, even if they were speaking in good faith.

    3. His program will face vociferous objections from occupational guilds and politicians for reasons he shows no evidence of having pondered.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Jack D

    VerBruggen’s consistently obtuse.

    That’s what they pay the man for.

    • Agree: Gordo
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Desiderius

    Upton Sinclair said,


    It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.
     
    Or, in modern terms,


    It is difficult to get a person to understand something when his/her/xer salary depends upon his/her/xer not understanding it.

    Replies: @ic1000

  41. @Dr. Doom
    Nobody really cares about blacks. If they did it would be different.
    The blacks murdered by other blacks do not matter.

    Those numbers are just another ignored statistic.
    If anyone cared they would crack down on the criminal population.

    But they don't care. The blacks are just pawns in a game of power.
    The blacks themselves have no real power in this system.

    The Jews use them like the morons they are.
    Fighting for the very population that sold their ancestors into slavery.

    Charles Murray is a fossil. His day has long since past.
    White racial consciousness has arrived at last.

    Its amazing what an existential threat to one's existence can accomplish.

    Replies: @Goddard

    White racial consciousness has arrived at last.

    No it has not. Sportsball is more popular than ever, the border is being overrun and no one is doing a thing about it, enlistments in the globohomo armed forces are as robust as ever, and white people are fat and tatted and are slurping up the crystal meth and fentanol. Whites continue to have the look of a people defeated in war and are but a shadow of the people they once were. Nothing less than a spiritual re-awakening is going to deliver whites from their predicament, and I see zero sign of it currently.

    • Agree: Bert
    • Replies: @Uncle Dan
    @Goddard

    Your description reminds me of what happened to the Indians after they were defeated.

    Replies: @Goddard

    , @Corvinus
    @Goddard

    "Sportsball is more popular than ever..."

    As well as it ought to be for white men and white women.

    "Whites continue to have the look of a people defeated in war and are but a shadow of the people they once were."

    Or maybe they are even stronger than what you are portraying them to be merely because they are making their own decisions about race and culture that you oppose.

    "Nothing less than a spiritual re-awakening is going to deliver whites from their predicament, and I see zero sign of it currently."

    Thank you for your virtue signaling.

  42. most Americans know about these problems, even if they’d rather not dwell on them or state them out loud in crude terms

    This is a hilarious interpretation of reality. Everyone knows about black crime and low intelligence but we’d “rather not dwell on them”. It’s something distasteful like when your granny farts at the dinner table but you can’t call her on it (“out loud in crude terms”).

    OR maybe, we are living in a totalitarian environment and if you dare to say anything, you lose your job and all your friends shun you for fear of losing theirs as well? It’s not that they would “rather not”, it’s that they are pee-in-their-pants afraid of saying anything publicly lest they be declared unpersons.

    I could see Khan writing about Moscow in 1936:

    “Most Russians know about the problems with Stalin, even if they’d rather not dwell on them or state them out loud in crude terms.”

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @Jack D


    I could see Khan writing about
     
    The quote is from Robert VerBruggen's review in National Review, not Razib Khan's review in Quillette. All the above quotes are from VerBruggen.
    , @Art Deco
    @Jack D

    What verBruggen is refusing to dwell on is the cultural dynamic which has made most of the political class antagonistic to doing sensible things and now hell for leather in favor of doing perverse and destructive things. He also does not dwell on the large mass of rank-and-file Americans who sit on their hands and let them do it (and escalating corruption of the electoral process which will prevent even motivated rank-and-file from tossing bad actors out). Some of the coda at the end is all very well and good (though underdeveloped), but he's not asking why the situation at present is such that if you were to expect public officials to restore a status quo ante 2014 you'd be wildly optimistic.

    Replies: @Jack D

    , @John Johnson
    @Jack D

    This is a hilarious interpretation of reality. Everyone knows about black crime and low intelligence but we’d “rather not dwell on them”. It’s something distasteful like when your granny farts at the dinner table but you can’t call her on it (“out loud in crude terms”).

    OR maybe, we are living in a totalitarian environment and if you dare to say anything, you lose your job and all your friends shun you for fear of losing theirs as well? It’s not that they would “rather not”, it’s that they are pee-in-their-pants afraid of saying anything publicly lest they be declared unpersons.

    There is truth in all of it. We do have totalitarian systems in the colleges and media that will ruin your career and name if you speak honestly about race.

    But the majority of liberals and conservatives that have lived near Blacks (not a friendly mulatto neighbor but a Black area) take the position that we should lie about it because of PC/Christianity/whatever. They would support that position voluntarily. This group though is less than 25% of Whites, probably closer to 10% I would guess.

    Most White people really do believe what they are told in church/schools and most importantly on TV which is that race doesn't exist or isn't significant enough to cause unequal outcomes. Those outcomes are either caused by Bad White Men (liberal explanation) or socialism/lack of morals (conservative explanation).

    In college I was really disappointed by the conservatives that I met. So many really believed that Christian morals and the free market could fix everything including racial inequality. It was shocking and I really expected more to have a different view in private.

    I have actually had more liberals admit privately that it is a lie. Most liberals that have lived near Blacks will privately admit it is a lie if they trust you. Or just give them a few drinks and let them do the talking. A lot of them have pent up frustrations with having to constantly lie about reality. It really isn't good for the psyche. But they all think that society will revert to some Nazi extreme if we stop lying. The truly disturbing part is how many believe in lying to their children. I could never get over that aspect. They knew it was based on lies and still were willing to sacrifice their children if needed. Sickening. Christian conservatives at least put their kids in private schools if they live in a sketchy area.

  43. @Desiderius
    @Art Deco


    VerBruggen’s consistently obtuse.
     
    That's what they pay the man for.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Upton Sinclair said,

    It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.

    Or, in modern terms,

    It is difficult to get a person to understand something when his/her/xer salary depends upon his/her/xer not understanding it.

    • Replies: @ic1000
    @Jack D

    > Upton Sinclair said...

    Interesting. I'd always thought that Mx. Sinclair was highlighting the shortcomings of cisgendered males, compared with the better sorts of persons.

  44. @Anon
    @Ron Unz

    TROLL

    Steve, how did this comment get through moderation? "I never bothered reading TBC ...," "I'll admit I haven't read the new CM book ...."

    Steve, please pay more attention when you moderate to keep out comments like this that do not contribute to the discussion. (Although, if you're wearing cataract surgery eyeglasses, I realize that slips will happen.)

    Replies: @Alden, @Jack D

    Who is this Ron Unz character anyway? What kind of a pseudonym is that? What is his REAL name? Is it supposed to be some kind of pun? Does he have the verbal “runs”? Diarrhea of the keyboard, go on at length writing about books he hasn’t actually read? Unz isn’t even a word.

  45. @BLESTO-V
    I'm a straight out racist, and yet whenever I find myself having to speak with anyone black, I automatically go into courtesy mode, even though I have a caustic personality, because that's the upbringing I had in the optimistic '60s. This is also true for upscale whites in places like Brookline or Los Altos, even if they're not boomers, the point being that they never give themselves the opportunity to learn what blacks are like when they're not getting their toes polished.

    Replies: @Alden, @J.Ross, @Rob Lee

    I don’t see “racism” (which here presumably has to do with policy, broad generalization, and expectations of the future) even overlapping with individual interaction. There is no hypocrisy or irony or notable item in always being courteous to individuals while worrying about group performance. It’s maybe similar to how the only “equality” is a starting point in the application of law, but leftists deliberately misread this to conjure a false hypocrisy regarding outcomes.

  46. @Whereismyhandle
    "OK Boomer" is the only response to Murray's pointless book.

    He tells us white identity is politics is eeeeeeeeebul! and thinks this somehow makes him potentially influential in the "mainstream" circles that despise us AND him.

    Pathetic.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @D. K.

    The book is good and valuable, OKB is appropriate to Murray himself imagining he can still be a clubmember if he curses Trump and whites with enough vigor.

  47. @ben tillman
    @Nikolai Vladivostok


    In this case, holding the contradiction is in their interests because, as elites, they need to lord it over the rest of us somehow.
     
    No, they don't. Being elite (i.e., elected or chosen) is its own reward.

    A lot of otherwise mysterious thought and behaviour makes sense when you keep in mind that there are two ways of distinguishing yourself: lifting yourself up or pushing others down.
     
    Elites, by definition, do not need to push anyone else down.

    Replies: @Bert, @J.Ross, @res, @Stan d Mute

    Elites exist in every organization, and they rise to that state by upwards ass-kissing and downwards ass-kicking. You must have lived in a bubble. You couldn’t have ever experienced either academic or corporate life to hold such a static view of what constitutes “elite.”

  48. @Jack D

    most Americans know about these problems, even if they’d rather not dwell on them or state them out loud in crude terms
     
    This is a hilarious interpretation of reality. Everyone knows about black crime and low intelligence but we'd "rather not dwell on them". It's something distasteful like when your granny farts at the dinner table but you can't call her on it ("out loud in crude terms").

    OR maybe, we are living in a totalitarian environment and if you dare to say anything, you lose your job and all your friends shun you for fear of losing theirs as well? It's not that they would "rather not", it's that they are pee-in-their-pants afraid of saying anything publicly lest they be declared unpersons.

    I could see Khan writing about Moscow in 1936:

    "Most Russians know about the problems with Stalin, even if they’d rather not dwell on them or state them out loud in crude terms."

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @Art Deco, @John Johnson

    I could see Khan writing about

    The quote is from Robert VerBruggen’s review in National Review, not Razib Khan’s review in Quillette. All the above quotes are from VerBruggen.

  49. @John Johnson
    @NYTimes

    Hey guys still waiting for that front page book review. Did you misplace the copy I sent?

    As a reminder I am a Libertarian and fully against Whites acting collectively.

    I think everything will be fine once we tell Whites that the establishment has been lying to them.

    Just do a quick op-ed on how race is in fact real and everything your newspaper wrote about race was probably biased. I'm sure White people will understand.

    Your not racist pal,

    Chucky E Murray
    Racial Specialist and Sooper Graphing Expert

    Replies: @Bert

    Virtue signaling to both sides is a fine art that Murray finally mastered.

    • Agree: John Johnson
    • LOL: ben tillman
  50. @Jack D
    @Desiderius

    Upton Sinclair said,


    It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.
     
    Or, in modern terms,


    It is difficult to get a person to understand something when his/her/xer salary depends upon his/her/xer not understanding it.

    Replies: @ic1000

    > Upton Sinclair said…

    Interesting. I’d always thought that Mx. Sinclair was highlighting the shortcomings of cisgendered males, compared with the better sorts of persons.

  51. @ben tillman
    @Nikolai Vladivostok


    In this case, holding the contradiction is in their interests because, as elites, they need to lord it over the rest of us somehow.
     
    No, they don't. Being elite (i.e., elected or chosen) is its own reward.

    A lot of otherwise mysterious thought and behaviour makes sense when you keep in mind that there are two ways of distinguishing yourself: lifting yourself up or pushing others down.
     
    Elites, by definition, do not need to push anyone else down.

    Replies: @Bert, @J.Ross, @res, @Stan d Mute

    True elites don’t need to attack people but their idiot children and worthless grandchildren are another story.

  52. What is the target audience for such an argument? Murray says one group is a special priority: “people on the center-left who are liberals in the tradition that extended from FDR through Bill Clinton and included Senator Joe Biden.”

    And haven’t you noticed all those FDR-style center leftists rushing to Murray’s defense and writing glowing reviews?

    /Sarc

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @countenance

    See Jimmy Carter, Michael Dukakis, Gary Hart and the recently deceased Walter Mondale. They've had nothing to lose, so why haven't they said jack about the atrocious conduct of Democratic politicians, security state apparatchiks, and tech companies? Or is what they say just never reported?

    What about the goo goo groups which were so prominent ca. 1979 - Common Cause, the League of Women Voters, Public Citizen &c? Well, the goo-goo groups are propagating the 'voter suppression' nonsense and the Naderites in particular are actively promoting institutionalized vote fraud.


    What you see in Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Bari Weiss, and Andrew Sullivan is a set of lone wolves who actually did have something resembling fixed standards.

    Replies: @countenance

  53. Charles Murray straight up backboard breaking slam dunked on David “controlled opposition” French on twitter yesterday as I am sure many people on here saw. Good stuff!

    • Replies: @David In TN
    @bigdicknick

    French isn't even the "controlled opposition" any more. He's "the conservative case for agreeing with the Left."

    , @MEH 0910
    @bigdicknick

    https://twitter.com/charlesmurray/status/1421073352886718468
    https://twitter.com/swinshi/status/1421195997577875456
    https://twitter.com/BDMurray/status/1421394689958334466

    Obtuse son Bennett doesn't understand that father Charles is being a hero with those tweets. Charles Murray is laying out for reckless "conservative" David French something he really needs to hear and take to heart.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @res, @MEH 0910

  54. National Review sent out Verbruggen to review Caldwell and now Murray and both times he reviewed the book he would’ve written if he had written the book. It must be so frustrating as an author to have somebody like Verbruggen take the tone of “well this isn’t the book I would’ve written.” Yeah no kidding it’s not your book.

  55. @countenance
    What is the target audience for such an argument? Murray says one group is a special priority: “people on the center-left who are liberals in the tradition that extended from FDR through Bill Clinton and included Senator Joe Biden.”

    And haven't you noticed all those FDR-style center leftists rushing to Murray's defense and writing glowing reviews?

    /Sarc

    Replies: @Art Deco

    See Jimmy Carter, Michael Dukakis, Gary Hart and the recently deceased Walter Mondale. They’ve had nothing to lose, so why haven’t they said jack about the atrocious conduct of Democratic politicians, security state apparatchiks, and tech companies? Or is what they say just never reported?

    What about the goo goo groups which were so prominent ca. 1979 – Common Cause, the League of Women Voters, Public Citizen &c? Well, the goo-goo groups are propagating the ‘voter suppression’ nonsense and the Naderites in particular are actively promoting institutionalized vote fraud.

    What you see in Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Bari Weiss, and Andrew Sullivan is a set of lone wolves who actually did have something resembling fixed standards.

    • Replies: @countenance
    @Art Deco

    The FDR-style liberals had a lot more power back in 1994 when TBC came out, including one that Murray named personally that happened to be President of the United States at the time. And I don't remember them rushing to his and Herrnstein's defense back then. Mostly they contributed to the pile on of hate.

    Replies: @Art Deco

  56. But lots of intelligent people rarely ever make this connection and seem to see the private and public as two completely separate intellectual domains.

    Groupthink is about conformity rather than critical reasoning.

    People also ignore the power of suggestion. After hundreds of reports, studies, poems, books, plays, movies, and television shows, America is supposed be a “racist” country where blacks are perpetual innocent victims.

  57. @Whereismyhandle
    "OK Boomer" is the only response to Murray's pointless book.

    He tells us white identity is politics is eeeeeeeeebul! and thinks this somehow makes him potentially influential in the "mainstream" circles that despise us AND him.

    Pathetic.

    Replies: @J.Ross, @D. K.

    • Replies: @3g4me
    @D. K.

    @43 D. K. And the train is fine. Boomer.

  58. @Jack D

    most Americans know about these problems, even if they’d rather not dwell on them or state them out loud in crude terms
     
    This is a hilarious interpretation of reality. Everyone knows about black crime and low intelligence but we'd "rather not dwell on them". It's something distasteful like when your granny farts at the dinner table but you can't call her on it ("out loud in crude terms").

    OR maybe, we are living in a totalitarian environment and if you dare to say anything, you lose your job and all your friends shun you for fear of losing theirs as well? It's not that they would "rather not", it's that they are pee-in-their-pants afraid of saying anything publicly lest they be declared unpersons.

    I could see Khan writing about Moscow in 1936:

    "Most Russians know about the problems with Stalin, even if they’d rather not dwell on them or state them out loud in crude terms."

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @Art Deco, @John Johnson

    What verBruggen is refusing to dwell on is the cultural dynamic which has made most of the political class antagonistic to doing sensible things and now hell for leather in favor of doing perverse and destructive things. He also does not dwell on the large mass of rank-and-file Americans who sit on their hands and let them do it (and escalating corruption of the electoral process which will prevent even motivated rank-and-file from tossing bad actors out). Some of the coda at the end is all very well and good (though underdeveloped), but he’s not asking why the situation at present is such that if you were to expect public officials to restore a status quo ante 2014 you’d be wildly optimistic.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Art Deco


    if you were to expect public officials to restore a status quo ante 2014 you’d be wildly optimistic.
     
    The irony is that if any Republican candidate were to adopt the Joe Biden agenda circa 2014 then he'd be called a vicious, beyond the pale, racist. Meanwhile, Joe Biden himself gets a complete pass for his prior positions. A brief mea culpa and all is forgiven and forgotten by the MSM. Meanwhile, Republicans are held to account for things that they said 20 years ago in high school and legions of hacks are poring over every word they have ever written. Of course Biden doesn't have to worry about that because the clay tablets that we wrote on back when he was in high school have all disintegrated by now.
  59. @JimDandy
    A pretty significant group of upper-middle-class whites move to white suburbs, send their kids to white schools, and become woke wine moms who support Black Lives Matter without suffering the consequences of their views. I really hope Biden pushes hard with his plans to try and stick a project in every one of those oases.

    Replies: @bigdicknick

    very true. let’s rebuild cabrini green in nantucket.

  60. @Art Deco
    VerBruggen's consistently obtuse. Consider this:


    And to go along with any suggestion of eliminating affirmative action, I would have laid out an aggressive, colorblind policy platform to reduce crime, reform policing, improve schools, and end restrictive zoning laws that entrench segregation and hinder upward mobility.


    1. "restrictive zoning laws that entrench segregation and hinder upward mobility" do not exist. The problem with land use planning in this country has to do with its poor aesthetics and its effectiveness (or not) at generating efficient traffic flow. Hasn't a blessed thing to do with segregation or 'upward mobility'. The one element that did was restrictive covenants on real estate, which were on the books and enforced (here, there, and the next place) during the period running from 1910 to 1948. Robert VerBruggen (b. 1982) is the son of David VerBruggen (b. 1955), who is the son of Norbert VerBruggen (b. 1934). None of them are of a vintage to have purchased a house with an enforceable restrictive covenant on the deed (even were there ever such things in Green Bay, Wisconsin).

    2. Office plankton like VerBruggen have nothing to contribute to any project of improving police procedure, even if they were speaking in good faith.

    3. His program will face vociferous objections from occupational guilds and politicians for reasons he shows no evidence of having pondered.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Jack D

    I would have laid out an aggressive, colorblind policy platform to reduce crime, reform policing, improve schools, and end restrictive zoning laws that entrench segregation and hinder upward mobility.

    In other words, the RINO agenda is the same as the Democrat agenda, except we should implement it a little slower. And people wonder why the Republican party doesn’t really exist anymore outside of Trumpism?

    “Reduce crime, reform policing, improve schools” – gee, why hasn’t anyone thought of this before? Such obvious solutions and yet no one except for this genius has proposed them before. Did Rip Van Bruggen just awake from a 50 year slumber?

    We know how to reduce crime – it’s called “broken windows policing” and “stop and frisk”. Black people don’t really want reduced crime – it interferes with their ability to do their thang. You can do everything possible to reduce crime except for anything that actually reduces crime, like putting criminals in jail.

    As for “improve schools”, we’ve spent maybe a trillion $ on improving “urban” schools and they haven’t really improved. We don’t need improved schools, we need improved students and the window for improving largely closes 9 months prior to their birth. Any future advance toward your goal line starts out behind the other end zone so very few touchdowns are scored.

    • Replies: @NOTA
    @Jack D

    From all rhe surveys I’ve seen, most blacks in America very much want reduced crime and more police on the streets to reduce it. The professional activist/race hustler/black spokesman class has radically different incentives and concerns.

    Replies: @Mr. Grey

    , @Art Deco
    @Jack D

    Black people don’t really want reduced crime – it interferes with their ability to do their thang.

    You're confusing rank-and-file blacks with black politicians and institutional apparatchiks.


    As for “improve schools”, we’ve spent maybe a trillion $ on improving “urban” schools and they haven’t really improved.

    Because money isn't the problem. The problem is they don't sequester trouble-makers, they don't track students properly and have them in classes apposite to their absorptive capacity, and they're not in session a quarter of the time for baffling reasons. At the secondary level, they waste resources on half-assed liberal education in lieu of voTech. At the primary level, they're not goal oriented at all unless they're forced to be by state legislators. Teachers are given witless professional preparation which damages the quality of the intake pipe, ditto administrators. The only extra expenditure which might be helpful would be to meet the added variable cost of being in session 240 days rather than 180 days. While we're at it, the corporate governance and financing of the schools is obnoxious.

    We have a shirt-tail who's a high school English teacher. He puts up a post about his states age-graded social studies standards and kvetches its worse than CRT. Actually, the standards were bland, but the sort of people attracted to teaching as a career tend to be, like this man, a stew of character and personality defects. What he's never noticed is that 'social studies' in lieu of history, geography, and civics is a dandy way to fritter away time and that teaching 'social studies' to 1st graders who cannot read textbooks and haven't mastered addition and subtraction is a waste of time too. Makes sense to the state education department, though.

    You want to 'improve the schools', step one has to be closing the state teachers' colleges and firing everyone in the state education department apart from the psychometricians. Step two has to be to have the sheriff's department set of day detention centers for incorrigibles.

    Replies: @Jack D, @anon

    , @bigdicknick
    @Jack D

    VanBugman

  61. @Anon
    The Olympic Men's 3-on-3 Basketball final was all white, with Latvia beating Russia for the gold medal:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7DjExb3tNA

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Mr. Grey, @gandydancer

    >Russian

    >White

  62. @Nikolai Vladivostok
    People are quite capable of holding contradictory beliefs, especially when it's in their interests to do so. Happens all the time.
    In this case, holding the contradiction is in their interests because, as elites, they need to lord it over the rest of us somehow. Solution: force us to live in diverse neighbourhoods and call us racist while they live in expensive, lily-white neighbourhoods and preen how non-racist they are.
    If the middle-class live happily in peaceful suburbs with good schools, what's the point of being an elite? You can see why the mid-20th century economic evening-out bugged them.
    A lot of otherwise mysterious thought and behaviour makes sense when you keep in mind that there are two ways of distinguishing yourself: lifting yourself up or pushing others down. The latter is the norm in the Third World.

    Replies: @ben tillman, @Ghost of Bull Moose

    Upscale neighborhoods are not ‘lily white,’ which is part of how they rationalize their faith-based political views.

    There is Jack Pendergast’s wife over at Dumbarton Oaks, you know the high-caste Indian woman he married after the kids moved out and Carol divorced him? Then there’s that interesting Dr. Castenada on 31st, next to the Philips place? He teaches sociology over at Georgetown but I believe he’s taken a sabbatical to write his book on revolutionary Latin American poets. And of course the the Rafsanjanis in N street, but I believe they are away in Paris at the moment, she’s there with her uncle’s Persian art collection. And that lovely Mr Mobutu and his wife and what is it, five children now? Sally Quinn’s sister made a packet selling them that old manse with the awful plumbing.

    This is what these people mean by meritocracy. They have contempt for riff raff of all races. You just happen to be the local variety.

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Ghost of Bull Moose

    "He teaches sociology over at Georgetown but I believe he’s taken a sabbatical to write his book on revolutionary Latin American poets."

    Well if he at least includes Cesar Vallejo then maybe I'll consider giving him a tiny bit of a pass.

    On the other hand, he probably wouldn't say a single intelligent thing about Cesar Vallejo, so..... ah, just go ahead and bill his family for the bullet.

  63. @Art Deco
    @Jack D

    What verBruggen is refusing to dwell on is the cultural dynamic which has made most of the political class antagonistic to doing sensible things and now hell for leather in favor of doing perverse and destructive things. He also does not dwell on the large mass of rank-and-file Americans who sit on their hands and let them do it (and escalating corruption of the electoral process which will prevent even motivated rank-and-file from tossing bad actors out). Some of the coda at the end is all very well and good (though underdeveloped), but he's not asking why the situation at present is such that if you were to expect public officials to restore a status quo ante 2014 you'd be wildly optimistic.

    Replies: @Jack D

    if you were to expect public officials to restore a status quo ante 2014 you’d be wildly optimistic.

    The irony is that if any Republican candidate were to adopt the Joe Biden agenda circa 2014 then he’d be called a vicious, beyond the pale, racist. Meanwhile, Joe Biden himself gets a complete pass for his prior positions. A brief mea culpa and all is forgiven and forgotten by the MSM. Meanwhile, Republicans are held to account for things that they said 20 years ago in high school and legions of hacks are poring over every word they have ever written. Of course Biden doesn’t have to worry about that because the clay tablets that we wrote on back when he was in high school have all disintegrated by now.

    • Agree: kaganovitch
  64. “That there are different levels of crime and academic performance among racial and ethnic groups.”

    Most people don’t associate “academic performance” with intelligence.

  65. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    A new, useful acronym that addresses differences between group: IQ, “equity”, and “disparities” is the BEG: Brain Equity Gap. Goodthinkers should be questioned: "How can we fix the BEG?"

    Replies: @Gunnar von Cowtown, @gandydancer

    Simple! We can fix the brain equity gap by hitting all White and Asian kids on the head with a tack hammer immediately after birth. Problem solved.

  66. Charles Murray is a democrat who votes democrat.

    him and people like him are the main reason everything bad is happening.

    who cares if he correctly understands WHY all this bad stuff is happening. he’s done his part for decades to make it happen. he doesn’t get to complain about it. he doesn’t get to nostalgia post on the internet about the good old days in America when things ran well and the country had a future. he personally voted against all that, like Joe Rogan and James Carville.

    the less people like Charles Murray in the world, the better off we will be. millions of these people are leaving CA and IL and NY every year to come ruin better run states after wrecking their state. they think they’re the good guys. in reality they are the problem.

    • Agree: Joseph Doaks
  67. @BLESTO-V
    I'm a straight out racist, and yet whenever I find myself having to speak with anyone black, I automatically go into courtesy mode, even though I have a caustic personality, because that's the upbringing I had in the optimistic '60s. This is also true for upscale whites in places like Brookline or Los Altos, even if they're not boomers, the point being that they never give themselves the opportunity to learn what blacks are like when they're not getting their toes polished.

    Replies: @Alden, @J.Ross, @Rob Lee

    I once spoke to a real live CIA spook, who stated that one of the first things you learn in courses designed to increase your ability to expand your awareness (i.e., increase your skills in ‘noticing patterns’), was to treat each and every interaction with another human being as a formal interview with the potential for developing said interview into an interrogation. Every interaction, from picking up your shirts at the cleaners and chatting with the clerk, to passing someone on the street, to dating another person (BIG interview implications here), to speaking with informants and / or other-state actors.

    The exercise of treating each and every human interaction as a consciously-focused interview – regardless of length or perceived importance – immediately sharpens your observation skills. Is this person lying; are they deceptive; are they attempting to empathize, etc.

    Try it sometime. Put yourself ‘all in’ on every human interaction with another person for one day. It will truly illuminate and inform your view of what we too often take for granted. You’ll start to recognize the signs exhibited by the unaware, the confidence men, the fraudsters, the criminals, the empaths, etc., before they even open their mouths. Interactions with women, especially, become much more overtly educational. You start to notice that they watch very carefully for a sliver of opportunity to pigeonhole and place you, even in the most innocuous of interactions. You’ll also start to notice – a big theme here lately – the ‘crimestop duckspeak’ automatons of the official narrative… they always try to catch themselves before they say something unorthodox.

    • Replies: @Bert
    @Rob Lee

    At one time I was interested in writing a book which would give mid-teen boys advice on how to navigate the world. The perspective you discuss would have been a cornerstone of the book. Diagnose the counterparty and from there the decision of how to handle them is not difficult. Many people are, however, too focused on presentation of self to carry out this exercise; Dale Carnegie-ism is a poor second to the analytic approach.

  68. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    Honestly, I'm growing weary of all the dilly-dallying.

    Just face it already: put me in absolute charge of this whole train wreck for sixteen months, and all the problems will vanish like morning dew. They aren't really any more complicated than a Patti Smith record.

    As Marlon Brando famously said in Apocalypse Now: "If I had ten divisions of such men, our troubles here would be over with very, very quickly."

    Replies: @Gary in Gramercy

    So the aphorism is correct: you can always tell a Harvard man, you just can’t tell him much.

    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Gary in Gramercy

    "you can always tell a Harvard man, you just can’t tell him much."

    Well, you can tell him to shut up.

    Or, you can tell him this:



    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=terry+riley+in+c&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3dterry%2briley%2bin%2bc%26cvid%3d8ceba1e31fa4405f85863ad32751c0f6%26aqs%3dedge.2.69i59i450l5.8945465j0j1%26FORM%3dANNTA1%26PC%3dHCTS&view=detail&mid=044DF30071418885BEC9044DF30071418885BEC9&&FORM=VDRVRV

    Replies: @Gary in Gramercy

  69. @Art Deco
    @countenance

    See Jimmy Carter, Michael Dukakis, Gary Hart and the recently deceased Walter Mondale. They've had nothing to lose, so why haven't they said jack about the atrocious conduct of Democratic politicians, security state apparatchiks, and tech companies? Or is what they say just never reported?

    What about the goo goo groups which were so prominent ca. 1979 - Common Cause, the League of Women Voters, Public Citizen &c? Well, the goo-goo groups are propagating the 'voter suppression' nonsense and the Naderites in particular are actively promoting institutionalized vote fraud.


    What you see in Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, Bari Weiss, and Andrew Sullivan is a set of lone wolves who actually did have something resembling fixed standards.

    Replies: @countenance

    The FDR-style liberals had a lot more power back in 1994 when TBC came out, including one that Murray named personally that happened to be President of the United States at the time. And I don’t remember them rushing to his and Herrnstein’s defense back then. Mostly they contributed to the pile on of hate.

    • Agree: David In TN
    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @countenance

    I wouldn't expect working politicians to have much to say about translated academic literature on psychometrics and social policy. Very few people are in their element discussing tests-and-measurements psychology.

    Also, what the federal government does is to provide a conduit for ed policy types very distant from the world of workaday teachers to impose cider house rules on others. The simplest way to improve the federal Department of Education is to assign the statistical collection and assessment to the Labor Department, incorporate a resolutions authority to wind down the grant and loan programs available to the general public, append an office to the Federal Trade Commission to draft regulations on the rubrics of the vendor-vendor vendor-client relation in the higher education sector, and close the residue of the department down, terminating all other programs and employees. It's not a large department, but it's a stew of vicious stupidity that needs to go away.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

  70. @anon
    To me, the beginning of wisdom is “First, do no harm.”

    The first step to wisdom is to call things by their right names.

    Replies: @3g4me

    @7 anon[403]: The first step to wisdom is facing and accepting and reflecting reality. Then dealing with it. Accepting the black lack of intelligence and surfeit of violence may hurt their feelings, but boohoo – zero f&&&ks given.

  71. @Torn and Frayed
    The problem with Murray is that he is looking downwards and simply stating the obvious and is of not much interest. Everyone instinctively knows about the intelligence gap, especially blacks.

    While gazing downwards does have some minor interest, it is far more important for whites to gaze upwards. Whites must recognise and ameliorate the intelligence, achievement, and most crucially, power gap with those groups ABOVE them. It is the cognitive elite, as we see with the current vaxx debacle, who represent the true danger to everyday whites. It is exactly Murray's class, writ large, who imported both blacks and more recently other diverse mystery meat into the US in order to avoid paying fair wages to whitey.

    Everyday whites would do much better to use magical Negros as a battering ram against the cognitive elite, writ large. Everyday whites understand black people much more profoundly than elites do anyway.

    Replies: @NOTA

    Yeah, Murray should really write a big long book on the rise of the cognitive elite and its consequences for America.

  72. @Desiderius

    Inequality of outcomes along racial lines is upsetting to everyone—it runs contrary to the hopes we have for our children and our nation.
     
    - from Khan's review

    It is not.

    It does not.

    If blacks double their performance and whites treble theirs it is preposterous to say that runs contrary to anyone's hopes for their own children or their own nation. If it does those aren't your children and this isn't your nation. Outcomes are not and cannot be merely positional goods.

    Replies: @3g4me, @Uncle Dan

    @15 Desiderius: Many of us would strenuously disagree with Khan that all those born on America’s magic dirt are our countrymen. I would argue Numerica is not my nation. I don’t particularly care about the welfare of black children, or Guatemalan children . . . living in Africa or Guatemala or Numerica. They are not my people. Now in my 60s, I am all out of compassion for anyone but my own people. They deserve it and can and will reciprocate it. God is responsible for all of earth’s people; White Americans are not.

    • Replies: @Joseph Doaks
    @3g4me

    "Many of us would strenuously disagree with Khan that all those born on America’s magic dirt are our countrymen."

    Yes, like Biden in the White House, they're here by virtue of being rammed down our throats against our wishes.

  73. @Jack D
    @Art Deco


    I would have laid out an aggressive, colorblind policy platform to reduce crime, reform policing, improve schools, and end restrictive zoning laws that entrench segregation and hinder upward mobility.
     
    In other words, the RINO agenda is the same as the Democrat agenda, except we should implement it a little slower. And people wonder why the Republican party doesn't really exist anymore outside of Trumpism?

    "Reduce crime, reform policing, improve schools" - gee, why hasn't anyone thought of this before? Such obvious solutions and yet no one except for this genius has proposed them before. Did Rip Van Bruggen just awake from a 50 year slumber?

    We know how to reduce crime - it's called "broken windows policing" and "stop and frisk". Black people don't really want reduced crime - it interferes with their ability to do their thang. You can do everything possible to reduce crime except for anything that actually reduces crime, like putting criminals in jail.

    As for "improve schools", we've spent maybe a trillion $ on improving "urban" schools and they haven't really improved. We don't need improved schools, we need improved students and the window for improving largely closes 9 months prior to their birth. Any future advance toward your goal line starts out behind the other end zone so very few touchdowns are scored.

    Replies: @NOTA, @Art Deco, @bigdicknick

    From all rhe surveys I’ve seen, most blacks in America very much want reduced crime and more police on the streets to reduce it. The professional activist/race hustler/black spokesman class has radically different incentives and concerns.

    • LOL: 3g4me
    • Replies: @Mr. Grey
    @NOTA


    most blacks in America very much want reduced crime

     

    Yes, in Oakland recently the city council voted 6-2 to cut money from the police budget. There are 3 black people on the council. The two from deep East Oakland, aka 'the Killzone' voted against cutting the police budget, precisely because they know their constituents suffer the most from out of control crime. The only black to vote for it is an ultra-woke loony marxist from rapidly gentrifying West Oakland.
  74. @Jack D
    @Art Deco


    I would have laid out an aggressive, colorblind policy platform to reduce crime, reform policing, improve schools, and end restrictive zoning laws that entrench segregation and hinder upward mobility.
     
    In other words, the RINO agenda is the same as the Democrat agenda, except we should implement it a little slower. And people wonder why the Republican party doesn't really exist anymore outside of Trumpism?

    "Reduce crime, reform policing, improve schools" - gee, why hasn't anyone thought of this before? Such obvious solutions and yet no one except for this genius has proposed them before. Did Rip Van Bruggen just awake from a 50 year slumber?

    We know how to reduce crime - it's called "broken windows policing" and "stop and frisk". Black people don't really want reduced crime - it interferes with their ability to do their thang. You can do everything possible to reduce crime except for anything that actually reduces crime, like putting criminals in jail.

    As for "improve schools", we've spent maybe a trillion $ on improving "urban" schools and they haven't really improved. We don't need improved schools, we need improved students and the window for improving largely closes 9 months prior to their birth. Any future advance toward your goal line starts out behind the other end zone so very few touchdowns are scored.

    Replies: @NOTA, @Art Deco, @bigdicknick

    Black people don’t really want reduced crime – it interferes with their ability to do their thang.

    You’re confusing rank-and-file blacks with black politicians and institutional apparatchiks.

    As for “improve schools”, we’ve spent maybe a trillion $ on improving “urban” schools and they haven’t really improved.

    Because money isn’t the problem. The problem is they don’t sequester trouble-makers, they don’t track students properly and have them in classes apposite to their absorptive capacity, and they’re not in session a quarter of the time for baffling reasons. At the secondary level, they waste resources on half-assed liberal education in lieu of voTech. At the primary level, they’re not goal oriented at all unless they’re forced to be by state legislators. Teachers are given witless professional preparation which damages the quality of the intake pipe, ditto administrators. The only extra expenditure which might be helpful would be to meet the added variable cost of being in session 240 days rather than 180 days. While we’re at it, the corporate governance and financing of the schools is obnoxious.

    We have a shirt-tail who’s a high school English teacher. He puts up a post about his states age-graded social studies standards and kvetches its worse than CRT. Actually, the standards were bland, but the sort of people attracted to teaching as a career tend to be, like this man, a stew of character and personality defects. What he’s never noticed is that ‘social studies’ in lieu of history, geography, and civics is a dandy way to fritter away time and that teaching ‘social studies’ to 1st graders who cannot read textbooks and haven’t mastered addition and subtraction is a waste of time too. Makes sense to the state education department, though.

    You want to ‘improve the schools’, step one has to be closing the state teachers’ colleges and firing everyone in the state education department apart from the psychometricians. Step two has to be to have the sheriff’s department set of day detention centers for incorrigibles.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Art Deco

    When my wife was a little girl she had a fantasy that someday the drinking fountains in her elementary school would dispense chilled Hawaiian Punch instead of lukewarm tap water. I think her fantasy has a better chance of being implemented in America 2021 than your fantasy has.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    , @anon
    @Art Deco

    Jack D


    Black people don’t really want reduced crime – it interferes with their ability to do their thang.
     
    You’re confusing rank-and-file blacks with black politicians and institutional apparatchiks.

    Who is it that gives stitches (or worse) to snitches? Politicians and apparatchiks, or someone else?

    There is a current example that is easy to find.

    https://www.espn.com/olympics/gymnastics/story/_/id/31619369/judge-asked-order-arrest-witnesses-triple-slaying-involving-brother-simone-biles


    Cleveland.com reported that prosecutors told a judge last week that they have been unable to find the only witness who reported seeing Biles-Thomas fire a weapon. Prosecutors also said they cannot find two other witnesses, including one man who was shot in the head.
     

    Last month, the judge issued arrest warrants for two witnesses who failed to appear to testify during the first trial; both took the stand later in the day wearing handcuffs, ankle chains and jail uniforms, Cleveland.com reported.
     
    Are the missing witnesses somehow kidnapped by an apparatchik politician, or were they just hiding out with help from friends / relatives? Which politician shot a witness in the head?

    Something about "short time preference" and "IQ 85" might be a factor.

  75. @D. K.
    @Whereismyhandle

    He's not a Boomer:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Murray_(political_scientist)

    Replies: @3g4me

    @43 D. K. And the train is fine. Boomer.

  76. @Anon
    The Olympic Men's 3-on-3 Basketball final was all white, with Latvia beating Russia for the gold medal:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7DjExb3tNA

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Mr. Grey, @gandydancer

    The original slaves!

  77. @countenance
    @Art Deco

    The FDR-style liberals had a lot more power back in 1994 when TBC came out, including one that Murray named personally that happened to be President of the United States at the time. And I don't remember them rushing to his and Herrnstein's defense back then. Mostly they contributed to the pile on of hate.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    I wouldn’t expect working politicians to have much to say about translated academic literature on psychometrics and social policy. Very few people are in their element discussing tests-and-measurements psychology.

    Also, what the federal government does is to provide a conduit for ed policy types very distant from the world of workaday teachers to impose cider house rules on others. The simplest way to improve the federal Department of Education is to assign the statistical collection and assessment to the Labor Department, incorporate a resolutions authority to wind down the grant and loan programs available to the general public, append an office to the Federal Trade Commission to draft regulations on the rubrics of the vendor-vendor vendor-client relation in the higher education sector, and close the residue of the department down, terminating all other programs and employees. It’s not a large department, but it’s a stew of vicious stupidity that needs to go away.

    • Agree: bomag
    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Art Deco

    It’s not a large department, but it’s a stew of vicious stupidity that needs to go away.

    It also has its own SWAT team for some reason.

  78. @NOTA
    @Jack D

    From all rhe surveys I’ve seen, most blacks in America very much want reduced crime and more police on the streets to reduce it. The professional activist/race hustler/black spokesman class has radically different incentives and concerns.

    Replies: @Mr. Grey

    most blacks in America very much want reduced crime

    Yes, in Oakland recently the city council voted 6-2 to cut money from the police budget. There are 3 black people on the council. The two from deep East Oakland, aka ‘the Killzone’ voted against cutting the police budget, precisely because they know their constituents suffer the most from out of control crime. The only black to vote for it is an ultra-woke loony marxist from rapidly gentrifying West Oakland.

  79. It’s lies and obfuscation all the way down. Whenever someone like Amy Wax notes that blacks are near the bottom of the academic rankings year after year, the university denies it but produces absolutely no data to refute it, since it doesn’t exist.

    Black cops know as well as anyone who they spend most of their time chasing, and at least in my experience have no love at all for the lowlifes that they have to deal with – but no progressives ever ask them about it, so it gets swept away by the anti-law enforcement rhetoric of the left.

    Businesses make a big show about diversity, but when it comes to actually putting diverse employees into positions where they have major responsibility and and impact on the bottom line, the numbers are few. Observing any employee tells you all you need to know – what their ceiling is, what they can be trusted with, etc. It’s not hard to fairly quickly figure out who has the capacity to grow and who needs to be slotted into a limited role.

    The question is how long these obvious lies can hold up before a critical mass of society will openly state what everyone knows to be true, and what happens then?

    • Thanks: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Arclight


    how long these obvious lies can hold up before a critical mass of society will openly state what everyone knows to be true, and what happens then?
     
    The Soviet Union lasted for 70 years. In Cuba and N. Korea, Communism is still going. You can build a society based on lies and have it last for a very long time if you punish everyone who tries to tell the truth. The only question is whether the regime has enough loyal enforcers and whether they are competent enough to keep instilling fear. The latter is the bigger problem - you can always recruit enforcers if you give them privileges (and in an increasingly poor society, "privileges" don't have to involve a lot of expenditures - in E. Germany there were people who were ratting out their best friends in exchange for being moved up on the multi-year waiting list for a car. Not for the car itself, just for a spot on the list.) . Hell, there are plenty who will do it for free if they think it will ingratiate them with the authorities. Half the population of E. Germany was snitching to the Stasi.

    Yes, it's true that someday it will all fall apart but you or I might not live to see that day (and if we do, there's no guaranty that what comes next won't be even worse) . Someday could be soon or it could be many decades from now - it's hard to predict.

    Replies: @Whiskey

  80. @ben tillman
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi


    Sounds as if he’d prefer not to focus on these very uncomfortable topics.
     
    There is nothing uncomfortable about these topics.

    Replies: @res, @Joseph Doaks

    There is nothing uncomfortable about these topics.

    Untrue for the vast majority of people in this country (at least in public). Not to mention the media.

    It is important to understand that because it is the primary obstacle to discussing them honestly.

    • Agree: Mark G.
  81. @ben tillman
    @Nikolai Vladivostok


    In this case, holding the contradiction is in their interests because, as elites, they need to lord it over the rest of us somehow.
     
    No, they don't. Being elite (i.e., elected or chosen) is its own reward.

    A lot of otherwise mysterious thought and behaviour makes sense when you keep in mind that there are two ways of distinguishing yourself: lifting yourself up or pushing others down.
     
    Elites, by definition, do not need to push anyone else down.

    Replies: @Bert, @J.Ross, @res, @Stan d Mute

    Elites, by definition, do not need to push anyone else down.

    Really? Seems like one of the primary means of maintaining one’s elite status.

    P.S. Perhaps more true of “elites” than people who really are elite.

  82. @Art Deco
    @Jack D

    Black people don’t really want reduced crime – it interferes with their ability to do their thang.

    You're confusing rank-and-file blacks with black politicians and institutional apparatchiks.


    As for “improve schools”, we’ve spent maybe a trillion $ on improving “urban” schools and they haven’t really improved.

    Because money isn't the problem. The problem is they don't sequester trouble-makers, they don't track students properly and have them in classes apposite to their absorptive capacity, and they're not in session a quarter of the time for baffling reasons. At the secondary level, they waste resources on half-assed liberal education in lieu of voTech. At the primary level, they're not goal oriented at all unless they're forced to be by state legislators. Teachers are given witless professional preparation which damages the quality of the intake pipe, ditto administrators. The only extra expenditure which might be helpful would be to meet the added variable cost of being in session 240 days rather than 180 days. While we're at it, the corporate governance and financing of the schools is obnoxious.

    We have a shirt-tail who's a high school English teacher. He puts up a post about his states age-graded social studies standards and kvetches its worse than CRT. Actually, the standards were bland, but the sort of people attracted to teaching as a career tend to be, like this man, a stew of character and personality defects. What he's never noticed is that 'social studies' in lieu of history, geography, and civics is a dandy way to fritter away time and that teaching 'social studies' to 1st graders who cannot read textbooks and haven't mastered addition and subtraction is a waste of time too. Makes sense to the state education department, though.

    You want to 'improve the schools', step one has to be closing the state teachers' colleges and firing everyone in the state education department apart from the psychometricians. Step two has to be to have the sheriff's department set of day detention centers for incorrigibles.

    Replies: @Jack D, @anon

    When my wife was a little girl she had a fantasy that someday the drinking fountains in her elementary school would dispense chilled Hawaiian Punch instead of lukewarm tap water. I think her fantasy has a better chance of being implemented in America 2021 than your fantasy has.

    • Replies: @AnotherDad
    @Jack D


    I think her fantasy has a better chance of being implemented in America 2021 than your fantasy has.
     
    Yes. Getting any positive reform through the public ed bureaucracy is darn near impossible.

    That's one of the reasons it's better to go around them with educational choice.

    It's difficult to imagine the public bureaucracy actually delivering schools that are capable of decently educating underclass blacks. But it's not very difficult at all to think up reforms that would help a great deal--help large numbers of blacks improve their lot in life. So let motivated--preferably black--educators get to work on doing it.

    And more importantly--for me--let conservative parents get their kids out from under the PC nonsense and indoctrination.
  83. anon[411] • Disclaimer says:
    @Art Deco
    @Jack D

    Black people don’t really want reduced crime – it interferes with their ability to do their thang.

    You're confusing rank-and-file blacks with black politicians and institutional apparatchiks.


    As for “improve schools”, we’ve spent maybe a trillion $ on improving “urban” schools and they haven’t really improved.

    Because money isn't the problem. The problem is they don't sequester trouble-makers, they don't track students properly and have them in classes apposite to their absorptive capacity, and they're not in session a quarter of the time for baffling reasons. At the secondary level, they waste resources on half-assed liberal education in lieu of voTech. At the primary level, they're not goal oriented at all unless they're forced to be by state legislators. Teachers are given witless professional preparation which damages the quality of the intake pipe, ditto administrators. The only extra expenditure which might be helpful would be to meet the added variable cost of being in session 240 days rather than 180 days. While we're at it, the corporate governance and financing of the schools is obnoxious.

    We have a shirt-tail who's a high school English teacher. He puts up a post about his states age-graded social studies standards and kvetches its worse than CRT. Actually, the standards were bland, but the sort of people attracted to teaching as a career tend to be, like this man, a stew of character and personality defects. What he's never noticed is that 'social studies' in lieu of history, geography, and civics is a dandy way to fritter away time and that teaching 'social studies' to 1st graders who cannot read textbooks and haven't mastered addition and subtraction is a waste of time too. Makes sense to the state education department, though.

    You want to 'improve the schools', step one has to be closing the state teachers' colleges and firing everyone in the state education department apart from the psychometricians. Step two has to be to have the sheriff's department set of day detention centers for incorrigibles.

    Replies: @Jack D, @anon

    Jack D

    Black people don’t really want reduced crime – it interferes with their ability to do their thang.

    You’re confusing rank-and-file blacks with black politicians and institutional apparatchiks.

    Who is it that gives stitches (or worse) to snitches? Politicians and apparatchiks, or someone else?

    There is a current example that is easy to find.

    https://www.espn.com/olympics/gymnastics/story/_/id/31619369/judge-asked-order-arrest-witnesses-triple-slaying-involving-brother-simone-biles

    Cleveland.com reported that prosecutors told a judge last week that they have been unable to find the only witness who reported seeing Biles-Thomas fire a weapon. Prosecutors also said they cannot find two other witnesses, including one man who was shot in the head.

    Last month, the judge issued arrest warrants for two witnesses who failed to appear to testify during the first trial; both took the stand later in the day wearing handcuffs, ankle chains and jail uniforms, Cleveland.com reported.

    Are the missing witnesses somehow kidnapped by an apparatchik politician, or were they just hiding out with help from friends / relatives? Which politician shot a witness in the head?

    Something about “short time preference” and “IQ 85” might be a factor.

  84. @JohnnyWalker123
    This.

    Is.

    America.

    https://twitter.com/alpharivelino/status/1421296517453946882

    Replies: @Stan d Mute

    Sadly, I can show you what it will look like tomorrow. Today you can safely laugh from a safe distance at the African city on the Detriot River.

    https://deadlinedetroit.com/articles/28449/leduff_video_shows_detroit_cops_running_away_and_then_there_s_a_rape_allegation

    And our general dysfunction:

    https://deadlinedetroit.com/articles/28488/leduff_all_the_canapes_in_the_world_can_t_cover_the_sour_taste_of_detroit_in_free_fall

    At last our boy Kwame is back home!

  85. @Ron Unz
    Well, I never bothered reading The Bell Curve back in 1994 because the senior author, Richard Herrnstein, had been saying pretty much the same thing since 1970.

    All those issues have been already very well known by anyone interested in the subject for more than two generations now. Back in 1985 Herrnstein had also co-authored a fine book on racial differences in crime rates with James Q. Wilson entitled Crime and Human Nature.

    I'll admit I haven't read the new Charles Murray book, but I just don't quite see the purpose of it. Wouldn't a simple pamphlet with a few basic charts and graphs be just as useful?

    I think the one possible argument for such a book would be to attract enough media coverage, hostile or not, to get those ideas to the attention of individuals too young to have been around during the TBC controversy more than 25 years ago. But the opponents aren't falling for that obvious trick and are just giving Murray's book the "silent treatment," which is the typical counter-strategy.

    I've been friendly with some very eminent journalists or scholars who suffered that same fate, and somehow desperately believed that one more column, raising a few different points or presenting them in a slightly different manner would somehow do the trick. But that's merely wishful thinking---the fix is in....

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anon, @Desiderius, @Stan d Mute, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @anonymous

    I just don’t quite see the purpose of it. Wouldn’t a simple pamphlet with a few basic charts and graphs be just as useful?

    Not just as useful, but much more useful. In fact, a simple meme or two gets it done better still. Nobody is coming after Murray or his book. But they sure took down Anglin pretty effectively. Look at the effort they put into doxxing anyone who makes Murray’s points truly effectively.

  86. @Redneck farmer
    Waiting for "Meritocracy IS Racist" in National Review.

    Replies: @Citizen of a Silly Country

    “The Conservative Case for Putting Whites in Re-education Camps” – National Review

  87. @Arclight
    It's lies and obfuscation all the way down. Whenever someone like Amy Wax notes that blacks are near the bottom of the academic rankings year after year, the university denies it but produces absolutely no data to refute it, since it doesn't exist.

    Black cops know as well as anyone who they spend most of their time chasing, and at least in my experience have no love at all for the lowlifes that they have to deal with - but no progressives ever ask them about it, so it gets swept away by the anti-law enforcement rhetoric of the left.

    Businesses make a big show about diversity, but when it comes to actually putting diverse employees into positions where they have major responsibility and and impact on the bottom line, the numbers are few. Observing any employee tells you all you need to know - what their ceiling is, what they can be trusted with, etc. It's not hard to fairly quickly figure out who has the capacity to grow and who needs to be slotted into a limited role.

    The question is how long these obvious lies can hold up before a critical mass of society will openly state what everyone knows to be true, and what happens then?

    Replies: @Jack D

    how long these obvious lies can hold up before a critical mass of society will openly state what everyone knows to be true, and what happens then?

    The Soviet Union lasted for 70 years. In Cuba and N. Korea, Communism is still going. You can build a society based on lies and have it last for a very long time if you punish everyone who tries to tell the truth. The only question is whether the regime has enough loyal enforcers and whether they are competent enough to keep instilling fear. The latter is the bigger problem – you can always recruit enforcers if you give them privileges (and in an increasingly poor society, “privileges” don’t have to involve a lot of expenditures – in E. Germany there were people who were ratting out their best friends in exchange for being moved up on the multi-year waiting list for a car. Not for the car itself, just for a spot on the list.) . Hell, there are plenty who will do it for free if they think it will ingratiate them with the authorities. Half the population of E. Germany was snitching to the Stasi.

    Yes, it’s true that someday it will all fall apart but you or I might not live to see that day (and if we do, there’s no guaranty that what comes next won’t be even worse) . Someday could be soon or it could be many decades from now – it’s hard to predict.

    • Replies: @Whiskey
    @Jack D

    That is not an accurate comparison. North Korea relies and has relied upon its entire existence from extensive Chinese subsidies. Cuba relied upon first the Soviet Union, then Venezuelan subsidies. Its turmoil is indicative of the failure of those subsidies. The Soviet Union relied upon massive amounts of oil and agricultural exports.

    And all had the following characteristics, more or less (save Cuba in one respect):

    A. Primitive infrastructure and low levels of infrastructure complexity, toleration of a pre-industrial population for low standards of living that were nevertheless higher than their ancestors.
    B. Mono racial society, no black people ruling Whites (save Cuba) or Asians.
    C. Variations of Juche, i.e. economic autarky. The Soviet Union and North Korea did not rely upon China shipping nearly all manufactured goods and textiles across an ocean.

    To give you a local example of what I mean, the Hyperion Sewage Treatment plant at Dockweiler state beach has been spewing untreated sewage for days into the Ocean. After another release near shore of raw sewage. The smell is terrible. Beaches up and down the coast have been shut down. Likely, the real cause is AA management not having a clue. Just as the Navy lost a $4 billion ship because a black sailor was angry.

    The much higher level of complexity requires mostly White people to maintain it, even something as straightforward as sewage treatment plants. For power, particularly as we go "green" with inputs from highly variable solar and wind energy, the requirements for much smarter people (basically Whites as Chinese will fined it beneath them) to maintain these systems while putting blacks in every position will collide. As will personal safety ala Barbara Boxer getting a beat down by a black. Even bigshots can be vulnerable.

    Even Amazon will be affected. No power means customers can neither stream nor order items. No power means their warehouses cannot operate, nor can their drivers pump gas (which requires electric power). If they've gone electric, even worse. And no power means why bother being a customer of Amazon? All those phones are useless if there is no cell signal and cell towers require power (they have backup batteries good for mostly hours not days). As do cell phones.

    Indeed the trajectory of Western Civilization, and every other one since 1945, has been for more and more and more complexity, more dependence on technology, more energy requirements, and thus more complexity. A modern industrial society simply cannot run for very long on lies about who can be capable of keeping it running. The more complexity is layered on, the more the collapse is swift and certain if the people are not top-notch.

    This is not even approaching the racial angle. Lewis Hamilton of F1 is very concerned with Black Lives Matter. He takes a knee for George Floyd before every race. It shows that black beats nation -- as a black man he cares more about a black American criminal than his "fellow Englishmen" and writ large that is every black person. Who will have more loyalty and make decisions therefore based on racial loyalty that excludes and punishes the White (for now) majority. At its logical conclusion black racial loyalty means in the words of Julius Malema of South Africa, "not calling for the extermination of all Whites, at this moment." White men in particular have everything to lose, as blacks supplant them permanently, and nothing to gain, for going along with lies. Their biggest potential loss is genocide of them and their people and families. Their gain is nothing since blacks pushed into more and more positions means nothing for them. This is why sexual relations between White men and women are so bad. The 95% of White men who are non-Alpha have literally nothing to lose. The attractive women will continue to not date them so they express themselves often.

    You can see this now in Hollywood. Its black only now. Black only producers, writers, directors, actors. Save White actresses playing off the black male romantic lead. Black black black black black black. Black only at Disney, black only at Warners, black only at Netflix, black only at Apple. And college admissions. Hedge fund managers and other bigshots are learning their kids won't go where they went -- because those slots are reserved for blacks only.

    Which sets up a battle of elites -- elites seeing not only themselves but their kids being pushed out for blacks. White black elites seek to further push out remaining Whites. As work-arounds and kludges get eliminated, conflict becomes inevitable and race-based.

  88. @ben tillman
    @Nikolai Vladivostok


    In this case, holding the contradiction is in their interests because, as elites, they need to lord it over the rest of us somehow.
     
    No, they don't. Being elite (i.e., elected or chosen) is its own reward.

    A lot of otherwise mysterious thought and behaviour makes sense when you keep in mind that there are two ways of distinguishing yourself: lifting yourself up or pushing others down.
     
    Elites, by definition, do not need to push anyone else down.

    Replies: @Bert, @J.Ross, @res, @Stan d Mute

    Elites, by definition, do not need to push anyone else down.

    True, but we have a superabundance of pretenders who are seen and accepted by our media and society as “elites”.

    In what clown world is a man who plays children’s games for a living or a woman who plays pretend for a living an actual elite? Our clown world.

    🤡

    When you have no merit underlying your elite status, you must beat down on those who do.

    • Agree: David In TN
  89. Pointing out how the world works;

    I say:

    Farm boy tinkerer like Henry Ford and the Scottish instinct for understanding essential function and Scottish guy David Byrne asking: What is happening? How do these things work together? Think you’ve had enough?

    Charles Murray is Scottish and is interested in how things work and especially how they work together and the results of that.

    I wrote this in June of 2021:

    Wall Street Journal Watch for the Charles Murray FACING REALITY book is underway.

    George Washington was said to have made it an order that — None But Americans On Watch Tonight — and let’s see when the WSJ will review Murray’s group racial differences book.

    The Wall Street Journal music review guy attacked Van Morrison’s recent album because Van The Man was highly skeptical about China Lab Flu and Bat Soup Fever and the ruling class response to China Lab Flu and Bat Soup Fever and The Guardian went after Mr Van Morrison also.

    Van Morrison is Scottish by way of Belfast and Charles Murray is Scottish by way of the town in Iowa famous for washing machines and clothes dryers and both evince very pleasant Scottish worldviews where they want to know how things work and how they can work differently.

    Charles Murray to me is a trimmer for the ruling class posing as an intellectual provocateur and Murray’s reluctance to call for Whites to advance their interests as Whites is irritating.

    Whites Without College Degrees are getting pushed out of the globalizer post-national Democrat Party and the White Upper Middle Class Snot Brats and the plutocrats and the ruling class are using Blacks as a shield to deflect attention away from the massive concentration of wealth and power in the USA.

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/how-many-publications-will-review-charles-murrays-facing-reality/#comment-4724725

  90. — “To me, the beginning of wisdom is ‘First, do no harm.’”

    You’d think this was a fundamental point. Yet I’ve recently read several doctors such as this one who argue that primum non nocere is not only non-binding, but an unattainable and even undesirable goal:

    https://www.aafp.org/afp/2001/1215/p1942.html

    I’m not attributing this about-face to CoVid era attitudes, and the fact that the first-page search result for “primum non nocere” features an argument from 2001 would seem to indicate that the Hypocratic Oath has been in the process of being deprecated for some time. On the other hand, I do have to wonder if the first-page search results would have looked the same three or ten years ago…

  91. Tweets from 2015:

  92. @Ron Unz
    Well, I never bothered reading The Bell Curve back in 1994 because the senior author, Richard Herrnstein, had been saying pretty much the same thing since 1970.

    All those issues have been already very well known by anyone interested in the subject for more than two generations now. Back in 1985 Herrnstein had also co-authored a fine book on racial differences in crime rates with James Q. Wilson entitled Crime and Human Nature.

    I'll admit I haven't read the new Charles Murray book, but I just don't quite see the purpose of it. Wouldn't a simple pamphlet with a few basic charts and graphs be just as useful?

    I think the one possible argument for such a book would be to attract enough media coverage, hostile or not, to get those ideas to the attention of individuals too young to have been around during the TBC controversy more than 25 years ago. But the opponents aren't falling for that obvious trick and are just giving Murray's book the "silent treatment," which is the typical counter-strategy.

    I've been friendly with some very eminent journalists or scholars who suffered that same fate, and somehow desperately believed that one more column, raising a few different points or presenting them in a slightly different manner would somehow do the trick. But that's merely wishful thinking---the fix is in....

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anon, @Desiderius, @Stan d Mute, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @anonymous

    But that’s merely wishful thinking—the fix is in….

    You bet it is Ron.

    The fix is ALSO in for the next Delta variant lockdown and school closings and having 10 years old wear masks in opened schools 7 hours a day.

    Because? Based upon TWO — count ’em TWO –flawed studies, where one is from India and got rejected by Nature only to reappear as “revise and resubmit” once the CDC went out on limb and the second is based on study of an outbreak in Provincetown during Bear week, where a lot of gay males french kiss lots of other guys and have unprotected anal sex in a bacchanal that would makes the ancient Greeks blush.

    But they’re counting on worry warts like you to line up and do the hokey pokey all over again.

  93. @Jack D
    @Arclight


    how long these obvious lies can hold up before a critical mass of society will openly state what everyone knows to be true, and what happens then?
     
    The Soviet Union lasted for 70 years. In Cuba and N. Korea, Communism is still going. You can build a society based on lies and have it last for a very long time if you punish everyone who tries to tell the truth. The only question is whether the regime has enough loyal enforcers and whether they are competent enough to keep instilling fear. The latter is the bigger problem - you can always recruit enforcers if you give them privileges (and in an increasingly poor society, "privileges" don't have to involve a lot of expenditures - in E. Germany there were people who were ratting out their best friends in exchange for being moved up on the multi-year waiting list for a car. Not for the car itself, just for a spot on the list.) . Hell, there are plenty who will do it for free if they think it will ingratiate them with the authorities. Half the population of E. Germany was snitching to the Stasi.

    Yes, it's true that someday it will all fall apart but you or I might not live to see that day (and if we do, there's no guaranty that what comes next won't be even worse) . Someday could be soon or it could be many decades from now - it's hard to predict.

    Replies: @Whiskey

    That is not an accurate comparison. North Korea relies and has relied upon its entire existence from extensive Chinese subsidies. Cuba relied upon first the Soviet Union, then Venezuelan subsidies. Its turmoil is indicative of the failure of those subsidies. The Soviet Union relied upon massive amounts of oil and agricultural exports.

    And all had the following characteristics, more or less (save Cuba in one respect):

    A. Primitive infrastructure and low levels of infrastructure complexity, toleration of a pre-industrial population for low standards of living that were nevertheless higher than their ancestors.
    B. Mono racial society, no black people ruling Whites (save Cuba) or Asians.
    C. Variations of Juche, i.e. economic autarky. The Soviet Union and North Korea did not rely upon China shipping nearly all manufactured goods and textiles across an ocean.

    To give you a local example of what I mean, the Hyperion Sewage Treatment plant at Dockweiler state beach has been spewing untreated sewage for days into the Ocean. After another release near shore of raw sewage. The smell is terrible. Beaches up and down the coast have been shut down. Likely, the real cause is AA management not having a clue. Just as the Navy lost a $4 billion ship because a black sailor was angry.

    The much higher level of complexity requires mostly White people to maintain it, even something as straightforward as sewage treatment plants. For power, particularly as we go “green” with inputs from highly variable solar and wind energy, the requirements for much smarter people (basically Whites as Chinese will fined it beneath them) to maintain these systems while putting blacks in every position will collide. As will personal safety ala Barbara Boxer getting a beat down by a black. Even bigshots can be vulnerable.

    Even Amazon will be affected. No power means customers can neither stream nor order items. No power means their warehouses cannot operate, nor can their drivers pump gas (which requires electric power). If they’ve gone electric, even worse. And no power means why bother being a customer of Amazon? All those phones are useless if there is no cell signal and cell towers require power (they have backup batteries good for mostly hours not days). As do cell phones.

    Indeed the trajectory of Western Civilization, and every other one since 1945, has been for more and more and more complexity, more dependence on technology, more energy requirements, and thus more complexity. A modern industrial society simply cannot run for very long on lies about who can be capable of keeping it running. The more complexity is layered on, the more the collapse is swift and certain if the people are not top-notch.

    This is not even approaching the racial angle. Lewis Hamilton of F1 is very concerned with Black Lives Matter. He takes a knee for George Floyd before every race. It shows that black beats nation — as a black man he cares more about a black American criminal than his “fellow Englishmen” and writ large that is every black person. Who will have more loyalty and make decisions therefore based on racial loyalty that excludes and punishes the White (for now) majority. At its logical conclusion black racial loyalty means in the words of Julius Malema of South Africa, “not calling for the extermination of all Whites, at this moment.” White men in particular have everything to lose, as blacks supplant them permanently, and nothing to gain, for going along with lies. Their biggest potential loss is genocide of them and their people and families. Their gain is nothing since blacks pushed into more and more positions means nothing for them. This is why sexual relations between White men and women are so bad. The 95% of White men who are non-Alpha have literally nothing to lose. The attractive women will continue to not date them so they express themselves often.

    You can see this now in Hollywood. Its black only now. Black only producers, writers, directors, actors. Save White actresses playing off the black male romantic lead. Black black black black black black. Black only at Disney, black only at Warners, black only at Netflix, black only at Apple. And college admissions. Hedge fund managers and other bigshots are learning their kids won’t go where they went — because those slots are reserved for blacks only.

    Which sets up a battle of elites — elites seeing not only themselves but their kids being pushed out for blacks. White black elites seek to further push out remaining Whites. As work-arounds and kludges get eliminated, conflict becomes inevitable and race-based.

  94. @Yojimbo/Zatoichi
    Verbruggen's tone in the article sounds quite pained. Pained as in "Well, yes, obviously there are considerable gaps in the IQ and crime rates, but most everyone across the spectrum knows this. So why should we give Murray's book any more attention than need be?" Sounds as if he'd prefer not to focus on these very uncomfortable topics. And such is the tone of Conservative Inc. these days.

    Replies: @ben tillman, @John Milton’s Ghost

    That’s National Review in general since about 2008, if not 2000. I grew up with that magazine, and in my young adulthood, in the 1990s, it was still fearless in its willingness to take on the left’s sacred cows, as well as let right wingers have a variety of opinions. But then it became about war and unregulated global finance. I didn’t realize it until Barry O was elected, when every article felt like some kind of triangulation spinning exercise to sound right of left of right of center, and be fully respectable to any upper middle class Manhattan audience.

    • Replies: @Bill
    @John Milton’s Ghost


    in the 1990s, it was still fearless in its willingness to take on the left’s sacred cows
     
    We all suffer from nostalgia. Pat Buchanan ran for president in the 1990s. When it was talking about him, did NR show anything other than utter servility to the "left's" narrative? What did the 1990s NR think of Lincoln? What did it think of Wilson?

    The 1990s were a part of NR's make-leftoid-arguments-to-moderate-conclusions era. Making leftoid arguments to moderate conclusions is objectively leftist---it is a way of disarming and re-directing people who would be on the right towards embracing a leftoid world-view. It was only on the right briefly after its founding, and even there I'm open to be convinced otherwise. From the brief glimpses I get watching people fisk them occasionally, it seems their servility to the left has expanded to encompass everything but tax cuts.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Mark G.

  95. I’ve often wondered about the assertion that, deep down, most people “know” about average cognitive and behavioral differences between racial groups. I don’t see a whole lot of evidence for this

    Case in point- I work as a middle school teacher in LA (I know, I know..). I cannot think of even one co-worker who is aware of these differences. The very idea of it would be anathema to them. These are mostly smart (I’d wager all IQ 110 plus) women who are surprisingly clear-headed on a variety of other topics. It’s not simply a matter of pretending they don’t know to confirm to social norms. I’m telling you- these people are true believers in the blank slate ideology.

    • Thanks: Joseph Doaks
  96. I have read Murray’s book (which is basically two long essays on IQ and crime.) And it’s a little underwhelming.

    Murray points out the vast difference in IQ test scores and debunks the claim that IQ scores aren’t really important. But Verbruggen is right. People already know this stuff, they just observe a social convention against talking about it.

    But Murray pulls up short in saying why blacks score lower on IQ tests. He’s published plenty of data before showing that it is undoubtedly genetic and has nothing to do with the socioeconomic conditions that we call “environmental” in public policy debate.

    He certainly hints at this by saying how “intractable” the gap seems. But ironically, he’s the one who can’t face reality by stating the truth in his own book.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Hypnotoad666


    just observe a social convention against talking about it.
     
    Oh, bullshit. "Observing a social convention" implies something polite like saying "How are you?" when you greet someone. Not mentioning publicly that blacks are significantly dumber than whites on average (and that genius level blacks are as rare as hen's teeth) is a TABOO, not a social convention. Was never saying anything bad about Stalin during his regime just "a social convention"?

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

  97. @Jack D
    @Art Deco


    I would have laid out an aggressive, colorblind policy platform to reduce crime, reform policing, improve schools, and end restrictive zoning laws that entrench segregation and hinder upward mobility.
     
    In other words, the RINO agenda is the same as the Democrat agenda, except we should implement it a little slower. And people wonder why the Republican party doesn't really exist anymore outside of Trumpism?

    "Reduce crime, reform policing, improve schools" - gee, why hasn't anyone thought of this before? Such obvious solutions and yet no one except for this genius has proposed them before. Did Rip Van Bruggen just awake from a 50 year slumber?

    We know how to reduce crime - it's called "broken windows policing" and "stop and frisk". Black people don't really want reduced crime - it interferes with their ability to do their thang. You can do everything possible to reduce crime except for anything that actually reduces crime, like putting criminals in jail.

    As for "improve schools", we've spent maybe a trillion $ on improving "urban" schools and they haven't really improved. We don't need improved schools, we need improved students and the window for improving largely closes 9 months prior to their birth. Any future advance toward your goal line starts out behind the other end zone so very few touchdowns are scored.

    Replies: @NOTA, @Art Deco, @bigdicknick

    VanBugman

  98. ‘To begin with, I would posit that most Americans know about these problems’

    Bullshit! MSM works very hard to keep people from knowing!

  99. @bigdicknick
    Charles Murray straight up backboard breaking slam dunked on David "controlled opposition" French on twitter yesterday as I am sure many people on here saw. Good stuff!

    Replies: @David In TN, @MEH 0910

    French isn’t even the “controlled opposition” any more. He’s “the conservative case for agreeing with the Left.”

  100. @Gary in Gramercy
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    So the aphorism is correct: you can always tell a Harvard man, you just can't tell him much.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

    • Replies: @Gary in Gramercy
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    I'll see your one-chord wonders, and raise you:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JedfQ2XzlDU

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

  101. @Desiderius

    Inequality of outcomes along racial lines is upsetting to everyone—it runs contrary to the hopes we have for our children and our nation.
     
    - from Khan's review

    It is not.

    It does not.

    If blacks double their performance and whites treble theirs it is preposterous to say that runs contrary to anyone's hopes for their own children or their own nation. If it does those aren't your children and this isn't your nation. Outcomes are not and cannot be merely positional goods.

    Replies: @3g4me, @Uncle Dan

    Khan’s error is at the core of the present day hysteria. Inequality (or, if you prefer, diversity) of outcomes along racial lines is the unremarkable norm of human history. It ain’t broke, don’t fix it. If any individual aspires to a calling where there are few who “look like him,” fine. If he’s successful, fine. If he’s unsuccessful, also fine. Just nobody get in his way. And, basically, nobody has since Jackie Robinson stole home in 1947, to enthusiastic white cheers.

    • Agree: Desiderius, Shel100
  102. @Goddard
    @Dr. Doom


    White racial consciousness has arrived at last.
     
    No it has not. Sportsball is more popular than ever, the border is being overrun and no one is doing a thing about it, enlistments in the globohomo armed forces are as robust as ever, and white people are fat and tatted and are slurping up the crystal meth and fentanol. Whites continue to have the look of a people defeated in war and are but a shadow of the people they once were. Nothing less than a spiritual re-awakening is going to deliver whites from their predicament, and I see zero sign of it currently.

    Replies: @Uncle Dan, @Corvinus

    Your description reminds me of what happened to the Indians after they were defeated.

    • Replies: @Goddard
    @Uncle Dan


    Your description reminds me of what happened to the Indians after they were defeated.
     
    The comparison is apt.
  103. @Hypnotoad666
    I have read Murray's book (which is basically two long essays on IQ and crime.) And it's a little underwhelming.

    Murray points out the vast difference in IQ test scores and debunks the claim that IQ scores aren't really important. But Verbruggen is right. People already know this stuff, they just observe a social convention against talking about it.

    But Murray pulls up short in saying why blacks score lower on IQ tests. He's published plenty of data before showing that it is undoubtedly genetic and has nothing to do with the socioeconomic conditions that we call "environmental" in public policy debate.

    He certainly hints at this by saying how "intractable" the gap seems. But ironically, he's the one who can't face reality by stating the truth in his own book.

    Replies: @Jack D

    just observe a social convention against talking about it.

    Oh, bullshit. “Observing a social convention” implies something polite like saying “How are you?” when you greet someone. Not mentioning publicly that blacks are significantly dumber than whites on average (and that genius level blacks are as rare as hen’s teeth) is a TABOO, not a social convention. Was never saying anything bad about Stalin during his regime just “a social convention”?

    • Thanks: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Hypnotoad666
    @Jack D

    Don't get your panties in a bunch over the phrase "social convention." If you had better reading comprehension you'd have noticed I am drawing a distinction between the raw fact of the racial score gap vs. its genetic origin. The raw fact of the gap can be periodically mentioned even in the New York Times, but only under the rubric of why there must be "systemic racism" in the tests, or why "bad schools" or "lead paint" must be to blame.

    It's the genetics that is taboo. So taboo in fact that Murray won't even say it in his own book about "facing reality." Frankly, even Steve shies away from stating it explicitly if he can avoid it.

  104. This extreme left is winning at eliminating standardized testing.

    Specifically eliminating college admissions tests like SAT, ACT, and GRE.

    Much of the right also supports eliminating selective admissions and barriers to higher ed. Not because it’s racist, just because people should have a right to take classes at the government funded school system.

    I got a perfect score on the math SAT+GRE, but if people with poor scores, want to go take higher ed math classes, I don’t see why society should stop them. Society doesn’t owe them good grades or top skill, but the chance to pay tuition and give it a shot.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Hi There

    What you are asking for is already true. If you want to take an advanced math class, someone will take your money. It just won't be Harvard or any other top 50 university. But after that, there are tons of seats available for all comers. If you count online classes, an infinite number.

    But for someone who is good at math, you don't know the meaning of "zero sum game". In the short run (and for various reasons, even the long run- the size of the freshman class at most prestigious universities has remained fairly constant for decades and has not even kept up with population growth) the number of seats in top universities is fixed. Right now, top universities are rejecting 24 out of every 25 applicants. If they take you, that means that they can't take someone else. Getting rid of SATs doesn't mean that everyone can go to Harvard now. It means that Harvard can select its students by race or some other criterion instead of merit. They always did this, but now they don't even have to pretend anymore.

    Nor could it be otherwise - if Harvard expanded its freshman class by a factor of 25 so that they could take every applicant, it wouldn't be "Harvard" and the people who they really want wouldn't want their product anymore. The value of their brand lies in its exclusivity.

    OTOH, if all that you are interested in is learning math, there are tons of ways to do that - they just don't give you the prestigious credential.

    Replies: @Inquiring Mind, @Hi There

  105. @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Gary in Gramercy

    "you can always tell a Harvard man, you just can’t tell him much."

    Well, you can tell him to shut up.

    Or, you can tell him this:



    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=terry+riley+in+c&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3dterry%2briley%2bin%2bc%26cvid%3d8ceba1e31fa4405f85863ad32751c0f6%26aqs%3dedge.2.69i59i450l5.8945465j0j1%26FORM%3dANNTA1%26PC%3dHCTS&view=detail&mid=044DF30071418885BEC9044DF30071418885BEC9&&FORM=VDRVRV

    Replies: @Gary in Gramercy

    I’ll see your one-chord wonders, and raise you:

    • LOL: Inquiring Mind
    • Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease
    @Gary in Gramercy

    Ho ho ho my friend, if you want to beat musical monomania, try this on for size......




    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/wnba/anchor-drop-99-days-to-kickoff/ar-AAKtQKZ


    or if you _really_ want to get single-minded, well there's always this......


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxAJpPHyczs


    I'll wait.

  106. Khan’s review mostly talks about how he thinks people react to Murray’s book, than about the book itself. His main dig on the book is that it does not offer solutions (duh.) Did Khan read the entire book and not find even one single error of fact? What I need in a review of Murray’s book is a thorough evaluation of its accuracy and the soundness of its data.

    I’m thinking about buying many copies and handing them out to people, but first I’d like some good reviewers to comb the book for errors. Once shown that the book stands on indisputably firm data and unassailably accurate analysis, I’d feel I was on firmer ground responding to the nine out of ten people who will tell me “I refuse to read your discredited Race Science.”

  107. @Uncle Dan
    @Goddard

    Your description reminds me of what happened to the Indians after they were defeated.

    Replies: @Goddard

    Your description reminds me of what happened to the Indians after they were defeated.

    The comparison is apt.

  108. The Data are from the US Natioanl Longitudinal Study supplementary data of Murray’s book, https://www.encounterbooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Combined-Longitudinal-Studies-0615.xlsx

    The results of equality of outcome from the Diversity, Inclusion and Equity D.I.E doctrine is pretty obvious even when race is not highlighted in the chart. There are significant number of nurses with IQ ≥ 115 smarter than the physicians with IQ ≤ 115 and some are even below IQ 100 and one even with IQ of 77. How do the later gain respect from the former?? Does USA prefer to import physicians from India rather than training those smart local nurses to be physicians?? The army has deemed those below IQ 85 are untrainable and there are significant number of health assistants and aides below IQ 85.

    More data and bigger charts at http://relativevolatility.blogspot.com

    • Replies: @res
    @dux.ie


    There are significant number of nurses with IQ ≥ 115 smarter than the physicians with IQ ≤ 115 and some are even below IQ 100 and one even with IQ of 77. How do the later gain respect from the former??
     
    That is an interesting point. One wrinkle I find interesting is I think the overlapping distributions for physicians and nurses had different causes at different times.

    In the more distant (but still within living memory) past nurse was one of the few occupations popular with women so (along with teacher) was a typical place for high IQ women who wanted to work to land. So you had high IQ subsets for men and women sorting into physicians and nurses respectively and it seems likely those would overlap.

    More recently affirmative action means the lower end of physician IQ is likely to be more populated than in the past. Though it is unclear to me if smart women who would have been nurses once now becoming doctors is a countering effect.

    Would it be worth replicating your analysis split into early/late NLSY, black/white, and male/female subgroups? Or are the sample sizes becoming too small to be useful even for a binary split?

    FWIW, the nurse/doctor respect relationship can be complicated. I think of it as a bit like the newbie officer and veteran noncom relationship in the military (though I think that one is relatively more experience based and less IQ etc. based).

    P.S. I wonder what those 120 IQ health assistants think of things.
  109. @Jack D
    @Hypnotoad666


    just observe a social convention against talking about it.
     
    Oh, bullshit. "Observing a social convention" implies something polite like saying "How are you?" when you greet someone. Not mentioning publicly that blacks are significantly dumber than whites on average (and that genius level blacks are as rare as hen's teeth) is a TABOO, not a social convention. Was never saying anything bad about Stalin during his regime just "a social convention"?

    Replies: @Hypnotoad666

    Don’t get your panties in a bunch over the phrase “social convention.” If you had better reading comprehension you’d have noticed I am drawing a distinction between the raw fact of the racial score gap vs. its genetic origin. The raw fact of the gap can be periodically mentioned even in the New York Times, but only under the rubric of why there must be “systemic racism” in the tests, or why “bad schools” or “lead paint” must be to blame.

    It’s the genetics that is taboo. So taboo in fact that Murray won’t even say it in his own book about “facing reality.” Frankly, even Steve shies away from stating it explicitly if he can avoid it.

  110. @Hi There

    This extreme left is winning at eliminating standardized testing.
     
    Specifically eliminating college admissions tests like SAT, ACT, and GRE.

    Much of the right also supports eliminating selective admissions and barriers to higher ed. Not because it's racist, just because people should have a right to take classes at the government funded school system.

    I got a perfect score on the math SAT+GRE, but if people with poor scores, want to go take higher ed math classes, I don't see why society should stop them. Society doesn't owe them good grades or top skill, but the chance to pay tuition and give it a shot.

    Replies: @Jack D

    What you are asking for is already true. If you want to take an advanced math class, someone will take your money. It just won’t be Harvard or any other top 50 university. But after that, there are tons of seats available for all comers. If you count online classes, an infinite number.

    But for someone who is good at math, you don’t know the meaning of “zero sum game”. In the short run (and for various reasons, even the long run- the size of the freshman class at most prestigious universities has remained fairly constant for decades and has not even kept up with population growth) the number of seats in top universities is fixed. Right now, top universities are rejecting 24 out of every 25 applicants. If they take you, that means that they can’t take someone else. Getting rid of SATs doesn’t mean that everyone can go to Harvard now. It means that Harvard can select its students by race or some other criterion instead of merit. They always did this, but now they don’t even have to pretend anymore.

    Nor could it be otherwise – if Harvard expanded its freshman class by a factor of 25 so that they could take every applicant, it wouldn’t be “Harvard” and the people who they really want wouldn’t want their product anymore. The value of their brand lies in its exclusivity.

    OTOH, if all that you are interested in is learning math, there are tons of ways to do that – they just don’t give you the prestigious credential.

    • Replies: @Inquiring Mind
    @Jack D

    Harkening back to the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings, there was a parade of "witnesses" attesting to Ivy League credentials, which made one lone guy who had attended the Illinois Institute of Technology stand out. This led to a comment by Paul Simon (the Senator from Illinois, not the singer-song writer, which had to be explained in news reports at the time) that "Illinois Institute of Technology is a fine, fine school."

    Illinois Institute of Technology is one of those places where you can learn math and even earn a law degree if I remember correctly, and yes, it won't put you on the fast-track to being appointed to the Supreme Court or even as part of pool of clerks and other camp followers of the three branches of the Federal Government.

    Graduating from Harvard won't put you on that track either. Getting on that track is not a matter of having taken certain courses of study at Harvard, it is a matter of friendships and personal social relationships, many of which are established by what housing unit you are placed in. Harvard does a good job of "tracking" and "segregating" the "in crowd", whether minority or majority race from the rabble whom they admit, either based on racial preference or academics to obtain the desired "balance" of their student body.

    Yes, our elites have become more racially diverse, but our elites are still drawn from a narrow pool of persons who have known each other over much of their lifetimes.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @black sea, @Hi There

    , @Hi There
    @Jack D



    But for someone who is good at math, you don’t know the meaning of “zero sum game”. ... The value of [Harvard's] brand lies in its exclusivity.

     

    No, I understand. You are defending Harvard's exclusive brand financed on enormous amoungs of public money. I don't.

    People should get credit and prestige for what they actually accomplish themselves, not for which fancy brand name schools grant them admission, based on the judgements of admissions boards and bureaucrats.

    I don't love or hate the people at Harvard. I don't really know them. I don't think they deserve enormous levels of public money and prestige and an endowment that is basically a perpetuity inheritance from hundreds of years ago from a completely different group of people who were focused on Protestant religion.


    What you are asking for is already true. If you want to take an advanced math class, someone will take your money. It just won’t be Harvard or any other top 50 university.

     

    I don't agree.

    At lower math levels, there's tons of good options like Khan Academy. What I saw from Coursera, edX, Udacity wasn't really serious about higher math.

    For high quality calculus 1+2 and differential equations: yes. Most community colleges offer high quality courses available to anyone who wants to take them for low cost.

    For things like integer number theory + mathematical cryptography, or probability + stochastic processes, or real analysis + topology: I don't think there are good accessible options outside of prestigious universities, which are hard to get into, and often grant/reject students for many reasons other than ability.
  111. @Rob Lee
    @BLESTO-V

    I once spoke to a real live CIA spook, who stated that one of the first things you learn in courses designed to increase your ability to expand your awareness (i.e., increase your skills in 'noticing patterns'), was to treat each and every interaction with another human being as a formal interview with the potential for developing said interview into an interrogation. Every interaction, from picking up your shirts at the cleaners and chatting with the clerk, to passing someone on the street, to dating another person (BIG interview implications here), to speaking with informants and / or other-state actors.

    The exercise of treating each and every human interaction as a consciously-focused interview - regardless of length or perceived importance - immediately sharpens your observation skills. Is this person lying; are they deceptive; are they attempting to empathize, etc.

    Try it sometime. Put yourself 'all in' on every human interaction with another person for one day. It will truly illuminate and inform your view of what we too often take for granted. You'll start to recognize the signs exhibited by the unaware, the confidence men, the fraudsters, the criminals, the empaths, etc., before they even open their mouths. Interactions with women, especially, become much more overtly educational. You start to notice that they watch very carefully for a sliver of opportunity to pigeonhole and place you, even in the most innocuous of interactions. You'll also start to notice - a big theme here lately - the 'crimestop duckspeak' automatons of the official narrative... they always try to catch themselves before they say something unorthodox.

    Replies: @Bert

    At one time I was interested in writing a book which would give mid-teen boys advice on how to navigate the world. The perspective you discuss would have been a cornerstone of the book. Diagnose the counterparty and from there the decision of how to handle them is not difficult. Many people are, however, too focused on presentation of self to carry out this exercise; Dale Carnegie-ism is a poor second to the analytic approach.

  112. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    @Nikolai Vladivostok

    Upscale neighborhoods are not ‘lily white,’ which is part of how they rationalize their faith-based political views.

    There is Jack Pendergast’s wife over at Dumbarton Oaks, you know the high-caste Indian woman he married after the kids moved out and Carol divorced him? Then there’s that interesting Dr. Castenada on 31st, next to the Philips place? He teaches sociology over at Georgetown but I believe he’s taken a sabbatical to write his book on revolutionary Latin American poets. And of course the the Rafsanjanis in N street, but I believe they are away in Paris at the moment, she’s there with her uncle’s Persian art collection. And that lovely Mr Mobutu and his wife and what is it, five children now? Sally Quinn’s sister made a packet selling them that old manse with the awful plumbing.

    This is what these people mean by meritocracy. They have contempt for riff raff of all races. You just happen to be the local variety.

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

    “He teaches sociology over at Georgetown but I believe he’s taken a sabbatical to write his book on revolutionary Latin American poets.”

    Well if he at least includes Cesar Vallejo then maybe I’ll consider giving him a tiny bit of a pass.

    On the other hand, he probably wouldn’t say a single intelligent thing about Cesar Vallejo, so….. ah, just go ahead and bill his family for the bullet.

  113. @Art Deco
    @countenance

    I wouldn't expect working politicians to have much to say about translated academic literature on psychometrics and social policy. Very few people are in their element discussing tests-and-measurements psychology.

    Also, what the federal government does is to provide a conduit for ed policy types very distant from the world of workaday teachers to impose cider house rules on others. The simplest way to improve the federal Department of Education is to assign the statistical collection and assessment to the Labor Department, incorporate a resolutions authority to wind down the grant and loan programs available to the general public, append an office to the Federal Trade Commission to draft regulations on the rubrics of the vendor-vendor vendor-client relation in the higher education sector, and close the residue of the department down, terminating all other programs and employees. It's not a large department, but it's a stew of vicious stupidity that needs to go away.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    It’s not a large department, but it’s a stew of vicious stupidity that needs to go away.

    It also has its own SWAT team for some reason.

  114. @Gary in Gramercy
    @The Germ Theory of Disease

    I'll see your one-chord wonders, and raise you:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JedfQ2XzlDU

    Replies: @The Germ Theory of Disease

    Ho ho ho my friend, if you want to beat musical monomania, try this on for size……

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/wnba/anchor-drop-99-days-to-kickoff/ar-AAKtQKZ

    or if you _really_ want to get single-minded, well there’s always this……

    I’ll wait.

  115. @bigdicknick
    Charles Murray straight up backboard breaking slam dunked on David "controlled opposition" French on twitter yesterday as I am sure many people on here saw. Good stuff!

    Replies: @David In TN, @MEH 0910

    Obtuse son Bennett doesn’t understand that father Charles is being a hero with those tweets. Charles Murray is laying out for reckless “conservative” David French something he really needs to hear and take to heart.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @MEH 0910

    He cut up his dad on Twitter?



    Here's the son:

    https://www.bennettmurray.com/

    https://vn.linkedin.com/in/bennett-murray-4b330155?trk=people-guest_people_search-card



    Note: a public records search on the son turns up a date of birth of March 1985.

    , @res
    @MEH 0910

    That last tweet is sad. And makes clear the personal cost of speaking uncomfortable truths today.

    , @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    Not subscribing:

    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1422310361290641414

    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1422312484518744070
    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1422315473895661569

    Steve, Cathy Young is referring to you.

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @MEH 0910, @res

  116. @Jack D
    @Hi There

    What you are asking for is already true. If you want to take an advanced math class, someone will take your money. It just won't be Harvard or any other top 50 university. But after that, there are tons of seats available for all comers. If you count online classes, an infinite number.

    But for someone who is good at math, you don't know the meaning of "zero sum game". In the short run (and for various reasons, even the long run- the size of the freshman class at most prestigious universities has remained fairly constant for decades and has not even kept up with population growth) the number of seats in top universities is fixed. Right now, top universities are rejecting 24 out of every 25 applicants. If they take you, that means that they can't take someone else. Getting rid of SATs doesn't mean that everyone can go to Harvard now. It means that Harvard can select its students by race or some other criterion instead of merit. They always did this, but now they don't even have to pretend anymore.

    Nor could it be otherwise - if Harvard expanded its freshman class by a factor of 25 so that they could take every applicant, it wouldn't be "Harvard" and the people who they really want wouldn't want their product anymore. The value of their brand lies in its exclusivity.

    OTOH, if all that you are interested in is learning math, there are tons of ways to do that - they just don't give you the prestigious credential.

    Replies: @Inquiring Mind, @Hi There

    Harkening back to the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings, there was a parade of “witnesses” attesting to Ivy League credentials, which made one lone guy who had attended the Illinois Institute of Technology stand out. This led to a comment by Paul Simon (the Senator from Illinois, not the singer-song writer, which had to be explained in news reports at the time) that “Illinois Institute of Technology is a fine, fine school.”

    Illinois Institute of Technology is one of those places where you can learn math and even earn a law degree if I remember correctly, and yes, it won’t put you on the fast-track to being appointed to the Supreme Court or even as part of pool of clerks and other camp followers of the three branches of the Federal Government.

    Graduating from Harvard won’t put you on that track either. Getting on that track is not a matter of having taken certain courses of study at Harvard, it is a matter of friendships and personal social relationships, many of which are established by what housing unit you are placed in. Harvard does a good job of “tracking” and “segregating” the “in crowd”, whether minority or majority race from the rabble whom they admit, either based on racial preference or academics to obtain the desired “balance” of their student body.

    Yes, our elites have become more racially diverse, but our elites are still drawn from a narrow pool of persons who have known each other over much of their lifetimes.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Inquiring Mind

    Yes, our elites have become more racially diverse, but our elites are still drawn from a narrow pool of persons who have known each other over much of their lifetimes.

    Nope. Have a gander at the biographies of Fortune 500 CEO's. The Ivies are there, but lots else is there. The Ivies issue somewhat north of 20,000 baccalaureate degrees per year and many of their graduates go on to live quite ordinary lives. It wouldn't be enough to staff the 1% even if they all went on to elite positions. The federal appellate judiciary is chock-a-block with people who have those kind of credentials (a phenomenon I believe is fairly novel). That's a tiny fraction of the elite.

    Replies: @Bill, @Inquiring Mind

    , @black sea
    @Inquiring Mind

    Eric Weinstein has an interesting story about what he experienced along these lines as a graduate student.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgGZMRJ15oY

    , @Hi There
    @Inquiring Mind


    Getting on that track [super elite career track] is not a matter of having taken certain courses of study at Harvard, it is a matter of friendships and personal social relationships, many of which are established by what housing unit you are placed in.
     
    Sure. Much of the value of Harvard is as this super elite social club.

    At some level, they are allowed to have an exclusive social club, it's just unreasonable to expect public money to pay for it. It's actually outrageous to think that people denied membership to these exclusive social clubs are obligated to pay the bill.

    Personally, everything should move away from government funding + subsidies. But if the government is going to subsidize something in higher education, it should be education + career options for the masses (of all races), not exclusive social clubs for a select few.

  117. @Alden
    @Anon

    Ron Unz made the very intelligent, wise, knowledgeable, sophisticated I guess is the word comment that all this fretting fuming fussing and studying the condition of blacks is futile.

    The elites and the bulk of the middle and working class are completely on the side of the blacks against the Whites. So is academia from pre school to university religion judiciary the media all businesses and all government agencies from local library boards to congress and the presidency. A few asian Hispanic Indians who’ve been victims of black crime are aware of the reality of American blacks. But those groups are all bloc voters for the anti White democrat party.

    There is not one element of American society that is not anti White.

    Except for the gun lobby. And that’s only because they won’t betray their White customers as every other American business has.

    American Whites are living in enemy territory.

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev

    Except for the gun lobby

    Hah! The gun lobby is why American blacks are armed and dangerous. We have problems with blacks in Europe but we don’t give them guns. We have laws that make it easy enough for white natives to own guns, not immigrants or dangerous criminal types. The 2nd Amendment is a joke.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Hah! The gun lobby is why American blacks are armed and dangerous.

    It has nothing to do with that. Any ecological study of the United States will demonstrate that levels of gun ownership are not correlated with rates of violent crime and our primary exemplar of social renorming (New York City, 1990-2010) required no changes at all in the regulations governing the possession of firearms.

    , @Joe Stalin
    @Peter Akuleyev


    Hah! The gun lobby is why American blacks are armed and dangerous. We have problems with blacks in Europe but we don’t give them guns. We have laws that make it easy enough for white natives to own guns, not immigrants or dangerous criminal types. The 2nd Amendment is a joke.
     

    BRIEF FOR AMICUS CURIAE NATIONAL
    AFRICAN AMERICAN GUN ASSOCIATION, INC.
    IN SUPPORT OF PETITIONERS

    STEPHEN P. HALBROOK
    NEZIDA S. DAVIS
    https://www.google.com/url?esrc=s&q=&rct=j&sa=U&url=https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/20/20-843/184073/20210716105200825_Amicus%2520Brief%2520of%2520National%2520African%2520American%2520Gun%2520Association%2520Inc.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjCsPa5spDyAhWBZ80KHUzYAQYQFjAGegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2kB00JjfwTRR9IrUB3_FkW
     
    , @John Johnson
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Hah! The gun lobby is why American blacks are armed and dangerous. We have problems with blacks in Europe but we don’t give them guns. We have laws that make it easy enough for white natives to own guns, not immigrants or dangerous criminal types. The 2nd Amendment is a joke.

    Do tell which European country makes it easy enough for White natives to own guns.

    Needs to be a Western European country, not an Eastern European country with guns and borders.

    Also explain how letting Blacks kill each other with knives (See UK "knife crime") is progress that we should aspire to.

  118. @MEH 0910
    @bigdicknick

    https://twitter.com/charlesmurray/status/1421073352886718468
    https://twitter.com/swinshi/status/1421195997577875456
    https://twitter.com/BDMurray/status/1421394689958334466

    Obtuse son Bennett doesn't understand that father Charles is being a hero with those tweets. Charles Murray is laying out for reckless "conservative" David French something he really needs to hear and take to heart.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @res, @MEH 0910

    He cut up his dad on Twitter?

    Here’s the son:

    https://www.bennettmurray.com/

    https://vn.linkedin.com/in/bennett-murray-4b330155?trk=people-guest_people_search-card

    Note: a public records search on the son turns up a date of birth of March 1985.

  119. @Inquiring Mind
    @Jack D

    Harkening back to the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings, there was a parade of "witnesses" attesting to Ivy League credentials, which made one lone guy who had attended the Illinois Institute of Technology stand out. This led to a comment by Paul Simon (the Senator from Illinois, not the singer-song writer, which had to be explained in news reports at the time) that "Illinois Institute of Technology is a fine, fine school."

    Illinois Institute of Technology is one of those places where you can learn math and even earn a law degree if I remember correctly, and yes, it won't put you on the fast-track to being appointed to the Supreme Court or even as part of pool of clerks and other camp followers of the three branches of the Federal Government.

    Graduating from Harvard won't put you on that track either. Getting on that track is not a matter of having taken certain courses of study at Harvard, it is a matter of friendships and personal social relationships, many of which are established by what housing unit you are placed in. Harvard does a good job of "tracking" and "segregating" the "in crowd", whether minority or majority race from the rabble whom they admit, either based on racial preference or academics to obtain the desired "balance" of their student body.

    Yes, our elites have become more racially diverse, but our elites are still drawn from a narrow pool of persons who have known each other over much of their lifetimes.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @black sea, @Hi There

    Yes, our elites have become more racially diverse, but our elites are still drawn from a narrow pool of persons who have known each other over much of their lifetimes.

    Nope. Have a gander at the biographies of Fortune 500 CEO’s. The Ivies are there, but lots else is there. The Ivies issue somewhat north of 20,000 baccalaureate degrees per year and many of their graduates go on to live quite ordinary lives. It wouldn’t be enough to staff the 1% even if they all went on to elite positions. The federal appellate judiciary is chock-a-block with people who have those kind of credentials (a phenomenon I believe is fairly novel). That’s a tiny fraction of the elite.

    • Replies: @Bill
    @Art Deco


    The federal appellate judiciary is chock-a-block with people who have those kind of credentials (a phenomenon I believe is fairly novel).
     
    The rabbit peers out of the hat.
    , @Inquiring Mind
    @Art Deco

    Nope? Yup?

    The Fortune 500 CEO's? Is the social distinction between "Vaisyas (merchant caste) and Brahmins (priestly caste)" "a thing"? Who are the elites? Are they the merchants? Or are they the priests?

    Yes, the Captains of Industry often come from non-elite schools and more diverse backgrounds than Supreme Court justices. What does this tell us about our society and its elites?

    Replies: @Art Deco

  120. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Alden

    Except for the gun lobby

    Hah! The gun lobby is why American blacks are armed and dangerous. We have problems with blacks in Europe but we don’t give them guns. We have laws that make it easy enough for white natives to own guns, not immigrants or dangerous criminal types. The 2nd Amendment is a joke.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Joe Stalin, @John Johnson

    Hah! The gun lobby is why American blacks are armed and dangerous.

    It has nothing to do with that. Any ecological study of the United States will demonstrate that levels of gun ownership are not correlated with rates of violent crime and our primary exemplar of social renorming (New York City, 1990-2010) required no changes at all in the regulations governing the possession of firearms.

  121. @Inquiring Mind
    @Jack D

    Harkening back to the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings, there was a parade of "witnesses" attesting to Ivy League credentials, which made one lone guy who had attended the Illinois Institute of Technology stand out. This led to a comment by Paul Simon (the Senator from Illinois, not the singer-song writer, which had to be explained in news reports at the time) that "Illinois Institute of Technology is a fine, fine school."

    Illinois Institute of Technology is one of those places where you can learn math and even earn a law degree if I remember correctly, and yes, it won't put you on the fast-track to being appointed to the Supreme Court or even as part of pool of clerks and other camp followers of the three branches of the Federal Government.

    Graduating from Harvard won't put you on that track either. Getting on that track is not a matter of having taken certain courses of study at Harvard, it is a matter of friendships and personal social relationships, many of which are established by what housing unit you are placed in. Harvard does a good job of "tracking" and "segregating" the "in crowd", whether minority or majority race from the rabble whom they admit, either based on racial preference or academics to obtain the desired "balance" of their student body.

    Yes, our elites have become more racially diverse, but our elites are still drawn from a narrow pool of persons who have known each other over much of their lifetimes.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @black sea, @Hi There

    Eric Weinstein has an interesting story about what he experienced along these lines as a graduate student.

    • Thanks: Inquiring Mind
  122. @John Milton’s Ghost
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi

    That’s National Review in general since about 2008, if not 2000. I grew up with that magazine, and in my young adulthood, in the 1990s, it was still fearless in its willingness to take on the left’s sacred cows, as well as let right wingers have a variety of opinions. But then it became about war and unregulated global finance. I didn’t realize it until Barry O was elected, when every article felt like some kind of triangulation spinning exercise to sound right of left of right of center, and be fully respectable to any upper middle class Manhattan audience.

    Replies: @Bill

    in the 1990s, it was still fearless in its willingness to take on the left’s sacred cows

    We all suffer from nostalgia. Pat Buchanan ran for president in the 1990s. When it was talking about him, did NR show anything other than utter servility to the “left’s” narrative? What did the 1990s NR think of Lincoln? What did it think of Wilson?

    The 1990s were a part of NR’s make-leftoid-arguments-to-moderate-conclusions era. Making leftoid arguments to moderate conclusions is objectively leftist—it is a way of disarming and re-directing people who would be on the right towards embracing a leftoid world-view. It was only on the right briefly after its founding, and even there I’m open to be convinced otherwise. From the brief glimpses I get watching people fisk them occasionally, it seems their servility to the left has expanded to encompass everything but tax cuts.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Bill

    NR did publish some dubious material in that era. See Andrew Bacevich's debut article in 1993 trashing the military's restrictions on open homosexuality in the ranks. Palaeo outlets who've promoted Bacevich's work have misunderstood his objects.

    , @Mark G.
    @Bill


    We all suffer from nostalgia. Pat Buchanan ran for president in the 1990s. When it was talking about him, did NR show anything other than utter servility to the “left’s” narrative?
     
    NR opposed conservatives with isolationist tendencies going all the way back to the 1950s. When John T. Flynn submitted an article attacking the military-industrial complex, they wouldn't publish it. They had Frank Meyer attack Murray Rothbard because of his isolationist tendencies. They opposed the John Birch Society for the same reason. Ayn Rand had questioned having Stalin as an ally in World War II and NR later hired Whittaker Chambers to give Atlas Shrugged a bad review. Their opposition to Buchanan in the nineties, Ron Paul in his Republican primary runs, and then Trump is just a continuation of opposing anyone who might be against an interventionist foreign policy.

    Replies: @Art Deco

  123. @Art Deco
    @Inquiring Mind

    Yes, our elites have become more racially diverse, but our elites are still drawn from a narrow pool of persons who have known each other over much of their lifetimes.

    Nope. Have a gander at the biographies of Fortune 500 CEO's. The Ivies are there, but lots else is there. The Ivies issue somewhat north of 20,000 baccalaureate degrees per year and many of their graduates go on to live quite ordinary lives. It wouldn't be enough to staff the 1% even if they all went on to elite positions. The federal appellate judiciary is chock-a-block with people who have those kind of credentials (a phenomenon I believe is fairly novel). That's a tiny fraction of the elite.

    Replies: @Bill, @Inquiring Mind

    The federal appellate judiciary is chock-a-block with people who have those kind of credentials (a phenomenon I believe is fairly novel).

    The rabbit peers out of the hat.

  124. I hope C. Murray changes his will, if he hasn’t already.

  125. @dux.ie
    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-t9kfx9dND14/YQXrvFdN2-I/AAAAAAAAAOY/fNzJdE-TJsQHwaN4BionP0bKTcr074QFgCLcBGAsYHQ/s640/nlsmed.png

    The Data are from the US Natioanl Longitudinal Study supplementary data of Murray's book, https://www.encounterbooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Combined-Longitudinal-Studies-0615.xlsx

    The results of equality of outcome from the Diversity, Inclusion and Equity D.I.E doctrine is pretty obvious even when race is not highlighted in the chart. There are significant number of nurses with IQ ≥ 115 smarter than the physicians with IQ ≤ 115 and some are even below IQ 100 and one even with IQ of 77. How do the later gain respect from the former?? Does USA prefer to import physicians from India rather than training those smart local nurses to be physicians?? The army has deemed those below IQ 85 are untrainable and there are significant number of health assistants and aides below IQ 85.

    More data and bigger charts at http://relativevolatility.blogspot.com

    Replies: @res

    There are significant number of nurses with IQ ≥ 115 smarter than the physicians with IQ ≤ 115 and some are even below IQ 100 and one even with IQ of 77. How do the later gain respect from the former??

    That is an interesting point. One wrinkle I find interesting is I think the overlapping distributions for physicians and nurses had different causes at different times.

    In the more distant (but still within living memory) past nurse was one of the few occupations popular with women so (along with teacher) was a typical place for high IQ women who wanted to work to land. So you had high IQ subsets for men and women sorting into physicians and nurses respectively and it seems likely those would overlap.

    More recently affirmative action means the lower end of physician IQ is likely to be more populated than in the past. Though it is unclear to me if smart women who would have been nurses once now becoming doctors is a countering effect.

    Would it be worth replicating your analysis split into early/late NLSY, black/white, and male/female subgroups? Or are the sample sizes becoming too small to be useful even for a binary split?

    FWIW, the nurse/doctor respect relationship can be complicated. I think of it as a bit like the newbie officer and veteran noncom relationship in the military (though I think that one is relatively more experience based and less IQ etc. based).

    P.S. I wonder what those 120 IQ health assistants think of things.

  126. @Bill
    @John Milton’s Ghost


    in the 1990s, it was still fearless in its willingness to take on the left’s sacred cows
     
    We all suffer from nostalgia. Pat Buchanan ran for president in the 1990s. When it was talking about him, did NR show anything other than utter servility to the "left's" narrative? What did the 1990s NR think of Lincoln? What did it think of Wilson?

    The 1990s were a part of NR's make-leftoid-arguments-to-moderate-conclusions era. Making leftoid arguments to moderate conclusions is objectively leftist---it is a way of disarming and re-directing people who would be on the right towards embracing a leftoid world-view. It was only on the right briefly after its founding, and even there I'm open to be convinced otherwise. From the brief glimpses I get watching people fisk them occasionally, it seems their servility to the left has expanded to encompass everything but tax cuts.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Mark G.

    NR did publish some dubious material in that era. See Andrew Bacevich’s debut article in 1993 trashing the military’s restrictions on open homosexuality in the ranks. Palaeo outlets who’ve promoted Bacevich’s work have misunderstood his objects.

  127. @MEH 0910
    @bigdicknick

    https://twitter.com/charlesmurray/status/1421073352886718468
    https://twitter.com/swinshi/status/1421195997577875456
    https://twitter.com/BDMurray/status/1421394689958334466

    Obtuse son Bennett doesn't understand that father Charles is being a hero with those tweets. Charles Murray is laying out for reckless "conservative" David French something he really needs to hear and take to heart.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @res, @MEH 0910

    That last tweet is sad. And makes clear the personal cost of speaking uncomfortable truths today.

  128. David French’s latest piece:

  129. @Jack D
    @Art Deco

    When my wife was a little girl she had a fantasy that someday the drinking fountains in her elementary school would dispense chilled Hawaiian Punch instead of lukewarm tap water. I think her fantasy has a better chance of being implemented in America 2021 than your fantasy has.

    Replies: @AnotherDad

    I think her fantasy has a better chance of being implemented in America 2021 than your fantasy has.

    Yes. Getting any positive reform through the public ed bureaucracy is darn near impossible.

    That’s one of the reasons it’s better to go around them with educational choice.

    It’s difficult to imagine the public bureaucracy actually delivering schools that are capable of decently educating underclass blacks. But it’s not very difficult at all to think up reforms that would help a great deal–help large numbers of blacks improve their lot in life. So let motivated–preferably black–educators get to work on doing it.

    And more importantly–for me–let conservative parents get their kids out from under the PC nonsense and indoctrination.

  130. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Alden

    Except for the gun lobby

    Hah! The gun lobby is why American blacks are armed and dangerous. We have problems with blacks in Europe but we don’t give them guns. We have laws that make it easy enough for white natives to own guns, not immigrants or dangerous criminal types. The 2nd Amendment is a joke.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Joe Stalin, @John Johnson

    Hah! The gun lobby is why American blacks are armed and dangerous. We have problems with blacks in Europe but we don’t give them guns. We have laws that make it easy enough for white natives to own guns, not immigrants or dangerous criminal types. The 2nd Amendment is a joke.

    BRIEF FOR AMICUS CURIAE NATIONAL
    AFRICAN AMERICAN GUN ASSOCIATION, INC.
    IN SUPPORT OF PETITIONERS

    STEPHEN P. HALBROOK
    NEZIDA S. DAVIS
    https://www.google.com/url?esrc=s&q=&rct=j&sa=U&url=https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/20/20-843/184073/20210716105200825_Amicus%2520Brief%2520of%2520National%2520African%2520American%2520Gun%2520Association%2520Inc.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjCsPa5spDyAhWBZ80KHUzYAQYQFjAGegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2kB00JjfwTRR9IrUB3_FkW

  131. @Bill
    @John Milton’s Ghost


    in the 1990s, it was still fearless in its willingness to take on the left’s sacred cows
     
    We all suffer from nostalgia. Pat Buchanan ran for president in the 1990s. When it was talking about him, did NR show anything other than utter servility to the "left's" narrative? What did the 1990s NR think of Lincoln? What did it think of Wilson?

    The 1990s were a part of NR's make-leftoid-arguments-to-moderate-conclusions era. Making leftoid arguments to moderate conclusions is objectively leftist---it is a way of disarming and re-directing people who would be on the right towards embracing a leftoid world-view. It was only on the right briefly after its founding, and even there I'm open to be convinced otherwise. From the brief glimpses I get watching people fisk them occasionally, it seems their servility to the left has expanded to encompass everything but tax cuts.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Mark G.

    We all suffer from nostalgia. Pat Buchanan ran for president in the 1990s. When it was talking about him, did NR show anything other than utter servility to the “left’s” narrative?

    NR opposed conservatives with isolationist tendencies going all the way back to the 1950s. When John T. Flynn submitted an article attacking the military-industrial complex, they wouldn’t publish it. They had Frank Meyer attack Murray Rothbard because of his isolationist tendencies. They opposed the John Birch Society for the same reason. Ayn Rand had questioned having Stalin as an ally in World War II and NR later hired Whittaker Chambers to give Atlas Shrugged a bad review. Their opposition to Buchanan in the nineties, Ron Paul in his Republican primary runs, and then Trump is just a continuation of opposing anyone who might be against an interventionist foreign policy.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Mark G.

    They opposed the John Birch Society for the same reason.

    No, they opposed the John Birch Society because the Society's president routinely made lunatic remarks (calling Gen Eisenhower 'a conscious agent of the Communist conspiracy') and they figured the membership was on board with it.

    Ayn Rand had questioned having Stalin as an ally in World War II and NR later hired Whittaker Chambers to give Atlas Shrugged a bad review.

    His evaluation of the book is in the review itself and had squat to do with Ayn Rand's views on WWii.

  132. @Art Deco
    @Inquiring Mind

    Yes, our elites have become more racially diverse, but our elites are still drawn from a narrow pool of persons who have known each other over much of their lifetimes.

    Nope. Have a gander at the biographies of Fortune 500 CEO's. The Ivies are there, but lots else is there. The Ivies issue somewhat north of 20,000 baccalaureate degrees per year and many of their graduates go on to live quite ordinary lives. It wouldn't be enough to staff the 1% even if they all went on to elite positions. The federal appellate judiciary is chock-a-block with people who have those kind of credentials (a phenomenon I believe is fairly novel). That's a tiny fraction of the elite.

    Replies: @Bill, @Inquiring Mind

    Nope? Yup?

    The Fortune 500 CEO’s? Is the social distinction between “Vaisyas (merchant caste) and Brahmins (priestly caste)” “a thing”? Who are the elites? Are they the merchants? Or are they the priests?

    Yes, the Captains of Industry often come from non-elite schools and more diverse backgrounds than Supreme Court justices. What does this tell us about our society and its elites?

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Inquiring Mind

    When you've sobered up and can write a coherent sentence, get back to me.

  133. @Goddard
    @Dr. Doom


    White racial consciousness has arrived at last.
     
    No it has not. Sportsball is more popular than ever, the border is being overrun and no one is doing a thing about it, enlistments in the globohomo armed forces are as robust as ever, and white people are fat and tatted and are slurping up the crystal meth and fentanol. Whites continue to have the look of a people defeated in war and are but a shadow of the people they once were. Nothing less than a spiritual re-awakening is going to deliver whites from their predicament, and I see zero sign of it currently.

    Replies: @Uncle Dan, @Corvinus

    “Sportsball is more popular than ever…”

    As well as it ought to be for white men and white women.

    “Whites continue to have the look of a people defeated in war and are but a shadow of the people they once were.”

    Or maybe they are even stronger than what you are portraying them to be merely because they are making their own decisions about race and culture that you oppose.

    “Nothing less than a spiritual re-awakening is going to deliver whites from their predicament, and I see zero sign of it currently.”

    Thank you for your virtue signaling.

  134. @ben tillman
    @Yojimbo/Zatoichi


    Sounds as if he’d prefer not to focus on these very uncomfortable topics.
     
    There is nothing uncomfortable about these topics.

    Replies: @res, @Joseph Doaks

    “There is nothing uncomfortable about these topics.”

    Correct. Allowing the left to censor us by buying in to their politically correct language allows them to win the argument by default.

  135. @3g4me
    @Desiderius

    @15 Desiderius: Many of us would strenuously disagree with Khan that all those born on America's magic dirt are our countrymen. I would argue Numerica is not my nation. I don't particularly care about the welfare of black children, or Guatemalan children . . . living in Africa or Guatemala or Numerica. They are not my people. Now in my 60s, I am all out of compassion for anyone but my own people. They deserve it and can and will reciprocate it. God is responsible for all of earth's people; White Americans are not.

    Replies: @Joseph Doaks

    “Many of us would strenuously disagree with Khan that all those born on America’s magic dirt are our countrymen.”

    Yes, like Biden in the White House, they’re here by virtue of being rammed down our throats against our wishes.

  136. I would never grant people their claim of ignorance regarding race issues. This debate has been going on in Chicago for over 100 years. The left is making the same arguments today that they did 100 years ago. https://www.gutenberg.org/files/57343/57343-h/57343-h.htm

  137. @Mark G.
    @Bill


    We all suffer from nostalgia. Pat Buchanan ran for president in the 1990s. When it was talking about him, did NR show anything other than utter servility to the “left’s” narrative?
     
    NR opposed conservatives with isolationist tendencies going all the way back to the 1950s. When John T. Flynn submitted an article attacking the military-industrial complex, they wouldn't publish it. They had Frank Meyer attack Murray Rothbard because of his isolationist tendencies. They opposed the John Birch Society for the same reason. Ayn Rand had questioned having Stalin as an ally in World War II and NR later hired Whittaker Chambers to give Atlas Shrugged a bad review. Their opposition to Buchanan in the nineties, Ron Paul in his Republican primary runs, and then Trump is just a continuation of opposing anyone who might be against an interventionist foreign policy.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    They opposed the John Birch Society for the same reason.

    No, they opposed the John Birch Society because the Society’s president routinely made lunatic remarks (calling Gen Eisenhower ‘a conscious agent of the Communist conspiracy’) and they figured the membership was on board with it.

    Ayn Rand had questioned having Stalin as an ally in World War II and NR later hired Whittaker Chambers to give Atlas Shrugged a bad review.

    His evaluation of the book is in the review itself and had squat to do with Ayn Rand’s views on WWii.

  138. @Inquiring Mind
    @Art Deco

    Nope? Yup?

    The Fortune 500 CEO's? Is the social distinction between "Vaisyas (merchant caste) and Brahmins (priestly caste)" "a thing"? Who are the elites? Are they the merchants? Or are they the priests?

    Yes, the Captains of Industry often come from non-elite schools and more diverse backgrounds than Supreme Court justices. What does this tell us about our society and its elites?

    Replies: @Art Deco

    When you’ve sobered up and can write a coherent sentence, get back to me.

  139. anonymous[483] • Disclaimer says:
    @Ron Unz
    Well, I never bothered reading The Bell Curve back in 1994 because the senior author, Richard Herrnstein, had been saying pretty much the same thing since 1970.

    All those issues have been already very well known by anyone interested in the subject for more than two generations now. Back in 1985 Herrnstein had also co-authored a fine book on racial differences in crime rates with James Q. Wilson entitled Crime and Human Nature.

    I'll admit I haven't read the new Charles Murray book, but I just don't quite see the purpose of it. Wouldn't a simple pamphlet with a few basic charts and graphs be just as useful?

    I think the one possible argument for such a book would be to attract enough media coverage, hostile or not, to get those ideas to the attention of individuals too young to have been around during the TBC controversy more than 25 years ago. But the opponents aren't falling for that obvious trick and are just giving Murray's book the "silent treatment," which is the typical counter-strategy.

    I've been friendly with some very eminent journalists or scholars who suffered that same fate, and somehow desperately believed that one more column, raising a few different points or presenting them in a slightly different manner would somehow do the trick. But that's merely wishful thinking---the fix is in....

    Replies: @Anonymous, @Anon, @Desiderius, @Stan d Mute, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @anonymous

    I am 25 years old. I just read the new Charles Murray book. After I read it, I send him an email telling him how much I liked his book. He responded, and I think he was quite happy a 25 year old was reading his book.

  140. The total failure of this book to even get noticed is yet more proof that white nationalism is the only valid strategy for whites who want to fight anti-white discrimination.

  141. @Peter Akuleyev
    @Alden

    Except for the gun lobby

    Hah! The gun lobby is why American blacks are armed and dangerous. We have problems with blacks in Europe but we don’t give them guns. We have laws that make it easy enough for white natives to own guns, not immigrants or dangerous criminal types. The 2nd Amendment is a joke.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @Joe Stalin, @John Johnson

    Hah! The gun lobby is why American blacks are armed and dangerous. We have problems with blacks in Europe but we don’t give them guns. We have laws that make it easy enough for white natives to own guns, not immigrants or dangerous criminal types. The 2nd Amendment is a joke.

    Do tell which European country makes it easy enough for White natives to own guns.

    Needs to be a Western European country, not an Eastern European country with guns and borders.

    Also explain how letting Blacks kill each other with knives (See UK “knife crime”) is progress that we should aspire to.

  142. @Jack D

    most Americans know about these problems, even if they’d rather not dwell on them or state them out loud in crude terms
     
    This is a hilarious interpretation of reality. Everyone knows about black crime and low intelligence but we'd "rather not dwell on them". It's something distasteful like when your granny farts at the dinner table but you can't call her on it ("out loud in crude terms").

    OR maybe, we are living in a totalitarian environment and if you dare to say anything, you lose your job and all your friends shun you for fear of losing theirs as well? It's not that they would "rather not", it's that they are pee-in-their-pants afraid of saying anything publicly lest they be declared unpersons.

    I could see Khan writing about Moscow in 1936:

    "Most Russians know about the problems with Stalin, even if they’d rather not dwell on them or state them out loud in crude terms."

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @Art Deco, @John Johnson

    This is a hilarious interpretation of reality. Everyone knows about black crime and low intelligence but we’d “rather not dwell on them”. It’s something distasteful like when your granny farts at the dinner table but you can’t call her on it (“out loud in crude terms”).

    OR maybe, we are living in a totalitarian environment and if you dare to say anything, you lose your job and all your friends shun you for fear of losing theirs as well? It’s not that they would “rather not”, it’s that they are pee-in-their-pants afraid of saying anything publicly lest they be declared unpersons.

    There is truth in all of it. We do have totalitarian systems in the colleges and media that will ruin your career and name if you speak honestly about race.

    But the majority of liberals and conservatives that have lived near Blacks (not a friendly mulatto neighbor but a Black area) take the position that we should lie about it because of PC/Christianity/whatever. They would support that position voluntarily. This group though is less than 25% of Whites, probably closer to 10% I would guess.

    Most White people really do believe what they are told in church/schools and most importantly on TV which is that race doesn’t exist or isn’t significant enough to cause unequal outcomes. Those outcomes are either caused by Bad White Men (liberal explanation) or socialism/lack of morals (conservative explanation).

    In college I was really disappointed by the conservatives that I met. So many really believed that Christian morals and the free market could fix everything including racial inequality. It was shocking and I really expected more to have a different view in private.

    I have actually had more liberals admit privately that it is a lie. Most liberals that have lived near Blacks will privately admit it is a lie if they trust you. Or just give them a few drinks and let them do the talking. A lot of them have pent up frustrations with having to constantly lie about reality. It really isn’t good for the psyche. But they all think that society will revert to some Nazi extreme if we stop lying. The truly disturbing part is how many believe in lying to their children. I could never get over that aspect. They knew it was based on lies and still were willing to sacrifice their children if needed. Sickening. Christian conservatives at least put their kids in private schools if they live in a sketchy area.

  143. @Anon
    The Olympic Men's 3-on-3 Basketball final was all white, with Latvia beating Russia for the gold medal:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7DjExb3tNA

    Replies: @AndrewR, @Mr. Grey, @gandydancer

    The Olympic Men’s 3-on-3 Basketball final was all white, with Latvia beating Russia for the gold medal…

    I liked the idea (3 on 3 half court is actually the game I played) but I stopped watching at at 1:42 Three (four?) steps on the catch AND three steps on the layup?Watch it at .25 speed and tell me I’m wrong.

    The NBA game is bad enough on this score, I refuse to pay attention to worse.

  144. @Jenner Ickham Errican
    A new, useful acronym that addresses differences between group: IQ, “equity”, and “disparities” is the BEG: Brain Equity Gap. Goodthinkers should be questioned: "How can we fix the BEG?"

    Replies: @Gunnar von Cowtown, @gandydancer

    Goodthinkers should be questioned: “How can we fix the [Brain Equity Gap]?”

    I forget who the author was, but that was answered more than half a century ago in a science fiction short story: Fit the mentally talented with earphones to periodically blast their thoughts with random loud noises. Simple.

  145. I’m always trying to think through how truths we know from private life, such as those involving real estate, affect public life, such as criminal justice, and vice-versa.

    I do the same, and find it a good use of time to read you, because you sometimes catch something before I’ve seen it.

    But, face it, most people are not interested in truth. They don’t even understand that public policy should be guided by a correct model of how the world works. They just want to display their solidarity with their associates, and to feel the virtue-rush from that display.

    We will never get good public policy until we have a population that cares more about truth. I suppose this is an argument for eugenics.

    • Replies: @Art Deco
    @Cato

    But, face it, most people are not interested in truth. They don’t even understand that public policy should be guided by a correct model of how the world works. They just want to display their solidarity with their associates, and to feel the virtue-rush from that display.

    You live in a world where most people don't follow public affairs and have only idle opinions about such things. That's part of the problem here. If we had an attentive citizenry, the school administrators manufacturing a hostile environment for white youngsters would be run out of town on a rail.

  146. @Cato

    I’m always trying to think through how truths we know from private life, such as those involving real estate, affect public life, such as criminal justice, and vice-versa.
     
    I do the same, and find it a good use of time to read you, because you sometimes catch something before I've seen it.

    But, face it, most people are not interested in truth. They don't even understand that public policy should be guided by a correct model of how the world works. They just want to display their solidarity with their associates, and to feel the virtue-rush from that display.

    We will never get good public policy until we have a population that cares more about truth. I suppose this is an argument for eugenics.

    Replies: @Art Deco

    But, face it, most people are not interested in truth. They don’t even understand that public policy should be guided by a correct model of how the world works. They just want to display their solidarity with their associates, and to feel the virtue-rush from that display.

    You live in a world where most people don’t follow public affairs and have only idle opinions about such things. That’s part of the problem here. If we had an attentive citizenry, the school administrators manufacturing a hostile environment for white youngsters would be run out of town on a rail.

  147. @MEH 0910
    @bigdicknick

    https://twitter.com/charlesmurray/status/1421073352886718468
    https://twitter.com/swinshi/status/1421195997577875456
    https://twitter.com/BDMurray/status/1421394689958334466

    Obtuse son Bennett doesn't understand that father Charles is being a hero with those tweets. Charles Murray is laying out for reckless "conservative" David French something he really needs to hear and take to heart.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @res, @MEH 0910

    Not subscribing:

    Steve, Cathy Young is referring to you.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    Cathy Young Retweeted:
    https://twitter.com/AviWoolf/status/1422324908621697025

    https://twitter.com/AviWoolf/status/1422325236222070790
    https://twitter.com/AviWoolf/status/1422325959613689861
    https://twitter.com/AviWoolf/status/1422326777213603853
    https://twitter.com/AviWoolf/status/1422327396070481926
    https://twitter.com/AviWoolf/status/1422328325859577860
    https://twitter.com/AviWoolf/status/1422328946960576515
    https://twitter.com/AviWoolf/status/1422329697006989319

    , @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    Cathy Young, in reply to a tweet, tweeted a brief excerpt:

    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1422368665308221442

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E71Er0XX0AAUmS5.png

    Replies: @anon, @res, @bigdicknick

    , @res
    @MEH 0910

    The man who must not be named. Says a great deal about her view of the world. Thanks.

    If anyone does happen to subscribe, please post some excerpts. I suspect they would be amusing.

    Replies: @MEH 0910

  148. @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    Not subscribing:

    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1422310361290641414

    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1422312484518744070
    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1422315473895661569

    Steve, Cathy Young is referring to you.

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @MEH 0910, @res

    Cathy Young Retweeted:


    [MORE]

  149. @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    Not subscribing:

    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1422310361290641414

    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1422312484518744070
    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1422315473895661569

    Steve, Cathy Young is referring to you.

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @MEH 0910, @res

    Cathy Young, in reply to a tweet, tweeted a brief excerpt:


    [MORE]

    • Replies: @anon
    @MEH 0910

    If I recall correctly, Cathy Young is an aging liberteenian feminist who used to write at Reason, and maybe still does. She used to be shrill, dogmatic and unable to understand elementary science.

    , @res
    @MEH 0910

    I wonder how many things lacking clear definitive answers (say global warming for instance) Cathy Young and Lee Jussim happily consider scientific.

    Though they are right about the Rorschach test aspect of "genetic bases of IQ differences between groups.". It is just that the test is far more fine grained than she and Jussim seem to indicate. In addition to the two poles they probably have in mind there are people who attempt to evaluate the evidence on its merits and draw conclusions about what is likely.

    Replies: @MEH 0910

    , @bigdicknick
    @MEH 0910

    it's non-scientific to speculate about areas we currently don't have the technology to get a definitive answer. That's science 101. Unless something is proven you can't speculate about it.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

  150. @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    Cathy Young, in reply to a tweet, tweeted a brief excerpt:

    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1422368665308221442

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E71Er0XX0AAUmS5.png

    Replies: @anon, @res, @bigdicknick

    If I recall correctly, Cathy Young is an aging liberteenian feminist who used to write at Reason, and maybe still does. She used to be shrill, dogmatic and unable to understand elementary science.

  151. I would posit that most Americans know about these problems, even if they’d rather not dwell on them or state them out loud in crude terms. Some may cringe at the assertion that different racial groups have different levels of “cognitive ability” on average, for instance, but gaps in academic performance are widely accepted.

    I agree with this.

    I presume this crowd is driven by a reasonable resentment of the broad cultural strategy of blaming and shaming white people for the ills of the world, including black test scores and crime rates.

    The better response is attack the shaming, and focus on enjoying your own life.

    Don’t attack black people, as a group, or make them feel bad about their racial identity, or mock them for having low test averages. You should criticize individual people for doing something wrong to you. You shouldn’t criticize people for their racial group that didn’t do anything wrong to you.

    • Replies: @res
    @Hi There


    The better response is attack the shaming
     
    Please give a sample response (which goes beyond "that is not true") which you endorse. The more detail the better.
  152. @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    Not subscribing:

    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1422310361290641414

    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1422312484518744070
    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1422315473895661569

    Steve, Cathy Young is referring to you.

    Replies: @MEH 0910, @MEH 0910, @res

    The man who must not be named. Says a great deal about her view of the world. Thanks.

    If anyone does happen to subscribe, please post some excerpts. I suspect they would be amusing.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @res

    Cathy Young posted an excerpt:

    https://cathy.arcdigital.media/p/the-reality-of-race-realism-fc7

    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1422991543938453510

    Replies: @res

  153. @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    Cathy Young, in reply to a tweet, tweeted a brief excerpt:

    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1422368665308221442

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E71Er0XX0AAUmS5.png

    Replies: @anon, @res, @bigdicknick

    I wonder how many things lacking clear definitive answers (say global warming for instance) Cathy Young and Lee Jussim happily consider scientific.

    Though they are right about the Rorschach test aspect of “genetic bases of IQ differences between groups.”. It is just that the test is far more fine grained than she and Jussim seem to indicate. In addition to the two poles they probably have in mind there are people who attempt to evaluate the evidence on its merits and draw conclusions about what is likely.

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @res

    Cathy Young retweeted Lee Jussim:

    https://twitter.com/PsychRabble/status/1423988565919375367

  154. @Hi There

    I would posit that most Americans know about these problems, even if they’d rather not dwell on them or state them out loud in crude terms. Some may cringe at the assertion that different racial groups have different levels of “cognitive ability” on average, for instance, but gaps in academic performance are widely accepted.
     
    I agree with this.

    I presume this crowd is driven by a reasonable resentment of the broad cultural strategy of blaming and shaming white people for the ills of the world, including black test scores and crime rates.

    The better response is attack the shaming, and focus on enjoying your own life.

    Don't attack black people, as a group, or make them feel bad about their racial identity, or mock them for having low test averages. You should criticize individual people for doing something wrong to you. You shouldn't criticize people for their racial group that didn't do anything wrong to you.

    Replies: @res

    The better response is attack the shaming

    Please give a sample response (which goes beyond “that is not true”) which you endorse. The more detail the better.

  155. There’s someone worse than Sailer?
    Shit, what am I doing here?

  156. @Jack D
    @Hi There

    What you are asking for is already true. If you want to take an advanced math class, someone will take your money. It just won't be Harvard or any other top 50 university. But after that, there are tons of seats available for all comers. If you count online classes, an infinite number.

    But for someone who is good at math, you don't know the meaning of "zero sum game". In the short run (and for various reasons, even the long run- the size of the freshman class at most prestigious universities has remained fairly constant for decades and has not even kept up with population growth) the number of seats in top universities is fixed. Right now, top universities are rejecting 24 out of every 25 applicants. If they take you, that means that they can't take someone else. Getting rid of SATs doesn't mean that everyone can go to Harvard now. It means that Harvard can select its students by race or some other criterion instead of merit. They always did this, but now they don't even have to pretend anymore.

    Nor could it be otherwise - if Harvard expanded its freshman class by a factor of 25 so that they could take every applicant, it wouldn't be "Harvard" and the people who they really want wouldn't want their product anymore. The value of their brand lies in its exclusivity.

    OTOH, if all that you are interested in is learning math, there are tons of ways to do that - they just don't give you the prestigious credential.

    Replies: @Inquiring Mind, @Hi There

    But for someone who is good at math, you don’t know the meaning of “zero sum game”. … The value of [Harvard’s] brand lies in its exclusivity.

    No, I understand. You are defending Harvard’s exclusive brand financed on enormous amoungs of public money. I don’t.

    People should get credit and prestige for what they actually accomplish themselves, not for which fancy brand name schools grant them admission, based on the judgements of admissions boards and bureaucrats.

    I don’t love or hate the people at Harvard. I don’t really know them. I don’t think they deserve enormous levels of public money and prestige and an endowment that is basically a perpetuity inheritance from hundreds of years ago from a completely different group of people who were focused on Protestant religion.

    What you are asking for is already true. If you want to take an advanced math class, someone will take your money. It just won’t be Harvard or any other top 50 university.

    I don’t agree.

    At lower math levels, there’s tons of good options like Khan Academy. What I saw from Coursera, edX, Udacity wasn’t really serious about higher math.

    For high quality calculus 1+2 and differential equations: yes. Most community colleges offer high quality courses available to anyone who wants to take them for low cost.

    For things like integer number theory + mathematical cryptography, or probability + stochastic processes, or real analysis + topology: I don’t think there are good accessible options outside of prestigious universities, which are hard to get into, and often grant/reject students for many reasons other than ability.

  157. @Inquiring Mind
    @Jack D

    Harkening back to the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings, there was a parade of "witnesses" attesting to Ivy League credentials, which made one lone guy who had attended the Illinois Institute of Technology stand out. This led to a comment by Paul Simon (the Senator from Illinois, not the singer-song writer, which had to be explained in news reports at the time) that "Illinois Institute of Technology is a fine, fine school."

    Illinois Institute of Technology is one of those places where you can learn math and even earn a law degree if I remember correctly, and yes, it won't put you on the fast-track to being appointed to the Supreme Court or even as part of pool of clerks and other camp followers of the three branches of the Federal Government.

    Graduating from Harvard won't put you on that track either. Getting on that track is not a matter of having taken certain courses of study at Harvard, it is a matter of friendships and personal social relationships, many of which are established by what housing unit you are placed in. Harvard does a good job of "tracking" and "segregating" the "in crowd", whether minority or majority race from the rabble whom they admit, either based on racial preference or academics to obtain the desired "balance" of their student body.

    Yes, our elites have become more racially diverse, but our elites are still drawn from a narrow pool of persons who have known each other over much of their lifetimes.

    Replies: @Art Deco, @black sea, @Hi There

    Getting on that track [super elite career track] is not a matter of having taken certain courses of study at Harvard, it is a matter of friendships and personal social relationships, many of which are established by what housing unit you are placed in.

    Sure. Much of the value of Harvard is as this super elite social club.

    At some level, they are allowed to have an exclusive social club, it’s just unreasonable to expect public money to pay for it. It’s actually outrageous to think that people denied membership to these exclusive social clubs are obligated to pay the bill.

    Personally, everything should move away from government funding + subsidies. But if the government is going to subsidize something in higher education, it should be education + career options for the masses (of all races), not exclusive social clubs for a select few.

  158. @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    Cathy Young, in reply to a tweet, tweeted a brief excerpt:

    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1422368665308221442

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E71Er0XX0AAUmS5.png

    Replies: @anon, @res, @bigdicknick

    it’s non-scientific to speculate about areas we currently don’t have the technology to get a definitive answer. That’s science 101. Unless something is proven you can’t speculate about it.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @bigdicknick

    How do you figure out what to try to prove without speculating about it?

    Replies: @res, @Bigdicknick

  159. @bigdicknick
    @MEH 0910

    it's non-scientific to speculate about areas we currently don't have the technology to get a definitive answer. That's science 101. Unless something is proven you can't speculate about it.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer

    How do you figure out what to try to prove without speculating about it?

    • Agree: res
    • Replies: @res
    @Steve Sailer

    I consider this combination of views a great tell for what some people really believe.

    1. There is no definitive answer so we can't say anything. Beyond denying there is any genetic influence on racial differences in IQ (which BTW, IS a position which happens not to be definitively proved).
    2. We should not do further research in this area (and attack those who do).

    If in their hearts they really thought they were correct I think they would be striving to prove it.

    , @Bigdicknick
    @Steve Sailer

    I was being sarcastic

  160. @Steve Sailer
    @bigdicknick

    How do you figure out what to try to prove without speculating about it?

    Replies: @res, @Bigdicknick

    I consider this combination of views a great tell for what some people really believe.

    1. There is no definitive answer so we can’t say anything. Beyond denying there is any genetic influence on racial differences in IQ (which BTW, IS a position which happens not to be definitively proved).
    2. We should not do further research in this area (and attack those who do).

    If in their hearts they really thought they were correct I think they would be striving to prove it.

  161. @res
    @MEH 0910

    The man who must not be named. Says a great deal about her view of the world. Thanks.

    If anyone does happen to subscribe, please post some excerpts. I suspect they would be amusing.

    Replies: @MEH 0910

    Cathy Young posted an excerpt:

    https://cathy.arcdigital.media/p/the-reality-of-race-realism-fc7

    • Replies: @res
    @MEH 0910

    Thanks. Her starting off with this did not inspire confidence. Especially given that it is such a short book.


    Here, I should pause to acknowledge that I have only read excerpts from Facing Reality
     
    The excerpt really didn't say much AFAICT, but I guess that is the point of a teaser. In any case, thanks again!

    Replies: @MEH 0910

  162. @MEH 0910
    @res

    Cathy Young posted an excerpt:

    https://cathy.arcdigital.media/p/the-reality-of-race-realism-fc7

    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1422991543938453510

    Replies: @res

    Thanks. Her starting off with this did not inspire confidence. Especially given that it is such a short book.

    Here, I should pause to acknowledge that I have only read excerpts from Facing Reality

    The excerpt really didn’t say much AFAICT, but I guess that is the point of a teaser. In any case, thanks again!

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @res

    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1423323051840659463

    https://cathy.arcdigital.media/p/the-reality-of-race-realism

    Replies: @res, @MEH 0910

  163. @res
    @MEH 0910

    Thanks. Her starting off with this did not inspire confidence. Especially given that it is such a short book.


    Here, I should pause to acknowledge that I have only read excerpts from Facing Reality
     
    The excerpt really didn't say much AFAICT, but I guess that is the point of a teaser. In any case, thanks again!

    Replies: @MEH 0910

    https://cathy.arcdigital.media/p/the-reality-of-race-realism

    • Replies: @res
    @MEH 0910

    Thanks. I was going to say that was better than I expected until I got to the guilt by association part (so much for Steve being the man who must not be named, and she does not care for Emil either). Regarding this:


    If you’re a conservative/rightist and are about to cry “guilt by association” at this point, ask yourself if you’d feel the same about criticizing a progressive who collaborates with communists.
     
    The double standard is interesting. Murray (and others) are criticized for not calling out certain people, while progressives who collaborate(d) with (or were/are) communists (or 60s radical terrorists, etc.) are not only not called out, they are lauded. And receive plum speaking gigs and college teaching opportunities. How about spending a little time complaining about that, Ms. Young?

    And returning to this point:


    - The methods are incapable, at the moment, of providing a clear, definitive answer

    - This makes the question nonscientific
     
    I compared that characterization to global warming above. To her credit, she has a somewhat reasonable article about global warming from 2019 over at https://www.newsday.com/opinion/columnists/cathy-young
    But I don't see her calling the question "nonscientific."

    Do you know more about Cathy Young? At times she seems reasonable, but the degree to which she went after Steve and Emil sounds anything but to me. Does she just see that as something necessary to not have the same thing done to her by the woker yet?

    Replies: @MEH 0910

    , @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1423765769536561155

    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1423765772774608897
    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1423765777799331840
    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1423765780647268354
    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1423765783507779590
    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1423765786850742276

  164. @MEH 0910
    @res

    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1423323051840659463

    https://cathy.arcdigital.media/p/the-reality-of-race-realism

    Replies: @res, @MEH 0910

    Thanks. I was going to say that was better than I expected until I got to the guilt by association part (so much for Steve being the man who must not be named, and she does not care for Emil either). Regarding this:

    If you’re a conservative/rightist and are about to cry “guilt by association” at this point, ask yourself if you’d feel the same about criticizing a progressive who collaborates with communists.

    The double standard is interesting. Murray (and others) are criticized for not calling out certain people, while progressives who collaborate(d) with (or were/are) communists (or 60s radical terrorists, etc.) are not only not called out, they are lauded. And receive plum speaking gigs and college teaching opportunities. How about spending a little time complaining about that, Ms. Young?

    And returning to this point:

    – The methods are incapable, at the moment, of providing a clear, definitive answer

    – This makes the question nonscientific

    I compared that characterization to global warming above. To her credit, she has a somewhat reasonable article about global warming from 2019 over at https://www.newsday.com/opinion/columnists/cathy-young
    But I don’t see her calling the question “nonscientific.”

    Do you know more about Cathy Young? At times she seems reasonable, but the degree to which she went after Steve and Emil sounds anything but to me. Does she just see that as something necessary to not have the same thing done to her by the woker yet?

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @res

    2016:

    https://thefederalist.com/2016/04/14/you-cant-whitewash-the-alt-rights-bigotry/
    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/815382301672669184

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/cathy-young-ann-coulter-is-anti-semitic-but-sabrina-rubin-erdely-couldnt-possibly-be-anti-gentilic/
    https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/730643429001043968


    Libertarian writer Cathy Young, a sort of Ayn Rand Lite,
     
    June, 2021:

    https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/1408993739398287365
    https://twitter.com/gibrtsplox/status/1409018570919583746

    Replies: @MEH 0910

  165. @res
    @MEH 0910

    Thanks. I was going to say that was better than I expected until I got to the guilt by association part (so much for Steve being the man who must not be named, and she does not care for Emil either). Regarding this:


    If you’re a conservative/rightist and are about to cry “guilt by association” at this point, ask yourself if you’d feel the same about criticizing a progressive who collaborates with communists.
     
    The double standard is interesting. Murray (and others) are criticized for not calling out certain people, while progressives who collaborate(d) with (or were/are) communists (or 60s radical terrorists, etc.) are not only not called out, they are lauded. And receive plum speaking gigs and college teaching opportunities. How about spending a little time complaining about that, Ms. Young?

    And returning to this point:


    - The methods are incapable, at the moment, of providing a clear, definitive answer

    - This makes the question nonscientific
     
    I compared that characterization to global warming above. To her credit, she has a somewhat reasonable article about global warming from 2019 over at https://www.newsday.com/opinion/columnists/cathy-young
    But I don't see her calling the question "nonscientific."

    Do you know more about Cathy Young? At times she seems reasonable, but the degree to which she went after Steve and Emil sounds anything but to me. Does she just see that as something necessary to not have the same thing done to her by the woker yet?

    Replies: @MEH 0910

    2016:

    https://thefederalist.com/2016/04/14/you-cant-whitewash-the-alt-rights-bigotry/

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/cathy-young-ann-coulter-is-anti-semitic-but-sabrina-rubin-erdely-couldnt-possibly-be-anti-gentilic/

    Libertarian writer Cathy Young, a sort of Ayn Rand Lite,

    June, 2021:

    • Replies: @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    Present day:

    https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/1423933820844142600

    Replies: @res, @MEH 0910

  166. @MEH 0910
    @res

    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1423323051840659463

    https://cathy.arcdigital.media/p/the-reality-of-race-realism

    Replies: @res, @MEH 0910


    [MORE]

  167. @MEH 0910
    @res

    2016:

    https://thefederalist.com/2016/04/14/you-cant-whitewash-the-alt-rights-bigotry/
    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/815382301672669184

    https://www.unz.com/isteve/cathy-young-ann-coulter-is-anti-semitic-but-sabrina-rubin-erdely-couldnt-possibly-be-anti-gentilic/
    https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/730643429001043968


    Libertarian writer Cathy Young, a sort of Ayn Rand Lite,
     
    June, 2021:

    https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/1408993739398287365
    https://twitter.com/gibrtsplox/status/1409018570919583746

    Replies: @MEH 0910

    Present day:

    • Replies: @res
    @MEH 0910

    Thanks. Good response from Steve. It is helpful to know that is how Cathy attempts to weasel out of actually engaging with the scientific question.

    P.S, Kudos to Steve for remaining reasonable after that hatchet job on him in Cathy's piece.

    , @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1423889258016825346
    https://twitter.com/ZachG932/status/1423893733976727554
    https://twitter.com/ZachG932/status/1423895470313779200

    https://twitter.com/Biorealism/status/1423971951026925571

  168. @res
    @MEH 0910

    I wonder how many things lacking clear definitive answers (say global warming for instance) Cathy Young and Lee Jussim happily consider scientific.

    Though they are right about the Rorschach test aspect of "genetic bases of IQ differences between groups.". It is just that the test is far more fine grained than she and Jussim seem to indicate. In addition to the two poles they probably have in mind there are people who attempt to evaluate the evidence on its merits and draw conclusions about what is likely.

    Replies: @MEH 0910

    Cathy Young retweeted Lee Jussim:

  169. @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    Present day:

    https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/1423933820844142600

    Replies: @res, @MEH 0910

    Thanks. Good response from Steve. It is helpful to know that is how Cathy attempts to weasel out of actually engaging with the scientific question.

    P.S, Kudos to Steve for remaining reasonable after that hatchet job on him in Cathy’s piece.

    • Agree: MEH 0910
  170. @Steve Sailer
    @bigdicknick

    How do you figure out what to try to prove without speculating about it?

    Replies: @res, @Bigdicknick

    I was being sarcastic

  171. @MEH 0910
    @MEH 0910

    Present day:

    https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/1423933820844142600

    Replies: @res, @MEH 0910


    [MORE]


  172. [MORE]

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