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MLK Day Special: Martin Luther King's 1951 GRE Scores: Verbal 350, Quantitative 270
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From Stanford’s Martin Luther King Jr. Research and Education Institute:

Graduate Record Examination Scores for Martin Luther King, Jr.
Author: Educational Testing Service
Date: March 6, 1951
Location: Princeton, N.J.
Genre: Report
Topic: Martin Luther King, Jr. – Education

Details
King took the examination on 3 February. A table enclosed with the test report indicates that his verbal aptitude score is in the second lowest quartile and his quantitative score is in the lowest ten percent of those taking the test. In the advanced test in philosophy, King’s score (on a scale of 100) places him in the lowest third, while his other scores (on a scale of 800) are in the lowest quartile in all the subject areas except literature, where he placed in the top quartile.

Source: CSKC, INP, Coretta Scott King Collection, In Private Hands

Anybody remember how GREs were scored 70 years ago?

 
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  1. A lady from Texas once remarked to me, “I can understand why they wanted someone from their group to be a national icon, but was King they best they could do?”

    • Agree: Colin Wright
    • Replies: @Jake
    @Mike_from_SGV

    King was below average in everything but ability to rattle off speeches that made sense to Liberals and were recognized by Leftists as serving all of their interests. King was an actor, and not a particularly bright actor. Approximately one-third of his dissertation is plagiarized, and most of the plagiarized passages are not paraphrases; they are direct quotes, or very nearly direct quotes, that King presents as his ideas, his assessments.

    King plagiarized like an average intelligence 5th grade white boy.

    King was picked by the Liberal white Elite to be the replacement for Booker T. Washington, who was truly intelligent and whose core was largely conservative. King was picked precisely because he was a vain puppet waiting to be promoted and because he was, even early on, easily blackmailed because he intended to copulate with every female he found attractive, including teenagers.

    Very quickly King's inner circle featured not merely avowed Socialists and well known fellow travelers of Marxists, but well known homosexuals, including a pederast or two (for example, see James Baldwin and Bayard Rustin).

    Replies: @Hans, @JimB, @Truth

    , @Seneca44
    @Mike_from_SGV

    Even today, icons such as St George of Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin, and Eric Garner are hardly shining exemplars of character.

    , @Prester John
    @Mike_from_SGV

    King couldn't shine Jackie Robinson's shoes as a man.

    , @The Alarmist
    @Mike_from_SGV

    They could have gone with Malcom X.

    Here’s what Wikipedia claims was his means of escaping conscription for WW2:


    Summoned by the local draft board for military service in World War II, he feigned mental disturbance by rambling and declaring: "I want to be sent down South. Organize them nigger soldiers ... steal us some guns, and kill us [some] crackers". He was declared "mentally disqualified for military service".
     
    Which is highly creative ... in fact, utterly brilliant. Then again, there was this little detail, which most would assume is evidence of stupidity, though Joe Biden might consider it to be a sign of high intelligence:

    In 1946, he was arrested while picking up a stolen watch he had left at a shop for repairs....
     
    Hey, at least he had enough wit about him to go back and pick it up, unlike Hunter Biden.

    Replies: @krustykurmudgeon, @Sid F

    , @JimDandy
    @Mike_from_SGV

    Low-IQs obviously lead to some truly retarded accusations of racism, but what explains the mainstream media's acceptance of such claims? From a current USA Today article:

    Fabricated claims debunked by fact-checkers targeting victims of police brutality George Floyd, Jacob Blake and Breonna Taylor remain on Facebook, despite pledges by the social media giant to support the Black community, a new investigation from human rights group Avaaz found.
    Insinuating racist stereotypes and tropes, the claims include that Floyd's death under the knee of a white police officer was staged, that Blake raped a 14-year-old and that Taylor was shot in bed while she was asleep (she was awake).


    So... the false narrative that was spread about Taylor being asleep in bed when she was shot was the work of white supremacists? Because black people being shot while they are sleeping at night is a racist trope? Like eating watermelon?

    The writer is Jessica Guynn, a white woman who apparently has a black baby. Wokeness causes brain damage.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2021/01/19/facebook-racist-claims-george-floyd-breonna-taylor-jacob-blake/4184064001/

    Replies: @Brutusale, @Richard B

    , @krustykurmudgeon
    @Mike_from_SGV

    exactly - Thurgood Marshall was in some ways more consequential (and smarter) than MLK ever was.

    , @anon
    @Mike_from_SGV

    MLK was a useful idiot of the Zionist who manipulated him and his followers so called civil rights icons. His handlers were Zionist Jews portrayed in Wikipedia as financial advisers and assisting him in speech writing (especially I have a dream, Stanley Levison from Atlanta). MLK’s trip to India for photo ops in Gandhi’s Ashram was financed by the same group. Same Gandhi who wrote in his newsletter about blacks as dirty, animals, and who trade their cattle for wives. One of Gandhi’s major campaign in South Africa was to install a third door in a local post office for blacks leaving the two original doors for whites and for the Indian. He did win the third door. Ironically, there is life size statue of Gandhi in MLK’s library in Atlanta. Last year the government of Ghana declared Gandhi anti black and removed his statue/s.

    Well orchestrated propaganda about King is in full swing. His picture with Rothchild and wife in a big gala is difficult to find on Google. He preached peace and non-violence but never uttered a word against the Israeli war against her Arab neighbors at the advice of his Jewish handlers. It is essential for white politicians to put “Dr” before his name as a constant reminder. What kind of doctor was he? Most of the blacks don’t know Theology was his subject. Material relating to MLK’s plagiarism is purged of Internet (his thesis). Blacks are not told that MLK family received $800,000 fee from government to let his statue installed in DC.

    No one remembers the name John Brown who died for his beliefs against slavery. There are other black leaders who contributed for black causes then MLK but one hardly finds their names. One black leader that comes to mind is Malcolm X who is portrayed as terrorist. Whatever people think of Malcolm X is their right to think. But he was most articulate black leader in recent days.

  2. 350+270=620. From this table

    (https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/GREIQ.aspx%5D

    GRE=620 –> 80 IQ, which for a black is so-so. But MLK was disadvantaged by the education system then compared to today, so that surely adds 15 points, yielding IQ 95. A bit dull but not noticeably deficient in white society, yet above average among negroes. An IQ slightly above average makes for successful politicians. Plus, he had a dream.

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @James Speaks

    But probably GRE scores have been inflated a lot since 1951.

    Replies: @dearieme

    , @Lot
    @James Speaks

    If you think MLK had an IQ under 100, and was not in the top sixth of US blacks, I do not think you have spent much time around those with IQ<100, or blacks in general.

    No individual with an IQ below 115 is going to get a top quartile score in any subpart of the GRE.

    Replies: @James Speaks, @Mike Tre

    , @Autochthon
    @James Speaks

    Intelligence is overwhelmingly a genetic affair. (I should think readers of Steve Sailer's works would know this fact.) "Disadvantaged by the education system" is a strange way to spell "had stupid parents."

    Replies: @Henry's Cat, @James Speaks

    , @Mike Tre
    @James Speaks

    He had a dream alright: Where da white womenz at?

    , @Ed
    @James Speaks

    King finished school at 16 or so, when he entered Morehouse. It appears he was pushed along as many black kids are today, for being well mannered and moderately brighter than other black kids. It also didn’t hurt that his dad & mother’s dad were Morehouse graduates. To enter Morehouse he also had to pass their entrance exam which he did as a junior in HS

    , @James Braxton
    @James Speaks

    Archibald Carey had a dream. King just had a good publicist.

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @James Speaks


    Plus, he had a dream.
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HMjOiHqE18

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    , @peterike
    @James Speaks


    But MLK was disadvantaged by the education system then compared to today
     
    I can assure you that even for blacks -- indeed, especially for blacks -- the education system then was vastly superior to what is happening now.
    , @Jack D
    @James Speaks

    There is a hint on how scoring must have changed (been made easier) by the comment that King's 470 literature score placed him in the TOP quartile. Today a 470 in literature places you in the BOTTOM quartile. (But a 470 in Chemistry with all that Asian male competition ahead of you puts you in the 3rd percentile.) The 75th percentile is equivalent to a 630 in literature today. So roughly speaking you should add 160 points to MLK's scores to put them in 2020 terms. That translates to 510V, 430Q. 940 translates according to your table to 106 IQ, which would make him slightly above average for a white person but about 20 points above average for an African American. That sounds about right. Still for a person with a 106 IQ to undertake a PhD program is not easy - the pressure (combined with his general lack of personal ethics) must have lead MLK to plagiarism.

    https://www.ets.org/s/gre/pdf/gre_guide.pdf

    See Table 2B (or not 2B?)

    Also note that according to Table 2A, nowadays 63% of the Literature test takers are women but only 23% of those taking the Physics test. M+F don't add up to 100% in this table so there must be 2 or 3% "other".

    Replies: @Lot, @res

    , @Bernie
    @James Speaks

    Muhammed Ali also had a very low IQ (from his Army entrance tests). I see from the comments that many wonder, "Why are such funny, engaging people and stirring orators so low in intelligence? Must be something wrong with IQ tests."

    I look at it the other way. Making stirring speeches - complete with a fake accent, alternating cadences and loud, booming outbursts at the right time - is not really a sign of intelligence. I wont even get into who wrote his speeches. Same with being a funny jokester who can rhyme and engage in amusing banter with interviewers.

    Replies: @Thoth

    , @Jonathan Mason
    @James Speaks

    I agree. I took the GRE exam about 30 years ago, when I was about 40, and I scored a maximum 800 on the verbal section, but then you have to look at the fact that the test is primarily aimed at callow, inarticulate, unread, science-majoring 20-year-olds who are applying to graduate schools.

    At the time that King took the test the test would have been normed against upper middle class whites, and he would have been raised through the segregated educational system, which would probably have been something similar to the educational system in Haiti today, where even the teachers don't know very much.

    At that time there would have been radio but television would have been very much in its infancy, and the Kings probably didn't have a TV in their home. At the time a lot of blacks who were talented on their skills with musical instruments and many great virtuoso musicians like Sonny Rollins and Milt Jackson were roughly contemporaries of King.

    But as others have said, he had a dream.

    And just as a point of interes regarding the IQ of Kings, had he been a member of the British royal family he would have been regarded as exceptionally bright.

  3. Anybody remember how GREs were scored 70 years ago?

    Nope, but my offhand assumption is that they were more difficult.

    However they were scored, these are unimpressive, in terms of where he falls in percentiles.

    But then again, Hitler and Mussolini were probably not great test takers either, and MLK is part of that cohort of, you know, charismatic orators.

    • Troll: Je Suis Omar Mateen
    • Replies: @Anonymouse
    @Charles St. Charles

    I took the GRE in 1958. The test was in 2 parts: verbal and mathematical. AFAIK, a perfect score in each part was 800. I got a perfect score in the verbal part. In the mathematical part, I did fairly well. I don't remember that score number.

    Yes, my parents were jewish. But I didn't kill Him.

    Replies: @Foreign Expert, @Bardon Kaldian, @Cato, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @krustykurmudgeon, @Rich

    , @George
    @Charles St. Charles

    "unimpressive, in terms of where he falls in percentiles." It is possible competition was better in 1951 than today. It is not clear to me how he scored superior in Literature but nothing else. But scoring high in literature should be good enough for liberal arts, like divinity school.

    "Many people have questioned me about the wisdom of my path" - MLK

    MLK: Beyond Vietnam - A Time to Break Silence
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJhgXKGldUk

    , @John Regan
    @Charles St. Charles

    Hitler at least wrote his own speeches though. He didn't need literal New York Communists to do his scripts for him.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Levison

    When people praise the great Doctor King's rhetoric, they are really praising the subversive genius of Stanley Levison. In fact, when one strips away the mythology, King is (ironically enough) pretty close in just about every way to the perfect Ku Klux Klan caricature of a "Civil Rights" leader: a saintly public image promoted by the media, in reality a fraud and sex-fiend, and a willing mouthpiece for pedigreed un-American interests.

    , @Desiderius
    @Charles St. Charles

    Nobody can hold a candle in the field of test bombing to the OG Winnie Churchill.

  4. About what you’d expect.

    Note that everyone and his pet dog weren’t heading off to grad school in 1951. Today, his percentile scores would probably ooze up a bit. So he’s more or less what you get from a casual read. A pretty average intellect (above average verbally) for the overall population, but much smarter than the typical black.

    But whatever you want to say about Saint Martin, pretty sure his immigration policy–his own not his CPUSA handlers–would have been head and shoulders smarter and better than what Biden’s Beverly Hills High genius Jews have in store for us.

  5. I thought the GRE was just a harder SAT with the same 2 sections – Verbal and Math (Quant). I’m pretty sure it’s like that now. Did it include additional subject tests in the past?

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anonymous

    Apparently you could specify your intended grad school course, such as Philosophy, and they'd give you a specialized test scored on a 100 point scale.

    , @Polistra
    @Anonymous

    When I took it in the 1980s it had three scores IIRC. Verbal, Quant, and Analytical. I thank God for this test because while my college record was very good it wasn't stellar enough by itself to get me into a top grad school. The director of my grad program made reference to my scores after I arrived there.

    Something similar had happened to me earlier, with the SAT. My high school record was decent, but I really needed the SAT scores to get into a good college. I wish people would quit knocking them! Oh, what am I saying? That was 20 years ago. They're history now.

    Replies: @International Jew, @fitzhamilton, @Percy Gryce

    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Anonymous

    I took the GRE's twice. Once in 1969 and once in 1970 when I decided to change my graduate field of study from math. When I sat for them there were a Verbal and a Quantitative aptitude test and one optional achievement test in your major or the field you intended to study in graduate school.

    There was an 800 cutoff on the SATs at that time so I was surprised to score 850 on the Verbal Aptitude. I thought there had been a mistake until a friend informed me that tests were supposedly normed with a mean score of 500 and an SD of 100. However, that can't have been entirely correct as tables were provided to convert one's GRE score to one's percentile ranking compared with other test takers. Although getting a much higher score on my math achievement exam than my other achievement exam, I wound up at the 85th percentile on both.

    Back then the ETS also provided tests of language capability that were a convenient way of testing out of grad school language requirements. My grad school required reading proficiency in two languages besides English so this was a big break for me.

    Replies: @gcochran

  6. King must have been having a bad day when he took that test. Not that there aren’t successful political leaders who are below average in g, but King didn’t seem to be one of them.

    • Replies: @Polistra
    @Acilius

    Agree. Not only did he not seem particularly dim, he's one of the century's greatest orators which isn't as easy as it may look to those who haven't tried.

    Replies: @TTSSYF, @anonsasmaug, @europeasant, @Bert, @Jus' Sayin'...

    , @Joe Sweet
    @Acilius


    King must have been having a bad day when he took that test.

     

    Maybe he was up all the night before the test, raging drunk, enjoying an orgy with his homies and bunch of hookers.
  7. Anonymous[369] • Disclaimer says:

    There’s also the plagiarism stuff. In ordinary circumstances his doctorate would have been revoked.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King_Jr._authorship_issues#Dissertation_and_other_academic_papers

    Martin Luther King Jr.’s papers were donated by his wife Coretta Scott King to Stanford University’s King Papers Project. During the late 1980s, as the papers were being organized and catalogued, the staff of the project discovered that King’s doctoral dissertation at Boston University, titled A Comparison of the Conception of God in the Thinking of Paul Tillich and Henry Nelson Wieman, included large sections from a dissertation written by another student (Jack Boozer) three years earlier at Boston University.[1][2]

    As Clayborne Carson, director of the King Papers Project at Stanford University, has written, “instances of textual appropriation can be seen in his earliest extant writings as well as his dissertation. The pattern is also noticeable in his speeches and sermons throughout his career.”[3]

    Boston University, where King received his Ph.D. in systematic theology, conducted an investigation that found he appropriated[3] and plagiarized major portions of his doctoral thesis from various other authors who wrote about the topic.[4][5]

    According to civil rights historian Ralph Luker, who worked on the King Papers Project directing the research on King’s early life, King’s paper The Chief Characteristics and Doctrines of Mahayana Buddhism[6] was taken almost entirely from secondary sources.[7] He writes:

    Moreover, the farther King went in his academic career, the more deeply ingrained the patterns of borrowing language without clear attribution became. Thus, the plagiarism in his dissertation seemed to be, by then, the product of his long established practice.[7]

    The incident was first reported in the December 3, 1989, edition of the Sunday Telegraph by Frank Johnson, titled “Martin Luther King—Was He a Plagiarist?” The incident was then reported in U.S. in the November 9, 1990, edition of the Wall Street Journal, under the title of “To Their Dismay, King Scholars Find a Troubling Pattern”. Several other newspapers then followed with stories, including the Boston Globe and the New York Times. Although Carson believed King had acted unintentionally,[8] he also stated that King had been sufficiently well acquainted with academic principles and procedures to have understood the need for extensive footnotes, and he was at a loss to explain why King had not used them.[8]

    Boston University decided not to revoke his doctorate, saying that although King acted improperly, his dissertation still “makes an intelligent contribution to scholarship.”[4] The committee also dismissed allegations that King plagiarized writings which he used to develop his organization and chapter headings.[4] However, a letter is now attached to King’s dissertation in the university library, noting that numerous passages were included without the appropriate quotations and citations of sources.[1][4][9][non-primary source needed][clarification needed]

    Ralph Luker questioned whether King’s professors at the Crozer Theological Seminary held him to lower standards because he was a Black, citing as evidence the fact that King received lower marks (a C+ average) at the historically black Morehouse College than at Crozer, where he was a minority being graded mostly by white teachers and received an A− average.[7][10] Boston University has denied that King received any special treatment.

    • Thanks: Bubba, Clyde, tyrone, bomag
    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
    @Anonymous

    Wouldn't be MLK Day without somebody reminding us of this.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    , @anonymous
    @Anonymous

    So, as a plagiarist, Dr. King had a lot in common with Mr. Biden. Dr. Biden should be so proud!

    Replies: @Jack Armstrong, @Bill B.

    , @tyrone
    @Anonymous

    He still got the phd. and will be called "doctor " until Gabriel blows his trumpet.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    , @Burnham's Ghost
    @Anonymous

    Seeing a lot of comments on here saying that King was an excellent writer, thus he must have been fairly bright. Many do not know that several if not most of King's speeches were written by Stanley Levinson, member of the Communist Part in the US , who worked for the Soviet Union.

  8. @Anonymous
    I thought the GRE was just a harder SAT with the same 2 sections - Verbal and Math (Quant). I'm pretty sure it's like that now. Did it include additional subject tests in the past?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Polistra, @Jus' Sayin'...

    Apparently you could specify your intended grad school course, such as Philosophy, and they’d give you a specialized test scored on a 100 point scale.

  9. @James Speaks
    350+270=620. From this table

    [https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/GREIQ.aspx]

    GRE=620 --> 80 IQ, which for a black is so-so. But MLK was disadvantaged by the education system then compared to today, so that surely adds 15 points, yielding IQ 95. A bit dull but not noticeably deficient in white society, yet above average among negroes. An IQ slightly above average makes for successful politicians. Plus, he had a dream.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Lot, @Autochthon, @Mike Tre, @Ed, @James Braxton, @Bardon Kaldian, @peterike, @Jack D, @Bernie, @Jonathan Mason

    But probably GRE scores have been inflated a lot since 1951.

    • Thanks: James Speaks
    • Replies: @dearieme
    @Steve Sailer

    I remember your comparison of the IQs of W and John Kerry, as deduced from their results in exams for would-be officers. Is there any way you can do an IQ comparison of Trump and Biden?

    I suppose it's made difficult by their both deciding to avoid the Vietnam War with remarkable excuses.

    It's my bone spurs, it's my asthma. Such thumping crooks.

    Replies: @James Speaks

  10. wasn’t his real name Michael King? how does the transcript show his fake name? unless he had it legally changed.

    sorry, i won’t check wikipedia on this guy.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @prime noticer


    wasn’t his real name Michael King? how does the transcript show his fake name? unless he had it legally changed.
     
    MLK Sr did.

    So what? Under common law, you can change your name simply by usage. No court is necessary. Nor fee.

    This particular point is trivial, and should be dropped. It's like the one about Obama, who clearly has no belief in God, being a Mohammedan. It makes you look bad, not him.

    Did MLK Jr commit rape? Now that is an important question!

    Replies: @Mike Tre

    , @J.Ross
    @prime noticer

    It's actually an interesting story and a kind of appropriation. The dad visited Germany and toured locations significant to Martin Luther. He returned inspired and changed his name to Martin Luther. He persuaded his son (then in his mid-twenties) to do the same (thus "junior").

    , @Hans
    @prime noticer

    His father, a street preacher, went by Daddy King until he rebranded under Martin Luther King. Apparently, he never got around to legally changing Michael's name. I wonder if Michelle has..

    "We read in Michael Hoffman’s Holiday for a Cheater:




    The first public sermon that King ever gave, in 1947 at the Ebenezer Baptist Church, was plagiarized from a homily by Protestant clergyman Harry Emerson Fosdick entitled “Life is What You Make It,” according to the testimony of King’s best friend of that time, Reverend Larry H. Williams. The first book that King wrote, Stride Toward Freedom, was plagiarized from numerous sources, all unattributed, according to documentation recently assembled by sympathetic King scholars Keith D. Miller, Ira G. Zepp, Jr., and David J. Garrow. And no less an authoritative source than the four senior editors of The Papers of Martin Luther King, Jr. (an official publication of the Martin Luther King Center for Nonviolent Social Change, Inc., whose staff includes King’s widow Coretta), stated of King’s writings at both Boston University and Crozer Theological Seminary: “Judged retroactively by the standards of academic scholarship, [his writings] are tragically flawed by numerous instances of plagiarism…. Appropriated passages are particularly evident in his writings in his major field of graduate study, systematic theology.” King’s essay, “The Place of Reason and Experience in Finding God,” written at Crozer, pirated passages from the work of theologian Edgar S. Brightman, author of The Finding of God. Another of King’s theses, “Contemporary Continental Theology,” written shortly after he entered Boston University, was largely stolen from a book by Walter Marshall Horton. King’s doctoral dissertation, “A Comparison of the Conceptions of God in the Thinking of Paul Tillich and Harry Nelson Wieman,” for which he was awarded a PhD in theology, contains more than fifty complete sentences plagiarized from the PhD dissertation of Dr. Jack Boozer, “The Place of Reason in Paul Tillich’s Concept of God.”

    According to The Martin Luther King Papers, in King’s dissertation “only 49 per cent. of sentences in the section on Tillich contain five or more words that were King’s own….”!
     
    "In The Journal of American History, June 1991, page 87, David J. Garrow, a leftist academic who is sympathetic to King, says that King’s wife, Coretta Scott King, who also served as his secretary, was an accomplice in his repeated cheating. Reading Garrow’s article, one is led to the inescapable conclusion that King cheated because he had chosen for himself a political role in which a PhD would be useful"

    http://www.revilo-oliver.com/Kevin-Strom-personal/Beast_as_Saint.html

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    , @Brutusale
    @prime noticer

    Try Infogalactic.

    https://infogalactic.com/info/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.

  11. How is it he landed a Social Studies score so much lower than for Lit? Even in 1951 I’d expect the former to be easier to bluff through.

  12. I remember I had a 101 degree fever which put me in the mood when I took the train up to Northwestern from the University of Chicago to take the Graduate Record Examination in philosophy in 1966. I got a perfect score but it was not 100, but rather 800. So things had changed by then. I thought the idea of a multiple choice test in philosophy was pretty darned funny. Hegel’s philosophy can be best described as a) dialectical materialism; etc., etc.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Thanks: Polemos
    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @SND

    I would imagine the best philosophy prospects could come up with an argument for why each of the four choices on a philosophy multiple choice test is right. Maybe the LSAT should be like that too.

    Replies: @SND, @Desiderius

    , @Mr. Anon
    @SND


    I thought the idea of a multiple choice test in philosophy was pretty darned funny.
     
    Imagine the questions on Marxism:

    Jane comes from a family of land-owning peasants, but has not expressed overtly counter-revolutionary views. Jane should be: a.) Appointed director of a state farm, b.) Sent to work in a factory, c.) Liquidated.

    Replies: @Known Fact

    , @Buffalo Joe
    @SND

    SND, when my daughter applied to a NE university for a Doctorate In Psychology she had to interview with a board who asked her questions. Among the questions was "Who are the top three Psychologists in America?" She was befuddled? I told her she should have pointed to any three interviewers and said..."You and you and you."

    , @Desiderius
    @SND

    The validity of such a test to measure what it purported to measure is being overestimated here by at least an order of magnitude. Growing up at the knee of an ambitious, successful old-time black preacher is akin to an inverse Kaplan class.

  13. Anonymous[270] • Disclaimer says:

    The percentiles are very unimpressive but a much smaller % took GRE then, so I’d expect an average GRE-taker’s IQ to be 120-124. This should make MLK’s IQ ~90. Slightly smarter than an average black. Which is what you’d expect anyway based on his writings, his life and his children’s lack of any visible accomplishments.

    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
    @Anonymous

    None of us have a real solid idea about ALL of MLK's children.

    , @Anonymous
    @Anonymous

    According to this site:
    https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/GREIQ.aspx
    His IQ should be 79-81 based on a 620 depending on the standard deviation used.

  14. @prime noticer
    wasn't his real name Michael King? how does the transcript show his fake name? unless he had it legally changed.

    sorry, i won't check wikipedia on this guy.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @J.Ross, @Hans, @Brutusale

    wasn’t his real name Michael King? how does the transcript show his fake name? unless he had it legally changed.

    MLK Sr did.

    So what? Under common law, you can change your name simply by usage. No court is necessary. Nor fee.

    This particular point is trivial, and should be dropped. It’s like the one about Obama, who clearly has no belief in God, being a Mohammedan. It makes you look bad, not him.

    Did MLK Jr commit rape? Now that is an important question!

    • Agree: Dissident
    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @Reg Cæsar

    If he had changed his name to Fred, it would have been trivia. I think his choice of Martin Luther carried a bit more than trivial significance as it was meant to associate himself with a famous religious rabble rouser, thereby providing himself with unearned credibility and further manipulating his supporters and would be detractors.

    Replies: @Jake

  15. @SND
    I remember I had a 101 degree fever which put me in the mood when I took the train up to Northwestern from the University of Chicago to take the Graduate Record Examination in philosophy in 1966. I got a perfect score but it was not 100, but rather 800. So things had changed by then. I thought the idea of a multiple choice test in philosophy was pretty darned funny. Hegel's philosophy can be best described as a) dialectical materialism; etc., etc.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Mr. Anon, @Buffalo Joe, @Desiderius

    I would imagine the best philosophy prospects could come up with an argument for why each of the four choices on a philosophy multiple choice test is right. Maybe the LSAT should be like that too.

    • Replies: @SND
    @Steve Sailer

    Lawyers are the best at talking out of all four sides of their mouth. By the way, when I was 13 in 1958 my mother took me to a church in the negro section of our rust belt town to hear Mahalia Jackson sing & MLK speak. He never showed so I got to hear Jackson sing all night which was pretty great. In retrospect, King probably got hung up with his special activities in a motel room somewhere. Then when I was 18 I went to hear King's speech at the March on Washington. My biggest impression was not I Had a Dream. It was being ashamed by the bizarre voice of a guy named Bob Dylan when he sang William Zanzinger killed poor Hattie Carroll. As usual the negro singers were really good. I thought "this bodes ill for us white people."

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Jack Armstrong, @AceDeuce, @Stan

    , @Desiderius
    @Steve Sailer

    I failed my first driver’s test twice this way.

    Replies: @James Speaks

  16. MLK’s Pulitzer Prize
    -winning biographer arguably knows more about him than anyone else in the world.

    https://www.davidgarrow.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/DJGStandpoint2019.pdf

    https://spectator.org/the-mlk-story-no-one-wanted-to-read/

    Like his plagiarism, this was all swept under the rug.

  17. I have no idea if the man could do figures, but if the GRE shows MLK was a verbal mediocrity it suggests there was something wrong with the GRE, at least in 1951.

    • Replies: @Alice in Wonderland
    @ValleyBoyPhD


    if the GRE shows MLK was a verbal mediocrity it suggests there was something wrong with the GRE, at least in 1951.
     
    Nah, it just doesn't test his skill, oratory.

    Plenty of people with high verbal on paper cannot do public speaking.

    The high literature score shows he must have been fairly well read on whatever it tested. It really only makes sense to consider scores in the person's area because the GRE math section includes test takers who are seeking graduate study in math and sciences. It would be pretty surprising to see high math from even smart humanities students just due to lack of exposure and practice.

    Finally, the fact that King did do well on at least one section, literature, shows he wasn't truly dim and could learn stuff he was interested in. Had he done poorly on every section, then it would look much worse.

    Replies: @Muggles

    , @Icy Blast
    @ValleyBoyPhD

    Stanley Levinson (I hope I have his name right) was responsible for King's reputation for eloquence.

  18. I’m happy to discuss the good and bad sides of MLK and do find the hagiography surrounding him ridiculous. Unless your mom’s a virgin, none of us are perfect.

    Having said that, Steve, I think you demean yourself by snickering about someone’s low standardized test scores. Didn’t think anyone over 22 did that…

    If I’ve learned anything in life, it’s that there is a positive correlation between success in life and IQ, but its not all that high.

    • Replies: @Polistra
    @NJ Transit Commuter


    If I’ve learned anything in life, it’s that there is a positive correlation between success in life and IQ, but its not all that high.
     
    Yep. Intelligence helps up to a point, but it's no substitute for tenacity, self-discipline, and diplomacy.

    Steve, I think you demean yourself by snickering about someone’s low standardized test scores. Didn’t think anyone over 22 did that…
     
    Agree with this too. Not a good look, on today of all days. I'm sure it'll bring out the unreconstructed bigots among us though.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Anon, @bomag, @George Taylor, @Anonymous

    , @Seth
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    It’s true that political commitment, moral courage, and spiritual strength are not necessarily correlated with high test scores. Moreover King did write well—“Letter from the Birmingham Jail” is not the work of an idiot.

    Whether he was a stooge for the CPUSA is another question.

    Replies: @Alden

    , @Alfa158
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    I’ve heard that frequently and I think that it must be affected by what field you work in and therefore what the minimum level of smarts is in order to be in that field.
    My career was in technology, and everyone I worked with was very intelligent and the more intelligent they were, pretty much the more successful they were. The correlation was practically linear. Perhaps it comes down a break point where above a certain level of intelligence almost everyone is highly disciplined, motivated and focused so raw intelligence correlates pretty closely with success. Something like Olympic running or weightlifting , everyone competing had to be very motivated and driven in order to get to that level so it comes down to the faster or stronger you are, the more you win.

    , @TTSSYF
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    Yes, I think success in life can be calculated as a weighted average of intelligence, motivation, self-discipline, and, depending on the field, leadership/people skills. In The Confidence Course, Walter Anderson uses an analogy to describe three factors that contribute to a person's success or failure in life. The car is your genetics and native intelligence (a gleaming sports car, old jalopy, Toyota Corolla), the road you travel on is the environment you grow up in (rocky, full of potholes vs. a super highway), with the operation of the vehicle and navigation of the road (i.e., the driver) your free will.

    Replies: @Znzn

    , @Dacian Julien Soros
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    Tests are Mr Sailers kto? kogo?

    If there's a person he needs to praise (typically a Jew, always an anti-tax rich guy), he gets all "oooh, look at the end of the bell curve, who knew it could be so edgyyyyyy, so shaaaarp".

    If there's a Trump or a Kushner, he manages to find something else to talk about. Absolutely anything will do. Did you know intelligence is multidimensional?

    Replies: @JosephB

    , @Anonymous
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    If you "find the hagiography surrounding him ridiculous", then surely you'll admit that discussing the standardized test scores of a saint can be informative, even in situations where discussing the scores of, say, a preacher would just be petty.

  19. @SND
    I remember I had a 101 degree fever which put me in the mood when I took the train up to Northwestern from the University of Chicago to take the Graduate Record Examination in philosophy in 1966. I got a perfect score but it was not 100, but rather 800. So things had changed by then. I thought the idea of a multiple choice test in philosophy was pretty darned funny. Hegel's philosophy can be best described as a) dialectical materialism; etc., etc.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Mr. Anon, @Buffalo Joe, @Desiderius

    I thought the idea of a multiple choice test in philosophy was pretty darned funny.

    Imagine the questions on Marxism:

    Jane comes from a family of land-owning peasants, but has not expressed overtly counter-revolutionary views. Jane should be: a.) Appointed director of a state farm, b.) Sent to work in a factory, c.) Liquidated.

    • LOL: Kylie
    • Replies: @Known Fact
    @Mr. Anon

    If Jean-Paul Sartre leaves Pleasantville at 9 AM, traveling at 45 miles per hour ...

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  20. @Steve Sailer
    @SND

    I would imagine the best philosophy prospects could come up with an argument for why each of the four choices on a philosophy multiple choice test is right. Maybe the LSAT should be like that too.

    Replies: @SND, @Desiderius

    Lawyers are the best at talking out of all four sides of their mouth. By the way, when I was 13 in 1958 my mother took me to a church in the negro section of our rust belt town to hear Mahalia Jackson sing & MLK speak. He never showed so I got to hear Jackson sing all night which was pretty great. In retrospect, King probably got hung up with his special activities in a motel room somewhere. Then when I was 18 I went to hear King’s speech at the March on Washington. My biggest impression was not I Had a Dream. It was being ashamed by the bizarre voice of a guy named Bob Dylan when he sang William Zanzinger killed poor Hattie Carroll. As usual the negro singers were really good. I thought “this bodes ill for us white people.”

    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @SND

    I miss the very interesting button here. And oh - thanks SND.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    , @Jack Armstrong
    @SND

    Peter, Paul and Mary sang Dylan’s “Blowing in the Wind” that day as they were in the Billboard top ten with their 45. Show business is a business. Of interest: the program started with a prayer and a ‘straight’ non-jazzy National Anthem and concluded with the Pledge of Allegiance and a prayer. Would republicans even do that now?

    , @AceDeuce
    @SND

    Dylan didn't perform the Hattie Carroll song at the march on DC. In fact, he didn't even write it until just after the day of the march, which was the same day that Zantzinger (that's how it's spelled, BTW) was convicted of manslaughter.

    Replies: @SND

    , @Stan
    @SND

    "Life is like a box of chocolates. You never........... "

  21. @Acilius
    King must have been having a bad day when he took that test. Not that there aren't successful political leaders who are below average in g, but King didn't seem to be one of them.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Joe Sweet

    Agree. Not only did he not seem particularly dim, he’s one of the century’s greatest orators which isn’t as easy as it may look to those who haven’t tried.

    • LOL: 3g4me
    • Replies: @TTSSYF
    @Polistra

    Obama would agree.

    , @anonsasmaug
    @Polistra

    His tone is like Hitler. He was was more of a Hitler for black people, a national socialist. I don't think there was anything great about him. It's a style and a tone, a rhythm that attracts and mesmerizes some preachers have that, blurting out anything and you think it sounds good, resonates deep in your soul yada yada blah blah this is how people are manipulated and propagandized. "I have a dream" shouted out is about all anyone knows of what he said. Wow! What an orator.

    , @europeasant
    @Polistra

    If only people judged us by our actions/character and not our skin color sounds like a pretty good line.
    Okay, now let's get rid of Affirmative Action, set asides and quotas and then we can be judged by our actions.
    Black people in general have a low mental IQ but a high social IQ. This is why they are so good at shucking and jiving.

    , @Bert
    @Polistra

    You obviously have no familiarity with the preaching style of mid-20th century Southern Baptist preachers. Many, black and white, had a style like and equal to King's.

    , @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Polistra

    Besides being a serial committer of sex crimes, King was also a serial plagiarist. Significant portions of his academic work, including his thesis, were plagiarized as were many portions of the better oratory which is usually attributed solely to King. To give the devil his due he was, like BO, both a talented public speaker and also adept at seeing and seizing the main chance. However, I'd attribute the latter talent to ruthless cunning rather than exceptional intelligence.

  22. @NJ Transit Commuter
    I’m happy to discuss the good and bad sides of MLK and do find the hagiography surrounding him ridiculous. Unless your mom’s a virgin, none of us are perfect.

    Having said that, Steve, I think you demean yourself by snickering about someone’s low standardized test scores. Didn’t think anyone over 22 did that...

    If I’ve learned anything in life, it’s that there is a positive correlation between success in life and IQ, but its not all that high.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Seth, @Alfa158, @TTSSYF, @Dacian Julien Soros, @Anonymous

    If I’ve learned anything in life, it’s that there is a positive correlation between success in life and IQ, but its not all that high.

    Yep. Intelligence helps up to a point, but it’s no substitute for tenacity, self-discipline, and diplomacy.

    Steve, I think you demean yourself by snickering about someone’s low standardized test scores. Didn’t think anyone over 22 did that…

    Agree with this too. Not a good look, on today of all days. I’m sure it’ll bring out the unreconstructed bigots among us though.

    • Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican
    @Polistra

    Ho shut the goddamn doe, I mad bizzy plagiarizin’ up in this byatch.

    https://www.google.com/logos/doodles/2019/martin-luther-king-jr-day-2019-5671880349450240-2x.jpg

    , @Anon
    @Polistra


    I’m sure it’ll bring out the unreconstructed bigots among us though.
     
    Your wife's son wants his PlayStation back, and he said you should get off the internet.
    , @bomag
    @Polistra


    Not a good look, on today of all days. I’m sure it’ll bring out the unreconstructed bigots among us though.
     
    Are non-bigots better people? Higher scorers, so to speak.

    This is tit-for-tat: we're hectored on other national holidays about how T. Jefferson started the slave trade; Columbus slaughtered billions of indigenes; G. Washington touched someone inappropriately. Now that trashing national icons is coin of the realm, MLK gets his turn.
    , @George Taylor
    @Polistra


    Yep. Intelligence helps up to a point, but it’s no substitute for tenacity, self-discipline, and diplomacy.
     
    Like intelligence, I believe "ambition" has a strong genetic component as well. I know very smart people, PHD's, medical doctors, engineers etc., determination yes but still missing that next level tenacity of an Elon Musk, Edison, Steve Job's etc. Is that made or born? I think it's always both but the narrative among mainstream conservatives and liberals tends to dismiss the genetic component.
    , @Anonymous
    @Polistra


    Agree with this too. Not a good look, on today of all days. I’m sure it’ll bring out the unreconstructed bigots among us though.
     
    It's not petty snickering about test scores. MLK is promoted not just as a moral paragon, but also as an elite intellectual leader.

    People are supposed to emulate and revere him because he was said to be morally, spiritually, and intellectually superior. Hence why his academic background is stressed, why he's called "Dr." MLK, etc.

    As it turns out, he shouldn't have been awarded his PhD because of extensive plagiarism. And it should have been revoked after the plagiarism was exposed, like anyone else's would have been. Also his speeches which were taken to be signs of his intellectual superiority turn to have been ghostwritten and or plagiarized. And his test scores appear to have been mediocre at best.
  23. @prime noticer
    wasn't his real name Michael King? how does the transcript show his fake name? unless he had it legally changed.

    sorry, i won't check wikipedia on this guy.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @J.Ross, @Hans, @Brutusale

    It’s actually an interesting story and a kind of appropriation. The dad visited Germany and toured locations significant to Martin Luther. He returned inspired and changed his name to Martin Luther. He persuaded his son (then in his mid-twenties) to do the same (thus “junior”).

    • Thanks: Polistra, Dieter Kief
  24. @NJ Transit Commuter
    I’m happy to discuss the good and bad sides of MLK and do find the hagiography surrounding him ridiculous. Unless your mom’s a virgin, none of us are perfect.

    Having said that, Steve, I think you demean yourself by snickering about someone’s low standardized test scores. Didn’t think anyone over 22 did that...

    If I’ve learned anything in life, it’s that there is a positive correlation between success in life and IQ, but its not all that high.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Seth, @Alfa158, @TTSSYF, @Dacian Julien Soros, @Anonymous

    It’s true that political commitment, moral courage, and spiritual strength are not necessarily correlated with high test scores. Moreover King did write well—“Letter from the Birmingham Jail” is not the work of an idiot.

    Whether he was a stooge for the CPUSA is another question.

    • Replies: @Alden
    @Seth

    Your assuming that Michael King, not one of his handlers wrote Letters from a Birmingham jail

    Faye Stender wrote her protege * George Jackson’s prison letters and Huey Newton’s phd dissertation.

    * Marin county courthouse shootout Angela Davis communist Jewish negro lovers.

  25. @Anonymous
    I thought the GRE was just a harder SAT with the same 2 sections - Verbal and Math (Quant). I'm pretty sure it's like that now. Did it include additional subject tests in the past?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Polistra, @Jus' Sayin'...

    When I took it in the 1980s it had three scores IIRC. Verbal, Quant, and Analytical. I thank God for this test because while my college record was very good it wasn’t stellar enough by itself to get me into a top grad school. The director of my grad program made reference to my scores after I arrived there.

    Something similar had happened to me earlier, with the SAT. My high school record was decent, but I really needed the SAT scores to get into a good college. I wish people would quit knocking them! Oh, what am I saying? That was 20 years ago. They’re history now.

    • Agree: Kyle
    • Replies: @International Jew
    @Polistra

    The "analytical reasoning" section was genuinely interesting.

    Replies: @Percy Gryce

    , @fitzhamilton
    @Polistra

    The SAT and GRE were both measures of how much essential mathematics and reading skill you've picked up, which correlates directly to IQ. The only way you'd do well is reading deeply and broadly for a decade, and paying attention and actually acquiring the basic skill sets in Algebra I and geometry.

    The only people who read anything extensively beyond pop fiction are those who possess abstract intelligence. That's why the SAT and GRE - which in the verbal section were vocabulary and reading skill tests - correlated so strongly to IQ.

    High school and to a less degree college grades - grades in general - are about hopping obediently through hoops, regular attendance, doing homework, pleasing the teacher, and good test preparation.. Female skill sets that do not correlate strongly with IQ.

    , @Percy Gryce
    @Polistra

    Same for me. I always tested well, but I killed the GRE in 1989--I'm certain that it was a particularly easy sitting of the test. I remember the rejection letter from the grad program at University of Toronto said something about how my GRE scores showed what I could do when I put my mind to it. The most hilarious rejection letter I've ever received.

    Replies: @Polistra

  26. his verbal aptitude score is in the second lowest quartile

    I have to imagine that the pool of graduate students in 1950 — before the era of mass college attendance — was pretty elite. So being in the bottom of this group may not be that unimpressive.

    King was obviously a very good wordsmith. His speeches and letters are classic and moving. But his gift was in being emotive, not logical. He was also a very good politician and administrator.

    Maybe the lesson from King’s mediocre GREs is that character, focus, and hard work can be more important in most realms than having a high IQ. (And I know King had character issues with women).

    Those are the qualities that blacks frankly need to succeed in light of their actual IQ scores. But instead, they’re told they are natural talents who are held back only by invisible “systemic racism.” The leftists are not doing blacks any favors in the long run with this wokeness philosophy

    • Agree: Polemos, Charon, Polistra
    • Replies: @dearieme
    @Hypnotoad666

    The leftists are not doing blacks any favors in the long run

    Their purpose is to do themselves favours.

  27. @James Speaks
    350+270=620. From this table

    [https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/GREIQ.aspx]

    GRE=620 --> 80 IQ, which for a black is so-so. But MLK was disadvantaged by the education system then compared to today, so that surely adds 15 points, yielding IQ 95. A bit dull but not noticeably deficient in white society, yet above average among negroes. An IQ slightly above average makes for successful politicians. Plus, he had a dream.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Lot, @Autochthon, @Mike Tre, @Ed, @James Braxton, @Bardon Kaldian, @peterike, @Jack D, @Bernie, @Jonathan Mason

    If you think MLK had an IQ under 100, and was not in the top sixth of US blacks, I do not think you have spent much time around those with IQ<100, or blacks in general.

    No individual with an IQ below 115 is going to get a top quartile score in any subpart of the GRE.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @Lot


    If you think MLK had an IQ under 100, and was not in the top sixth of US blacks, I do not think you have spent much time around those with IQ<100, or blacks in general.
     
    I don't think that and I request you take your non sequitors and go away.

    I was fudging his GRE - IQ correlate score a bit higher due to environment and then suggesting an IQ of 95 is leadershiup potential among blacks. BTW, I used to teach blacks so I guess that shoots your "I do not think you ..." theory in the foot, which is in your mouth at moment.
    , @Mike Tre
    @Lot

    I'd like to hear more about all of your time spent with blacks. Is it mostly filing lawsuits for them after they slip and fall in a retail store?

    Or is it watching them on TV?

    Replies: @Marty

  28. @SND
    @Steve Sailer

    Lawyers are the best at talking out of all four sides of their mouth. By the way, when I was 13 in 1958 my mother took me to a church in the negro section of our rust belt town to hear Mahalia Jackson sing & MLK speak. He never showed so I got to hear Jackson sing all night which was pretty great. In retrospect, King probably got hung up with his special activities in a motel room somewhere. Then when I was 18 I went to hear King's speech at the March on Washington. My biggest impression was not I Had a Dream. It was being ashamed by the bizarre voice of a guy named Bob Dylan when he sang William Zanzinger killed poor Hattie Carroll. As usual the negro singers were really good. I thought "this bodes ill for us white people."

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Jack Armstrong, @AceDeuce, @Stan

    I miss the very interesting button here. And oh – thanks SND.

    • Agree: Polemos
    • Replies: @J.Ross
    @Dieter Kief

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wEjbWc4eDM&list=PLYSJjOQbyvz-2gHMxGxByh0fnc2vZMFij&index=1

    Replies: @anon, @Dieter Kief

  29. @Polistra
    @NJ Transit Commuter


    If I’ve learned anything in life, it’s that there is a positive correlation between success in life and IQ, but its not all that high.
     
    Yep. Intelligence helps up to a point, but it's no substitute for tenacity, self-discipline, and diplomacy.

    Steve, I think you demean yourself by snickering about someone’s low standardized test scores. Didn’t think anyone over 22 did that…
     
    Agree with this too. Not a good look, on today of all days. I'm sure it'll bring out the unreconstructed bigots among us though.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Anon, @bomag, @George Taylor, @Anonymous

    Ho shut the goddamn doe, I mad bizzy plagiarizin’ up in this byatch.

    • LOL: Polistra
  30. Negroes are unintelligent. Dog bites man.

  31. @NJ Transit Commuter
    I’m happy to discuss the good and bad sides of MLK and do find the hagiography surrounding him ridiculous. Unless your mom’s a virgin, none of us are perfect.

    Having said that, Steve, I think you demean yourself by snickering about someone’s low standardized test scores. Didn’t think anyone over 22 did that...

    If I’ve learned anything in life, it’s that there is a positive correlation between success in life and IQ, but its not all that high.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Seth, @Alfa158, @TTSSYF, @Dacian Julien Soros, @Anonymous

    I’ve heard that frequently and I think that it must be affected by what field you work in and therefore what the minimum level of smarts is in order to be in that field.
    My career was in technology, and everyone I worked with was very intelligent and the more intelligent they were, pretty much the more successful they were. The correlation was practically linear. Perhaps it comes down a break point where above a certain level of intelligence almost everyone is highly disciplined, motivated and focused so raw intelligence correlates pretty closely with success. Something like Olympic running or weightlifting , everyone competing had to be very motivated and driven in order to get to that level so it comes down to the faster or stronger you are, the more you win.

  32. @James Speaks
    350+270=620. From this table

    [https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/GREIQ.aspx]

    GRE=620 --> 80 IQ, which for a black is so-so. But MLK was disadvantaged by the education system then compared to today, so that surely adds 15 points, yielding IQ 95. A bit dull but not noticeably deficient in white society, yet above average among negroes. An IQ slightly above average makes for successful politicians. Plus, he had a dream.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Lot, @Autochthon, @Mike Tre, @Ed, @James Braxton, @Bardon Kaldian, @peterike, @Jack D, @Bernie, @Jonathan Mason

    Intelligence is overwhelmingly a genetic affair. (I should think readers of Steve Sailer’s works would know this fact.) “Disadvantaged by the education system” is a strange way to spell “had stupid parents.”

    • Agree: 3g4me
    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
    @Autochthon


    Intelligence is overwhelmingly a genetic affair.
     
    Ask Kaspar Hauser. It's the blank slaters who are all the real fundamentalists.

    Replies: @Steven Carr

    , @James Speaks
    @Autochthon

    You have to have some information, and it has to be correct informatiom, to understand the questions. My experience with blacks in the south, rural or not, is an overall shortage of information and most of what they have is false.

    Replies: @HammerJack

  33. @Anonymous
    There's also the plagiarism stuff. In ordinary circumstances his doctorate would have been revoked.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King_Jr._authorship_issues#Dissertation_and_other_academic_papers

    Martin Luther King Jr.'s papers were donated by his wife Coretta Scott King to Stanford University's King Papers Project. During the late 1980s, as the papers were being organized and catalogued, the staff of the project discovered that King's doctoral dissertation at Boston University, titled A Comparison of the Conception of God in the Thinking of Paul Tillich and Henry Nelson Wieman, included large sections from a dissertation written by another student (Jack Boozer) three years earlier at Boston University.[1][2]

    As Clayborne Carson, director of the King Papers Project at Stanford University, has written, "instances of textual appropriation can be seen in his earliest extant writings as well as his dissertation. The pattern is also noticeable in his speeches and sermons throughout his career."[3]

    Boston University, where King received his Ph.D. in systematic theology, conducted an investigation that found he appropriated[3] and plagiarized major portions of his doctoral thesis from various other authors who wrote about the topic.[4][5]

    According to civil rights historian Ralph Luker, who worked on the King Papers Project directing the research on King's early life, King's paper The Chief Characteristics and Doctrines of Mahayana Buddhism[6] was taken almost entirely from secondary sources.[7] He writes:

    Moreover, the farther King went in his academic career, the more deeply ingrained the patterns of borrowing language without clear attribution became. Thus, the plagiarism in his dissertation seemed to be, by then, the product of his long established practice.[7]

    The incident was first reported in the December 3, 1989, edition of the Sunday Telegraph by Frank Johnson, titled "Martin Luther King—Was He a Plagiarist?" The incident was then reported in U.S. in the November 9, 1990, edition of the Wall Street Journal, under the title of "To Their Dismay, King Scholars Find a Troubling Pattern". Several other newspapers then followed with stories, including the Boston Globe and the New York Times. Although Carson believed King had acted unintentionally,[8] he also stated that King had been sufficiently well acquainted with academic principles and procedures to have understood the need for extensive footnotes, and he was at a loss to explain why King had not used them.[8]

    Boston University decided not to revoke his doctorate, saying that although King acted improperly, his dissertation still "makes an intelligent contribution to scholarship."[4] The committee also dismissed allegations that King plagiarized writings which he used to develop his organization and chapter headings.[4] However, a letter is now attached to King's dissertation in the university library, noting that numerous passages were included without the appropriate quotations and citations of sources.[1][4][9][non-primary source needed][clarification needed]

    Ralph Luker questioned whether King's professors at the Crozer Theological Seminary held him to lower standards because he was a Black, citing as evidence the fact that King received lower marks (a C+ average) at the historically black Morehouse College than at Crozer, where he was a minority being graded mostly by white teachers and received an A− average.[7][10] Boston University has denied that King received any special treatment.
     

    Replies: @Henry's Cat, @anonymous, @tyrone, @Burnham's Ghost

    Wouldn’t be MLK Day without somebody reminding us of this.

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @Henry's Cat

    Henry, people bring this up because MLK has not been canonized but deified. Much like michelle o, of the 100 magazine covers, is drop dead gorgeous and her husband is the best POTUS of all time. Their actual acomplishments don't match the platitudes.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

  34. @Autochthon
    @James Speaks

    Intelligence is overwhelmingly a genetic affair. (I should think readers of Steve Sailer's works would know this fact.) "Disadvantaged by the education system" is a strange way to spell "had stupid parents."

    Replies: @Henry's Cat, @James Speaks

    Intelligence is overwhelmingly a genetic affair.

    Ask Kaspar Hauser. It’s the blank slaters who are all the real fundamentalists.

    • Replies: @Steven Carr
    @Henry's Cat

    On the big scale, intelligence is overwhelmingly environmental.

    Like skin colour, it is determined by the environment if you consider long enough stretches of time.

    Replies: @Henry's Cat

  35. @Dieter Kief
    @SND

    I miss the very interesting button here. And oh - thanks SND.

    Replies: @J.Ross

    • Replies: @anon
    @J.Ross

    zsa zsa makes a fetching nah-zi.

    , @Dieter Kief
    @J.Ross

    That's nice, actually. Didn't know that. - But oh - Luther is now nazi too. So - Martin LUTHER King should soon be on the index. shouldn't it?

  36. @Anonymous
    There's also the plagiarism stuff. In ordinary circumstances his doctorate would have been revoked.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King_Jr._authorship_issues#Dissertation_and_other_academic_papers

    Martin Luther King Jr.'s papers were donated by his wife Coretta Scott King to Stanford University's King Papers Project. During the late 1980s, as the papers were being organized and catalogued, the staff of the project discovered that King's doctoral dissertation at Boston University, titled A Comparison of the Conception of God in the Thinking of Paul Tillich and Henry Nelson Wieman, included large sections from a dissertation written by another student (Jack Boozer) three years earlier at Boston University.[1][2]

    As Clayborne Carson, director of the King Papers Project at Stanford University, has written, "instances of textual appropriation can be seen in his earliest extant writings as well as his dissertation. The pattern is also noticeable in his speeches and sermons throughout his career."[3]

    Boston University, where King received his Ph.D. in systematic theology, conducted an investigation that found he appropriated[3] and plagiarized major portions of his doctoral thesis from various other authors who wrote about the topic.[4][5]

    According to civil rights historian Ralph Luker, who worked on the King Papers Project directing the research on King's early life, King's paper The Chief Characteristics and Doctrines of Mahayana Buddhism[6] was taken almost entirely from secondary sources.[7] He writes:

    Moreover, the farther King went in his academic career, the more deeply ingrained the patterns of borrowing language without clear attribution became. Thus, the plagiarism in his dissertation seemed to be, by then, the product of his long established practice.[7]

    The incident was first reported in the December 3, 1989, edition of the Sunday Telegraph by Frank Johnson, titled "Martin Luther King—Was He a Plagiarist?" The incident was then reported in U.S. in the November 9, 1990, edition of the Wall Street Journal, under the title of "To Their Dismay, King Scholars Find a Troubling Pattern". Several other newspapers then followed with stories, including the Boston Globe and the New York Times. Although Carson believed King had acted unintentionally,[8] he also stated that King had been sufficiently well acquainted with academic principles and procedures to have understood the need for extensive footnotes, and he was at a loss to explain why King had not used them.[8]

    Boston University decided not to revoke his doctorate, saying that although King acted improperly, his dissertation still "makes an intelligent contribution to scholarship."[4] The committee also dismissed allegations that King plagiarized writings which he used to develop his organization and chapter headings.[4] However, a letter is now attached to King's dissertation in the university library, noting that numerous passages were included without the appropriate quotations and citations of sources.[1][4][9][non-primary source needed][clarification needed]

    Ralph Luker questioned whether King's professors at the Crozer Theological Seminary held him to lower standards because he was a Black, citing as evidence the fact that King received lower marks (a C+ average) at the historically black Morehouse College than at Crozer, where he was a minority being graded mostly by white teachers and received an A− average.[7][10] Boston University has denied that King received any special treatment.
     

    Replies: @Henry's Cat, @anonymous, @tyrone, @Burnham's Ghost

    So, as a plagiarist, Dr. King had a lot in common with Mr. Biden. Dr. Biden should be so proud!

    • Replies: @Jack Armstrong
    @anonymous

    You’re an idiot. How could Dr. King be a plaguerist? Corona-19 hadn’t even been invited.

    Replies: @Gary in Gramercy, @International Jew

    , @Bill B.
    @anonymous

    At least King plagiarized, AFAIK, sensible comment. Biden plagiarized one of the most flatulent blow-hards in British politics.

  37. Anybody remember how GREs were scored 70 years ago?

    Translation: Can you guys Google this for me?

    https://www.prepscholar.com/gre/blog/old-gre-to-new-gre-score-conversion-charts/

    • Replies: @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    But 1951 was a long time ago when it comes to test scoring.

    Replies: @Anon

    , @Anonymous
    @Anon

    If you read the link you gave, you'll see it refers to a 2011 change. Since the categories differed in 1951 from either pre or after 2011, it seems clear that the test has had more than one change.

    Replies: @Anon

  38. @Anon

    Anybody remember how GREs were scored 70 years ago?
     
    Translation: Can you guys Google this for me?

    https://www.prepscholar.com/gre/blog/old-gre-to-new-gre-score-conversion-charts/

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

    But 1951 was a long time ago when it comes to test scoring.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Steve Sailer


    But 1951 was a long time ago when it comes to test scoring.
     
    That's what was funny about your "Anyone remember ...?" question: "Oh yeah Steve, I'm 95-year-old guy who worked at ETS right out of college, and ...."
  39. @Lot
    @James Speaks

    If you think MLK had an IQ under 100, and was not in the top sixth of US blacks, I do not think you have spent much time around those with IQ<100, or blacks in general.

    No individual with an IQ below 115 is going to get a top quartile score in any subpart of the GRE.

    Replies: @James Speaks, @Mike Tre

    If you think MLK had an IQ under 100, and was not in the top sixth of US blacks, I do not think you have spent much time around those with IQ<100, or blacks in general.

    I don’t think that and I request you take your non sequitors and go away.

    I was fudging his GRE – IQ correlate score a bit higher due to environment and then suggesting an IQ of 95 is leadershiup potential among blacks. BTW, I used to teach blacks so I guess that shoots your “I do not think you …” theory in the foot, which is in your mouth at moment.

  40. As expected – good, sometimes great in oratory. Otherwise, mediocre…

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @Bardon Kaldian

    He scored 470 in literature.

  41. There‘s a clip of MLK unscripted on the Mike Douglas Show from 1967. He may not have been a genius but he comes across as a hell of a lot smarter than Mike Douglas. His pro peace position on the Vietnam war is laughably naive and unsophisticated, but he was still able to make a solid ethical argument about why Communism is bad. I would guess his IQ was in the 120 range. Certainly more eloquent and thoughtful than most of the white politicians we are stuck with today.

    • Agree: Polistra
    • Replies: @danand
    @Peter Akuleyev

    “I would guess his IQ was in the 120 range.”

    Peter, that seems an entirely reasonable guess based off Dr.Kings GRE scores, for his time. King certainly made use of his sufficient intellect and great public demeanor. The real debate is over what he ultimately accomplished.

    “...Mike Douglas Show from 1967...”

    Thanks for the info on the MD show interview:

    https://youtu.be/9SfH2uMayks

    https://youtu.be/_FQIlE-WlM8

    https://youtu.be/tvB5a9_XJ3I


    Interesting tidbit, at least to me; both King and Obama felt they had to give up their White loves to maintain their “blackness”.

    “In his third year at Crozer, King became romantically involved with the White daughter of an immigrant German woman who worked as a cook in the cafeteria. King planned to marry her, but friends advised against it, saying that an interracial marriage would provoke animosity from both blacks and whites. King tearfully told a friend that he could not endure his mother's pain over the marriage and broke the relationship off six months later. He continued to have lingering feelings toward the woman he left; one friend was quoted as saying, "He never recovered."”

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @Ian Smith, @anonsasmaug, @John Up North, @obwandiyag

    , @Jake
    @Peter Akuleyev

    His GRE scores indicate an IQ more likely to be 95, even 90. King was a parrot, and he was a natural actor.

  42. @SND
    @Steve Sailer

    Lawyers are the best at talking out of all four sides of their mouth. By the way, when I was 13 in 1958 my mother took me to a church in the negro section of our rust belt town to hear Mahalia Jackson sing & MLK speak. He never showed so I got to hear Jackson sing all night which was pretty great. In retrospect, King probably got hung up with his special activities in a motel room somewhere. Then when I was 18 I went to hear King's speech at the March on Washington. My biggest impression was not I Had a Dream. It was being ashamed by the bizarre voice of a guy named Bob Dylan when he sang William Zanzinger killed poor Hattie Carroll. As usual the negro singers were really good. I thought "this bodes ill for us white people."

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Jack Armstrong, @AceDeuce, @Stan

    Peter, Paul and Mary sang Dylan’s “Blowing in the Wind” that day as they were in the Billboard top ten with their 45. Show business is a business. Of interest: the program started with a prayer and a ‘straight’ non-jazzy National Anthem and concluded with the Pledge of Allegiance and a prayer. Would republicans even do that now?

    • Agree: RadicalCenter
  43. Off topic:

    NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Sarah Fuller, the first woman to score in a Power Five conference football game, says she’s been invited to attend President-elect Joe Biden’s inauguration on Wednesday.

    “It’s an honor to be invited to participate in one of America’s greatest traditions,” Fuller posted Sunday on social media.

    “This historic inauguration is especially meaningful for American women and girls. The glass ceilings are breaking,” she added, including the Twitter handles for Vice President-elect Kamala Harris — who will become the first woman to hold that office — Biden, and their inaugural committee.

    More proof that I’m most likely living in an iSteve computer simulation. If Althea Bernstein is at the inauguration then I’ll know for sure.

    • Replies: @Seneca44
    @Jack Armstrong

    What an honor for Ms. Fuller to attend the first Hunger Games Inauguration!

    , @Rob McX
    @Jack Armstrong

    You'll really know you're in an iSteve computer simulation if Haven Monahan turns up among the protestors.

  44. Anonymous[422] • Disclaimer says:

    I’m willing to wager the mass of goofy negroes and their quasi-commie white counterparts beating up on the police on NYC’s Brooklyn bridge scored far lower. At this point, with DeBlasio so at odds with supporting the police, why do they even bother to do more than direct the crowds? Wading into this morass while second guessing themselves is an excellent way to get police officers killed.

    • Replies: @donut
    @Anonymous

    Did she say "kacadoodle do" ?

    , @Polistra
    @Anonymous

    https://i.ibb.co/wWfRQtP/Hechinger-Report.jpg


    Mobs of white citizens rioting have been commonplace in the United States for centuries
    A history lesson that Americans need to learn if we hope to end the violence of white mobs

    by Joshua D. Rothman
    January 8, 2021
     

    The Hechinger Report
    Covering Innovation & Inequality in Education

    You’ll find many of our stories in the pages of the nation’s biggest newspapers, magazines and websites and on the air of its most prominent broadcasters. That’s because we provide our work to them for free, to increase awareness about the important stories our journalists are reporting.
     

    Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

  45. @anonymous
    @Anonymous

    So, as a plagiarist, Dr. King had a lot in common with Mr. Biden. Dr. Biden should be so proud!

    Replies: @Jack Armstrong, @Bill B.

    You’re an idiot. How could Dr. King be a plaguerist? Corona-19 hadn’t even been invited.

    • LOL: Johann Ricke
    • Replies: @Gary in Gramercy
    @Jack Armstrong

    That's impressive: the love child of Tiny Duck, Norm Crosby and Dr. Irwin Corey.

    , @International Jew
    @Jack Armstrong

    Plaguerist. Nice.

  46. @Polistra
    @NJ Transit Commuter


    If I’ve learned anything in life, it’s that there is a positive correlation between success in life and IQ, but its not all that high.
     
    Yep. Intelligence helps up to a point, but it's no substitute for tenacity, self-discipline, and diplomacy.

    Steve, I think you demean yourself by snickering about someone’s low standardized test scores. Didn’t think anyone over 22 did that…
     
    Agree with this too. Not a good look, on today of all days. I'm sure it'll bring out the unreconstructed bigots among us though.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Anon, @bomag, @George Taylor, @Anonymous

    I’m sure it’ll bring out the unreconstructed bigots among us though.

    Your wife’s son wants his PlayStation back, and he said you should get off the internet.

    • LOL: RadicalCenter, TWS
  47. @Charles St. Charles

    Anybody remember how GREs were scored 70 years ago?
     
    Nope, but my offhand assumption is that they were more difficult.

    However they were scored, these are unimpressive, in terms of where he falls in percentiles.

    But then again, Hitler and Mussolini were probably not great test takers either, and MLK is part of that cohort of, you know, charismatic orators.

    Replies: @Anonymouse, @George, @John Regan, @Desiderius

    I took the GRE in 1958. The test was in 2 parts: verbal and mathematical. AFAIK, a perfect score in each part was 800. I got a perfect score in the verbal part. In the mathematical part, I did fairly well. I don’t remember that score number.

    Yes, my parents were jewish. But I didn’t kill Him.

    • LOL: Buzz Mohawk
    • Replies: @Foreign Expert
    @Anonymouse


    I got a perfect score in the verbal part. In the mathematical part, I did fairly well.
     
    Me too. I’m not Jewish.
    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @Anonymouse


    Yes, my parents were jewish. But I didn’t kill Him.
     
    Whatever you may have thought, here - Him means Dr. King.
    , @Cato
    @Anonymouse

    In the 1980s an 800 verbal GRE was extremely rare -- the 99th percentile began at 720. On the other hand, an 800 quantitative was common, a 92nd percentile score. This was before the big Chinese student invasion, but there were many Koreans.

    Replies: @Anonymouse

    , @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia
    @Anonymouse

    I am working from foggy memory here but I recall my GRE scores as 710 verbal, 590 Math.

    My GMAT score will be forever etched into my brain -- 600 on the nose, 90th percentile. With my work experience plus truly spectacular verbal skills, plus stellar undergrad transcript, plus other graduate school work, I talked my way into a top 5 B school.

    Today I'd be on the outside looking in.

    Replies: @Percy Gryce

    , @krustykurmudgeon
    @Anonymouse

    so you're almost 85?

    , @Rich
    @Anonymouse

    Well, some would say, have said, that every day you reject his divinity, you drive another nail into his hands

  48. @J.Ross
    @Dieter Kief

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wEjbWc4eDM&list=PLYSJjOQbyvz-2gHMxGxByh0fnc2vZMFij&index=1

    Replies: @anon, @Dieter Kief

    zsa zsa makes a fetching nah-zi.

  49. @Anonymouse
    @Charles St. Charles

    I took the GRE in 1958. The test was in 2 parts: verbal and mathematical. AFAIK, a perfect score in each part was 800. I got a perfect score in the verbal part. In the mathematical part, I did fairly well. I don't remember that score number.

    Yes, my parents were jewish. But I didn't kill Him.

    Replies: @Foreign Expert, @Bardon Kaldian, @Cato, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @krustykurmudgeon, @Rich

    I got a perfect score in the verbal part. In the mathematical part, I did fairly well.

    Me too. I’m not Jewish.

  50. @Anonymous
    There's also the plagiarism stuff. In ordinary circumstances his doctorate would have been revoked.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King_Jr._authorship_issues#Dissertation_and_other_academic_papers

    Martin Luther King Jr.'s papers were donated by his wife Coretta Scott King to Stanford University's King Papers Project. During the late 1980s, as the papers were being organized and catalogued, the staff of the project discovered that King's doctoral dissertation at Boston University, titled A Comparison of the Conception of God in the Thinking of Paul Tillich and Henry Nelson Wieman, included large sections from a dissertation written by another student (Jack Boozer) three years earlier at Boston University.[1][2]

    As Clayborne Carson, director of the King Papers Project at Stanford University, has written, "instances of textual appropriation can be seen in his earliest extant writings as well as his dissertation. The pattern is also noticeable in his speeches and sermons throughout his career."[3]

    Boston University, where King received his Ph.D. in systematic theology, conducted an investigation that found he appropriated[3] and plagiarized major portions of his doctoral thesis from various other authors who wrote about the topic.[4][5]

    According to civil rights historian Ralph Luker, who worked on the King Papers Project directing the research on King's early life, King's paper The Chief Characteristics and Doctrines of Mahayana Buddhism[6] was taken almost entirely from secondary sources.[7] He writes:

    Moreover, the farther King went in his academic career, the more deeply ingrained the patterns of borrowing language without clear attribution became. Thus, the plagiarism in his dissertation seemed to be, by then, the product of his long established practice.[7]

    The incident was first reported in the December 3, 1989, edition of the Sunday Telegraph by Frank Johnson, titled "Martin Luther King—Was He a Plagiarist?" The incident was then reported in U.S. in the November 9, 1990, edition of the Wall Street Journal, under the title of "To Their Dismay, King Scholars Find a Troubling Pattern". Several other newspapers then followed with stories, including the Boston Globe and the New York Times. Although Carson believed King had acted unintentionally,[8] he also stated that King had been sufficiently well acquainted with academic principles and procedures to have understood the need for extensive footnotes, and he was at a loss to explain why King had not used them.[8]

    Boston University decided not to revoke his doctorate, saying that although King acted improperly, his dissertation still "makes an intelligent contribution to scholarship."[4] The committee also dismissed allegations that King plagiarized writings which he used to develop his organization and chapter headings.[4] However, a letter is now attached to King's dissertation in the university library, noting that numerous passages were included without the appropriate quotations and citations of sources.[1][4][9][non-primary source needed][clarification needed]

    Ralph Luker questioned whether King's professors at the Crozer Theological Seminary held him to lower standards because he was a Black, citing as evidence the fact that King received lower marks (a C+ average) at the historically black Morehouse College than at Crozer, where he was a minority being graded mostly by white teachers and received an A− average.[7][10] Boston University has denied that King received any special treatment.
     

    Replies: @Henry's Cat, @anonymous, @tyrone, @Burnham's Ghost

    He still got the phd. and will be called “doctor ” until Gabriel blows his trumpet.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @tyrone

    Kamala would have offered to do that well before the end times.

  51. @Anonymous
    I’m willing to wager the mass of goofy negroes and their quasi-commie white counterparts beating up on the police on NYC’s Brooklyn bridge scored far lower. At this point, with DeBlasio so at odds with supporting the police, why do they even bother to do more than direct the crowds? Wading into this morass while second guessing themselves is an excellent way to get police officers killed.

    https://youtu.be/vi6RpfvZ7fM

    Replies: @donut, @Polistra

    Did she say “kacadoodle do” ?

  52. @Bardon Kaldian
    As expected - good, sometimes great in oratory. Otherwise, mediocre...

    Replies: @James Speaks

    He scored 470 in literature.

  53. @Peter Akuleyev
    There‘s a clip of MLK unscripted on the Mike Douglas Show from 1967. He may not have been a genius but he comes across as a hell of a lot smarter than Mike Douglas. His pro peace position on the Vietnam war is laughably naive and unsophisticated, but he was still able to make a solid ethical argument about why Communism is bad. I would guess his IQ was in the 120 range. Certainly more eloquent and thoughtful than most of the white politicians we are stuck with today.

    Replies: @danand, @Jake

    “I would guess his IQ was in the 120 range.”

    Peter, that seems an entirely reasonable guess based off Dr.Kings GRE scores, for his time. King certainly made use of his sufficient intellect and great public demeanor. The real debate is over what he ultimately accomplished.

    “…Mike Douglas Show from 1967…”

    Thanks for the info on the MD show interview:

    Interesting tidbit, at least to me; both King and Obama felt they had to give up their White loves to maintain their “blackness”.

    “In his third year at Crozer, King became romantically involved with the White daughter of an immigrant German woman who worked as a cook in the cafeteria. King planned to marry her, but friends advised against it, saying that an interracial marriage would provoke animosity from both blacks and whites. King tearfully told a friend that he could not endure his mother’s pain over the marriage and broke the relationship off six months later. He continued to have lingering feelings toward the woman he left; one friend was quoted as saying, “He never recovered.””

    • Thanks: utu
    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @danand

    I’ll bet she and her family did, though. Gott Sei Dank.

    , @Ian Smith
    @danand

    I’ve not seen any evidence that Obama dated any black women before Michelle. And I’m sure she’s aware of his fondness for Becky B*tches.

    https://www.firstpost.com/world/photos-barack-obama-with-denmarks-pm-helle-thorning-schmidt-1280805.html

    Replies: @Muggles

    , @anonsasmaug
    @danand

    What a special story. A German, white woman. Oh, Guess who almost came to dinner? What a shock it must be for the racist Nazi white people to hear such a tale. Must have dug at them down deep in their hillbilly cracka-ass souls. Wasn't he a great plagiarizer, which is just a nice way of saying liar?
    It almost reads like a made for tv story directed by Jussie Smollet.

    , @John Up North
    @danand

    During the post war American occupation of West Germany it was not uncommon for black soldiers to marry German women. The army would relocate these couples to California where things, even at that time, were more liberal.

    , @obwandiyag
    @danand

    Martin Luther King, unlike myriads of so-called revolutionaries, actually accomplished something. He got legislation passed that changed society. In visible ways.

    This, by the way, is what is wrong with modern agitation movements. They don't have concrete, achievable legislative goals--legislation being the only thing worth actually agitating for. All the rest is a lot of rhetoric and hot air.

    A story for you. A man from Philly, sick of the hypocrisies of his asshole-filled home country, went to the USSR in the 40s and stayed there until the 70s, when he returned.

    When he came back he was utterly amazed to see blacks walking all around the city, everywhere, even Wanamaker's. When he left, he said, you would see nary a one.

    That is what changed. Blacks walking around anywhere they wanted. Not the world. But certainly more fair. And all because of Martin Luther King putting non-violent pressure on the US government.

    Can't wait to hear the pea-brained, "high-IQ" responses. Let the imbecilities begin!

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @John Johnson

  54. @Autochthon
    @James Speaks

    Intelligence is overwhelmingly a genetic affair. (I should think readers of Steve Sailer's works would know this fact.) "Disadvantaged by the education system" is a strange way to spell "had stupid parents."

    Replies: @Henry's Cat, @James Speaks

    You have to have some information, and it has to be correct informatiom, to understand the questions. My experience with blacks in the south, rural or not, is an overall shortage of information and most of what they have is false.

    • Replies: @HammerJack
    @James Speaks

    an overall shortage of information and most of what they have is false.
     

    We've improved upon that so much with the rise of social media. Now people have access to a virtual plethora of information and nearly all of it is false.

    Replies: @James Speaks

  55. @Polistra
    @Anonymous

    When I took it in the 1980s it had three scores IIRC. Verbal, Quant, and Analytical. I thank God for this test because while my college record was very good it wasn't stellar enough by itself to get me into a top grad school. The director of my grad program made reference to my scores after I arrived there.

    Something similar had happened to me earlier, with the SAT. My high school record was decent, but I really needed the SAT scores to get into a good college. I wish people would quit knocking them! Oh, what am I saying? That was 20 years ago. They're history now.

    Replies: @International Jew, @fitzhamilton, @Percy Gryce

    The “analytical reasoning” section was genuinely interesting.

    • Agree: HammerJack, Polistra
    • Replies: @Percy Gryce
    @International Jew

    Indeed, I describe it to people as logic puzzles. They were hard, but if you did enough of them you could start to sense the answer just by the "shape" of the puzzles.

  56. OK, so when do we get to know Barack’s score?

    • Replies: @europeasant
    @Pericles

    "OK, so when do we get to know Barack’s score?"

    In about 70 years from now.

  57. @Anonymouse
    @Charles St. Charles

    I took the GRE in 1958. The test was in 2 parts: verbal and mathematical. AFAIK, a perfect score in each part was 800. I got a perfect score in the verbal part. In the mathematical part, I did fairly well. I don't remember that score number.

    Yes, my parents were jewish. But I didn't kill Him.

    Replies: @Foreign Expert, @Bardon Kaldian, @Cato, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @krustykurmudgeon, @Rich

    Yes, my parents were jewish. But I didn’t kill Him.

    Whatever you may have thought, here – Him means Dr. King.

  58. @James Speaks
    350+270=620. From this table

    [https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/GREIQ.aspx]

    GRE=620 --> 80 IQ, which for a black is so-so. But MLK was disadvantaged by the education system then compared to today, so that surely adds 15 points, yielding IQ 95. A bit dull but not noticeably deficient in white society, yet above average among negroes. An IQ slightly above average makes for successful politicians. Plus, he had a dream.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Lot, @Autochthon, @Mike Tre, @Ed, @James Braxton, @Bardon Kaldian, @peterike, @Jack D, @Bernie, @Jonathan Mason

    He had a dream alright: Where da white womenz at?

    • Agree: 3g4me
  59. @Reg Cæsar
    @prime noticer


    wasn’t his real name Michael King? how does the transcript show his fake name? unless he had it legally changed.
     
    MLK Sr did.

    So what? Under common law, you can change your name simply by usage. No court is necessary. Nor fee.

    This particular point is trivial, and should be dropped. It's like the one about Obama, who clearly has no belief in God, being a Mohammedan. It makes you look bad, not him.

    Did MLK Jr commit rape? Now that is an important question!

    Replies: @Mike Tre

    If he had changed his name to Fred, it would have been trivia. I think his choice of Martin Luther carried a bit more than trivial significance as it was meant to associate himself with a famous religious rabble rouser, thereby providing himself with unearned credibility and further manipulating his supporters and would be detractors.

    • Replies: @Jake
    @Mike Tre

    Correct. and it was specific. He and his posse picked Martin Luther, not Menno Simons, not Huldrych Zwingli, most certainly not Thomas More. They knew what the fruits of Luther were; they the body counts of The Peasants War and the 30 Years War. They knew that before Reformation settled down in the Germanies that most of the wealth that had existed at the dawn of the 15th century had changed hands forcibly, by way of revolution. Martin Luther inspired waves of revolution that slaughtered huge numbers of people and redistributed most wealth in Germanic lands.

    They could have picked Henry VIII for a similar reason, but it would not have worked nearly as well.

    Replies: @dearieme, @SFG, @Hibernian

  60. @NJ Transit Commuter
    I’m happy to discuss the good and bad sides of MLK and do find the hagiography surrounding him ridiculous. Unless your mom’s a virgin, none of us are perfect.

    Having said that, Steve, I think you demean yourself by snickering about someone’s low standardized test scores. Didn’t think anyone over 22 did that...

    If I’ve learned anything in life, it’s that there is a positive correlation between success in life and IQ, but its not all that high.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Seth, @Alfa158, @TTSSYF, @Dacian Julien Soros, @Anonymous

    Yes, I think success in life can be calculated as a weighted average of intelligence, motivation, self-discipline, and, depending on the field, leadership/people skills. In The Confidence Course, Walter Anderson uses an analogy to describe three factors that contribute to a person’s success or failure in life. The car is your genetics and native intelligence (a gleaming sports car, old jalopy, Toyota Corolla), the road you travel on is the environment you grow up in (rocky, full of potholes vs. a super highway), with the operation of the vehicle and navigation of the road (i.e., the driver) your free will.

    • Agree: HammerJack
    • Replies: @Znzn
    @TTSSYF

    You know that character attributes are also inherited right?

    Replies: @TTSSYF

  61. @Anonymous
    I’m willing to wager the mass of goofy negroes and their quasi-commie white counterparts beating up on the police on NYC’s Brooklyn bridge scored far lower. At this point, with DeBlasio so at odds with supporting the police, why do they even bother to do more than direct the crowds? Wading into this morass while second guessing themselves is an excellent way to get police officers killed.

    https://youtu.be/vi6RpfvZ7fM

    Replies: @donut, @Polistra

    Mobs of white citizens rioting have been commonplace in the United States for centuries
    A history lesson that Americans need to learn if we hope to end the violence of white mobs

    by Joshua D. Rothman
    January 8, 2021

    The Hechinger Report
    Covering Innovation & Inequality in Education

    You’ll find many of our stories in the pages of the nation’s biggest newspapers, magazines and websites and on the air of its most prominent broadcasters. That’s because we provide our work to them for free, to increase awareness about the important stories our journalists are reporting.

    • Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel
    @Polistra

    I doubt that (((Joshua Rothman))) considers himself White.

  62. @Polistra
    @Acilius

    Agree. Not only did he not seem particularly dim, he's one of the century's greatest orators which isn't as easy as it may look to those who haven't tried.

    Replies: @TTSSYF, @anonsasmaug, @europeasant, @Bert, @Jus' Sayin'...

    Obama would agree.

  63. @James Speaks
    350+270=620. From this table

    [https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/GREIQ.aspx]

    GRE=620 --> 80 IQ, which for a black is so-so. But MLK was disadvantaged by the education system then compared to today, so that surely adds 15 points, yielding IQ 95. A bit dull but not noticeably deficient in white society, yet above average among negroes. An IQ slightly above average makes for successful politicians. Plus, he had a dream.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Lot, @Autochthon, @Mike Tre, @Ed, @James Braxton, @Bardon Kaldian, @peterike, @Jack D, @Bernie, @Jonathan Mason

    King finished school at 16 or so, when he entered Morehouse. It appears he was pushed along as many black kids are today, for being well mannered and moderately brighter than other black kids. It also didn’t hurt that his dad & mother’s dad were Morehouse graduates. To enter Morehouse he also had to pass their entrance exam which he did as a junior in HS

  64. @Lot
    @James Speaks

    If you think MLK had an IQ under 100, and was not in the top sixth of US blacks, I do not think you have spent much time around those with IQ<100, or blacks in general.

    No individual with an IQ below 115 is going to get a top quartile score in any subpart of the GRE.

    Replies: @James Speaks, @Mike Tre

    I’d like to hear more about all of your time spent with blacks. Is it mostly filing lawsuits for them after they slip and fall in a retail store?

    Or is it watching them on TV?

    • Replies: @Marty
    @Mike Tre

    An aspiring black plaintiff once came into my office. He’d been fired from a $14/hr. job as a forklift driver in a large glass bottling plant. I asked him why he was fired, and he said, “they don’t like black people there.” Since it was a union job, he couldn’t sue in court, but I was intrigued so I called his union rep. The rep told me the guy had been warned twice not to smoke dope on his lunch hour. He got caught a third time, and the union didn’t feel it should risk its credibility in the grievance process for this guy. When he came in the next time, I asked him about the lunch hour dope smoking, and he said, “they let the white guys do it.”

    Replies: @Gary in Gramercy, @Nicholas Stix, @Nicholas Stix, @additionalMike

  65. @anonymous
    @Anonymous

    So, as a plagiarist, Dr. King had a lot in common with Mr. Biden. Dr. Biden should be so proud!

    Replies: @Jack Armstrong, @Bill B.

    At least King plagiarized, AFAIK, sensible comment. Biden plagiarized one of the most flatulent blow-hards in British politics.

    • LOL: bomag
  66. @James Speaks
    350+270=620. From this table

    [https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/GREIQ.aspx]

    GRE=620 --> 80 IQ, which for a black is so-so. But MLK was disadvantaged by the education system then compared to today, so that surely adds 15 points, yielding IQ 95. A bit dull but not noticeably deficient in white society, yet above average among negroes. An IQ slightly above average makes for successful politicians. Plus, he had a dream.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Lot, @Autochthon, @Mike Tre, @Ed, @James Braxton, @Bardon Kaldian, @peterike, @Jack D, @Bernie, @Jonathan Mason

    Archibald Carey had a dream. King just had a good publicist.

  67. @SND
    @Steve Sailer

    Lawyers are the best at talking out of all four sides of their mouth. By the way, when I was 13 in 1958 my mother took me to a church in the negro section of our rust belt town to hear Mahalia Jackson sing & MLK speak. He never showed so I got to hear Jackson sing all night which was pretty great. In retrospect, King probably got hung up with his special activities in a motel room somewhere. Then when I was 18 I went to hear King's speech at the March on Washington. My biggest impression was not I Had a Dream. It was being ashamed by the bizarre voice of a guy named Bob Dylan when he sang William Zanzinger killed poor Hattie Carroll. As usual the negro singers were really good. I thought "this bodes ill for us white people."

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Jack Armstrong, @AceDeuce, @Stan

    Dylan didn’t perform the Hattie Carroll song at the march on DC. In fact, he didn’t even write it until just after the day of the march, which was the same day that Zantzinger (that’s how it’s spelled, BTW) was convicted of manslaughter.

    • Replies: @SND
    @AceDeuce

    You're right, AceDeuce. My memory failed me. It was actually Only a Pawn in Their Game that impressed me so.

  68. Back in the 1980’s I became a big fan of Televangelist Jimmy Swaggart who, like King, was a preacher. Swaggart was big on alliteration and used that preacher’s cadence style of speaking too. Thus he could strut about the stage and denounce the Khomeini’s, the Khaddafy’s and the Castro’s with great effect.
    It was mesmerizing and I once thought he might become President of the United States. He could also sing and play piano ( his cousin was Jerry Lee Lewis). Unfortunately for Swaggart he was actually caught, unlike MLK, in a motel room with a prostitute so even if he only spent $15 of his congregations money on his sin it destroyed him.

    Don’t know how what Swaggart’s IQ was but you didn’t listen to him for the finer points on Christian theology it was his oratory and showmanship that put him on top of the evangelical ratings. My guess is Jerry Falwell was his intellectual superior as he created a substantial university from nothing and built a national organization The Moral Majority to advance his ideas.

    So it was with MLK. High yellow Andrew Young was likely much smarter than King but he didn’t have the oratorical skills and charisma of King so he ran the Southern Christian Leadership Conference for King and probably wrote a few of Kings more celebrated speeches and letters.

    • Replies: @Barnard
    @unit472

    Swaggart is still preaching in his 80s with his son and now his grandson. The Pentecostal movement puts more emphasis on the show than on the particulars of theology.

    , @ChrisZ
    @unit472

    Oratorical skill is one of the most over-rated abilities. Because it's verbal, as an ability it seems to indicate intelligence in the speaker; but in fact it might be more like the ability to sing passionately: no mean feat, but not, on its own, evidence of general smarts, nor a recommendation for investing the singer with leadership responsibility.

    The ability to sway the mass of people through speech is a great asset to a leader, and many great leaders of history have had it. For the great ones, it's just one talent in the stack. But it's a *visible* talent, and most people neither see nor appreciate the many invisible skills involved in high-level leadership; so they mistakenly conflate passionate oration with the speaker's ability to lead. I too remember Swaggart (what a great name for preacher!), as well as fellow "great orators" of the day like Mario Cuomo and Jesse Jackson. All off them were noted for their potential Presidential timber--but in retrospect, can you imagine any of them in that role?

    That's the trouble with oratorical skill: it's so effective at fooling the watcher (which is distinct from the listener) into thinking she's witnessing something deep, when it's really something shallow. Another trouble is that it fools the *speaker himself* into thinking he's more than he is. Our current political culture is full of this type.

    Interesting comment, Unit. Thanks.

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

  69. @Mike_from_SGV
    A lady from Texas once remarked to me, "I can understand why they wanted someone from their group to be a national icon, but was King they best they could do?"

    Replies: @Jake, @Seneca44, @Prester John, @The Alarmist, @JimDandy, @krustykurmudgeon, @anon

    King was below average in everything but ability to rattle off speeches that made sense to Liberals and were recognized by Leftists as serving all of their interests. King was an actor, and not a particularly bright actor. Approximately one-third of his dissertation is plagiarized, and most of the plagiarized passages are not paraphrases; they are direct quotes, or very nearly direct quotes, that King presents as his ideas, his assessments.

    King plagiarized like an average intelligence 5th grade white boy.

    King was picked by the Liberal white Elite to be the replacement for Booker T. Washington, who was truly intelligent and whose core was largely conservative. King was picked precisely because he was a vain puppet waiting to be promoted and because he was, even early on, easily blackmailed because he intended to copulate with every female he found attractive, including teenagers.

    Very quickly King’s inner circle featured not merely avowed Socialists and well known fellow travelers of Marxists, but well known homosexuals, including a pederast or two (for example, see James Baldwin and Bayard Rustin).

    • Replies: @Hans
    @Jake

    The Beast As Saint: The Truth About "Martin Luther King" has the details:


    The Federal Bureau of Investigation had for many years been aware of Stanley Levison's Communist activities. It was Levison's close association with King that brought about the initial FBI interest in King.

    Lest you be tempted to believe the controlled media's lie about "racists" in the FBI being out to "get" King, you should be aware that the man most responsible for the FBI's probe of King was Assistant Director William C. Sullivan. Sullivan describes himself as a liberal, and says that initially "I was one hundred per cent. for King...because I saw him as an effective and badly needed leader for the Black people in their desire for civil rights." The probe of King not only confirmed their suspicions about King's Communist beliefs and associations, but it also revealed King to be a despicable hypocrite, an immoral degenerate, and a worthless charlatan.

    According to Assistant Director Sullivan, who had direct access to the surveillance files on King which are denied the American people, King had embezzled or misapplied substantial amounts of money contributed to the "civil rights" movement. King used SCLC funds to pay for liquor, and numerous prostitutes both Black and White, who were brought to his hotel rooms, often two at a time, for drunken sex parties which sometimes lasted for several days. These types of activities were the norm for King's speaking and organizing tours.

    In fact, an outfit called the "National Civil Rights Museum" in Memphis, Tennessee, which is putting on display the two bedrooms from the Lorraine Motel where King stayed the night before he was shot, has declined to depict in any way the occupants of those rooms. That—according to exhibit designer Gerard Eisterhold—would be "close to blasphemy." The reason? "Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr." spent his last night on Earth having sexual intercourse with two women at the motel and physically beating and abusing a third.

    Sullivan also stated that King had alienated the affections of numerous married women. According to Sullivan, who in 30 years with the Bureau had seen everything there was to be seen of the seamy side of life, King was one of only seven people he had ever encountered who was such a total degenerate.

    Noting the violence that almost invariably attended King's supposedly "non-violent" marches, Sullivan's probe revealed a very different King from the carefully crafted public image. King welcomed members of many different Black groups as members of his SCLC, many of them advocates and practitioners of violence. King's only admonition on the subject was that they should embrace "tactical nonviolence."
     
    http://www.revilo-oliver.com/Kevin-Strom-personal/Beast_as_Saint.html
    , @JimB
    @Jake


    King plagiarized like an average intelligence 5th grade white boy.
     
    An average intelligence 5th grade white boy wouldn’t plagiarize.
    , @Truth
    @Jake

    Yeah, but you're a world renown genius, and which one of you has a federal holiday, again?

  70. @James Speaks
    350+270=620. From this table

    [https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/GREIQ.aspx]

    GRE=620 --> 80 IQ, which for a black is so-so. But MLK was disadvantaged by the education system then compared to today, so that surely adds 15 points, yielding IQ 95. A bit dull but not noticeably deficient in white society, yet above average among negroes. An IQ slightly above average makes for successful politicians. Plus, he had a dream.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Lot, @Autochthon, @Mike Tre, @Ed, @James Braxton, @Bardon Kaldian, @peterike, @Jack D, @Bernie, @Jonathan Mason

    Plus, he had a dream.

    • Replies: @RadicalCenter
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I had many a dream about the ladies in ABBA.

    Replies: @Truth

  71. @Mike Tre
    @Reg Cæsar

    If he had changed his name to Fred, it would have been trivia. I think his choice of Martin Luther carried a bit more than trivial significance as it was meant to associate himself with a famous religious rabble rouser, thereby providing himself with unearned credibility and further manipulating his supporters and would be detractors.

    Replies: @Jake

    Correct. and it was specific. He and his posse picked Martin Luther, not Menno Simons, not Huldrych Zwingli, most certainly not Thomas More. They knew what the fruits of Luther were; they the body counts of The Peasants War and the 30 Years War. They knew that before Reformation settled down in the Germanies that most of the wealth that had existed at the dawn of the 15th century had changed hands forcibly, by way of revolution. Martin Luther inspired waves of revolution that slaughtered huge numbers of people and redistributed most wealth in Germanic lands.

    They could have picked Henry VIII for a similar reason, but it would not have worked nearly as well.

    • Replies: @dearieme
    @Jake

    it would not have worked nearly as well.

    Yeah, Henry Tudor King VIII sounds childish.

    , @SFG
    @Jake

    You want your kid to go around called 'Menno' or 'Huldrych'? In 1930s America?

    He probably thought 'famous Christian' and admired his standing against the authority of the day. Whether you're Catholic or Protestant, among religious rebels, Martin Luther must be considered one of the foremost, perhaps topped only by that Jewish kid from Nazareth.

    Replies: @anonsasmaug, @BB753

    , @Hibernian
    @Jake

    Luther's theology served as a pretext for the seizure of Church land by German Princes. Henry VIII seized the land himself, based on Protestant theology that had come to England's shores and had begun to influence Anglicanism, which it did very early on.

  72. @ValleyBoyPhD
    I have no idea if the man could do figures, but if the GRE shows MLK was a verbal mediocrity it suggests there was something wrong with the GRE, at least in 1951.

    Replies: @Alice in Wonderland, @Icy Blast

    if the GRE shows MLK was a verbal mediocrity it suggests there was something wrong with the GRE, at least in 1951.

    Nah, it just doesn’t test his skill, oratory.

    Plenty of people with high verbal on paper cannot do public speaking.

    The high literature score shows he must have been fairly well read on whatever it tested. It really only makes sense to consider scores in the person’s area because the GRE math section includes test takers who are seeking graduate study in math and sciences. It would be pretty surprising to see high math from even smart humanities students just due to lack of exposure and practice.

    Finally, the fact that King did do well on at least one section, literature, shows he wasn’t truly dim and could learn stuff he was interested in. Had he done poorly on every section, then it would look much worse.

    • Agree: Prester John
    • Replies: @Muggles
    @Alice in Wonderland

    Many do not know the term 'homiletics' which refers to the art of preaching and writing sermons.

    I think nearly all or all divinity schools teach this to one degree or another. Some of the airy-fairy ones may not emphasize it if they are all about abstract theology/writings but for a professional preacher this skill is essential.

    Basically it is Public Speaking but with a religious teaching/inspiration objective. Some preachers excel at this and King was among the best, though he had a lot of experience also.

    I've noticed that many higher IQ blacks, more talented and perhaps energetic, end up as ministers and preachers rather than STEM professions or harder professional disciplines. They can make good money at it, there are many openings since blacks go to church more often than others, and can get decently paid. There are perks. (Funeral directors are another common career path.)

    For whites not familiar with ministers/preachers who can actually hold an audience, like a good comedian or entertainer, King's performances were novel and remarkable. Not so for others.

    This does take talent and a performer's personality traits. Of course being a skill, you can glibly preach nonsense and many will swoon. Adolph H was quite a speaker (rather angry by modern tastes) but could sway an audience.

    To be good at public speaking you must learn and practice, have natural skill also. Being smarter than most of your audience is also very helpful. Personality projection, etc.

  73. @Peter Akuleyev
    There‘s a clip of MLK unscripted on the Mike Douglas Show from 1967. He may not have been a genius but he comes across as a hell of a lot smarter than Mike Douglas. His pro peace position on the Vietnam war is laughably naive and unsophisticated, but he was still able to make a solid ethical argument about why Communism is bad. I would guess his IQ was in the 120 range. Certainly more eloquent and thoughtful than most of the white politicians we are stuck with today.

    Replies: @danand, @Jake

    His GRE scores indicate an IQ more likely to be 95, even 90. King was a parrot, and he was a natural actor.

  74. @James Speaks
    @Autochthon

    You have to have some information, and it has to be correct informatiom, to understand the questions. My experience with blacks in the south, rural or not, is an overall shortage of information and most of what they have is false.

    Replies: @HammerJack

    an overall shortage of information and most of what they have is false.

    We’ve improved upon that so much with the rise of social media. Now people have access to a virtual plethora of information and nearly all of it is false.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @HammerJack


    Now people have access to a virtual plethora of information and nearly all of it is false.
     
    Yea, verily. The young woke (yokes?) are like blinded little sheep ... armed with AR-15s.
  75. @Mike_from_SGV
    A lady from Texas once remarked to me, "I can understand why they wanted someone from their group to be a national icon, but was King they best they could do?"

    Replies: @Jake, @Seneca44, @Prester John, @The Alarmist, @JimDandy, @krustykurmudgeon, @anon

    Even today, icons such as St George of Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin, and Eric Garner are hardly shining exemplars of character.

  76. Does Trump possess the oratorical brilliance that MLK exhibited?

    How about the ability to put together subject, predicate, and object without stumbling and bumbling? Is Trump even in the same universe as was King?

    • LOL: Hans
    • Replies: @Icy Blast
    @Liberty Mike

    Obviously Trump would have benefitted from having his own Stanley Levison, but he's too narcissistic to admit he needs an English tutor.

    , @northeast
    @Liberty Mike

    If you watch any Trump interview on Youtube from the 70s & 80s you can see that he was articulate, sharp, and intelligent. The Trump we have experienced since his election in 2016 is in obvious cognitive decline. Trump's decline is slightly worse than average for an individual in his age group IMO.

    Trump's father suffered from Alzheimer's disease, and sadly I see the same fate awaiting the president.

    , @Bernie
    @Liberty Mike

    Did Trump need Stanley Levinson to write his speeches?

  77. @Mike_from_SGV
    A lady from Texas once remarked to me, "I can understand why they wanted someone from their group to be a national icon, but was King they best they could do?"

    Replies: @Jake, @Seneca44, @Prester John, @The Alarmist, @JimDandy, @krustykurmudgeon, @anon

    King couldn’t shine Jackie Robinson’s shoes as a man.

  78. @James Speaks
    350+270=620. From this table

    [https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/GREIQ.aspx]

    GRE=620 --> 80 IQ, which for a black is so-so. But MLK was disadvantaged by the education system then compared to today, so that surely adds 15 points, yielding IQ 95. A bit dull but not noticeably deficient in white society, yet above average among negroes. An IQ slightly above average makes for successful politicians. Plus, he had a dream.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Lot, @Autochthon, @Mike Tre, @Ed, @James Braxton, @Bardon Kaldian, @peterike, @Jack D, @Bernie, @Jonathan Mason

    But MLK was disadvantaged by the education system then compared to today

    I can assure you that even for blacks — indeed, especially for blacks — the education system then was vastly superior to what is happening now.

  79. @Mike_from_SGV
    A lady from Texas once remarked to me, "I can understand why they wanted someone from their group to be a national icon, but was King they best they could do?"

    Replies: @Jake, @Seneca44, @Prester John, @The Alarmist, @JimDandy, @krustykurmudgeon, @anon

    They could have gone with Malcom X.

    Here’s what Wikipedia claims was his means of escaping conscription for WW2:

    Summoned by the local draft board for military service in World War II, he feigned mental disturbance by rambling and declaring: “I want to be sent down South. Organize them nigger soldiers … steal us some guns, and kill us [some] crackers”. He was declared “mentally disqualified for military service”.

    Which is highly creative … in fact, utterly brilliant. Then again, there was this little detail, which most would assume is evidence of stupidity, though Joe Biden might consider it to be a sign of high intelligence:

    In 1946, he was arrested while picking up a stolen watch he had left at a shop for repairs….

    Hey, at least he had enough wit about him to go back and pick it up, unlike Hunter Biden.

    • Replies: @krustykurmudgeon
    @The Alarmist

    I'm of the view that John Lewis was the "understudy" in case a scandal blew up in MLK's face.

    , @Sid F
    @The Alarmist

    "highly creative" ?

    He was just being honest.

  80. @tyrone
    @Anonymous

    He still got the phd. and will be called "doctor " until Gabriel blows his trumpet.

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    Kamala would have offered to do that well before the end times.

    • Agree: tyrone
  81. @danand
    @Peter Akuleyev

    “I would guess his IQ was in the 120 range.”

    Peter, that seems an entirely reasonable guess based off Dr.Kings GRE scores, for his time. King certainly made use of his sufficient intellect and great public demeanor. The real debate is over what he ultimately accomplished.

    “...Mike Douglas Show from 1967...”

    Thanks for the info on the MD show interview:

    https://youtu.be/9SfH2uMayks

    https://youtu.be/_FQIlE-WlM8

    https://youtu.be/tvB5a9_XJ3I


    Interesting tidbit, at least to me; both King and Obama felt they had to give up their White loves to maintain their “blackness”.

    “In his third year at Crozer, King became romantically involved with the White daughter of an immigrant German woman who worked as a cook in the cafeteria. King planned to marry her, but friends advised against it, saying that an interracial marriage would provoke animosity from both blacks and whites. King tearfully told a friend that he could not endure his mother's pain over the marriage and broke the relationship off six months later. He continued to have lingering feelings toward the woman he left; one friend was quoted as saying, "He never recovered."”

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @Ian Smith, @anonsasmaug, @John Up North, @obwandiyag

    I’ll bet she and her family did, though. Gott Sei Dank.

  82. @Mr. Anon
    @SND


    I thought the idea of a multiple choice test in philosophy was pretty darned funny.
     
    Imagine the questions on Marxism:

    Jane comes from a family of land-owning peasants, but has not expressed overtly counter-revolutionary views. Jane should be: a.) Appointed director of a state farm, b.) Sent to work in a factory, c.) Liquidated.

    Replies: @Known Fact

    If Jean-Paul Sartre leaves Pleasantville at 9 AM, traveling at 45 miles per hour …

    • LOL: Polemos
    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Known Fact


    If Jean-Paul Sartre leaves Pleasantville at 9 AM, traveling at 45 miles per hour …
     
    Sartre was published in Reader's Digest? Paramour Simone's The Second Sex was a bestseller, perhaps more so here than in France, but it's hard to imagine RD digesting that, either.

    A future Queen of Sweden, Princess Estelle (second in line at the moment) may have been named for a native of Pleasantville.

    Her Royal Highness, the Duchess of Östergötland's first cousin four times removed (by marriage) became a countess in her adopted land. The Countess's husband, a diplomat, was assassinated in 1948. You can guess where.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

  83. @Bardon Kaldian
    @James Speaks


    Plus, he had a dream.
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HMjOiHqE18

    Replies: @RadicalCenter

    I had many a dream about the ladies in ABBA.

    • Replies: @Truth
    @RadicalCenter

    There were none.

  84. @Polistra
    @NJ Transit Commuter


    If I’ve learned anything in life, it’s that there is a positive correlation between success in life and IQ, but its not all that high.
     
    Yep. Intelligence helps up to a point, but it's no substitute for tenacity, self-discipline, and diplomacy.

    Steve, I think you demean yourself by snickering about someone’s low standardized test scores. Didn’t think anyone over 22 did that…
     
    Agree with this too. Not a good look, on today of all days. I'm sure it'll bring out the unreconstructed bigots among us though.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Anon, @bomag, @George Taylor, @Anonymous

    Not a good look, on today of all days. I’m sure it’ll bring out the unreconstructed bigots among us though.

    Are non-bigots better people? Higher scorers, so to speak.

    This is tit-for-tat: we’re hectored on other national holidays about how T. Jefferson started the slave trade; Columbus slaughtered billions of indigenes; G. Washington touched someone inappropriately. Now that trashing national icons is coin of the realm, MLK gets his turn.

  85. @prime noticer
    wasn't his real name Michael King? how does the transcript show his fake name? unless he had it legally changed.

    sorry, i won't check wikipedia on this guy.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @J.Ross, @Hans, @Brutusale

    His father, a street preacher, went by Daddy King until he rebranded under Martin Luther King. Apparently, he never got around to legally changing Michael’s name. I wonder if Michelle has..

    “We read in Michael Hoffman’s Holiday for a Cheater:

    The first public sermon that King ever gave, in 1947 at the Ebenezer Baptist Church, was plagiarized from a homily by Protestant clergyman Harry Emerson Fosdick entitled “Life is What You Make It,” according to the testimony of King’s best friend of that time, Reverend Larry H. Williams. The first book that King wrote, Stride Toward Freedom, was plagiarized from numerous sources, all unattributed, according to documentation recently assembled by sympathetic King scholars Keith D. Miller, Ira G. Zepp, Jr., and David J. Garrow. And no less an authoritative source than the four senior editors of The Papers of Martin Luther King, Jr. (an official publication of the Martin Luther King Center for Nonviolent Social Change, Inc., whose staff includes King’s widow Coretta), stated of King’s writings at both Boston University and Crozer Theological Seminary: “Judged retroactively by the standards of academic scholarship, [his writings] are tragically flawed by numerous instances of plagiarism…. Appropriated passages are particularly evident in his writings in his major field of graduate study, systematic theology.” King’s essay, “The Place of Reason and Experience in Finding God,” written at Crozer, pirated passages from the work of theologian Edgar S. Brightman, author of The Finding of God. Another of King’s theses, “Contemporary Continental Theology,” written shortly after he entered Boston University, was largely stolen from a book by Walter Marshall Horton. King’s doctoral dissertation, “A Comparison of the Conceptions of God in the Thinking of Paul Tillich and Harry Nelson Wieman,” for which he was awarded a PhD in theology, contains more than fifty complete sentences plagiarized from the PhD dissertation of Dr. Jack Boozer, “The Place of Reason in Paul Tillich’s Concept of God.”

    According to The Martin Luther King Papers, in King’s dissertation “only 49 per cent. of sentences in the section on Tillich contain five or more words that were King’s own….”!

    “In The Journal of American History, June 1991, page 87, David J. Garrow, a leftist academic who is sympathetic to King, says that King’s wife, Coretta Scott King, who also served as his secretary, was an accomplice in his repeated cheating. Reading Garrow’s article, one is led to the inescapable conclusion that King cheated because he had chosen for himself a political role in which a PhD would be useful”

    http://www.revilo-oliver.com/Kevin-Strom-personal/Beast_as_Saint.html

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Hans


    Apparently, he never got around to legally changing Michael’s name.
     
    Again, one does not have to change one's name "legally".

    This is not Europe. The law isn't what Napoleon said 200 years ago. We have common law, which simply says, "Go ahead, change your name. Or your kid's. Just doing it makes it legal."

    The guy probably committed at least one rape, and you folks go on and on about a perfectly valid name change?
  86. @Jake
    @Mike_from_SGV

    King was below average in everything but ability to rattle off speeches that made sense to Liberals and were recognized by Leftists as serving all of their interests. King was an actor, and not a particularly bright actor. Approximately one-third of his dissertation is plagiarized, and most of the plagiarized passages are not paraphrases; they are direct quotes, or very nearly direct quotes, that King presents as his ideas, his assessments.

    King plagiarized like an average intelligence 5th grade white boy.

    King was picked by the Liberal white Elite to be the replacement for Booker T. Washington, who was truly intelligent and whose core was largely conservative. King was picked precisely because he was a vain puppet waiting to be promoted and because he was, even early on, easily blackmailed because he intended to copulate with every female he found attractive, including teenagers.

    Very quickly King's inner circle featured not merely avowed Socialists and well known fellow travelers of Marxists, but well known homosexuals, including a pederast or two (for example, see James Baldwin and Bayard Rustin).

    Replies: @Hans, @JimB, @Truth

    The Beast As Saint: The Truth About “Martin Luther King” has the details:

    The Federal Bureau of Investigation had for many years been aware of Stanley Levison’s Communist activities. It was Levison’s close association with King that brought about the initial FBI interest in King.

    Lest you be tempted to believe the controlled media’s lie about “racists” in the FBI being out to “get” King, you should be aware that the man most responsible for the FBI’s probe of King was Assistant Director William C. Sullivan. Sullivan describes himself as a liberal, and says that initially “I was one hundred per cent. for King…because I saw him as an effective and badly needed leader for the Black people in their desire for civil rights.” The probe of King not only confirmed their suspicions about King’s Communist beliefs and associations, but it also revealed King to be a despicable hypocrite, an immoral degenerate, and a worthless charlatan.

    According to Assistant Director Sullivan, who had direct access to the surveillance files on King which are denied the American people, King had embezzled or misapplied substantial amounts of money contributed to the “civil rights” movement. King used SCLC funds to pay for liquor, and numerous prostitutes both Black and White, who were brought to his hotel rooms, often two at a time, for drunken sex parties which sometimes lasted for several days. These types of activities were the norm for King’s speaking and organizing tours.

    In fact, an outfit called the “National Civil Rights Museum” in Memphis, Tennessee, which is putting on display the two bedrooms from the Lorraine Motel where King stayed the night before he was shot, has declined to depict in any way the occupants of those rooms. That—according to exhibit designer Gerard Eisterhold—would be “close to blasphemy.” The reason? “Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.” spent his last night on Earth having sexual intercourse with two women at the motel and physically beating and abusing a third.

    Sullivan also stated that King had alienated the affections of numerous married women. According to Sullivan, who in 30 years with the Bureau had seen everything there was to be seen of the seamy side of life, King was one of only seven people he had ever encountered who was such a total degenerate.

    Noting the violence that almost invariably attended King’s supposedly “non-violent” marches, Sullivan’s probe revealed a very different King from the carefully crafted public image. King welcomed members of many different Black groups as members of his SCLC, many of them advocates and practitioners of violence. King’s only admonition on the subject was that they should embrace “tactical nonviolence.”

    http://www.revilo-oliver.com/Kevin-Strom-personal/Beast_as_Saint.html

  87. @Anonymous
    The percentiles are very unimpressive but a much smaller % took GRE then, so I'd expect an average GRE-taker's IQ to be 120-124. This should make MLK's IQ ~90. Slightly smarter than an average black. Which is what you'd expect anyway based on his writings, his life and his children's lack of any visible accomplishments.

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Anonymous

    None of us have a real solid idea about ALL of MLK’s children.

  88. @danand
    @Peter Akuleyev

    “I would guess his IQ was in the 120 range.”

    Peter, that seems an entirely reasonable guess based off Dr.Kings GRE scores, for his time. King certainly made use of his sufficient intellect and great public demeanor. The real debate is over what he ultimately accomplished.

    “...Mike Douglas Show from 1967...”

    Thanks for the info on the MD show interview:

    https://youtu.be/9SfH2uMayks

    https://youtu.be/_FQIlE-WlM8

    https://youtu.be/tvB5a9_XJ3I


    Interesting tidbit, at least to me; both King and Obama felt they had to give up their White loves to maintain their “blackness”.

    “In his third year at Crozer, King became romantically involved with the White daughter of an immigrant German woman who worked as a cook in the cafeteria. King planned to marry her, but friends advised against it, saying that an interracial marriage would provoke animosity from both blacks and whites. King tearfully told a friend that he could not endure his mother's pain over the marriage and broke the relationship off six months later. He continued to have lingering feelings toward the woman he left; one friend was quoted as saying, "He never recovered."”

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @Ian Smith, @anonsasmaug, @John Up North, @obwandiyag

    I’ve not seen any evidence that Obama dated any black women before Michelle. And I’m sure she’s aware of his fondness for Becky B*tches.

    https://www.firstpost.com/world/photos-barack-obama-with-denmarks-pm-helle-thorning-schmidt-1280805.html

    • Replies: @Muggles
    @Ian Smith


    I’ve not seen any evidence that Obama dated any black women before Michelle
     
    The real question is how many white men did he date?

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

  89. @NJ Transit Commuter
    I’m happy to discuss the good and bad sides of MLK and do find the hagiography surrounding him ridiculous. Unless your mom’s a virgin, none of us are perfect.

    Having said that, Steve, I think you demean yourself by snickering about someone’s low standardized test scores. Didn’t think anyone over 22 did that...

    If I’ve learned anything in life, it’s that there is a positive correlation between success in life and IQ, but its not all that high.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Seth, @Alfa158, @TTSSYF, @Dacian Julien Soros, @Anonymous

    Tests are Mr Sailers kto? kogo?

    If there’s a person he needs to praise (typically a Jew, always an anti-tax rich guy), he gets all “oooh, look at the end of the bell curve, who knew it could be so edgyyyyyy, so shaaaarp”.

    If there’s a Trump or a Kushner, he manages to find something else to talk about. Absolutely anything will do. Did you know intelligence is multidimensional?

    • Replies: @JosephB
    @Dacian Julien Soros


    Did you know intelligence is multidimensional?
     
    Can you sharpen the statement: multidimensional how? G was done by performing a factor analysis on a variety of cognitive tests. It is tautological that having additional factors will perform at least as well as using just one. The question is whether the other factors add considerable variability beyond the first. Generally the answer is "no," although sometimes a factoring of spatial vs verbal has utility.

    If you mean Gardner's multiple intelligences, that's been horribly misunderstood (according to Gardner), as, for example, kinesthetic intelligence, is not helpful for learning academic material. When asked why he didn't call them "talents," he said a book about "multiple talents" would not get as much attention.
  90. Completely unrelated, but a very cool use of photo-generative AI:

    Photoreal Roman Emperor Project
    https://voshart.medium.com/photoreal-roman-emperor-project-236be7f06c8f

    • Replies: @Lucius Somesuch
    @Anonymous

    Caveat:


    **CONCISE UPDATE (July 31st) replacing a July 27th CLARIFICATION: ‘TheApricity’, a tertiary source, has been removed entirely. I knew it to be unreliable prior to starting this project but kept here for posterity and debate. It is now clear to me they have distorted primary and secondary sources to push a pernicious white supremacist agenda.
     
    https://voshart.medium.com/appearance-of-the-principate-pt-i-efa3c759d2b6

    Gotta keep out dat "pernicuous white supreemaciss agenda" when you talkin bout princepz n sheeit
    , @ChrisZ
    @Anonymous

    Thanks. An interesting project.

    I thought the depiction of Augustus had something of Putin about him.

    , @Muggles
    @Anonymous

    The problem with this AI Roman Emperor project is that according to most scholars (all in fact) virtually none of the statues or carvings of these guys was done from life.

    Yes there were some that incorporated accurate descriptions to some extent, but all ancient ruler images were done for propaganda reasons. I.e. Stalin was short and ugly, with thinning hair, not like the Pravda photos.

    While some of these bore some resemblance, if you were a Roman Emperor your venerated imagery would like like a Photoshopped pr photo, not like you really were.

    Replies: @Jack D

  91. @Polistra
    @Anonymous

    https://i.ibb.co/wWfRQtP/Hechinger-Report.jpg


    Mobs of white citizens rioting have been commonplace in the United States for centuries
    A history lesson that Americans need to learn if we hope to end the violence of white mobs

    by Joshua D. Rothman
    January 8, 2021
     

    The Hechinger Report
    Covering Innovation & Inequality in Education

    You’ll find many of our stories in the pages of the nation’s biggest newspapers, magazines and websites and on the air of its most prominent broadcasters. That’s because we provide our work to them for free, to increase awareness about the important stories our journalists are reporting.
     

    Replies: @Ris_Eruwaedhiel

    I doubt that (((Joshua Rothman))) considers himself White.

  92. @Anonymouse
    @Charles St. Charles

    I took the GRE in 1958. The test was in 2 parts: verbal and mathematical. AFAIK, a perfect score in each part was 800. I got a perfect score in the verbal part. In the mathematical part, I did fairly well. I don't remember that score number.

    Yes, my parents were jewish. But I didn't kill Him.

    Replies: @Foreign Expert, @Bardon Kaldian, @Cato, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @krustykurmudgeon, @Rich

    In the 1980s an 800 verbal GRE was extremely rare — the 99th percentile began at 720. On the other hand, an 800 quantitative was common, a 92nd percentile score. This was before the big Chinese student invasion, but there were many Koreans.

    • Replies: @Anonymouse
    @Cato

    I forgot to mention that I took a benzedrine pill before taking the GRE which a student nurse girlfriend had given me a bottle of. I'm sure it helped raise my score.

  93. Can’t say what the GRE was like in 1951 but I took it in 1977 and 2020, and it certainly changed between those two dates. It now has a couple of essay questions! And I “got” – I refuse to say I “earned” – a score in the 35th percentile on ’em. Wow, did I accidentally hit Ctrl-A and Ctrl-X just before transmitting what I wrote?

    The propositions seemed uncontroversial, and my approach was to point out some obvious merits and demerits of pro and con, then come down on one side – expressed gently, as a mere preference, not a thunderous declaration – and of course keep it brief. And, perhaps fatally, toss in some spice. One of the propositions had to do with something like term limits, though it wasn’t phrased that way. I happened to mention how I’d learned the Portuguese adjective “lifetime,” in a Brazilian magazine story about the Italian senate, which does have some members-for-life. I said the tone of the article was at once envious and weary, and that a political system that elicited these two reactions may not be a good one. It was as if South Americans wanted but also feared that much power to repose with certain people.

    I think I resisted the temptation to add how I learned the Spanish adjective for “lifetime,” which is almost identical. I’d seen it in an Ecuadorean newspaper, the sports pages actually, applied to the president of a local soccer club. Well, whatever I said, it was poorly received.

    By the way, I used the same approach – and possibly with the same results – when I took the CASPer, also last year. This is an online personality evaluation that many medical schools and even some vet schools want. That test comprises short video scenarios where you are imagined to be an onlooker in a discussion, at the end of which you are asked what you would do. In my answers I sought to quote all sides – to prove that I had at least listened to them – then propose some course of action. Just don’t shrug! But if I sensed that waiting could be profitable – the situation might resolve on its own, or new information might soon come in – I suggested that.

    So how did I do on the CASPer? I don’t know. It is made clear that you never find out your score. I wasn’t even sure that there was a numerical output, until one medical school said it needed the Z-score. Although I’d taken a fair amount of probability and statistics – and medical schools definitely expect you to have – I could not recall what a Z-score was. Well, it’s just the number of standard deviations away from the mean. So there is a mean. Huh.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @John

    So how did I do on the CASPer? I don’t know. It is made clear that you never find out your score. I wasn’t even sure that there was a numerical output, until one medical school said it needed the Z-score. Although I’d taken a fair amount of probability and statistics – and medical schools definitely expect you to have – I could not recall what a Z-score was. Well, it’s just the number of standard deviations away from the mean. So there is a mean. Huh.

    So you decided to go to medical school after retirement? Talk about unternehmungslustig! Best of luck to you in your new career.

  94. @unit472
    Back in the 1980's I became a big fan of Televangelist Jimmy Swaggart who, like King, was a preacher. Swaggart was big on alliteration and used that preacher's cadence style of speaking too. Thus he could strut about the stage and denounce the Khomeini's, the Khaddafy's and the Castro's with great effect.
    It was mesmerizing and I once thought he might become President of the United States. He could also sing and play piano ( his cousin was Jerry Lee Lewis). Unfortunately for Swaggart he was actually caught, unlike MLK, in a motel room with a prostitute so even if he only spent $15 of his congregations money on his sin it destroyed him.

    Don't know how what Swaggart's IQ was but you didn't listen to him for the finer points on Christian theology it was his oratory and showmanship that put him on top of the evangelical ratings. My guess is Jerry Falwell was his intellectual superior as he created a substantial university from nothing and built a national organization The Moral Majority to advance his ideas.

    So it was with MLK. High yellow Andrew Young was likely much smarter than King but he didn't have the oratorical skills and charisma of King so he ran the Southern Christian Leadership Conference for King and probably wrote a few of Kings more celebrated speeches and letters.

    Replies: @Barnard, @ChrisZ

    Swaggart is still preaching in his 80s with his son and now his grandson. The Pentecostal movement puts more emphasis on the show than on the particulars of theology.

  95. @Jack Armstrong
    Off topic:

    NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Sarah Fuller, the first woman to score in a Power Five conference football game, says she’s been invited to attend President-elect Joe Biden’s inauguration on Wednesday.

    “It’s an honor to be invited to participate in one of America’s greatest traditions,” Fuller posted Sunday on social media.

    “This historic inauguration is especially meaningful for American women and girls. The glass ceilings are breaking,” she added, including the Twitter handles for Vice President-elect Kamala Harris — who will become the first woman to hold that office — Biden, and their inaugural committee.
     
    More proof that I’m most likely living in an iSteve computer simulation. If Althea Bernstein is at the inauguration then I’ll know for sure.

    Replies: @Seneca44, @Rob McX

    What an honor for Ms. Fuller to attend the first Hunger Games Inauguration!

    • Agree: By-tor
  96. Thanks to this thread, we’ve managed to narrow down MLK’s IQ range from 80-120.

    I wish I could remember where I read the opinion that King’s ‘I Have A Dream’ speech was untypical of his normal fare, which was more verbose and ponderous. Are there other celebrated speeches on record?

  97. @TTSSYF
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    Yes, I think success in life can be calculated as a weighted average of intelligence, motivation, self-discipline, and, depending on the field, leadership/people skills. In The Confidence Course, Walter Anderson uses an analogy to describe three factors that contribute to a person's success or failure in life. The car is your genetics and native intelligence (a gleaming sports car, old jalopy, Toyota Corolla), the road you travel on is the environment you grow up in (rocky, full of potholes vs. a super highway), with the operation of the vehicle and navigation of the road (i.e., the driver) your free will.

    Replies: @Znzn

    You know that character attributes are also inherited right?

    • Replies: @TTSSYF
    @Znzn

    Yes. But, speaking for myself, I believe they can be cultivated to some degree by the people you surround yourself with. A lot of mine were cultivated by the people I've worked with over the past several decades. It's helped clear up a lot moral confusion I had due to my upbringing. So I'd rather believe this glass is half-full, rather than half-empty.

  98. @Jack Armstrong
    @anonymous

    You’re an idiot. How could Dr. King be a plaguerist? Corona-19 hadn’t even been invited.

    Replies: @Gary in Gramercy, @International Jew

    That’s impressive: the love child of Tiny Duck, Norm Crosby and Dr. Irwin Corey.

    • Thanks: Jack Armstrong
  99. @Charles St. Charles

    Anybody remember how GREs were scored 70 years ago?
     
    Nope, but my offhand assumption is that they were more difficult.

    However they were scored, these are unimpressive, in terms of where he falls in percentiles.

    But then again, Hitler and Mussolini were probably not great test takers either, and MLK is part of that cohort of, you know, charismatic orators.

    Replies: @Anonymouse, @George, @John Regan, @Desiderius

    “unimpressive, in terms of where he falls in percentiles.” It is possible competition was better in 1951 than today. It is not clear to me how he scored superior in Literature but nothing else. But scoring high in literature should be good enough for liberal arts, like divinity school.

    “Many people have questioned me about the wisdom of my path” – MLK

    MLK: Beyond Vietnam – A Time to Break Silence

  100. @James Speaks
    350+270=620. From this table

    [https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/GREIQ.aspx]

    GRE=620 --> 80 IQ, which for a black is so-so. But MLK was disadvantaged by the education system then compared to today, so that surely adds 15 points, yielding IQ 95. A bit dull but not noticeably deficient in white society, yet above average among negroes. An IQ slightly above average makes for successful politicians. Plus, he had a dream.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Lot, @Autochthon, @Mike Tre, @Ed, @James Braxton, @Bardon Kaldian, @peterike, @Jack D, @Bernie, @Jonathan Mason

    There is a hint on how scoring must have changed (been made easier) by the comment that King’s 470 literature score placed him in the TOP quartile. Today a 470 in literature places you in the BOTTOM quartile. (But a 470 in Chemistry with all that Asian male competition ahead of you puts you in the 3rd percentile.) The 75th percentile is equivalent to a 630 in literature today. So roughly speaking you should add 160 points to MLK’s scores to put them in 2020 terms. That translates to 510V, 430Q. 940 translates according to your table to 106 IQ, which would make him slightly above average for a white person but about 20 points above average for an African American. That sounds about right. Still for a person with a 106 IQ to undertake a PhD program is not easy – the pressure (combined with his general lack of personal ethics) must have lead MLK to plagiarism.

    https://www.ets.org/s/gre/pdf/gre_guide.pdf

    See Table 2B (or not 2B?)

    Also note that according to Table 2A, nowadays 63% of the Literature test takers are women but only 23% of those taking the Physics test. M+F don’t add up to 100% in this table so there must be 2 or 3% “other”.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @Jack D

    Took me about 2 minutes to find the GRE adopted the SAT type 500 mean 100SD, normed on college seniors, circa 1956.

    You are correct that the old scale was drastically different. Despite being an 800 point scale, King’s score reports indicated scores were clustered a mean of about 415. 360 was a bottom 25% score while 470 was a top 25% score.

    However, I found a source from 1949 on BU sophomores, who were mostly WWII vets and often well into their 20s, that said they averaged in the high 400s with an SD of 76:

    https://core.ac.uk/reader/142045530



    The development of new scales for the aptitude and advanced tests of the Graduate Record Examinations.

    Margaret K Schultz, William H Angoff
    Journal of Educational Psychology 47 (5), 285, 1956

    Standardization of new scales for the aptitude and advanced tests of the Graduate Record Examinations (GRE) is described. The normative population consists of 2,095 seniors at 11 colleges." Scores on the Verbal and Quantitative parts of the Aptitude Test were converted to yield scaled score means of 500 and standard deviations of 100. Scores on the Advanced Tests were adjusted to reflect differences in Aptitude Test scores among the groups taking the separate Advanced Tests." Equations used for obtaining the scaled scores for the GRE advanced tests are given.

    , @res
    @Jack D

    See my comment discussing his literature score. Not sure what is going on with the "top quartile" business. For reference, roughly speaking the quartile boundaries are -0.7, 0, and +0.7 SD.

    Overall your rough and ready estimate of IQ 106 seems reasonable to me (perhaps a bit high). Notice that assuming they are still using the mean/SD of 500/100 scoring your adding 160 implies that today's GRE test takers are -1.6 SD from those of 1951. That is roughly the difference between an average IQ of 100 and an IQ of 124. The latter seems plausible but high for 1951 GRE takers and the former seems too low for Current Year GRE takers. Which is why I think you might be overcorrecting a bit.

    P.S. Putting numbers to the end of your first paragraph: assume black IQ mean/SD are 85/15 (which is another discussion, but we are talking rough estimates here). Based on that a 106 IQ would be +1.4 SD which is top 8.1% or just making the "Talented Tenth." Which does indeed sound about right.

  101. @HammerJack
    @James Speaks

    an overall shortage of information and most of what they have is false.
     

    We've improved upon that so much with the rise of social media. Now people have access to a virtual plethora of information and nearly all of it is false.

    Replies: @James Speaks

    Now people have access to a virtual plethora of information and nearly all of it is false.

    Yea, verily. The young woke (yokes?) are like blinded little sheep … armed with AR-15s.

  102. Obviously he was suffering from Stereotype Threat.

    • LOL: europeasant
  103. What King’s scores demonstrate is the surprisingly large size of the gap between verbal fluency and verbal IQ.

    In the real world, verbal fluency is a big deal, and not to be despised.

    I suspect, though, that in most whites, there’s a tighter correlation between verbal fluency and verbal IQ. Or, perhaps more precisely, among blacks and whites there’s a decent correlation between the two, but only when restricted to their own race. That is, King may have had a high verbal IQ for blacks, but only for blacks, and this correlates with his high verbal fluency — high for both blacks and whites.

    It’s g, but only g, which blacks seem to lack on average. In some larger sense, it’s probably whites who are the freaks of nature when it comes to g.

    • Agree: res
    • Replies: @Mike Tre
    @candid_observer

    This idea that blacks have a high verbal fluency as a group is one of the biggest myths I’ve ever seen propagated. I work and have worked with countless negroes as I am a teamster (the one and only trade negroes have any representation to speak of) in Chicago and the surrounding area. For the most part, these people cannot get three words out of their mouths before an ear splitting “UHHHHH” or three is to be heard as they attempt to string a complete and coherent sentence together.

    Worth mentioning is their total obliteration of the English language as it is, with their “dats, gibs, norfs, soufs, fidd’ns, dindus and nuffins” as well as dropping the last consonant from pretty much every word they speak.

    Can some of them learn to speak well? Sure. A bear can also be taught to ride a bicycle.

    And sorry negrophiliacs, rap doesn’t count.

    Replies: @Truth

    , @Peter Akuleyev
    @candid_observer

    Africans are also well known for their ability to learn and speak multiple languages fluently. A skill that Americans often confuse with high intelligence. In fact, some very high IQ aspergery people I know seem incapable of mastering even one foreign language, suggesting mimicry probably plays a significant role in language acquisition.

    Replies: @utu, @Anon, @JohnnyWalker123

    , @Bardon Kaldian
    @candid_observer

    Now, that's interesting ....

  104. Well the converse of MLK are the supposed “Best and Brightest” who every year parachute from the “Elite” schools into Washington and Wall Street where they proceed to wreck businesses and entire economies, conjure up pathological social programs saturated with obvious unintended consequences and initiate and prosecute pointless Wars to Nowhere that cost the American taxpayers $Trillions.

    If MLK with his low test scores had been in government now, would he have been leading the charge for the massive U.S. enabled train-wrecks in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Libya, Ukraine… that were conjured up by the Ivy League/Stanford Nitwits who Biden is recycling back into government?

    There are various flavors of intelligence and also various flavors of stupidity that are not captured by test scores.

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
    @Neutral Observer

    He wanted all government spending (= all White taxpayer dollars) to go to blacks.

  105. @Polistra
    @NJ Transit Commuter


    If I’ve learned anything in life, it’s that there is a positive correlation between success in life and IQ, but its not all that high.
     
    Yep. Intelligence helps up to a point, but it's no substitute for tenacity, self-discipline, and diplomacy.

    Steve, I think you demean yourself by snickering about someone’s low standardized test scores. Didn’t think anyone over 22 did that…
     
    Agree with this too. Not a good look, on today of all days. I'm sure it'll bring out the unreconstructed bigots among us though.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Anon, @bomag, @George Taylor, @Anonymous

    Yep. Intelligence helps up to a point, but it’s no substitute for tenacity, self-discipline, and diplomacy.

    Like intelligence, I believe “ambition” has a strong genetic component as well. I know very smart people, PHD’s, medical doctors, engineers etc., determination yes but still missing that next level tenacity of an Elon Musk, Edison, Steve Job’s etc. Is that made or born? I think it’s always both but the narrative among mainstream conservatives and liberals tends to dismiss the genetic component.

  106. @Polistra
    @Acilius

    Agree. Not only did he not seem particularly dim, he's one of the century's greatest orators which isn't as easy as it may look to those who haven't tried.

    Replies: @TTSSYF, @anonsasmaug, @europeasant, @Bert, @Jus' Sayin'...

    His tone is like Hitler. He was was more of a Hitler for black people, a national socialist. I don’t think there was anything great about him. It’s a style and a tone, a rhythm that attracts and mesmerizes some preachers have that, blurting out anything and you think it sounds good, resonates deep in your soul yada yada blah blah this is how people are manipulated and propagandized. “I have a dream” shouted out is about all anyone knows of what he said. Wow! What an orator.

  107. @Jack Armstrong
    @anonymous

    You’re an idiot. How could Dr. King be a plaguerist? Corona-19 hadn’t even been invited.

    Replies: @Gary in Gramercy, @International Jew

    Plaguerist. Nice.

  108. @Jack D
    @James Speaks

    There is a hint on how scoring must have changed (been made easier) by the comment that King's 470 literature score placed him in the TOP quartile. Today a 470 in literature places you in the BOTTOM quartile. (But a 470 in Chemistry with all that Asian male competition ahead of you puts you in the 3rd percentile.) The 75th percentile is equivalent to a 630 in literature today. So roughly speaking you should add 160 points to MLK's scores to put them in 2020 terms. That translates to 510V, 430Q. 940 translates according to your table to 106 IQ, which would make him slightly above average for a white person but about 20 points above average for an African American. That sounds about right. Still for a person with a 106 IQ to undertake a PhD program is not easy - the pressure (combined with his general lack of personal ethics) must have lead MLK to plagiarism.

    https://www.ets.org/s/gre/pdf/gre_guide.pdf

    See Table 2B (or not 2B?)

    Also note that according to Table 2A, nowadays 63% of the Literature test takers are women but only 23% of those taking the Physics test. M+F don't add up to 100% in this table so there must be 2 or 3% "other".

    Replies: @Lot, @res

    Took me about 2 minutes to find the GRE adopted the SAT type 500 mean 100SD, normed on college seniors, circa 1956.

    You are correct that the old scale was drastically different. Despite being an 800 point scale, King’s score reports indicated scores were clustered a mean of about 415. 360 was a bottom 25% score while 470 was a top 25% score.

    However, I found a source from 1949 on BU sophomores, who were mostly WWII vets and often well into their 20s, that said they averaged in the high 400s with an SD of 76:

    https://core.ac.uk/reader/142045530

    [MORE]

    The development of new scales for the aptitude and advanced tests of the Graduate Record Examinations.

    Margaret K Schultz, William H Angoff
    Journal of Educational Psychology 47 (5), 285, 1956

    Standardization of new scales for the aptitude and advanced tests of the Graduate Record Examinations (GRE) is described. The normative population consists of 2,095 seniors at 11 colleges.” Scores on the Verbal and Quantitative parts of the Aptitude Test were converted to yield scaled score means of 500 and standard deviations of 100. Scores on the Advanced Tests were adjusted to reflect differences in Aptitude Test scores among the groups taking the separate Advanced Tests.” Equations used for obtaining the scaled scores for the GRE advanced tests are given.

    • Thanks: Polemos
  109. @candid_observer
    What King's scores demonstrate is the surprisingly large size of the gap between verbal fluency and verbal IQ.

    In the real world, verbal fluency is a big deal, and not to be despised.

    I suspect, though, that in most whites, there's a tighter correlation between verbal fluency and verbal IQ. Or, perhaps more precisely, among blacks and whites there's a decent correlation between the two, but only when restricted to their own race. That is, King may have had a high verbal IQ for blacks, but only for blacks, and this correlates with his high verbal fluency -- high for both blacks and whites.

    It's g, but only g, which blacks seem to lack on average. In some larger sense, it's probably whites who are the freaks of nature when it comes to g.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Peter Akuleyev, @Bardon Kaldian

    This idea that blacks have a high verbal fluency as a group is one of the biggest myths I’ve ever seen propagated. I work and have worked with countless negroes as I am a teamster (the one and only trade negroes have any representation to speak of) in Chicago and the surrounding area. For the most part, these people cannot get three words out of their mouths before an ear splitting “UHHHHH” or three is to be heard as they attempt to string a complete and coherent sentence together.

    Worth mentioning is their total obliteration of the English language as it is, with their “dats, gibs, norfs, soufs, fidd’ns, dindus and nuffins” as well as dropping the last consonant from pretty much every word they speak.

    Can some of them learn to speak well? Sure. A bear can also be taught to ride a bicycle.

    And sorry negrophiliacs, rap doesn’t count.

    • Agree: By-tor
    • Replies: @Truth
    @Mike Tre


    And sorry negrophiliacs, rap doesn’t count.
     
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SApmSrHDhQo
  110. @candid_observer
    What King's scores demonstrate is the surprisingly large size of the gap between verbal fluency and verbal IQ.

    In the real world, verbal fluency is a big deal, and not to be despised.

    I suspect, though, that in most whites, there's a tighter correlation between verbal fluency and verbal IQ. Or, perhaps more precisely, among blacks and whites there's a decent correlation between the two, but only when restricted to their own race. That is, King may have had a high verbal IQ for blacks, but only for blacks, and this correlates with his high verbal fluency -- high for both blacks and whites.

    It's g, but only g, which blacks seem to lack on average. In some larger sense, it's probably whites who are the freaks of nature when it comes to g.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Peter Akuleyev, @Bardon Kaldian

    Africans are also well known for their ability to learn and speak multiple languages fluently. A skill that Americans often confuse with high intelligence. In fact, some very high IQ aspergery people I know seem incapable of mastering even one foreign language, suggesting mimicry probably plays a significant role in language acquisition.

    • Agree: 3g4me, Bardon Kaldian
    • Replies: @utu
    @Peter Akuleyev

    "Africans are also well known" - How we'll is it know and by whom?

    , @Anon
    @Peter Akuleyev


    Africans are also well known for their ability to learn and speak multiple languages fluently.
     
    I'm not sure where you got this idea. Africans are not known for being fluent polyglots.

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev

    , @JohnnyWalker123
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Languages have rules of grammar that you must understand. Languages have subjects, adjectives, verbs, and adverbs. Languages have large numbers of vocabulary words.

    If you can fluently speak a language, that's evidence of high IQ.

    Here's one way to separate mimicry from verbal IQ. Have a discussion/argument with a person. If they can craft unique points in response to your points, then they likely have a high IQ. If they keep repeating the same thing over and over without any ability to improvise anything new, then they're just mimicking what they've heard in the past.

    Improvisation of verbal arguments is evidence of strong verbal ability.

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev, @Jack D

  111. All this shows is how worthless standardized tests are

    • Replies: @Gary in Gramercy
    @Tiny Duck

    And you would know. You're a Naturally Marinated Scholar.

  112. @Mike Tre
    @Lot

    I'd like to hear more about all of your time spent with blacks. Is it mostly filing lawsuits for them after they slip and fall in a retail store?

    Or is it watching them on TV?

    Replies: @Marty

    An aspiring black plaintiff once came into my office. He’d been fired from a $14/hr. job as a forklift driver in a large glass bottling plant. I asked him why he was fired, and he said, “they don’t like black people there.” Since it was a union job, he couldn’t sue in court, but I was intrigued so I called his union rep. The rep told me the guy had been warned twice not to smoke dope on his lunch hour. He got caught a third time, and the union didn’t feel it should risk its credibility in the grievance process for this guy. When he came in the next time, I asked him about the lunch hour dope smoking, and he said, “they let the white guys do it.”

    • Thanks: Mike Tre
    • Replies: @Gary in Gramercy
    @Marty

    You had me at "aspiring black plaintiff." Thanks for the laughs.

    , @Nicholas Stix
    @Marty

    So, he was a bloody imbecile.

    You’d think the widow King would have gotten that federal judge to put that little fact under lock and key, too. If I had to choose between people learning that I had the IQ of an artichoke and that I was a rapist, I’d say, “Bury the GRE scores!”

    Maybe there were just too many things for her to cover.

    , @Nicholas Stix
    @Marty

    I was once assigned to defend a black murderer. He insisted he was innocent of the crime. I asked him why he was indicted, and he said, “They don’t like black people there.”

    I was intrigued, so I called the prosecutor handling the case. The ADA told me the guy had been on probation for a rape, but kept on committing felonies. The judges just kept putting him back on probation, until he murdered this White girl.

    When I brought this up with him, he said, “They let the white guys do it.”

    I re-phrased your vignette (though without your wit), because it has a universal character, regarding blacks, and not just black shakedown artists. Black non-offenders talk like that all the time about black felons. “They let the white guys do it.”

    , @additionalMike
    @Marty

    I have been involved in many cases just like that...if plaintiff can assemble enough White Guys/Gals Who Skated (known in the trade as "comparators") he will have a prima facie case, and mebbe a settlement.

    Replies: @Marty

  113. Source: CSKC, INP, Coretta Scott King Collection, In Private Hands

    I wonder why Coretta made the scores available.

    And I wonder whether the embarrassing FBI stuff on the G.L.O.A.T. (= Greatest Lifeform Of All Time) will actually be released in 2027. When 2027 comes around, I would not be the least bit surprised if it’s announced that it was all destroyed at some point, maybe before now.

    • Replies: @additionalMike
    @Calvin Hobbes

    Agree, Mr. Hobbes.
    There will be a flood, or a power failure (fires are out of fashion), or a successful lawsuit by the family ($) to block release.
    If they are going to destroy it before now, they had better get a move on.
    Where is Sandy Berger when you need him?

    Replies: @JerseyJeffersonian

    , @John Mansfield
    @Calvin Hobbes

    Releasing FBI surveillance of anyone is an obscenity. The government spying is done with the purpose of investigating and prosecuting crimes, and if it is never publicly used for that purpose, never presented as evidence in a trial, then the files should be shredded.

  114. @Steve Sailer
    @Anon

    But 1951 was a long time ago when it comes to test scoring.

    Replies: @Anon

    But 1951 was a long time ago when it comes to test scoring.

    That’s what was funny about your “Anyone remember …?” question: “Oh yeah Steve, I’m 95-year-old guy who worked at ETS right out of college, and ….”

  115. @Hypnotoad666

    his verbal aptitude score is in the second lowest quartile
     
    I have to imagine that the pool of graduate students in 1950 -- before the era of mass college attendance -- was pretty elite. So being in the bottom of this group may not be that unimpressive.

    King was obviously a very good wordsmith. His speeches and letters are classic and moving. But his gift was in being emotive, not logical. He was also a very good politician and administrator.

    Maybe the lesson from King's mediocre GREs is that character, focus, and hard work can be more important in most realms than having a high IQ. (And I know King had character issues with women).

    Those are the qualities that blacks frankly need to succeed in light of their actual IQ scores. But instead, they're told they are natural talents who are held back only by invisible "systemic racism." The leftists are not doing blacks any favors in the long run with this wokeness philosophy

    Replies: @dearieme

    The leftists are not doing blacks any favors in the long run

    Their purpose is to do themselves favours.

  116. @Peter Akuleyev
    @candid_observer

    Africans are also well known for their ability to learn and speak multiple languages fluently. A skill that Americans often confuse with high intelligence. In fact, some very high IQ aspergery people I know seem incapable of mastering even one foreign language, suggesting mimicry probably plays a significant role in language acquisition.

    Replies: @utu, @Anon, @JohnnyWalker123

    “Africans are also well known” – How we’ll is it know and by whom?

  117. Anon[426] • Disclaimer says:

    I suspect, though, that in most whites, there’s a tighter correlation between verbal fluency and verbal IQ. Or, perhaps more precisely, among blacks and whites there’s a decent correlation between the two, but only when restricted to their own race. That is, King may have had a high verbal IQ for blacks, but only for blacks, and this correlates with his high verbal fluency — high for both blacks and whites.

    I think you are right on here. In my opinion, this is where a lot of the inability to accept racial IQ differences comes from. Blacks can simultaneously have high verbal fluency and average or even low IQ.

    In every day interaction, many blacks can be articulate and socially adept. It isn’t until things become abstract or require multiple steps of reasoning that the gaps start showing.

    It is very easy to see why upper and middle class whites who only interact with the most talented and verbally fluent blacks would assume equal intelligence with whites of similar verbal fluency. It is a heuristic we all use.

    It can be hard to mentally reconcile that an 85 IQ black who is fluent and able to function independently has the same capability for abstraction as an 85 IQ white with obvious social and mental deficits.

    • Agree: europeasant, Jack D
    • Replies: @Dieter Kief
    @Anon

    So what? The black potential rises at times above the level which would have been expected from the IQ. Alright. Might have to do with rhythm and energy - and - - - - feeling (and all this melanin melatonin business we heard of lately....)? I never thought that Mississippi John Hurt was a rather bright guy - but he sure did write and perform a handful of great songs. If somebody told me, he had an IQ of 85, I wouldn't even bother to doubt that. A bunch of his songs (Maxwell Coffee Blues) are still touchy as - - - hell...at the crossroads...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fg20kQUMHY

    Replies: @Jack D

  118. @Jake
    @Mike Tre

    Correct. and it was specific. He and his posse picked Martin Luther, not Menno Simons, not Huldrych Zwingli, most certainly not Thomas More. They knew what the fruits of Luther were; they the body counts of The Peasants War and the 30 Years War. They knew that before Reformation settled down in the Germanies that most of the wealth that had existed at the dawn of the 15th century had changed hands forcibly, by way of revolution. Martin Luther inspired waves of revolution that slaughtered huge numbers of people and redistributed most wealth in Germanic lands.

    They could have picked Henry VIII for a similar reason, but it would not have worked nearly as well.

    Replies: @dearieme, @SFG, @Hibernian

    it would not have worked nearly as well.

    Yeah, Henry Tudor King VIII sounds childish.

  119. @danand
    @Peter Akuleyev

    “I would guess his IQ was in the 120 range.”

    Peter, that seems an entirely reasonable guess based off Dr.Kings GRE scores, for his time. King certainly made use of his sufficient intellect and great public demeanor. The real debate is over what he ultimately accomplished.

    “...Mike Douglas Show from 1967...”

    Thanks for the info on the MD show interview:

    https://youtu.be/9SfH2uMayks

    https://youtu.be/_FQIlE-WlM8

    https://youtu.be/tvB5a9_XJ3I


    Interesting tidbit, at least to me; both King and Obama felt they had to give up their White loves to maintain their “blackness”.

    “In his third year at Crozer, King became romantically involved with the White daughter of an immigrant German woman who worked as a cook in the cafeteria. King planned to marry her, but friends advised against it, saying that an interracial marriage would provoke animosity from both blacks and whites. King tearfully told a friend that he could not endure his mother's pain over the marriage and broke the relationship off six months later. He continued to have lingering feelings toward the woman he left; one friend was quoted as saying, "He never recovered."”

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @Ian Smith, @anonsasmaug, @John Up North, @obwandiyag

    What a special story. A German, white woman. Oh, Guess who almost came to dinner? What a shock it must be for the racist Nazi white people to hear such a tale. Must have dug at them down deep in their hillbilly cracka-ass souls. Wasn’t he a great plagiarizer, which is just a nice way of saying liar?
    It almost reads like a made for tv story directed by Jussie Smollet.

  120. Oh, give MLK Jr. a break on the test scores. I believe in HBD but much as everyone on the left likes to whine about oppression being responsible for test score gaps nowadays back in the 40s and 50s it was most certainly a factor.

    Also, test scores aren’t everything. I mean, they’re correlated with success, but they aren’t the only factor by far. Also, public speaking and political activism requires an ability to connect with the people you are trying to organize–Mark Zuckerberg is brilliant but I don’t think even he believes he’s going to be president at this point. An IQ of 150 isn’t going to help you in politics unless you’re running to represent Silicon Valley.

    Now, yeah, for technology the brighter the better. But that’s a field that attracts bright people, often with poor social skills, because the field is intellectually challenging and not terribly social. It’s not the same thing at all. Even athletes trying to play different sports often do poorly–look at Jordan’s awful baseball career. Bo Jackson was famous because he was so rare.

    MLK Jr. was at the right point for what he wanted to do, and he did it quite well. Whether it was good for you (or me-I grew up afraid to go outside after sundown) is another factor entirely.

    • Replies: @Icy Blast
    @SFG

    Stanley Levison was a brilliant speechwriter. He was King's "Director of Communications," so to speak.

  121. @Jake
    @Mike Tre

    Correct. and it was specific. He and his posse picked Martin Luther, not Menno Simons, not Huldrych Zwingli, most certainly not Thomas More. They knew what the fruits of Luther were; they the body counts of The Peasants War and the 30 Years War. They knew that before Reformation settled down in the Germanies that most of the wealth that had existed at the dawn of the 15th century had changed hands forcibly, by way of revolution. Martin Luther inspired waves of revolution that slaughtered huge numbers of people and redistributed most wealth in Germanic lands.

    They could have picked Henry VIII for a similar reason, but it would not have worked nearly as well.

    Replies: @dearieme, @SFG, @Hibernian

    You want your kid to go around called ‘Menno’ or ‘Huldrych’? In 1930s America?

    He probably thought ‘famous Christian’ and admired his standing against the authority of the day. Whether you’re Catholic or Protestant, among religious rebels, Martin Luther must be considered one of the foremost, perhaps topped only by that Jewish kid from Nazareth.

    • Replies: @anonsasmaug
    @SFG

    "What chu talkin bout Willis"?
    Aw, ain't he so special?
    No.

    , @BB753
    @SFG

    Out of the reformers and protestant theologians, Calvin was the most extreme revolutionary in the worldly and religious sense. A gnostic at heart.

    Replies: @anon

  122. @James Speaks
    350+270=620. From this table

    [https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/GREIQ.aspx]

    GRE=620 --> 80 IQ, which for a black is so-so. But MLK was disadvantaged by the education system then compared to today, so that surely adds 15 points, yielding IQ 95. A bit dull but not noticeably deficient in white society, yet above average among negroes. An IQ slightly above average makes for successful politicians. Plus, he had a dream.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Lot, @Autochthon, @Mike Tre, @Ed, @James Braxton, @Bardon Kaldian, @peterike, @Jack D, @Bernie, @Jonathan Mason

    Muhammed Ali also had a very low IQ (from his Army entrance tests). I see from the comments that many wonder, “Why are such funny, engaging people and stirring orators so low in intelligence? Must be something wrong with IQ tests.”

    I look at it the other way. Making stirring speeches – complete with a fake accent, alternating cadences and loud, booming outbursts at the right time – is not really a sign of intelligence. I wont even get into who wrote his speeches. Same with being a funny jokester who can rhyme and engage in amusing banter with interviewers.

    • Agree: John Regan
    • Replies: @Thoth
    @Bernie

    Charles Manson was functionally illiterate. but according to those whohe came in contact with, Neil Young, Terry Melcher, et al, he was very witty and could come up with funny wordplayas well as writing decent lyrics and music .

    He was also giffted with enough gab to form a large harem of young girls

    IQ tests don't pick up every intelligence

  123. @Jake
    @Mike Tre

    Correct. and it was specific. He and his posse picked Martin Luther, not Menno Simons, not Huldrych Zwingli, most certainly not Thomas More. They knew what the fruits of Luther were; they the body counts of The Peasants War and the 30 Years War. They knew that before Reformation settled down in the Germanies that most of the wealth that had existed at the dawn of the 15th century had changed hands forcibly, by way of revolution. Martin Luther inspired waves of revolution that slaughtered huge numbers of people and redistributed most wealth in Germanic lands.

    They could have picked Henry VIII for a similar reason, but it would not have worked nearly as well.

    Replies: @dearieme, @SFG, @Hibernian

    Luther’s theology served as a pretext for the seizure of Church land by German Princes. Henry VIII seized the land himself, based on Protestant theology that had come to England’s shores and had begun to influence Anglicanism, which it did very early on.

    • Agree: BB753
  124. @SFG
    @Jake

    You want your kid to go around called 'Menno' or 'Huldrych'? In 1930s America?

    He probably thought 'famous Christian' and admired his standing against the authority of the day. Whether you're Catholic or Protestant, among religious rebels, Martin Luther must be considered one of the foremost, perhaps topped only by that Jewish kid from Nazareth.

    Replies: @anonsasmaug, @BB753

    “What chu talkin bout Willis”?
    Aw, ain’t he so special?
    No.

  125. @ValleyBoyPhD
    I have no idea if the man could do figures, but if the GRE shows MLK was a verbal mediocrity it suggests there was something wrong with the GRE, at least in 1951.

    Replies: @Alice in Wonderland, @Icy Blast

    Stanley Levinson (I hope I have his name right) was responsible for King’s reputation for eloquence.

    • Agree: Dutch Boy
  126. Anonymous[422] • Disclaimer says:

    King seemed like a fellow who was pretty good at aping those he was around. Typically, those suffering from pathologies figure out they can get a long way socially and professionally by floating amongst their betters, and reflecting their behavior. “He acts rich, is around the rich, so he must be. He acts like an intellectual, is around intellectuals, so he must be.”

    Surrounded by those who want the sociopath to be as presented, the false presentation becomes supercharged. That’s the social science that powers many of our American “gurus.”

    Unfortunately, as pressures mount to for consistency, the sociopath tends to crack at the seams, and their basest of drives become embarrassingly apparent.

    Oddly, like noted sociopath Jim Baker, even when exposed, their most devoted plebes refuse to acknowledge their leader’s treachery. The man had a congregation waiting for him when he left prison.

    Note to aspiring sociopaths: Since you have no character, you will be wildly influenced by whom you hang out with. To maintain your bullshit for the long run, try to pick your associates wisely.

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Anonymous

    "If you just act like you know what you're doing,

    Everybody thinks that you do."

    -- Joe Walsh, "I'm Just Lucky That Way"
    .
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyC_IQQjmzU&list=OLAK5uy_mz0hpcYPqwHro4MnHJ5-7AkmpfgMfw9qE

  127. @Jack Armstrong
    Off topic:

    NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Sarah Fuller, the first woman to score in a Power Five conference football game, says she’s been invited to attend President-elect Joe Biden’s inauguration on Wednesday.

    “It’s an honor to be invited to participate in one of America’s greatest traditions,” Fuller posted Sunday on social media.

    “This historic inauguration is especially meaningful for American women and girls. The glass ceilings are breaking,” she added, including the Twitter handles for Vice President-elect Kamala Harris — who will become the first woman to hold that office — Biden, and their inaugural committee.
     
    More proof that I’m most likely living in an iSteve computer simulation. If Althea Bernstein is at the inauguration then I’ll know for sure.

    Replies: @Seneca44, @Rob McX

    You’ll really know you’re in an iSteve computer simulation if Haven Monahan turns up among the protestors.

  128. @SFG
    Oh, give MLK Jr. a break on the test scores. I believe in HBD but much as everyone on the left likes to whine about oppression being responsible for test score gaps nowadays back in the 40s and 50s it was most certainly a factor.

    Also, test scores aren't everything. I mean, they're correlated with success, but they aren't the only factor by far. Also, public speaking and political activism requires an ability to connect with the people you are trying to organize--Mark Zuckerberg is brilliant but I don't think even he believes he's going to be president at this point. An IQ of 150 isn't going to help you in politics unless you're running to represent Silicon Valley.

    Now, yeah, for technology the brighter the better. But that's a field that attracts bright people, often with poor social skills, because the field is intellectually challenging and not terribly social. It's not the same thing at all. Even athletes trying to play different sports often do poorly--look at Jordan's awful baseball career. Bo Jackson was famous because he was so rare.

    MLK Jr. was at the right point for what he wanted to do, and he did it quite well. Whether it was good for you (or me-I grew up afraid to go outside after sundown) is another factor entirely.

    Replies: @Icy Blast

    Stanley Levison was a brilliant speechwriter. He was King’s “Director of Communications,” so to speak.

  129. @candid_observer
    What King's scores demonstrate is the surprisingly large size of the gap between verbal fluency and verbal IQ.

    In the real world, verbal fluency is a big deal, and not to be despised.

    I suspect, though, that in most whites, there's a tighter correlation between verbal fluency and verbal IQ. Or, perhaps more precisely, among blacks and whites there's a decent correlation between the two, but only when restricted to their own race. That is, King may have had a high verbal IQ for blacks, but only for blacks, and this correlates with his high verbal fluency -- high for both blacks and whites.

    It's g, but only g, which blacks seem to lack on average. In some larger sense, it's probably whites who are the freaks of nature when it comes to g.

    Replies: @Mike Tre, @Peter Akuleyev, @Bardon Kaldian

    Now, that’s interesting ….

  130. Which is why he had to plagiarize his doctoral thesis.

  131. Anybody remember how GREs were scored 70 years ago?

    There were major changes to the scoring in 1952 (King took the test in 1951). The best reference I found was this 1977 guide.
    https://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED163085

    I don’t see data for the earlier version, but because of the rescaling they did a standardization in 1952 and the results are summarized (mean/SD for each subtest) in Table 15 on page 33/41. I think the discussion in the text casts some light on things even if it does not give simple answers. See pages 32/40 to 33/41.

    In short, before 1952 the scores were targeted for mean 500 and SD 100 for the group taking each test. After 1952 the advanced test scores were adjusted for the ability (measured by the verbal and quantitative tests) of the groups taking each subtest. Repeating your image to make it easier to discuss we see:

    MLK’s scores in general were consistently dismal and reflective of a verbal tilt (no surprise there). Almost all of his scores were in the -1.5 to -2.3 SD range, but as you observed, the test taking population was probably considerably more able then (a full SD as a guess? More since we are talking about grad school and supposedly average college student IQ was around +1 SD then?).

    The big outlier is his literature score. Which, if I am reading Table 15 correctly, is especially interesting. His 470 is near (-0.3 SD) the mean of a group which was significantly more verbally able (+0.6 SD) than the overall GRE taking population.

    So he genuinely appears to have done well (all things considered) on the literature test. But I am not sure where they got “top quartile” from since if I understand things correctly that 470 places him below the mean of test takers and thus in the third (one up from the lowest) quartile.

    • Thanks: Rob McX
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @res

    This is all very interesting.

    Here we are, in a comment section heavily populated by +2, +3 SD people, ourselves mostly neither rare nor exceptional, and yet we are seriously discussing a famous public figure who was not just mediocre for the most part, but shockingly so. That mostly mediocre man now has a national holiday named after him, and people take it seriously. This really is clown world.

    This posting of Steve's is very, very revealing.

    Replies: @res, @Anonymouse

  132. @Mike_from_SGV
    A lady from Texas once remarked to me, "I can understand why they wanted someone from their group to be a national icon, but was King they best they could do?"

    Replies: @Jake, @Seneca44, @Prester John, @The Alarmist, @JimDandy, @krustykurmudgeon, @anon

    Low-IQs obviously lead to some truly retarded accusations of racism, but what explains the mainstream media’s acceptance of such claims? From a current USA Today article:

    Fabricated claims debunked by fact-checkers targeting victims of police brutality George Floyd, Jacob Blake and Breonna Taylor remain on Facebook, despite pledges by the social media giant to support the Black community, a new investigation from human rights group Avaaz found.
    Insinuating racist stereotypes and tropes, the claims include that Floyd’s death under the knee of a white police officer was staged, that Blake raped a 14-year-old and that Taylor was shot in bed while she was asleep (she was awake).

    So… the false narrative that was spread about Taylor being asleep in bed when she was shot was the work of white supremacists? Because black people being shot while they are sleeping at night is a racist trope? Like eating watermelon?

    The writer is Jessica Guynn, a white woman who apparently has a black baby. Wokeness causes brain damage.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2021/01/19/facebook-racist-claims-george-floyd-breonna-taylor-jacob-blake/4184064001/

    • Replies: @Brutusale
    @JimDandy

    Blonde with more chins than the Peking phone book? A black baby?

    https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/395544fd648cb6c758e52e41d2bdcdee05e39600/c=0-100-564-664/local/-/media/2018/12/11/USATODAY/USATODAY/636801328459032275-Jessica-Guynn.png

    Yeah, I'd say so.

    , @Richard B
    @JimDandy


    Low-IQs obviously lead to some truly retarded accusations of racism, but what explains the mainstream media’s acceptance of such claims? From a current USA Today article:
     
    Even Malcolm X had their number nearly 60 years ago. But they had no problem ignoring him. Meaning, this kind of behavior has been going on for that long (obviously a lot longer, but you get the idea).

    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8869214-the-white-liberal-is-the-worst-enemy-to-america-and

    All in a days work for the hostile elite who operate out of The Dark Triad. But it also serves The KKK, The Ku Klux Karens and the rest of the goodwhites who use POCs to feed their addiction to mood-altering through self-righteousness.

    This insanity isn't going to stop itself. But it's obviously more than happy to crush anything that stands in its way. Speaking of which, at this point. it's kind of hard not to come to the conclusion that the human mind itself is literally insane.

    We're definitely in no position to laugh at the dinosaurs for getting themselves extinct. After all, they lasted a lot longer than we have so far.

  133. OT – from the Daily Beast – What America really needs is a CHEKA (by Jeff Stein):

    Can U.S. Spy Agencies Stop White Terror?

    https://archive.fo/ciwb7

    He’s equating the Capitol riot of January 6th with 9/11, and breathlessly saying that the Trump rioters almost did what Al Quaeda couldn’t – “destroy the Capitol”. Do these people even read what they write. Do they know how hysterical and silly it sounds?

    Maybe Jeff Stein had some ancestors who were chekists; it’ll always be chekists vs. whites for some people.

  134. @res

    Anybody remember how GREs were scored 70 years ago?
     
    There were major changes to the scoring in 1952 (King took the test in 1951). The best reference I found was this 1977 guide.
    https://eric.ed.gov/?id=ED163085

    I don't see data for the earlier version, but because of the rescaling they did a standardization in 1952 and the results are summarized (mean/SD for each subtest) in Table 15 on page 33/41. I think the discussion in the text casts some light on things even if it does not give simple answers. See pages 32/40 to 33/41.

    In short, before 1952 the scores were targeted for mean 500 and SD 100 for the group taking each test. After 1952 the advanced test scores were adjusted for the ability (measured by the verbal and quantitative tests) of the groups taking each subtest. Repeating your image to make it easier to discuss we see:

    https://www.unz.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Screen-Shot-2021-01-18-at-9.02.49-PM.png

    MLK's scores in general were consistently dismal and reflective of a verbal tilt (no surprise there). Almost all of his scores were in the -1.5 to -2.3 SD range, but as you observed, the test taking population was probably considerably more able then (a full SD as a guess? More since we are talking about grad school and supposedly average college student IQ was around +1 SD then?).

    The big outlier is his literature score. Which, if I am reading Table 15 correctly, is especially interesting. His 470 is near (-0.3 SD) the mean of a group which was significantly more verbally able (+0.6 SD) than the overall GRE taking population.

    So he genuinely appears to have done well (all things considered) on the literature test. But I am not sure where they got "top quartile" from since if I understand things correctly that 470 places him below the mean of test takers and thus in the third (one up from the lowest) quartile.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    This is all very interesting.

    Here we are, in a comment section heavily populated by +2, +3 SD people, ourselves mostly neither rare nor exceptional, and yet we are seriously discussing a famous public figure who was not just mediocre for the most part, but shockingly so. That mostly mediocre man now has a national holiday named after him, and people take it seriously. This really is clown world.

    This posting of Steve’s is very, very revealing.

    • Replies: @res
    @Buzz Mohawk

    More truth than I like in your comment, but it is worth observing that IQ is far from the only characteristic relevant to being an outstanding man (or woman). (I am sure you know this, but I think it is worth being explicit about it)

    I think MLK's example does make an argument that our test regime underrates blacks relative to their ability to make contributions in some areas.

    The problem is that has been used to conclude that the tests underrate blacks in all areas with the consequent demolition of much of our meritiocratic system. Which is and will continue to become even more of a disaster in areas where competence actually does matter.

    It is worth observing that the demolition of the meritocratic measures we had is a wonderful gift to "elites" with mediocre children. I do not think that is a coincidence.

    Replies: @anon, @Anonymous, @vhrm

    , @Anonymouse
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I'm not too thrilled that the only Federal holiday dedicated to an American hero is that of Martin Luther King with Lincoln and Washington mixmastered into a generic President's Day.

    OTOH, it cannot be denied that King was an exceptional man for his times, a pacifist following the example of Mahatma Gandhi in preaching non-violence and making witness to right a wrong, the evil system of segregation inflicted on black fellow-citizens. And he opposed the Vietnam War as well. And paid the price of dying for that cause. So he was a great cocksman - big deal. So he plagierized his Ph.D. dissertation - no biggie.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

  135. @Jack D
    @James Speaks

    There is a hint on how scoring must have changed (been made easier) by the comment that King's 470 literature score placed him in the TOP quartile. Today a 470 in literature places you in the BOTTOM quartile. (But a 470 in Chemistry with all that Asian male competition ahead of you puts you in the 3rd percentile.) The 75th percentile is equivalent to a 630 in literature today. So roughly speaking you should add 160 points to MLK's scores to put them in 2020 terms. That translates to 510V, 430Q. 940 translates according to your table to 106 IQ, which would make him slightly above average for a white person but about 20 points above average for an African American. That sounds about right. Still for a person with a 106 IQ to undertake a PhD program is not easy - the pressure (combined with his general lack of personal ethics) must have lead MLK to plagiarism.

    https://www.ets.org/s/gre/pdf/gre_guide.pdf

    See Table 2B (or not 2B?)

    Also note that according to Table 2A, nowadays 63% of the Literature test takers are women but only 23% of those taking the Physics test. M+F don't add up to 100% in this table so there must be 2 or 3% "other".

    Replies: @Lot, @res

    See my comment discussing his literature score. Not sure what is going on with the “top quartile” business. For reference, roughly speaking the quartile boundaries are -0.7, 0, and +0.7 SD.

    Overall your rough and ready estimate of IQ 106 seems reasonable to me (perhaps a bit high). Notice that assuming they are still using the mean/SD of 500/100 scoring your adding 160 implies that today’s GRE test takers are -1.6 SD from those of 1951. That is roughly the difference between an average IQ of 100 and an IQ of 124. The latter seems plausible but high for 1951 GRE takers and the former seems too low for Current Year GRE takers. Which is why I think you might be overcorrecting a bit.

    P.S. Putting numbers to the end of your first paragraph: assume black IQ mean/SD are 85/15 (which is another discussion, but we are talking rough estimates here). Based on that a 106 IQ would be +1.4 SD which is top 8.1% or just making the “Talented Tenth.” Which does indeed sound about right.

  136. @Acilius
    King must have been having a bad day when he took that test. Not that there aren't successful political leaders who are below average in g, but King didn't seem to be one of them.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Joe Sweet

    King must have been having a bad day when he took that test.

    Maybe he was up all the night before the test, raging drunk, enjoying an orgy with his homies and bunch of hookers.

  137. @Anonymous
    There's also the plagiarism stuff. In ordinary circumstances his doctorate would have been revoked.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King_Jr._authorship_issues#Dissertation_and_other_academic_papers

    Martin Luther King Jr.'s papers were donated by his wife Coretta Scott King to Stanford University's King Papers Project. During the late 1980s, as the papers were being organized and catalogued, the staff of the project discovered that King's doctoral dissertation at Boston University, titled A Comparison of the Conception of God in the Thinking of Paul Tillich and Henry Nelson Wieman, included large sections from a dissertation written by another student (Jack Boozer) three years earlier at Boston University.[1][2]

    As Clayborne Carson, director of the King Papers Project at Stanford University, has written, "instances of textual appropriation can be seen in his earliest extant writings as well as his dissertation. The pattern is also noticeable in his speeches and sermons throughout his career."[3]

    Boston University, where King received his Ph.D. in systematic theology, conducted an investigation that found he appropriated[3] and plagiarized major portions of his doctoral thesis from various other authors who wrote about the topic.[4][5]

    According to civil rights historian Ralph Luker, who worked on the King Papers Project directing the research on King's early life, King's paper The Chief Characteristics and Doctrines of Mahayana Buddhism[6] was taken almost entirely from secondary sources.[7] He writes:

    Moreover, the farther King went in his academic career, the more deeply ingrained the patterns of borrowing language without clear attribution became. Thus, the plagiarism in his dissertation seemed to be, by then, the product of his long established practice.[7]

    The incident was first reported in the December 3, 1989, edition of the Sunday Telegraph by Frank Johnson, titled "Martin Luther King—Was He a Plagiarist?" The incident was then reported in U.S. in the November 9, 1990, edition of the Wall Street Journal, under the title of "To Their Dismay, King Scholars Find a Troubling Pattern". Several other newspapers then followed with stories, including the Boston Globe and the New York Times. Although Carson believed King had acted unintentionally,[8] he also stated that King had been sufficiently well acquainted with academic principles and procedures to have understood the need for extensive footnotes, and he was at a loss to explain why King had not used them.[8]

    Boston University decided not to revoke his doctorate, saying that although King acted improperly, his dissertation still "makes an intelligent contribution to scholarship."[4] The committee also dismissed allegations that King plagiarized writings which he used to develop his organization and chapter headings.[4] However, a letter is now attached to King's dissertation in the university library, noting that numerous passages were included without the appropriate quotations and citations of sources.[1][4][9][non-primary source needed][clarification needed]

    Ralph Luker questioned whether King's professors at the Crozer Theological Seminary held him to lower standards because he was a Black, citing as evidence the fact that King received lower marks (a C+ average) at the historically black Morehouse College than at Crozer, where he was a minority being graded mostly by white teachers and received an A− average.[7][10] Boston University has denied that King received any special treatment.
     

    Replies: @Henry's Cat, @anonymous, @tyrone, @Burnham's Ghost

    Seeing a lot of comments on here saying that King was an excellent writer, thus he must have been fairly bright. Many do not know that several if not most of King’s speeches were written by Stanley Levinson, member of the Communist Part in the US , who worked for the Soviet Union.

  138. @AceDeuce
    @SND

    Dylan didn't perform the Hattie Carroll song at the march on DC. In fact, he didn't even write it until just after the day of the march, which was the same day that Zantzinger (that's how it's spelled, BTW) was convicted of manslaughter.

    Replies: @SND

    You’re right, AceDeuce. My memory failed me. It was actually Only a Pawn in Their Game that impressed me so.

  139. @Buzz Mohawk
    @res

    This is all very interesting.

    Here we are, in a comment section heavily populated by +2, +3 SD people, ourselves mostly neither rare nor exceptional, and yet we are seriously discussing a famous public figure who was not just mediocre for the most part, but shockingly so. That mostly mediocre man now has a national holiday named after him, and people take it seriously. This really is clown world.

    This posting of Steve's is very, very revealing.

    Replies: @res, @Anonymouse

    More truth than I like in your comment, but it is worth observing that IQ is far from the only characteristic relevant to being an outstanding man (or woman). (I am sure you know this, but I think it is worth being explicit about it)

    I think MLK’s example does make an argument that our test regime underrates blacks relative to their ability to make contributions in some areas.

    The problem is that has been used to conclude that the tests underrate blacks in all areas with the consequent demolition of much of our meritiocratic system. Which is and will continue to become even more of a disaster in areas where competence actually does matter.

    It is worth observing that the demolition of the meritocratic measures we had is a wonderful gift to “elites” with mediocre children. I do not think that is a coincidence.

    • Agree: Lot
    • Replies: @anon
    @res

    It is worth observing that the demolition of the meritocratic measures we had is a wonderful gift to “elites” with mediocre children. I do not think that is a coincidence.

    Paging Peter Turchin. Paging Peter "Excess production of elites" Turchin.

    If we learn anything from history, pace' Hegel, it that the decline of standards has many implications. Many implications.

    , @Anonymous
    @res


    I think MLK’s example does make an argument that our test regime underrates blacks relative to their ability to make contributions in some areas.
     
    Considering his scores and the fact that his academic papers and speeches seem to have been significantly plagiarized and ghostwritten, his primary contribution appears to have been to be a figurehead and frontman for a movement largely constructed by various activists, lawyers, media figures, etc. behind the scenes.
    , @vhrm
    @res


    More truth than I like in your comment, but it is worth observing that IQ is far from the only characteristic relevant to being an outstanding man (or woman). (I am sure you know this, but I think it is worth being explicit about it)

    I think MLK’s example does make an argument that our test regime underrates blacks relative to their ability to make contributions in some areas.
     
    There's also a question of what makes a person specifically "outstanding". There's a fair amount of luck and "right place right time" (or wrong time wrong place) about who gets remembered by history.

    Some random notable people (all of whom are derided by some or many):
    Greta Thunberg
    Maxine Waters
    Adolph Hitler
    George W Bush
    Donald Trump
    Elizabeth Holmes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theranos ) (who, btw, is the daughter of an Enron vp ?! what? Talk about heritable traits... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Holmes#Early_life ) )

    These people are notable and/or wielded power at some point. Some of them are smart, some of them are so so, some of them are maybe more on the dumb side.

    With MLK Jr, i'm no expert in the Civil Rights movement, but it seems to me that he was a man of his times along for the ride rather than someone of unique insight and vision. If he never existed i'm not sure anything would have been markedly different.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @res

  140. @Liberty Mike
    Does Trump possess the oratorical brilliance that MLK exhibited?

    How about the ability to put together subject, predicate, and object without stumbling and bumbling? Is Trump even in the same universe as was King?

    Replies: @Icy Blast, @northeast, @Bernie

    Obviously Trump would have benefitted from having his own Stanley Levison, but he’s too narcissistic to admit he needs an English tutor.

    • Agree: Buffalo Joe
  141. Chicago youths have a dream — your SUV

    According to Chicago police sources, there have been at least 120 carjackings in the city since the beginning of the year.

    https://abc7chicago.com/carajcking-aurora-carjacking-chicago-naperville-il/9763756/

  142. @Polistra
    @Acilius

    Agree. Not only did he not seem particularly dim, he's one of the century's greatest orators which isn't as easy as it may look to those who haven't tried.

    Replies: @TTSSYF, @anonsasmaug, @europeasant, @Bert, @Jus' Sayin'...

    If only people judged us by our actions/character and not our skin color sounds like a pretty good line.
    Okay, now let’s get rid of Affirmative Action, set asides and quotas and then we can be judged by our actions.
    Black people in general have a low mental IQ but a high social IQ. This is why they are so good at shucking and jiving.

  143. @SFG
    @Jake

    You want your kid to go around called 'Menno' or 'Huldrych'? In 1930s America?

    He probably thought 'famous Christian' and admired his standing against the authority of the day. Whether you're Catholic or Protestant, among religious rebels, Martin Luther must be considered one of the foremost, perhaps topped only by that Jewish kid from Nazareth.

    Replies: @anonsasmaug, @BB753

    Out of the reformers and protestant theologians, Calvin was the most extreme revolutionary in the worldly and religious sense. A gnostic at heart.

    • Replies: @anon
    @BB753

    https://danfromsquirrelhill.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/calvinball-2.gif

  144. OT – Biden’s choice for Assistant HHS Secretary: Mentally ill weirdo “Rachel” Levine, the Pennsylvania Health Secretary who presided over the mass death of the elderly in nursing homes (after removing his own mother from a nursing home).

    https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/politics/biden-administration/biden-picks-pa-s-dr-levine-to-be-assistant-health-secretary-would-make-history-if-confirmed/2672647/?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_PHBrand

  145. @unit472
    Back in the 1980's I became a big fan of Televangelist Jimmy Swaggart who, like King, was a preacher. Swaggart was big on alliteration and used that preacher's cadence style of speaking too. Thus he could strut about the stage and denounce the Khomeini's, the Khaddafy's and the Castro's with great effect.
    It was mesmerizing and I once thought he might become President of the United States. He could also sing and play piano ( his cousin was Jerry Lee Lewis). Unfortunately for Swaggart he was actually caught, unlike MLK, in a motel room with a prostitute so even if he only spent $15 of his congregations money on his sin it destroyed him.

    Don't know how what Swaggart's IQ was but you didn't listen to him for the finer points on Christian theology it was his oratory and showmanship that put him on top of the evangelical ratings. My guess is Jerry Falwell was his intellectual superior as he created a substantial university from nothing and built a national organization The Moral Majority to advance his ideas.

    So it was with MLK. High yellow Andrew Young was likely much smarter than King but he didn't have the oratorical skills and charisma of King so he ran the Southern Christian Leadership Conference for King and probably wrote a few of Kings more celebrated speeches and letters.

    Replies: @Barnard, @ChrisZ

    Oratorical skill is one of the most over-rated abilities. Because it’s verbal, as an ability it seems to indicate intelligence in the speaker; but in fact it might be more like the ability to sing passionately: no mean feat, but not, on its own, evidence of general smarts, nor a recommendation for investing the singer with leadership responsibility.

    The ability to sway the mass of people through speech is a great asset to a leader, and many great leaders of history have had it. For the great ones, it’s just one talent in the stack. But it’s a *visible* talent, and most people neither see nor appreciate the many invisible skills involved in high-level leadership; so they mistakenly conflate passionate oration with the speaker’s ability to lead. I too remember Swaggart (what a great name for preacher!), as well as fellow “great orators” of the day like Mario Cuomo and Jesse Jackson. All off them were noted for their potential Presidential timber–but in retrospect, can you imagine any of them in that role?

    That’s the trouble with oratorical skill: it’s so effective at fooling the watcher (which is distinct from the listener) into thinking she’s witnessing something deep, when it’s really something shallow. Another trouble is that it fools the *speaker himself* into thinking he’s more than he is. Our current political culture is full of this type.

    Interesting comment, Unit. Thanks.

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    @ChrisZ


    Oratorical skill is one of the most over-rated abilities.

     

    Depends on how you look at it.

    Public speaking is, like so many things, partly the product of innate ability, but it can certainly be improved by technique and practice, especially by actually paying attention to what makes oratory effective, and by taking some risks and trying to do things differently when you need to speak formally (e.g. learning to speak extemporaneously in most settings rather than reading from a script).

    One aspect of my job is coaching academics in public speaking/lecture skills. Many of them, although intelligent and experienced as teachers, are terrible speakers, and deep down they know it. And since effective public speaking feeds off confidence, which they lack, they never get better, no matter how many hours they stand in front of classes and conferences.

    The payoffs for being a good public speaker are variable; in academia, it doesn't always correlate with a successful career. In business or politics the payoffs are much more obvious. But for many people it's something worth working at.

    Replies: @Alden, @Desiderius

  146. @John
    Can't say what the GRE was like in 1951 but I took it in 1977 and 2020, and it certainly changed between those two dates. It now has a couple of essay questions! And I "got" - I refuse to say I "earned" - a score in the 35th percentile on 'em. Wow, did I accidentally hit Ctrl-A and Ctrl-X just before transmitting what I wrote?

    The propositions seemed uncontroversial, and my approach was to point out some obvious merits and demerits of pro and con, then come down on one side - expressed gently, as a mere preference, not a thunderous declaration - and of course keep it brief. And, perhaps fatally, toss in some spice. One of the propositions had to do with something like term limits, though it wasn't phrased that way. I happened to mention how I'd learned the Portuguese adjective "lifetime," in a Brazilian magazine story about the Italian senate, which does have some members-for-life. I said the tone of the article was at once envious and weary, and that a political system that elicited these two reactions may not be a good one. It was as if South Americans wanted but also feared that much power to repose with certain people.

    I think I resisted the temptation to add how I learned the Spanish adjective for "lifetime," which is almost identical. I'd seen it in an Ecuadorean newspaper, the sports pages actually, applied to the president of a local soccer club. Well, whatever I said, it was poorly received.

    By the way, I used the same approach - and possibly with the same results - when I took the CASPer, also last year. This is an online personality evaluation that many medical schools and even some vet schools want. That test comprises short video scenarios where you are imagined to be an onlooker in a discussion, at the end of which you are asked what you would do. In my answers I sought to quote all sides - to prove that I had at least listened to them - then propose some course of action. Just don't shrug! But if I sensed that waiting could be profitable - the situation might resolve on its own, or new information might soon come in - I suggested that.

    So how did I do on the CASPer? I don't know. It is made clear that you never find out your score. I wasn't even sure that there was a numerical output, until one medical school said it needed the Z-score. Although I'd taken a fair amount of probability and statistics - and medical schools definitely expect you to have - I could not recall what a Z-score was. Well, it's just the number of standard deviations away from the mean. So there is a mean. Huh.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    So how did I do on the CASPer? I don’t know. It is made clear that you never find out your score. I wasn’t even sure that there was a numerical output, until one medical school said it needed the Z-score. Although I’d taken a fair amount of probability and statistics – and medical schools definitely expect you to have – I could not recall what a Z-score was. Well, it’s just the number of standard deviations away from the mean. So there is a mean. Huh.

    So you decided to go to medical school after retirement? Talk about unternehmungslustig! Best of luck to you in your new career.

  147. @Pericles
    OK, so when do we get to know Barack's score?

    Replies: @europeasant

    “OK, so when do we get to know Barack’s score?”

    In about 70 years from now.

  148. @Tiny Duck
    All this shows is how worthless standardized tests are

    Replies: @Gary in Gramercy

    And you would know. You’re a Naturally Marinated Scholar.

    • LOL: Johann Ricke
  149. @Polistra
    @Acilius

    Agree. Not only did he not seem particularly dim, he's one of the century's greatest orators which isn't as easy as it may look to those who haven't tried.

    Replies: @TTSSYF, @anonsasmaug, @europeasant, @Bert, @Jus' Sayin'...

    You obviously have no familiarity with the preaching style of mid-20th century Southern Baptist preachers. Many, black and white, had a style like and equal to King’s.

  150. @Marty
    @Mike Tre

    An aspiring black plaintiff once came into my office. He’d been fired from a $14/hr. job as a forklift driver in a large glass bottling plant. I asked him why he was fired, and he said, “they don’t like black people there.” Since it was a union job, he couldn’t sue in court, but I was intrigued so I called his union rep. The rep told me the guy had been warned twice not to smoke dope on his lunch hour. He got caught a third time, and the union didn’t feel it should risk its credibility in the grievance process for this guy. When he came in the next time, I asked him about the lunch hour dope smoking, and he said, “they let the white guys do it.”

    Replies: @Gary in Gramercy, @Nicholas Stix, @Nicholas Stix, @additionalMike

    You had me at “aspiring black plaintiff.” Thanks for the laughs.

    • Agree: Mike Tre
  151. @Peter Akuleyev
    @candid_observer

    Africans are also well known for their ability to learn and speak multiple languages fluently. A skill that Americans often confuse with high intelligence. In fact, some very high IQ aspergery people I know seem incapable of mastering even one foreign language, suggesting mimicry probably plays a significant role in language acquisition.

    Replies: @utu, @Anon, @JohnnyWalker123

    Africans are also well known for their ability to learn and speak multiple languages fluently.

    I’m not sure where you got this idea. Africans are not known for being fluent polyglots.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    @Anon

    You are trolling right?

    "The average Kenyan child speaks three languages. This figure is even higher amongst children in urban deprived areas who regularly speak five languages."

    https://www.incultureparent.com/why-most-african-kids-are-multilingual/

    Replies: @Anonymous

  152. @Anonymous
    Completely unrelated, but a very cool use of photo-generative AI:

    Photoreal Roman Emperor Project
    https://voshart.medium.com/photoreal-roman-emperor-project-236be7f06c8f

    Replies: @Lucius Somesuch, @ChrisZ, @Muggles

    Caveat:

    **CONCISE UPDATE (July 31st) replacing a July 27th CLARIFICATION: ‘TheApricity’, a tertiary source, has been removed entirely. I knew it to be unreliable prior to starting this project but kept here for posterity and debate. It is now clear to me they have distorted primary and secondary sources to push a pernicious white supremacist agenda.

    https://voshart.medium.com/appearance-of-the-principate-pt-i-efa3c759d2b6

    Gotta keep out dat “pernicuous white supreemaciss agenda” when you talkin bout princepz n sheeit

  153. @J.Ross
    @Dieter Kief

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wEjbWc4eDM&list=PLYSJjOQbyvz-2gHMxGxByh0fnc2vZMFij&index=1

    Replies: @anon, @Dieter Kief

    That’s nice, actually. Didn’t know that. – But oh – Luther is now nazi too. So – Martin LUTHER King should soon be on the index. shouldn’t it?

  154. @Anonymous
    Completely unrelated, but a very cool use of photo-generative AI:

    Photoreal Roman Emperor Project
    https://voshart.medium.com/photoreal-roman-emperor-project-236be7f06c8f

    Replies: @Lucius Somesuch, @ChrisZ, @Muggles

    Thanks. An interesting project.

    I thought the depiction of Augustus had something of Putin about him.

  155. Fake name, fake degrees, fake speech, fake history.

    • Agree: BB753
    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Ghost of Bull Moose


    Fake name, fake degrees, fake speech, fake history.
     
    Reinvented himself.

    Pretty much the American dream that he had then? Like Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Nat 'King' Cole, and Sun Ra who claimed he was born on another planet, even though his sister later claimed she saw his birth through a keyhole in Alabama.

    Replies: @Jack Armstrong

  156. anon[322] • Disclaimer says:
    @res
    @Buzz Mohawk

    More truth than I like in your comment, but it is worth observing that IQ is far from the only characteristic relevant to being an outstanding man (or woman). (I am sure you know this, but I think it is worth being explicit about it)

    I think MLK's example does make an argument that our test regime underrates blacks relative to their ability to make contributions in some areas.

    The problem is that has been used to conclude that the tests underrate blacks in all areas with the consequent demolition of much of our meritiocratic system. Which is and will continue to become even more of a disaster in areas where competence actually does matter.

    It is worth observing that the demolition of the meritocratic measures we had is a wonderful gift to "elites" with mediocre children. I do not think that is a coincidence.

    Replies: @anon, @Anonymous, @vhrm

    It is worth observing that the demolition of the meritocratic measures we had is a wonderful gift to “elites” with mediocre children. I do not think that is a coincidence.

    Paging Peter Turchin. Paging Peter “Excess production of elites” Turchin.

    If we learn anything from history, pace’ Hegel, it that the decline of standards has many implications. Many implications.

  157. @Anonymous
    King seemed like a fellow who was pretty good at aping those he was around. Typically, those suffering from pathologies figure out they can get a long way socially and professionally by floating amongst their betters, and reflecting their behavior. "He acts rich, is around the rich, so he must be. He acts like an intellectual, is around intellectuals, so he must be."

    Surrounded by those who want the sociopath to be as presented, the false presentation becomes supercharged. That’s the social science that powers many of our American "gurus."

    Unfortunately, as pressures mount to for consistency, the sociopath tends to crack at the seams, and their basest of drives become embarrassingly apparent.

    Oddly, like noted sociopath Jim Baker, even when exposed, their most devoted plebes refuse to acknowledge their leader's treachery. The man had a congregation waiting for him when he left prison.

    Note to aspiring sociopaths: Since you have no character, you will be wildly influenced by whom you hang out with. To maintain your bullshit for the long run, try to pick your associates wisely.

    https://s.ecrater.com/stores/378161/575c809200560_378161b.jpg

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    “If you just act like you know what you’re doing,

    Everybody thinks that you do.”

    — Joe Walsh, “I’m Just Lucky That Way”
    .

  158. anonymous[751] • Disclaimer says:

    and yet Steve, like Greg Cochran or Jared Taylor, simply refuses to say “it’s the Jews.”

    what kind of witchcraft spell are you boomers under?

    just say the words: it’s Jews.

    MLK, civil rights, feminism, Hollywood, Wall Street, communism, the media…it’s just the Jews. that’s who is waging war on us.

    thankfully no non-boomer on the alt-right is confused about this. what the boomer mental illness about this is i have no idea–were steve, jared, and greg subjected to cia brain-washing treatments or something?

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @anonymous


    thankfully no non-boomer on the alt-right is confused about this.
     
    They just happen to agree with Jews on all sorts of social depravities-- legal pornography, legal buggery, legal abortion, sperm and egg "donation", legal contraceptive devices, legal profanity online, single-payer health care, no more Christian prayer in public schools... the list goes on and on.

    just say the words: it’s Jews.
     
    Just say the words: "Jews are lying about evolution in the schools."


    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cc/e6/2f/cce62f63f1ed0b885a4106a33b800ce0.jpg
  159. Anonymous[284] • Disclaimer says:
    @res
    @Buzz Mohawk

    More truth than I like in your comment, but it is worth observing that IQ is far from the only characteristic relevant to being an outstanding man (or woman). (I am sure you know this, but I think it is worth being explicit about it)

    I think MLK's example does make an argument that our test regime underrates blacks relative to their ability to make contributions in some areas.

    The problem is that has been used to conclude that the tests underrate blacks in all areas with the consequent demolition of much of our meritiocratic system. Which is and will continue to become even more of a disaster in areas where competence actually does matter.

    It is worth observing that the demolition of the meritocratic measures we had is a wonderful gift to "elites" with mediocre children. I do not think that is a coincidence.

    Replies: @anon, @Anonymous, @vhrm

    I think MLK’s example does make an argument that our test regime underrates blacks relative to their ability to make contributions in some areas.

    Considering his scores and the fact that his academic papers and speeches seem to have been significantly plagiarized and ghostwritten, his primary contribution appears to have been to be a figurehead and frontman for a movement largely constructed by various activists, lawyers, media figures, etc. behind the scenes.

  160. @Anon

    I suspect, though, that in most whites, there’s a tighter correlation between verbal fluency and verbal IQ. Or, perhaps more precisely, among blacks and whites there’s a decent correlation between the two, but only when restricted to their own race. That is, King may have had a high verbal IQ for blacks, but only for blacks, and this correlates with his high verbal fluency — high for both blacks and whites.
     
    I think you are right on here. In my opinion, this is where a lot of the inability to accept racial IQ differences comes from. Blacks can simultaneously have high verbal fluency and average or even low IQ.

    In every day interaction, many blacks can be articulate and socially adept. It isn't until things become abstract or require multiple steps of reasoning that the gaps start showing.

    It is very easy to see why upper and middle class whites who only interact with the most talented and verbally fluent blacks would assume equal intelligence with whites of similar verbal fluency. It is a heuristic we all use.

    It can be hard to mentally reconcile that an 85 IQ black who is fluent and able to function independently has the same capability for abstraction as an 85 IQ white with obvious social and mental deficits.

    Replies: @Dieter Kief

    So what? The black potential rises at times above the level which would have been expected from the IQ. Alright. Might have to do with rhythm and energy – and – – – – feeling (and all this melanin melatonin business we heard of lately….)? I never thought that Mississippi John Hurt was a rather bright guy – but he sure did write and perform a handful of great songs. If somebody told me, he had an IQ of 85, I wouldn’t even bother to doubt that. A bunch of his songs (Maxwell Coffee Blues) are still touchy as – – – hell…at the crossroads…

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Dieter Kief

    Certain skills are just not tested and measured on IQ tests (and less correlated or not correlated at all with g) - musical talent, athletic ability, etc. Sure you can present examples of blacks who are highly talented in non-g loaded fields. There are tons and tons of black musicians and athletes. But can you name a black mathematician or physicist who outperforms his IQ score?

    The more g loaded the occupation, the closer your IQ score will predict your actual performance. That being said, certain savant types like Feynman did not score very high on general IQ type tests because they test things like knowledge of historical events regarding which Feynman had absolutely zero interest. OTOH, his math scores were among the highest ever seen.

    Replies: @Desiderius

  161. @Neutral Observer
    Well the converse of MLK are the supposed "Best and Brightest" who every year parachute from the "Elite" schools into Washington and Wall Street where they proceed to wreck businesses and entire economies, conjure up pathological social programs saturated with obvious unintended consequences and initiate and prosecute pointless Wars to Nowhere that cost the American taxpayers $Trillions.

    If MLK with his low test scores had been in government now, would he have been leading the charge for the massive U.S. enabled train-wrecks in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Libya, Ukraine... that were conjured up by the Ivy League/Stanford Nitwits who Biden is recycling back into government?

    There are various flavors of intelligence and also various flavors of stupidity that are not captured by test scores.

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix

    He wanted all government spending (= all White taxpayer dollars) to go to blacks.

  162. @Marty
    @Mike Tre

    An aspiring black plaintiff once came into my office. He’d been fired from a $14/hr. job as a forklift driver in a large glass bottling plant. I asked him why he was fired, and he said, “they don’t like black people there.” Since it was a union job, he couldn’t sue in court, but I was intrigued so I called his union rep. The rep told me the guy had been warned twice not to smoke dope on his lunch hour. He got caught a third time, and the union didn’t feel it should risk its credibility in the grievance process for this guy. When he came in the next time, I asked him about the lunch hour dope smoking, and he said, “they let the white guys do it.”

    Replies: @Gary in Gramercy, @Nicholas Stix, @Nicholas Stix, @additionalMike

    So, he was a bloody imbecile.

    You’d think the widow King would have gotten that federal judge to put that little fact under lock and key, too. If I had to choose between people learning that I had the IQ of an artichoke and that I was a rapist, I’d say, “Bury the GRE scores!”

    Maybe there were just too many things for her to cover.

  163. Evidence King had a high IQ:

    1. He liked “reading dictionaries” as a child
    2. Skipped the 9th grade
    3. Went to HS at a university laboratory school. These tend to be a mix of professors’ children and local gifted students.
    4. Started at Morehouse at age 15, graduated with a BA at 19.
    5. Got a top 25% score in a GRE subtest in a pool normed from mostly white male college juniors and seniors at a time when senior college attendance was low.

    There’s really no way King didn’t have a top 1% IQ for US blacks. That’s not smart enough to get a Ph.D. at BU without cheating or relaxation of normal standards, but it is still very intelligent. If I had to pick a number I’d say about 120-125.

    His math GRE was very low, but it looks like he took it while he was a seminary student. So he likely took his required math classes at age 15-16 at Morehouse, then had no more math for 4-5 years at the time he took the GRE. The pool was normed on the more typical situation of college juniors and seniors who were actively taking math classes still because of STEM majors, or for the non STEM had finished their math requirement only 0.5-2 years prior. By the same token, King’s high Lit score overstated his ability since he studying the Bible and interpretation full time as a seminarian.

    • Agree: Jonathan Mason
    • Replies: @res
    @Lot


    5. Got a top 25% score in a GRE subtest in a pool normed from mostly white male college juniors and seniors at a time when senior college attendance was low.
     
    Still trying to figure out how 470 translates into "top quartile" when the test is normed so 500 is the mean.

    Replies: @Lot

  164. @Jake
    @Mike_from_SGV

    King was below average in everything but ability to rattle off speeches that made sense to Liberals and were recognized by Leftists as serving all of their interests. King was an actor, and not a particularly bright actor. Approximately one-third of his dissertation is plagiarized, and most of the plagiarized passages are not paraphrases; they are direct quotes, or very nearly direct quotes, that King presents as his ideas, his assessments.

    King plagiarized like an average intelligence 5th grade white boy.

    King was picked by the Liberal white Elite to be the replacement for Booker T. Washington, who was truly intelligent and whose core was largely conservative. King was picked precisely because he was a vain puppet waiting to be promoted and because he was, even early on, easily blackmailed because he intended to copulate with every female he found attractive, including teenagers.

    Very quickly King's inner circle featured not merely avowed Socialists and well known fellow travelers of Marxists, but well known homosexuals, including a pederast or two (for example, see James Baldwin and Bayard Rustin).

    Replies: @Hans, @JimB, @Truth

    King plagiarized like an average intelligence 5th grade white boy.

    An average intelligence 5th grade white boy wouldn’t plagiarize.

  165. @danand
    @Peter Akuleyev

    “I would guess his IQ was in the 120 range.”

    Peter, that seems an entirely reasonable guess based off Dr.Kings GRE scores, for his time. King certainly made use of his sufficient intellect and great public demeanor. The real debate is over what he ultimately accomplished.

    “...Mike Douglas Show from 1967...”

    Thanks for the info on the MD show interview:

    https://youtu.be/9SfH2uMayks

    https://youtu.be/_FQIlE-WlM8

    https://youtu.be/tvB5a9_XJ3I


    Interesting tidbit, at least to me; both King and Obama felt they had to give up their White loves to maintain their “blackness”.

    “In his third year at Crozer, King became romantically involved with the White daughter of an immigrant German woman who worked as a cook in the cafeteria. King planned to marry her, but friends advised against it, saying that an interracial marriage would provoke animosity from both blacks and whites. King tearfully told a friend that he could not endure his mother's pain over the marriage and broke the relationship off six months later. He continued to have lingering feelings toward the woman he left; one friend was quoted as saying, "He never recovered."”

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @Ian Smith, @anonsasmaug, @John Up North, @obwandiyag

    During the post war American occupation of West Germany it was not uncommon for black soldiers to marry German women. The army would relocate these couples to California where things, even at that time, were more liberal.

  166. @prime noticer
    wasn't his real name Michael King? how does the transcript show his fake name? unless he had it legally changed.

    sorry, i won't check wikipedia on this guy.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @J.Ross, @Hans, @Brutusale

  167. @Marty
    @Mike Tre

    An aspiring black plaintiff once came into my office. He’d been fired from a $14/hr. job as a forklift driver in a large glass bottling plant. I asked him why he was fired, and he said, “they don’t like black people there.” Since it was a union job, he couldn’t sue in court, but I was intrigued so I called his union rep. The rep told me the guy had been warned twice not to smoke dope on his lunch hour. He got caught a third time, and the union didn’t feel it should risk its credibility in the grievance process for this guy. When he came in the next time, I asked him about the lunch hour dope smoking, and he said, “they let the white guys do it.”

    Replies: @Gary in Gramercy, @Nicholas Stix, @Nicholas Stix, @additionalMike

    I was once assigned to defend a black murderer. He insisted he was innocent of the crime. I asked him why he was indicted, and he said, “They don’t like black people there.”

    I was intrigued, so I called the prosecutor handling the case. The ADA told me the guy had been on probation for a rape, but kept on committing felonies. The judges just kept putting him back on probation, until he murdered this White girl.

    When I brought this up with him, he said, “They let the white guys do it.”

    I re-phrased your vignette (though without your wit), because it has a universal character, regarding blacks, and not just black shakedown artists. Black non-offenders talk like that all the time about black felons. “They let the white guys do it.”

    • Thanks: David In TN
  168. @Steve Sailer
    @James Speaks

    But probably GRE scores have been inflated a lot since 1951.

    Replies: @dearieme

    I remember your comparison of the IQs of W and John Kerry, as deduced from their results in exams for would-be officers. Is there any way you can do an IQ comparison of Trump and Biden?

    I suppose it’s made difficult by their both deciding to avoid the Vietnam War with remarkable excuses.

    It’s my bone spurs, it’s my asthma. Such thumping crooks.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @dearieme

    I don't thing there is an IQ test that corrects for senile dementia.

  169. @Charles St. Charles

    Anybody remember how GREs were scored 70 years ago?
     
    Nope, but my offhand assumption is that they were more difficult.

    However they were scored, these are unimpressive, in terms of where he falls in percentiles.

    But then again, Hitler and Mussolini were probably not great test takers either, and MLK is part of that cohort of, you know, charismatic orators.

    Replies: @Anonymouse, @George, @John Regan, @Desiderius

    Hitler at least wrote his own speeches though. He didn’t need literal New York Communists to do his scripts for him.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Levison

    When people praise the great Doctor King’s rhetoric, they are really praising the subversive genius of Stanley Levison. In fact, when one strips away the mythology, King is (ironically enough) pretty close in just about every way to the perfect Ku Klux Klan caricature of a “Civil Rights” leader: a saintly public image promoted by the media, in reality a fraud and sex-fiend, and a willing mouthpiece for pedigreed un-American interests.

  170. @Henry's Cat
    @Autochthon


    Intelligence is overwhelmingly a genetic affair.
     
    Ask Kaspar Hauser. It's the blank slaters who are all the real fundamentalists.

    Replies: @Steven Carr

    On the big scale, intelligence is overwhelmingly environmental.

    Like skin colour, it is determined by the environment if you consider long enough stretches of time.

    • Replies: @Henry's Cat
    @Steven Carr

    By that logic, the environment ultimately determines itself, which is either very profound or very trivial.

  171. I’m so disappointed to learn this. Dr. Rev. Martin Luther King had been my hero since I was a small child working as a share cropper in rural Alabama with no electricity. My family viewed Doctor King as a great intellectual and a man of towering morality.

    Now I’m beginning to believe everything in America is built upon lies.

    Well at least we’ve got Doctor Biden to inspire us.

  172. @JimDandy
    @Mike_from_SGV

    Low-IQs obviously lead to some truly retarded accusations of racism, but what explains the mainstream media's acceptance of such claims? From a current USA Today article:

    Fabricated claims debunked by fact-checkers targeting victims of police brutality George Floyd, Jacob Blake and Breonna Taylor remain on Facebook, despite pledges by the social media giant to support the Black community, a new investigation from human rights group Avaaz found.
    Insinuating racist stereotypes and tropes, the claims include that Floyd's death under the knee of a white police officer was staged, that Blake raped a 14-year-old and that Taylor was shot in bed while she was asleep (she was awake).


    So... the false narrative that was spread about Taylor being asleep in bed when she was shot was the work of white supremacists? Because black people being shot while they are sleeping at night is a racist trope? Like eating watermelon?

    The writer is Jessica Guynn, a white woman who apparently has a black baby. Wokeness causes brain damage.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2021/01/19/facebook-racist-claims-george-floyd-breonna-taylor-jacob-blake/4184064001/

    Replies: @Brutusale, @Richard B

    Blonde with more chins than the Peking phone book? A black baby?

    Yeah, I’d say so.

  173. @Cato
    @Anonymouse

    In the 1980s an 800 verbal GRE was extremely rare -- the 99th percentile began at 720. On the other hand, an 800 quantitative was common, a 92nd percentile score. This was before the big Chinese student invasion, but there were many Koreans.

    Replies: @Anonymouse

    I forgot to mention that I took a benzedrine pill before taking the GRE which a student nurse girlfriend had given me a bottle of. I’m sure it helped raise my score.

  174. @Liberty Mike
    Does Trump possess the oratorical brilliance that MLK exhibited?

    How about the ability to put together subject, predicate, and object without stumbling and bumbling? Is Trump even in the same universe as was King?

    Replies: @Icy Blast, @northeast, @Bernie

    If you watch any Trump interview on Youtube from the 70s & 80s you can see that he was articulate, sharp, and intelligent. The Trump we have experienced since his election in 2016 is in obvious cognitive decline. Trump’s decline is slightly worse than average for an individual in his age group IMO.

    Trump’s father suffered from Alzheimer’s disease, and sadly I see the same fate awaiting the president.

    • Agree: Jonathan Mason
  175. @Anonymous
    I thought the GRE was just a harder SAT with the same 2 sections - Verbal and Math (Quant). I'm pretty sure it's like that now. Did it include additional subject tests in the past?

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Polistra, @Jus' Sayin'...

    I took the GRE’s twice. Once in 1969 and once in 1970 when I decided to change my graduate field of study from math. When I sat for them there were a Verbal and a Quantitative aptitude test and one optional achievement test in your major or the field you intended to study in graduate school.

    There was an 800 cutoff on the SATs at that time so I was surprised to score 850 on the Verbal Aptitude. I thought there had been a mistake until a friend informed me that tests were supposedly normed with a mean score of 500 and an SD of 100. However, that can’t have been entirely correct as tables were provided to convert one’s GRE score to one’s percentile ranking compared with other test takers. Although getting a much higher score on my math achievement exam than my other achievement exam, I wound up at the 85th percentile on both.

    Back then the ETS also provided tests of language capability that were a convenient way of testing out of grad school language requirements. My grad school required reading proficiency in two languages besides English so this was a big break for me.

    • Replies: @gcochran
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    For a while in the 1970s, GRE went up to 900.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Jack Armstrong, @Dan Kurt

  176. @Liberty Mike
    Does Trump possess the oratorical brilliance that MLK exhibited?

    How about the ability to put together subject, predicate, and object without stumbling and bumbling? Is Trump even in the same universe as was King?

    Replies: @Icy Blast, @northeast, @Bernie

    Did Trump need Stanley Levinson to write his speeches?

  177. @Polistra
    @Acilius

    Agree. Not only did he not seem particularly dim, he's one of the century's greatest orators which isn't as easy as it may look to those who haven't tried.

    Replies: @TTSSYF, @anonsasmaug, @europeasant, @Bert, @Jus' Sayin'...

    Besides being a serial committer of sex crimes, King was also a serial plagiarist. Significant portions of his academic work, including his thesis, were plagiarized as were many portions of the better oratory which is usually attributed solely to King. To give the devil his due he was, like BO, both a talented public speaker and also adept at seeing and seizing the main chance. However, I’d attribute the latter talent to ruthless cunning rather than exceptional intelligence.

  178. @Buzz Mohawk
    @res

    This is all very interesting.

    Here we are, in a comment section heavily populated by +2, +3 SD people, ourselves mostly neither rare nor exceptional, and yet we are seriously discussing a famous public figure who was not just mediocre for the most part, but shockingly so. That mostly mediocre man now has a national holiday named after him, and people take it seriously. This really is clown world.

    This posting of Steve's is very, very revealing.

    Replies: @res, @Anonymouse

    I’m not too thrilled that the only Federal holiday dedicated to an American hero is that of Martin Luther King with Lincoln and Washington mixmastered into a generic President’s Day.

    OTOH, it cannot be denied that King was an exceptional man for his times, a pacifist following the example of Mahatma Gandhi in preaching non-violence and making witness to right a wrong, the evil system of segregation inflicted on black fellow-citizens. And he opposed the Vietnam War as well. And paid the price of dying for that cause. So he was a great cocksman – big deal. So he plagierized his Ph.D. dissertation – no biggie.

    • LOL: 3g4me
    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Anonymouse

    King, who apparently was not capable of thinking original thoughts (seriously) got his ideas about non-violent protest from Gandhi, who got his ideas for "Satyagraha" from Henry David Thoreau. I read those very same Thoreau writings in the log cabin I built in the woods forty years ago. (And I roughed it far more than Henry, and I was far more self-sufficient.) Does that mean I should have a national holiday named for me?

    King was only exceptional in the sense that he filled a role, like an actor on a stage. He gets the Oscar. Woo hoo.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @kaganovitch

  179. @JimDandy
    @Mike_from_SGV

    Low-IQs obviously lead to some truly retarded accusations of racism, but what explains the mainstream media's acceptance of such claims? From a current USA Today article:

    Fabricated claims debunked by fact-checkers targeting victims of police brutality George Floyd, Jacob Blake and Breonna Taylor remain on Facebook, despite pledges by the social media giant to support the Black community, a new investigation from human rights group Avaaz found.
    Insinuating racist stereotypes and tropes, the claims include that Floyd's death under the knee of a white police officer was staged, that Blake raped a 14-year-old and that Taylor was shot in bed while she was asleep (she was awake).


    So... the false narrative that was spread about Taylor being asleep in bed when she was shot was the work of white supremacists? Because black people being shot while they are sleeping at night is a racist trope? Like eating watermelon?

    The writer is Jessica Guynn, a white woman who apparently has a black baby. Wokeness causes brain damage.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2021/01/19/facebook-racist-claims-george-floyd-breonna-taylor-jacob-blake/4184064001/

    Replies: @Brutusale, @Richard B

    Low-IQs obviously lead to some truly retarded accusations of racism, but what explains the mainstream media’s acceptance of such claims? From a current USA Today article:

    Even Malcolm X had their number nearly 60 years ago. But they had no problem ignoring him. Meaning, this kind of behavior has been going on for that long (obviously a lot longer, but you get the idea).

    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8869214-the-white-liberal-is-the-worst-enemy-to-america-and

    All in a days work for the hostile elite who operate out of The Dark Triad. But it also serves The KKK, The Ku Klux Karens and the rest of the goodwhites who use POCs to feed their addiction to mood-altering through self-righteousness.

    This insanity isn’t going to stop itself. But it’s obviously more than happy to crush anything that stands in its way. Speaking of which, at this point. it’s kind of hard not to come to the conclusion that the human mind itself is literally insane.

    We’re definitely in no position to laugh at the dinosaurs for getting themselves extinct. After all, they lasted a lot longer than we have so far.

  180. Anonymous[224] • Disclaimer says:
    @Polistra
    @NJ Transit Commuter


    If I’ve learned anything in life, it’s that there is a positive correlation between success in life and IQ, but its not all that high.
     
    Yep. Intelligence helps up to a point, but it's no substitute for tenacity, self-discipline, and diplomacy.

    Steve, I think you demean yourself by snickering about someone’s low standardized test scores. Didn’t think anyone over 22 did that…
     
    Agree with this too. Not a good look, on today of all days. I'm sure it'll bring out the unreconstructed bigots among us though.

    Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Anon, @bomag, @George Taylor, @Anonymous

    Agree with this too. Not a good look, on today of all days. I’m sure it’ll bring out the unreconstructed bigots among us though.

    It’s not petty snickering about test scores. MLK is promoted not just as a moral paragon, but also as an elite intellectual leader.

    People are supposed to emulate and revere him because he was said to be morally, spiritually, and intellectually superior. Hence why his academic background is stressed, why he’s called “Dr.” MLK, etc.

    As it turns out, he shouldn’t have been awarded his PhD because of extensive plagiarism. And it should have been revoked after the plagiarism was exposed, like anyone else’s would have been. Also his speeches which were taken to be signs of his intellectual superiority turn to have been ghostwritten and or plagiarized. And his test scores appear to have been mediocre at best.

  181. @SND
    I remember I had a 101 degree fever which put me in the mood when I took the train up to Northwestern from the University of Chicago to take the Graduate Record Examination in philosophy in 1966. I got a perfect score but it was not 100, but rather 800. So things had changed by then. I thought the idea of a multiple choice test in philosophy was pretty darned funny. Hegel's philosophy can be best described as a) dialectical materialism; etc., etc.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Mr. Anon, @Buffalo Joe, @Desiderius

    SND, when my daughter applied to a NE university for a Doctorate In Psychology she had to interview with a board who asked her questions. Among the questions was “Who are the top three Psychologists in America?” She was befuddled? I told her she should have pointed to any three interviewers and said…”You and you and you.”

    • LOL: Hibernian
  182. @James Speaks
    350+270=620. From this table

    [https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/GREIQ.aspx]

    GRE=620 --> 80 IQ, which for a black is so-so. But MLK was disadvantaged by the education system then compared to today, so that surely adds 15 points, yielding IQ 95. A bit dull but not noticeably deficient in white society, yet above average among negroes. An IQ slightly above average makes for successful politicians. Plus, he had a dream.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Lot, @Autochthon, @Mike Tre, @Ed, @James Braxton, @Bardon Kaldian, @peterike, @Jack D, @Bernie, @Jonathan Mason

    I agree. I took the GRE exam about 30 years ago, when I was about 40, and I scored a maximum 800 on the verbal section, but then you have to look at the fact that the test is primarily aimed at callow, inarticulate, unread, science-majoring 20-year-olds who are applying to graduate schools.

    At the time that King took the test the test would have been normed against upper middle class whites, and he would have been raised through the segregated educational system, which would probably have been something similar to the educational system in Haiti today, where even the teachers don’t know very much.

    At that time there would have been radio but television would have been very much in its infancy, and the Kings probably didn’t have a TV in their home. At the time a lot of blacks who were talented on their skills with musical instruments and many great virtuoso musicians like Sonny Rollins and Milt Jackson were roughly contemporaries of King.

    But as others have said, he had a dream.

    And just as a point of interes regarding the IQ of Kings, had he been a member of the British royal family he would have been regarded as exceptionally bright.

  183. @Calvin Hobbes

    Source: CSKC, INP, Coretta Scott King Collection, In Private Hands
     
    I wonder why Coretta made the scores available.

    And I wonder whether the embarrassing FBI stuff on the G.L.O.A.T. (= Greatest Lifeform Of All Time) will actually be released in 2027. When 2027 comes around, I would not be the least bit surprised if it’s announced that it was all destroyed at some point, maybe before now.

    Replies: @additionalMike, @John Mansfield

    Agree, Mr. Hobbes.
    There will be a flood, or a power failure (fires are out of fashion), or a successful lawsuit by the family ($) to block release.
    If they are going to destroy it before now, they had better get a move on.
    Where is Sandy Berger when you need him?

    • Replies: @JerseyJeffersonian
    @additionalMike

    Well, we've got Jobama working the case for some short interval of time, and then Camelbama after that. So no problemo, ya feel me?

  184. @Henry's Cat
    @Anonymous

    Wouldn't be MLK Day without somebody reminding us of this.

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe

    Henry, people bring this up because MLK has not been canonized but deified. Much like michelle o, of the 100 magazine covers, is drop dead gorgeous and her husband is the best POTUS of all time. Their actual acomplishments don’t match the platitudes.

    • Replies: @Jonathan Mason
    @Buffalo Joe

    Obama probably was the best of a pretty mediocre bunch since world war II.

    Trump will probably go down as the worst of all time, with George W Bush on his heels, having left the country on its knees by the end of his 8 years.

    Clinton almost eliminated the federal deficit so you have to give the man credit for that, even though his taste in women was questionable.

    Really being president is an impossible job for which no one these days is suitably qualified. It is probably time to just leave the position vacant and save on the salary.

    Replies: @Jack Armstrong, @Mike Tre, @John Johnson

  185. Tha Kang!

  186. @Marty
    @Mike Tre

    An aspiring black plaintiff once came into my office. He’d been fired from a $14/hr. job as a forklift driver in a large glass bottling plant. I asked him why he was fired, and he said, “they don’t like black people there.” Since it was a union job, he couldn’t sue in court, but I was intrigued so I called his union rep. The rep told me the guy had been warned twice not to smoke dope on his lunch hour. He got caught a third time, and the union didn’t feel it should risk its credibility in the grievance process for this guy. When he came in the next time, I asked him about the lunch hour dope smoking, and he said, “they let the white guys do it.”

    Replies: @Gary in Gramercy, @Nicholas Stix, @Nicholas Stix, @additionalMike

    I have been involved in many cases just like that…if plaintiff can assemble enough White Guys/Gals Who Skated (known in the trade as “comparators”) he will have a prima facie case, and mebbe a settlement.

    • Replies: @Marty
    @additionalMike

    Oh sire. Bit here the point is - it was a warehouse full of glass bottles. Impaired forklift drivers = lost profits. So why would the company exempt whites?

  187. @Ghost of Bull Moose
    Fake name, fake degrees, fake speech, fake history.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Fake name, fake degrees, fake speech, fake history.

    Reinvented himself.

    Pretty much the American dream that he had then? Like Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Nat ‘King’ Cole, and Sun Ra who claimed he was born on another planet, even though his sister later claimed she saw his birth through a keyhole in Alabama.

    • LOL: BB753
    • Replies: @Jack Armstrong
    @Jonathan Mason



    Fake name, fake degrees, fake speech, fake history.
     
    Reinvented himself.
     
    Agreed. Nothing wrong with reinventing one’s self. I reinvented myself as an airplane pilot and then those %#&@ing feds tried to put me in jail!
  188. Here is a tale I call The Story of the No. 3 Pencil:

    I worked a couple years between undergraduate and graduate studies. Somewhere in the middle of that period I got around to attending to the GRE. I stopped by the local branch of the University of New Mexico, picked up a GRE booklet, and found I had missed the deadline for advance registration for the next exam. The closest exam site would be in Santa Fe, but since I would be a walk-in, I decided to test in Albuquerque to make sure a subject exam in engineering would be available. I called a friend in Rio Rancho about staying at her family’s home the night before, and she said that would be fine. Her mother was in the room with her as she was talking to me on the phone, so she was unable to tell me that she was putting together a surprise 25th anniversary party for her parents the night I was coming. When I arrived, the party was in full swing and was a lot of fun, but getting to sleep around midnight cut into the reason I had originally come, which was to get a couple more hours sleep than if I had made the 100-mile drive in the morning.

    The next surprise came in the morning when I started filling in the testing bubble sheet. I had switched to No. 3 pencils three years before this, and had forgotten the instruction for those test sheets since elementary school to use only a No. 2 pencil. I wondered about seeing if I could borrow a No. 2 pencil from the test administrators, but decided to just go with what I had and find out later if it mattered.

    It turned out that the crayon-like No. 2 pencil was not the only option for filling GRE bubbles. Results for the general and engineering subject exams came back very high, and I would be offered a fellowship to start a PhD program in fluid dynamics, the field I continue to work in.

    So, my advice to young people preparing for such tests has been: 1) go to a party the night before, and 2) use a No. 3 pencil.

    • Replies: @Rob McX
    @John Mansfield

    Interesting story. I personally find that taking less sleep can improve concentration, provided it's a once-off thing and you're not surviving on four hours a night for weeks on end.

  189. @Buffalo Joe
    @Henry's Cat

    Henry, people bring this up because MLK has not been canonized but deified. Much like michelle o, of the 100 magazine covers, is drop dead gorgeous and her husband is the best POTUS of all time. Their actual acomplishments don't match the platitudes.

    Replies: @Jonathan Mason

    Obama probably was the best of a pretty mediocre bunch since world war II.

    Trump will probably go down as the worst of all time, with George W Bush on his heels, having left the country on its knees by the end of his 8 years.

    Clinton almost eliminated the federal deficit so you have to give the man credit for that, even though his taste in women was questionable.

    Really being president is an impossible job for which no one these days is suitably qualified. It is probably time to just leave the position vacant and save on the salary.

    • Replies: @Jack Armstrong
    @Jonathan Mason


    Clinton almost eliminated the federal deficit so you have to give the man credit for that, even though his taste in women was questionable.
     
    Not this again.
    , @Mike Tre
    @Jonathan Mason

    “ Clinton almost eliminated the federal deficit so you have to give the man credit for that...”

    Well you get credit for eliminating your credibility.

    , @John Johnson
    @Jonathan Mason

    Obama probably was the best of a pretty mediocre bunch since world war II.

    Completely disagree. He was completely in over his head by the fact that he could be talked into anything by his financial advisors. The bank bailout was unbelievable. They actually borrowed money to pay banks that had cash on hand. The banks were sitting on properties while demanding that the government help them. It was truly a new low in corporate whoring.

    Clinton almost eliminated the federal deficit so you have to give the man credit for that, even though his taste in women was questionable.

    Well more accurately he sat on top of tech boom cash which nearly eliminated the deficit for a period and he didn't go on a spending spree.

    He does deserve credit however as most Democrats would be unable to resist the urge to spend. Clinton also deserves praise for welfare reform even though the liberal states have found ways around it.

    Really being president is an impossible job for which no one these days is suitably qualified.

    Oh plenty of people are qualified. The main problem is that you have to pick a side and be able to lie constantly. Technically competent leaders tend to not be good liars. They don't have to lie in the private sector to advance so they aren't used to it.

  190. @Dieter Kief
    @Anon

    So what? The black potential rises at times above the level which would have been expected from the IQ. Alright. Might have to do with rhythm and energy - and - - - - feeling (and all this melanin melatonin business we heard of lately....)? I never thought that Mississippi John Hurt was a rather bright guy - but he sure did write and perform a handful of great songs. If somebody told me, he had an IQ of 85, I wouldn't even bother to doubt that. A bunch of his songs (Maxwell Coffee Blues) are still touchy as - - - hell...at the crossroads...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fg20kQUMHY

    Replies: @Jack D

    Certain skills are just not tested and measured on IQ tests (and less correlated or not correlated at all with g) – musical talent, athletic ability, etc. Sure you can present examples of blacks who are highly talented in non-g loaded fields. There are tons and tons of black musicians and athletes. But can you name a black mathematician or physicist who outperforms his IQ score?

    The more g loaded the occupation, the closer your IQ score will predict your actual performance. That being said, certain savant types like Feynman did not score very high on general IQ type tests because they test things like knowledge of historical events regarding which Feynman had absolutely zero interest. OTOH, his math scores were among the highest ever seen.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Jack D

    Instructive diverge between true philosophy and mathematical aptitude. Wisdom DNE knowledge DNE intellect.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

  191. @BB753
    @SFG

    Out of the reformers and protestant theologians, Calvin was the most extreme revolutionary in the worldly and religious sense. A gnostic at heart.

    Replies: @anon

    • LOL: BB753
  192. @Anon
    @Peter Akuleyev


    Africans are also well known for their ability to learn and speak multiple languages fluently.
     
    I'm not sure where you got this idea. Africans are not known for being fluent polyglots.

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev

    You are trolling right?

    “The average Kenyan child speaks three languages. This figure is even higher amongst children in urban deprived areas who regularly speak five languages.”

    https://www.incultureparent.com/why-most-african-kids-are-multilingual/

    • Replies: @Anonymous
    @Peter Akuleyev


    “The average Kenyan child speaks three languages. This figure is even higher amongst children in urban deprived areas who regularly speak five languages.”
     
    So they speak 2 dialects of Swahili plus a form of broken English. That does not indicate fluent polyglotism and some special facility for languages. Much of the world can speak multiple dialects and some form and degree of broken English.

    Africans struggle with achieving full proficiency, fluency, and literacy in their first languages. Having basic conversational ability in or broken forms of more than one dialect or language doesn't make you a fluent polyglot.

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev

  193. anonymous[422] • Disclaimer says:

    Meanwhile, did Yellen suffer a past stroke? Often, when the subject can only speak out of one side of her mouth, along with labored speech patterns, it indicates brain damage due to a stroke.

    I only ask because I don’t think CNBC will…

  194. You losers. Somebody actually accomplishes something, unlike you, including you, Sailer, and all you can do is wang on about IQ.

    Proof positive IQ is bullshit.. High IQ means a babbling, insane autist.

    Not to mention that little Nigerian girls are smarter than you.

    And the fact that you don’t know what I’m talking about proves your massive inferiority. And I don’t mean complex. I mean you are actually inferior.

  195. All that gossip about King happens to all come from the same single, highly suspicious Swampish source. And of course, you suckers believe it. More typical hypocrisy. When the Swamp does something you don’t like, it’s bad, when it says something you like then it’s good, and right, and correct.

  196. A little off topic:
    The curious thing about blacks (so I’ve read, but I’m sure there will be people here that will correct me if I am wrong) is that black females outscore black males in every category of intelligence testing, whereas in every other group it’s a mix: females better in verbal, males better in quantitative, etc…
    This seems to support my unscientific observations of various organizations (government, universities corporations): there are many competent black women in administrative positions (HR, etc…) even if they are AA hires. In fact, their social skills seem to be superior to many white women and asians. Many times I would rather deal with the black women in organizations than the angry, embittered (often divorced) white women. They always seem more reasonable and wise to the ways of the world. They also have a much lower tolerance for BS compared to certain others. (I’ll leave it at that).

  197. @Calvin Hobbes

    Source: CSKC, INP, Coretta Scott King Collection, In Private Hands
     
    I wonder why Coretta made the scores available.

    And I wonder whether the embarrassing FBI stuff on the G.L.O.A.T. (= Greatest Lifeform Of All Time) will actually be released in 2027. When 2027 comes around, I would not be the least bit surprised if it’s announced that it was all destroyed at some point, maybe before now.

    Replies: @additionalMike, @John Mansfield

    Releasing FBI surveillance of anyone is an obscenity. The government spying is done with the purpose of investigating and prosecuting crimes, and if it is never publicly used for that purpose, never presented as evidence in a trial, then the files should be shredded.

  198. @danand
    @Peter Akuleyev

    “I would guess his IQ was in the 120 range.”

    Peter, that seems an entirely reasonable guess based off Dr.Kings GRE scores, for his time. King certainly made use of his sufficient intellect and great public demeanor. The real debate is over what he ultimately accomplished.

    “...Mike Douglas Show from 1967...”

    Thanks for the info on the MD show interview:

    https://youtu.be/9SfH2uMayks

    https://youtu.be/_FQIlE-WlM8

    https://youtu.be/tvB5a9_XJ3I


    Interesting tidbit, at least to me; both King and Obama felt they had to give up their White loves to maintain their “blackness”.

    “In his third year at Crozer, King became romantically involved with the White daughter of an immigrant German woman who worked as a cook in the cafeteria. King planned to marry her, but friends advised against it, saying that an interracial marriage would provoke animosity from both blacks and whites. King tearfully told a friend that he could not endure his mother's pain over the marriage and broke the relationship off six months later. He continued to have lingering feelings toward the woman he left; one friend was quoted as saying, "He never recovered."”

    Replies: @RadicalCenter, @Ian Smith, @anonsasmaug, @John Up North, @obwandiyag

    Martin Luther King, unlike myriads of so-called revolutionaries, actually accomplished something. He got legislation passed that changed society. In visible ways.

    This, by the way, is what is wrong with modern agitation movements. They don’t have concrete, achievable legislative goals–legislation being the only thing worth actually agitating for. All the rest is a lot of rhetoric and hot air.

    A story for you. A man from Philly, sick of the hypocrisies of his asshole-filled home country, went to the USSR in the 40s and stayed there until the 70s, when he returned.

    When he came back he was utterly amazed to see blacks walking all around the city, everywhere, even Wanamaker’s. When he left, he said, you would see nary a one.

    That is what changed. Blacks walking around anywhere they wanted. Not the world. But certainly more fair. And all because of Martin Luther King putting non-violent pressure on the US government.

    Can’t wait to hear the pea-brained, “high-IQ” responses. Let the imbecilities begin!

    • Replies: @Buffalo Joe
    @obwandiyag

    ob, so I take it that you think blm is a lot of hot air. I agree with you.

    , @John Johnson
    @obwandiyag

    Martin Luther King, unlike myriads of so-called revolutionaries, actually accomplished something. He got legislation passed that changed society. In visible ways.

    The problem people have with MLK is that the establishment has elevated him into a saint we are not supposed to question while statues of Churchhill are allowed to be torn down because he wasn't a perfect egalitarian.

    I really don't care about his test scores and even his plagiarism doesn't really bother me. Biden's plagiarism was much worse.

    But I do find it insulting that I'm supposed to worship a phony revered that once laughed and gave tips as someone raped a woman in front of him.

    He is the only character from the 60s that still has his FBI file sealed. The Feds in fact made a special exemption to the freedom of information act for him. It was cited that protecting his reputation was the reason but that would never have been granted for anyone White. The reality is that the establishment wants protect the Black Jesus.

    I went to public skoo and had sit through a month of MLK worship every year followed by Black history month. This worship session was led by liberals that encouraged us to "question authority" but that of course doesn't mean their authority or their Black Jesus. What they meant was questioning anything White. So sorry if I'm not filled with egalitarian fuzzies over this subject. If Nixon had laughed while someone raped a woman there would be movies about it and it would be brought up every single time anyone mentioned him.

    I've also had conservatives tell me we should keep lying about MLK for the sake of Blacks. So let the left tear down every historical figure but help them lie about MLK. Ok guys.

  199. @Anonymouse
    @Charles St. Charles

    I took the GRE in 1958. The test was in 2 parts: verbal and mathematical. AFAIK, a perfect score in each part was 800. I got a perfect score in the verbal part. In the mathematical part, I did fairly well. I don't remember that score number.

    Yes, my parents were jewish. But I didn't kill Him.

    Replies: @Foreign Expert, @Bardon Kaldian, @Cato, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @krustykurmudgeon, @Rich

    I am working from foggy memory here but I recall my GRE scores as 710 verbal, 590 Math.

    My GMAT score will be forever etched into my brain — 600 on the nose, 90th percentile. With my work experience plus truly spectacular verbal skills, plus stellar undergrad transcript, plus other graduate school work, I talked my way into a top 5 B school.

    Today I’d be on the outside looking in.

    • Replies: @Percy Gryce
    @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia

    No surprise that iSteve commenters can remember their GRE scores. (Mine from 1989: V=790, Q=700, A=780.)

  200. @Anonymouse
    @Buzz Mohawk

    I'm not too thrilled that the only Federal holiday dedicated to an American hero is that of Martin Luther King with Lincoln and Washington mixmastered into a generic President's Day.

    OTOH, it cannot be denied that King was an exceptional man for his times, a pacifist following the example of Mahatma Gandhi in preaching non-violence and making witness to right a wrong, the evil system of segregation inflicted on black fellow-citizens. And he opposed the Vietnam War as well. And paid the price of dying for that cause. So he was a great cocksman - big deal. So he plagierized his Ph.D. dissertation - no biggie.

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    King, who apparently was not capable of thinking original thoughts (seriously) got his ideas about non-violent protest from Gandhi, who got his ideas for “Satyagraha” from Henry David Thoreau. I read those very same Thoreau writings in the log cabin I built in the woods forty years ago. (And I roughed it far more than Henry, and I was far more self-sufficient.) Does that mean I should have a national holiday named for me?

    King was only exceptional in the sense that he filled a role, like an actor on a stage. He gets the Oscar. Woo hoo.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Similar to Trump

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    , @kaganovitch
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Does that mean I should have a national holiday named for me?

    I for one would support that.

  201. @SND
    I remember I had a 101 degree fever which put me in the mood when I took the train up to Northwestern from the University of Chicago to take the Graduate Record Examination in philosophy in 1966. I got a perfect score but it was not 100, but rather 800. So things had changed by then. I thought the idea of a multiple choice test in philosophy was pretty darned funny. Hegel's philosophy can be best described as a) dialectical materialism; etc., etc.

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Mr. Anon, @Buffalo Joe, @Desiderius

    The validity of such a test to measure what it purported to measure is being overestimated here by at least an order of magnitude. Growing up at the knee of an ambitious, successful old-time black preacher is akin to an inverse Kaplan class.

  202. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Anonymouse

    King, who apparently was not capable of thinking original thoughts (seriously) got his ideas about non-violent protest from Gandhi, who got his ideas for "Satyagraha" from Henry David Thoreau. I read those very same Thoreau writings in the log cabin I built in the woods forty years ago. (And I roughed it far more than Henry, and I was far more self-sufficient.) Does that mean I should have a national holiday named for me?

    King was only exceptional in the sense that he filled a role, like an actor on a stage. He gets the Oscar. Woo hoo.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @kaganovitch

    Similar to Trump

    • Replies: @Buzz Mohawk
    @Desiderius

    I actually think King handled his role better than Trump.

    Donald has been like an engine you are trying to tune and never can get the mixture right or the idle correct. I have a Stihl chainsaw that runs like him, and I hate it.

    If you don't know what I mean, then you aren't a man. (Just kidding.)

    Replies: @James Speaks, @Desiderius

  203. @Jack D
    @Dieter Kief

    Certain skills are just not tested and measured on IQ tests (and less correlated or not correlated at all with g) - musical talent, athletic ability, etc. Sure you can present examples of blacks who are highly talented in non-g loaded fields. There are tons and tons of black musicians and athletes. But can you name a black mathematician or physicist who outperforms his IQ score?

    The more g loaded the occupation, the closer your IQ score will predict your actual performance. That being said, certain savant types like Feynman did not score very high on general IQ type tests because they test things like knowledge of historical events regarding which Feynman had absolutely zero interest. OTOH, his math scores were among the highest ever seen.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Instructive diverge between true philosophy and mathematical aptitude. Wisdom DNE knowledge DNE intellect.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Desiderius

    IQ crowd seems to be eternally warring against Gardner's multiple intelligences; they assure us they have won- but I don't see the fruits of their supposed victory.

    Taken literally, Gardner was wrong.

    But, if we retain a common-sense definition of intelligence, he was mostly right. At least two types of intelligences, words (analytic-synthetic thinking) & numbers (math & similar areas) frequently barely intersect.

    Outside of their math-related fields - Newton, Gauss, Euler, Poincare, Dirac, Grothendieck, ... were below an average intellectually curious man who can articulate his thoughts in a logical manner.

    On the other hand- most of Aristotle, Plotinus, Erigena, Aquinas, Francis Bacon, Diderot, Hegel, Schopenhauer, Stirner, Nietzsche, Freud, Jung, Heidegger,  ....knew very little about mathematics, although some of them tried to learn its essentials through their mental lens.

    Replies: @dearieme, @Desiderius

  204. @Mike_from_SGV
    A lady from Texas once remarked to me, "I can understand why they wanted someone from their group to be a national icon, but was King they best they could do?"

    Replies: @Jake, @Seneca44, @Prester John, @The Alarmist, @JimDandy, @krustykurmudgeon, @anon

    exactly – Thurgood Marshall was in some ways more consequential (and smarter) than MLK ever was.

  205. @Anonymouse
    @Charles St. Charles

    I took the GRE in 1958. The test was in 2 parts: verbal and mathematical. AFAIK, a perfect score in each part was 800. I got a perfect score in the verbal part. In the mathematical part, I did fairly well. I don't remember that score number.

    Yes, my parents were jewish. But I didn't kill Him.

    Replies: @Foreign Expert, @Bardon Kaldian, @Cato, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @krustykurmudgeon, @Rich

    so you’re almost 85?

  206. @The Alarmist
    @Mike_from_SGV

    They could have gone with Malcom X.

    Here’s what Wikipedia claims was his means of escaping conscription for WW2:


    Summoned by the local draft board for military service in World War II, he feigned mental disturbance by rambling and declaring: "I want to be sent down South. Organize them nigger soldiers ... steal us some guns, and kill us [some] crackers". He was declared "mentally disqualified for military service".
     
    Which is highly creative ... in fact, utterly brilliant. Then again, there was this little detail, which most would assume is evidence of stupidity, though Joe Biden might consider it to be a sign of high intelligence:

    In 1946, he was arrested while picking up a stolen watch he had left at a shop for repairs....
     
    Hey, at least he had enough wit about him to go back and pick it up, unlike Hunter Biden.

    Replies: @krustykurmudgeon, @Sid F

    I’m of the view that John Lewis was the “understudy” in case a scandal blew up in MLK’s face.

  207. @SND
    @Steve Sailer

    Lawyers are the best at talking out of all four sides of their mouth. By the way, when I was 13 in 1958 my mother took me to a church in the negro section of our rust belt town to hear Mahalia Jackson sing & MLK speak. He never showed so I got to hear Jackson sing all night which was pretty great. In retrospect, King probably got hung up with his special activities in a motel room somewhere. Then when I was 18 I went to hear King's speech at the March on Washington. My biggest impression was not I Had a Dream. It was being ashamed by the bizarre voice of a guy named Bob Dylan when he sang William Zanzinger killed poor Hattie Carroll. As usual the negro singers were really good. I thought "this bodes ill for us white people."

    Replies: @Dieter Kief, @Jack Armstrong, @AceDeuce, @Stan

    “Life is like a box of chocolates. You never……….. ”

  208. Anonymous[240] • Disclaimer says:
    @Peter Akuleyev
    @Anon

    You are trolling right?

    "The average Kenyan child speaks three languages. This figure is even higher amongst children in urban deprived areas who regularly speak five languages."

    https://www.incultureparent.com/why-most-african-kids-are-multilingual/

    Replies: @Anonymous

    “The average Kenyan child speaks three languages. This figure is even higher amongst children in urban deprived areas who regularly speak five languages.”

    So they speak 2 dialects of Swahili plus a form of broken English. That does not indicate fluent polyglotism and some special facility for languages. Much of the world can speak multiple dialects and some form and degree of broken English.

    Africans struggle with achieving full proficiency, fluency, and literacy in their first languages. Having basic conversational ability in or broken forms of more than one dialect or language doesn’t make you a fluent polyglot.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    @Anonymous

    So they speak 2 dialects of Swahili plus a form of broken English.

    You really have no idea what you are talking about, maybe stop now.

  209. In other news of standardized testing, the College Board abruptly discontinued SAT subject tests and the SAT essay.

    Talented young Whites and Asians will still be able to stand out by, er, uh, …

    iSteve fave David Coleman makes a guest appearance.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @anon


    In other news of standardized testing, the College Board abruptly discontinued SAT subject tests and the SAT essay.
     
    I'd think that the essay, which has come and gone before and has never been a core part of the SAT, is too much of a pain to try to deal with in a pandemic. And the subject matter tests ... nobody's even heard of them. Are they AP tests for dumb people, or AP tests for smart people stuck in dumb schools, or what? I doubt there was much demand for them.

    Reliable, accurate, cheat-resistant over-the-internet SAT test technology is where they need to concentrate their efforts. We might be seeing innovations like dynamic, random-order, timed questions, and multiple test sessions over months. I watched a fascinating YouTube video on how Chess.com catches cheaters. One trick is they detect really obvious moves and if there is a delay, they figure the player is cheating. For instance, if a higher point piece is in danger in a situation where it's obvious to anyone that it should be captured, yet the player takes five seconds to do it, suspicion is raised. This kind of software will be a growth area.
  210. @Desiderius
    @Buzz Mohawk

    Similar to Trump

    Replies: @Buzz Mohawk

    I actually think King handled his role better than Trump.

    Donald has been like an engine you are trying to tune and never can get the mixture right or the idle correct. I have a Stihl chainsaw that runs like him, and I hate it.

    If you don’t know what I mean, then you aren’t a man. (Just kidding.)

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @Buzz Mohawk

    King said the right thing at the right time. It appears he wasn't original.

    Trump said the right things at the right time. He was an original, but he also proved that his message, flawed as he is, is a message the majority of productive Americans want to hear. He was populist light. Our job is to find populist heavy.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    , @Desiderius
    @Buzz Mohawk

    He’s the quintessential Boomercon. Made by and for a world that no longer exists that foolishly forswore the timeless and eternal. A useful illustration of the limitations of Norman Vincent Pealeism.

    Of course the regnant nihilism that swallowed him whole is far worse but that’s neither here nor there.

  211. @Polistra
    @Anonymous

    When I took it in the 1980s it had three scores IIRC. Verbal, Quant, and Analytical. I thank God for this test because while my college record was very good it wasn't stellar enough by itself to get me into a top grad school. The director of my grad program made reference to my scores after I arrived there.

    Something similar had happened to me earlier, with the SAT. My high school record was decent, but I really needed the SAT scores to get into a good college. I wish people would quit knocking them! Oh, what am I saying? That was 20 years ago. They're history now.

    Replies: @International Jew, @fitzhamilton, @Percy Gryce

    The SAT and GRE were both measures of how much essential mathematics and reading skill you’ve picked up, which correlates directly to IQ. The only way you’d do well is reading deeply and broadly for a decade, and paying attention and actually acquiring the basic skill sets in Algebra I and geometry.

    The only people who read anything extensively beyond pop fiction are those who possess abstract intelligence. That’s why the SAT and GRE – which in the verbal section were vocabulary and reading skill tests – correlated so strongly to IQ.

    High school and to a less degree college grades – grades in general – are about hopping obediently through hoops, regular attendance, doing homework, pleasing the teacher, and good test preparation.. Female skill sets that do not correlate strongly with IQ.

    • Agree: Polistra
  212. @Alice in Wonderland
    @ValleyBoyPhD


    if the GRE shows MLK was a verbal mediocrity it suggests there was something wrong with the GRE, at least in 1951.
     
    Nah, it just doesn't test his skill, oratory.

    Plenty of people with high verbal on paper cannot do public speaking.

    The high literature score shows he must have been fairly well read on whatever it tested. It really only makes sense to consider scores in the person's area because the GRE math section includes test takers who are seeking graduate study in math and sciences. It would be pretty surprising to see high math from even smart humanities students just due to lack of exposure and practice.

    Finally, the fact that King did do well on at least one section, literature, shows he wasn't truly dim and could learn stuff he was interested in. Had he done poorly on every section, then it would look much worse.

    Replies: @Muggles

    Many do not know the term ‘homiletics’ which refers to the art of preaching and writing sermons.

    I think nearly all or all divinity schools teach this to one degree or another. Some of the airy-fairy ones may not emphasize it if they are all about abstract theology/writings but for a professional preacher this skill is essential.

    Basically it is Public Speaking but with a religious teaching/inspiration objective. Some preachers excel at this and King was among the best, though he had a lot of experience also.

    I’ve noticed that many higher IQ blacks, more talented and perhaps energetic, end up as ministers and preachers rather than STEM professions or harder professional disciplines. They can make good money at it, there are many openings since blacks go to church more often than others, and can get decently paid. There are perks. (Funeral directors are another common career path.)

    For whites not familiar with ministers/preachers who can actually hold an audience, like a good comedian or entertainer, King’s performances were novel and remarkable. Not so for others.

    This does take talent and a performer’s personality traits. Of course being a skill, you can glibly preach nonsense and many will swoon. Adolph H was quite a speaker (rather angry by modern tastes) but could sway an audience.

    To be good at public speaking you must learn and practice, have natural skill also. Being smarter than most of your audience is also very helpful. Personality projection, etc.

  213. @Ian Smith
    @danand

    I’ve not seen any evidence that Obama dated any black women before Michelle. And I’m sure she’s aware of his fondness for Becky B*tches.

    https://www.firstpost.com/world/photos-barack-obama-with-denmarks-pm-helle-thorning-schmidt-1280805.html

    Replies: @Muggles

    I’ve not seen any evidence that Obama dated any black women before Michelle

    The real question is how many white men did he date?

    • LOL: Rob McX
    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Muggles

    Not that I care, but I am inclined to think that all the talk about Obama's gaydom is fiction.

    Certainly there were homos/ephebophiles in history (Plato, Caravaggio, Tchaikovsky, Proust), but from what I know, I would say that the impossible company consisting of Alexander the Great, Caesar, Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo (probably), Shakespeare, Schubert, Richard Francis Burton, Errol Flynn, Cary Grant, Richard Gere, ... were all straight, some of them being asexual.

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix, @Ian Smith

  214. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Desiderius

    I actually think King handled his role better than Trump.

    Donald has been like an engine you are trying to tune and never can get the mixture right or the idle correct. I have a Stihl chainsaw that runs like him, and I hate it.

    If you don't know what I mean, then you aren't a man. (Just kidding.)

    Replies: @James Speaks, @Desiderius

    King said the right thing at the right time. It appears he wasn’t original.

    Trump said the right things at the right time. He was an original, but he also proved that his message, flawed as he is, is a message the majority of productive Americans want to hear. He was populist light. Our job is to find populist heavy.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @James Speaks

    Philosopher kings aren’t a thing. Original ideas don’t matter in a leader. They were both originals character-wise, which does, who tried to help their people and ended up leaving them worse off than when they started (Great Society/whatever this fresh hell is).

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @James Speaks

  215. Now- this is interesting ….

    https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/martin-luther-king-robert-kennedy-and-modern-cancel-culture/

    Martin Luther King, Robert Kennedy and modern cancel culture

    The night before he was murdered, Martin Luther King traveled to Memphis, Tennessee to rally support for striking Black sanitation workers. On the evening of April 3, 1968, at Mason Temple Church of God in Christ, King spoke for the last time. His final words were so stirring they resonate to this day. Endlessly replayed, they immortalize the tragedy of what the United States suffered when an assassin shot him the next day.

    “Because I’ve been to the mountaintop… and I’ve seen the promised land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people will get to the promised land..”

    While not as fully remembered, the start of King’s final speech also was fascinating, and vintage King. The great civil rights leader began by telling the crowd how he would like to take a trip through history.

    “As you know, if I were standing at the beginning of time,…and the Almighty said to me, ‘Martin Luther King, which age would you like to live in?’ – I would take my mental flight to Egypt…I wouldn’t stop there. I would move onto Greece and take my mind to Mount Olympus. And I would see Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, Euripides and Aristophanes assembled around the Parthenon as they discussed the great and eternal issues of reality.”
    …………….

  216. @Anonymous
    Completely unrelated, but a very cool use of photo-generative AI:

    Photoreal Roman Emperor Project
    https://voshart.medium.com/photoreal-roman-emperor-project-236be7f06c8f

    Replies: @Lucius Somesuch, @ChrisZ, @Muggles

    The problem with this AI Roman Emperor project is that according to most scholars (all in fact) virtually none of the statues or carvings of these guys was done from life.

    Yes there were some that incorporated accurate descriptions to some extent, but all ancient ruler images were done for propaganda reasons. I.e. Stalin was short and ugly, with thinning hair, not like the Pravda photos.

    While some of these bore some resemblance, if you were a Roman Emperor your venerated imagery would like like a Photoshopped pr photo, not like you really were.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @Muggles

    First of all, it looks like they made about half the Emperors black or blackish. I don't think the Emperors would have been cool with that. Woke AI?

    Typically the Emperor would have an official portrait done for coinage at the beginning of their rule and the image would stay the same even as the Emperor aged so by the end of their rule they'd look nothing like their youthful portrait.

  217. @Peter Akuleyev
    @candid_observer

    Africans are also well known for their ability to learn and speak multiple languages fluently. A skill that Americans often confuse with high intelligence. In fact, some very high IQ aspergery people I know seem incapable of mastering even one foreign language, suggesting mimicry probably plays a significant role in language acquisition.

    Replies: @utu, @Anon, @JohnnyWalker123

    Languages have rules of grammar that you must understand. Languages have subjects, adjectives, verbs, and adverbs. Languages have large numbers of vocabulary words.

    If you can fluently speak a language, that’s evidence of high IQ.

    Here’s one way to separate mimicry from verbal IQ. Have a discussion/argument with a person. If they can craft unique points in response to your points, then they likely have a high IQ. If they keep repeating the same thing over and over without any ability to improvise anything new, then they’re just mimicking what they’ve heard in the past.

    Improvisation of verbal arguments is evidence of strong verbal ability.

    • Replies: @Peter Akuleyev
    @JohnnyWalker123

    If you can fluently speak a language, that’s evidence of high IQ.

    I think we are just talking past each other. You are not defining "fluent" the way a linguist would define it. You are talking about "eloquence." It does not require high IQ to learn to speak a foreign language with almost no real grammatical mistakes, no hesitation and in such a way that native speakers can easily understand you. Especially if you start as a child. I would call that "fluent", and millions of Africans can do that in three, four or five languages, simply because they are exposed to multiple spoken languages from a young age.

    Even a lot of 100 IQ American blacks are arguably "bilingual" because they can switch easily between standard American English and Black Vernacular.

    I agree with your mimicry point. My point was that a lot of people are impressed with African linguistic skills, but for the wrong reasons. Being a polyglot is not prima facie evidence of high IQ. And, again, I know many people with very high IQs who seem incable of learning how to speak foreign languages, although, notably, they can quickly learn to read them. People with high IQs are good at recognizing patterns and making intuitive leaps, which helps decoding a text in a foreign language. People with high IQs are not necessarily good mimics - so resist the different accent, gestures or intonation that speaking a foreign language well requires.

    If you drop a Nigerian and a high IQ American graduate student into China, within three months the Nigerian would be perfectly capable of going to night clubs, making jokes, selling drugs and meeting girls in Mandarin. And would be illiterate. The American would still be struggling to produce basic phrases with the correct tones but would probably have learned 700 characters, could decode most street signs and be able to explain the various meanings of the particle "le".

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    , @Jack D
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Language (any language) is incredibly complex as you say, with all sorts of rules and memorization required, and yet any four year old and all but the most severely retarded adults speak their native language with great fluency and adherence to the rules of grammar. The reason for this is that humans are pre-programmed to pick up language (language in general and not any particular language). Pick up and not learn - 1 year olds don't sit in a class room and study conjugations and tenses. But after puberty the innate language learning capability is pruned away from our brains as something that is no longer needed from an evolutionary perspective and after that you have to learn a new language the same way you learn any other new skill and this is very difficult.

    Some societies are bilingual or even trilingual for historical reasons (usually involving conquest - you have the language of the locals and then the language of the conquerors) so that children must learn two or three languages growing up instead of just one. In America with its many immigrants it's very common for children to speak the language of their parents as well as English. This is no particular sign of intelligence, it's just a reflection of the innate ability of children to learn language.

    So by comparing how difficult it is for Kenyan children to learn to speak Kikuyu and Swahili and English to how difficult it would be for you as an adult to learn these 3 languages you are making a false comparison.

    Replies: @Truth

  218. @Jonathan Mason
    @Buffalo Joe

    Obama probably was the best of a pretty mediocre bunch since world war II.

    Trump will probably go down as the worst of all time, with George W Bush on his heels, having left the country on its knees by the end of his 8 years.

    Clinton almost eliminated the federal deficit so you have to give the man credit for that, even though his taste in women was questionable.

    Really being president is an impossible job for which no one these days is suitably qualified. It is probably time to just leave the position vacant and save on the salary.

    Replies: @Jack Armstrong, @Mike Tre, @John Johnson

    Clinton almost eliminated the federal deficit so you have to give the man credit for that, even though his taste in women was questionable.

    Not this again.

  219. @Muggles
    @Ian Smith


    I’ve not seen any evidence that Obama dated any black women before Michelle
     
    The real question is how many white men did he date?

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    Not that I care, but I am inclined to think that all the talk about Obama’s gaydom is fiction.

    Certainly there were homos/ephebophiles in history (Plato, Caravaggio, Tchaikovsky, Proust), but from what I know, I would say that the impossible company consisting of Alexander the Great, Caesar, Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo (probably), Shakespeare, Schubert, Richard Francis Burton, Errol Flynn, Cary Grant, Richard Gere, … were all straight, some of them being asexual.

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
    @Bardon Kaldian

    The Sham Life of Barack and Michelle Obama vs. the Sordid Reality
    https://nicholasstixuncensored.blogspot.com/2021/01/the-sham-life-of-barack-and-michelle.html

    , @Ian Smith
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Re: Richard Francis Burton, there wasn’t any gash between Mogadishu and Mumbai that was safe from that cunning linguist. One of my all time heroes!

  220. @Anon

    Anybody remember how GREs were scored 70 years ago?
     
    Translation: Can you guys Google this for me?

    https://www.prepscholar.com/gre/blog/old-gre-to-new-gre-score-conversion-charts/

    Replies: @Steve Sailer, @Anonymous

    If you read the link you gave, you’ll see it refers to a 2011 change. Since the categories differed in 1951 from either pre or after 2011, it seems clear that the test has had more than one change.

    • Replies: @Anon
    @Anonymous


    If you read the link you gave, you’ll see it refers to a 2011 change. Since the categories differed in 1951 from either pre or after 2011, it seems clear that the test has had more than one change.
     
    So please Google the answer for me.

    I'm waiting. Get off your ass and deliver.
  221. @Jonathan Mason
    @Ghost of Bull Moose


    Fake name, fake degrees, fake speech, fake history.
     
    Reinvented himself.

    Pretty much the American dream that he had then? Like Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Nat 'King' Cole, and Sun Ra who claimed he was born on another planet, even though his sister later claimed she saw his birth through a keyhole in Alabama.

    Replies: @Jack Armstrong

    Fake name, fake degrees, fake speech, fake history.

    Reinvented himself.

    Agreed. Nothing wrong with reinventing one’s self. I reinvented myself as an airplane pilot and then those %#&@ing feds tried to put me in jail!

  222. Do they talk about Jesus, or just stick to politics and activism, with Jesus as their admirer? I knew there was a reason I don’t listen to them.
    Hitler kept it political and he didn’t get his start doing a hanky-panky hustle in a house of God.

  223. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Desiderius

    I actually think King handled his role better than Trump.

    Donald has been like an engine you are trying to tune and never can get the mixture right or the idle correct. I have a Stihl chainsaw that runs like him, and I hate it.

    If you don't know what I mean, then you aren't a man. (Just kidding.)

    Replies: @James Speaks, @Desiderius

    He’s the quintessential Boomercon. Made by and for a world that no longer exists that foolishly forswore the timeless and eternal. A useful illustration of the limitations of Norman Vincent Pealeism.

    Of course the regnant nihilism that swallowed him whole is far worse but that’s neither here nor there.

  224. @Charles St. Charles

    Anybody remember how GREs were scored 70 years ago?
     
    Nope, but my offhand assumption is that they were more difficult.

    However they were scored, these are unimpressive, in terms of where he falls in percentiles.

    But then again, Hitler and Mussolini were probably not great test takers either, and MLK is part of that cohort of, you know, charismatic orators.

    Replies: @Anonymouse, @George, @John Regan, @Desiderius

    Nobody can hold a candle in the field of test bombing to the OG Winnie Churchill.

  225. @Jake
    @Mike_from_SGV

    King was below average in everything but ability to rattle off speeches that made sense to Liberals and were recognized by Leftists as serving all of their interests. King was an actor, and not a particularly bright actor. Approximately one-third of his dissertation is plagiarized, and most of the plagiarized passages are not paraphrases; they are direct quotes, or very nearly direct quotes, that King presents as his ideas, his assessments.

    King plagiarized like an average intelligence 5th grade white boy.

    King was picked by the Liberal white Elite to be the replacement for Booker T. Washington, who was truly intelligent and whose core was largely conservative. King was picked precisely because he was a vain puppet waiting to be promoted and because he was, even early on, easily blackmailed because he intended to copulate with every female he found attractive, including teenagers.

    Very quickly King's inner circle featured not merely avowed Socialists and well known fellow travelers of Marxists, but well known homosexuals, including a pederast or two (for example, see James Baldwin and Bayard Rustin).

    Replies: @Hans, @JimB, @Truth

    Yeah, but you’re a world renown genius, and which one of you has a federal holiday, again?

  226. @Mike Tre
    @candid_observer

    This idea that blacks have a high verbal fluency as a group is one of the biggest myths I’ve ever seen propagated. I work and have worked with countless negroes as I am a teamster (the one and only trade negroes have any representation to speak of) in Chicago and the surrounding area. For the most part, these people cannot get three words out of their mouths before an ear splitting “UHHHHH” or three is to be heard as they attempt to string a complete and coherent sentence together.

    Worth mentioning is their total obliteration of the English language as it is, with their “dats, gibs, norfs, soufs, fidd’ns, dindus and nuffins” as well as dropping the last consonant from pretty much every word they speak.

    Can some of them learn to speak well? Sure. A bear can also be taught to ride a bicycle.

    And sorry negrophiliacs, rap doesn’t count.

    Replies: @Truth

    And sorry negrophiliacs, rap doesn’t count.

  227. @The Alarmist
    @Mike_from_SGV

    They could have gone with Malcom X.

    Here’s what Wikipedia claims was his means of escaping conscription for WW2:


    Summoned by the local draft board for military service in World War II, he feigned mental disturbance by rambling and declaring: "I want to be sent down South. Organize them nigger soldiers ... steal us some guns, and kill us [some] crackers". He was declared "mentally disqualified for military service".
     
    Which is highly creative ... in fact, utterly brilliant. Then again, there was this little detail, which most would assume is evidence of stupidity, though Joe Biden might consider it to be a sign of high intelligence:

    In 1946, he was arrested while picking up a stolen watch he had left at a shop for repairs....
     
    Hey, at least he had enough wit about him to go back and pick it up, unlike Hunter Biden.

    Replies: @krustykurmudgeon, @Sid F

    “highly creative” ?

    He was just being honest.

  228. @James Speaks
    @Buzz Mohawk

    King said the right thing at the right time. It appears he wasn't original.

    Trump said the right things at the right time. He was an original, but he also proved that his message, flawed as he is, is a message the majority of productive Americans want to hear. He was populist light. Our job is to find populist heavy.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Philosopher kings aren’t a thing. Original ideas don’t matter in a leader. They were both originals character-wise, which does, who tried to help their people and ended up leaving them worse off than when they started (Great Society/whatever this fresh hell is).

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Desiderius


    Original ideas don’t matter in a leader.
     
    Sometimes they do. Gustavus Adolphus was one. He was the classic "idea man" but was smart enough to rely on someone who can turn thought into reality.



    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axel_Oxenstierna
    , @James Speaks
    @Desiderius

    Nay. Trump is a walking Greek tragedy, smart enough to push the right buttons, too narcissistic to take sage advice. (Of course, in a Greek tragedy, the hero takes the sage advice but misunderstands it and ends up doing the one thing he was supposed to avoid.)

    King is a was. Trump is an is. He is quite current, else Pelosi/Clinton crowd would not be shrieking like Harpies in the wind to stop him. I feel an epic coming on. I digress.

    One hopes that Trump will recognize the power of his name brand. He can draw crowds of hundreds of thousands, but what to do with them? I would suggest repeating the need for immigration control, deregulation, and staying out of land wars in Asia, minor or main. If he does that, then the tragedy become a comedy.

    One more thing: 'tis better to be Baroque than woke.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Desiderius, @dearieme

  229. The MLK data speaks for itself. And we can be confident that Raphael Warnock’s IQ is right up there in double digits.

  230. @Known Fact
    @Mr. Anon

    If Jean-Paul Sartre leaves Pleasantville at 9 AM, traveling at 45 miles per hour ...

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    If Jean-Paul Sartre leaves Pleasantville at 9 AM, traveling at 45 miles per hour …

    Sartre was published in Reader’s Digest? Paramour Simone’s The Second Sex was a bestseller, perhaps more so here than in France, but it’s hard to imagine RD digesting that, either.

    A future Queen of Sweden, Princess Estelle (second in line at the moment) may have been named for a native of Pleasantville.

    Her Royal Highness, the Duchess of Östergötland’s first cousin four times removed (by marriage) became a countess in her adopted land. The Countess’s husband, a diplomat, was assassinated in 1948. You can guess where.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @Reg Cæsar

    The Countess’s husband, a diplomat, was assassinated in 1948. You can guess where.

    Israel?

  231. @Jus' Sayin'...
    @Anonymous

    I took the GRE's twice. Once in 1969 and once in 1970 when I decided to change my graduate field of study from math. When I sat for them there were a Verbal and a Quantitative aptitude test and one optional achievement test in your major or the field you intended to study in graduate school.

    There was an 800 cutoff on the SATs at that time so I was surprised to score 850 on the Verbal Aptitude. I thought there had been a mistake until a friend informed me that tests were supposedly normed with a mean score of 500 and an SD of 100. However, that can't have been entirely correct as tables were provided to convert one's GRE score to one's percentile ranking compared with other test takers. Although getting a much higher score on my math achievement exam than my other achievement exam, I wound up at the 85th percentile on both.

    Back then the ETS also provided tests of language capability that were a convenient way of testing out of grad school language requirements. My grad school required reading proficiency in two languages besides English so this was a big break for me.

    Replies: @gcochran

    For a while in the 1970s, GRE went up to 900.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @gcochran

    Lol. I guess Volcker’s 19% prime rate put a quick end to that too.

    , @Jack Armstrong
    @gcochran

    The Spinal Tap effect.

    , @Dan Kurt
    @gcochran

    I took the GREs in 1963. Verbal top score was 800 as was Quantitative (Math) and both were truncated. My GRE achievement (field of study) test was scored up to 970.

    Dan Kurt

  232. @Desiderius
    @James Speaks

    Philosopher kings aren’t a thing. Original ideas don’t matter in a leader. They were both originals character-wise, which does, who tried to help their people and ended up leaving them worse off than when they started (Great Society/whatever this fresh hell is).

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @James Speaks

    Original ideas don’t matter in a leader.

    Sometimes they do. Gustavus Adolphus was one. He was the classic “idea man” but was smart enough to rely on someone who can turn thought into reality.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axel_Oxenstierna

  233. @Steven Carr
    @Henry's Cat

    On the big scale, intelligence is overwhelmingly environmental.

    Like skin colour, it is determined by the environment if you consider long enough stretches of time.

    Replies: @Henry's Cat

    By that logic, the environment ultimately determines itself, which is either very profound or very trivial.

  234. @Desiderius
    @Jack D

    Instructive diverge between true philosophy and mathematical aptitude. Wisdom DNE knowledge DNE intellect.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    IQ crowd seems to be eternally warring against Gardner’s multiple intelligences; they assure us they have won- but I don’t see the fruits of their supposed victory.

    Taken literally, Gardner was wrong.

    But, if we retain a common-sense definition of intelligence, he was mostly right. At least two types of intelligences, words (analytic-synthetic thinking) & numbers (math & similar areas) frequently barely intersect.

    Outside of their math-related fields – Newton, Gauss, Euler, Poincare, Dirac, Grothendieck, … were below an average intellectually curious man who can articulate his thoughts in a logical manner.

    On the other hand- most of Aristotle, Plotinus, Erigena, Aquinas, Francis Bacon, Diderot, Hegel, Schopenhauer, Stirner, Nietzsche, Freud, Jung, Heidegger,  ….knew very little about mathematics, although some of them tried to learn its essentials through their mental lens.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @dearieme
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Nietzsche, Freud, Jung, Heidegger

    Two of them were charlatans. By which I mean at least two.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    , @Desiderius
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I think that Steve’s point is that things might have worked out better for blacks (and ultimately us) if they (and thus we given the present bizarre dispensation) had chosen leaders loaded with a little more g.

    That he brought other talents and virtues to the table or that g expresses itself in various ways is somewhat beside the point.

    In case anyone is missing it the point is aimed squarely and correctly at the backers of the erstwhile Mr. Kendi, many of whom have people who read Steve for them.

  235. @Bernie
    @James Speaks

    Muhammed Ali also had a very low IQ (from his Army entrance tests). I see from the comments that many wonder, "Why are such funny, engaging people and stirring orators so low in intelligence? Must be something wrong with IQ tests."

    I look at it the other way. Making stirring speeches - complete with a fake accent, alternating cadences and loud, booming outbursts at the right time - is not really a sign of intelligence. I wont even get into who wrote his speeches. Same with being a funny jokester who can rhyme and engage in amusing banter with interviewers.

    Replies: @Thoth

    Charles Manson was functionally illiterate. but according to those whohe came in contact with, Neil Young, Terry Melcher, et al, he was very witty and could come up with funny wordplayas well as writing decent lyrics and music .

    He was also giffted with enough gab to form a large harem of young girls

    IQ tests don’t pick up every intelligence

  236. @Buzz Mohawk
    @Anonymouse

    King, who apparently was not capable of thinking original thoughts (seriously) got his ideas about non-violent protest from Gandhi, who got his ideas for "Satyagraha" from Henry David Thoreau. I read those very same Thoreau writings in the log cabin I built in the woods forty years ago. (And I roughed it far more than Henry, and I was far more self-sufficient.) Does that mean I should have a national holiday named for me?

    King was only exceptional in the sense that he filled a role, like an actor on a stage. He gets the Oscar. Woo hoo.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @kaganovitch

    Does that mean I should have a national holiday named for me?

    I for one would support that.

  237. @Steve Sailer
    @SND

    I would imagine the best philosophy prospects could come up with an argument for why each of the four choices on a philosophy multiple choice test is right. Maybe the LSAT should be like that too.

    Replies: @SND, @Desiderius

    I failed my first driver’s test twice this way.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @Desiderius

    Was it the written, or the road test?

    Replies: @Desiderius

  238. @gcochran
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    For a while in the 1970s, GRE went up to 900.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Jack Armstrong, @Dan Kurt

    Lol. I guess Volcker’s 19% prime rate put a quick end to that too.

  239. @Desiderius
    @James Speaks

    Philosopher kings aren’t a thing. Original ideas don’t matter in a leader. They were both originals character-wise, which does, who tried to help their people and ended up leaving them worse off than when they started (Great Society/whatever this fresh hell is).

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar, @James Speaks

    Nay. Trump is a walking Greek tragedy, smart enough to push the right buttons, too narcissistic to take sage advice. (Of course, in a Greek tragedy, the hero takes the sage advice but misunderstands it and ends up doing the one thing he was supposed to avoid.)

    King is a was. Trump is an is. He is quite current, else Pelosi/Clinton crowd would not be shrieking like Harpies in the wind to stop him. I feel an epic coming on. I digress.

    One hopes that Trump will recognize the power of his name brand. He can draw crowds of hundreds of thousands, but what to do with them? I would suggest repeating the need for immigration control, deregulation, and staying out of land wars in Asia, minor or main. If he does that, then the tragedy become a comedy.

    One more thing: ’tis better to be Baroque than woke.

    • Replies: @kaganovitch
    @James Speaks

    One hopes that Trump will recognize the power of his name brand.

    I think you can rest assured that a guy who has slapped his name on everything from casinos to dress shirts, knows a thing or two about name branding power.

    Replies: @James Speaks

    , @Desiderius
    @James Speaks

    Like I said the day I declared Biden dead was the day that he became the anointed one, but I don’t see how Trump survives this. It’s about far more than mere Democrats.

    Did you see the anti-Trump boat parade the Navy brass threw off the West Coast today? This is the military industrial complex Declaring Independence from the American voter.

    Replies: @James Speaks

    , @dearieme
    @James Speaks

    ’tis better to be Baroque than woke

    Does that mean that Baroque and woke rhyme in American? I didn't know that.

    Replies: @Jack D

  240. @Reg Cæsar
    @Known Fact


    If Jean-Paul Sartre leaves Pleasantville at 9 AM, traveling at 45 miles per hour …
     
    Sartre was published in Reader's Digest? Paramour Simone's The Second Sex was a bestseller, perhaps more so here than in France, but it's hard to imagine RD digesting that, either.

    A future Queen of Sweden, Princess Estelle (second in line at the moment) may have been named for a native of Pleasantville.

    Her Royal Highness, the Duchess of Östergötland's first cousin four times removed (by marriage) became a countess in her adopted land. The Countess's husband, a diplomat, was assassinated in 1948. You can guess where.

    Replies: @kaganovitch

    The Countess’s husband, a diplomat, was assassinated in 1948. You can guess where.

    Israel?

  241. @Desiderius
    @Steve Sailer

    I failed my first driver’s test twice this way.

    Replies: @James Speaks

    Was it the written, or the road test?

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @James Speaks

    Written

    It would take a whole nother level of autism to faili the driving part that way.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

  242. @dearieme
    @Steve Sailer

    I remember your comparison of the IQs of W and John Kerry, as deduced from their results in exams for would-be officers. Is there any way you can do an IQ comparison of Trump and Biden?

    I suppose it's made difficult by their both deciding to avoid the Vietnam War with remarkable excuses.

    It's my bone spurs, it's my asthma. Such thumping crooks.

    Replies: @James Speaks

    I don’t thing there is an IQ test that corrects for senile dementia.

  243. @gcochran
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    For a while in the 1970s, GRE went up to 900.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Jack Armstrong, @Dan Kurt

    The Spinal Tap effect.

  244. @obwandiyag
    @danand

    Martin Luther King, unlike myriads of so-called revolutionaries, actually accomplished something. He got legislation passed that changed society. In visible ways.

    This, by the way, is what is wrong with modern agitation movements. They don't have concrete, achievable legislative goals--legislation being the only thing worth actually agitating for. All the rest is a lot of rhetoric and hot air.

    A story for you. A man from Philly, sick of the hypocrisies of his asshole-filled home country, went to the USSR in the 40s and stayed there until the 70s, when he returned.

    When he came back he was utterly amazed to see blacks walking all around the city, everywhere, even Wanamaker's. When he left, he said, you would see nary a one.

    That is what changed. Blacks walking around anywhere they wanted. Not the world. But certainly more fair. And all because of Martin Luther King putting non-violent pressure on the US government.

    Can't wait to hear the pea-brained, "high-IQ" responses. Let the imbecilities begin!

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @John Johnson

    ob, so I take it that you think blm is a lot of hot air. I agree with you.

  245. @RadicalCenter
    @Bardon Kaldian

    I had many a dream about the ladies in ABBA.

    Replies: @Truth

    There were none.

  246. @obwandiyag
    @danand

    Martin Luther King, unlike myriads of so-called revolutionaries, actually accomplished something. He got legislation passed that changed society. In visible ways.

    This, by the way, is what is wrong with modern agitation movements. They don't have concrete, achievable legislative goals--legislation being the only thing worth actually agitating for. All the rest is a lot of rhetoric and hot air.

    A story for you. A man from Philly, sick of the hypocrisies of his asshole-filled home country, went to the USSR in the 40s and stayed there until the 70s, when he returned.

    When he came back he was utterly amazed to see blacks walking all around the city, everywhere, even Wanamaker's. When he left, he said, you would see nary a one.

    That is what changed. Blacks walking around anywhere they wanted. Not the world. But certainly more fair. And all because of Martin Luther King putting non-violent pressure on the US government.

    Can't wait to hear the pea-brained, "high-IQ" responses. Let the imbecilities begin!

    Replies: @Buffalo Joe, @John Johnson

    Martin Luther King, unlike myriads of so-called revolutionaries, actually accomplished something. He got legislation passed that changed society. In visible ways.

    The problem people have with MLK is that the establishment has elevated him into a saint we are not supposed to question while statues of Churchhill are allowed to be torn down because he wasn’t a perfect egalitarian.

    I really don’t care about his test scores and even his plagiarism doesn’t really bother me. Biden’s plagiarism was much worse.

    But I do find it insulting that I’m supposed to worship a phony revered that once laughed and gave tips as someone raped a woman in front of him.

    He is the only character from the 60s that still has his FBI file sealed. The Feds in fact made a special exemption to the freedom of information act for him. It was cited that protecting his reputation was the reason but that would never have been granted for anyone White. The reality is that the establishment wants protect the Black Jesus.

    I went to public skoo and had sit through a month of MLK worship every year followed by Black history month. This worship session was led by liberals that encouraged us to “question authority” but that of course doesn’t mean their authority or their Black Jesus. What they meant was questioning anything White. So sorry if I’m not filled with egalitarian fuzzies over this subject. If Nixon had laughed while someone raped a woman there would be movies about it and it would be brought up every single time anyone mentioned him.

    I’ve also had conservatives tell me we should keep lying about MLK for the sake of Blacks. So let the left tear down every historical figure but help them lie about MLK. Ok guys.

  247. @additionalMike
    @Calvin Hobbes

    Agree, Mr. Hobbes.
    There will be a flood, or a power failure (fires are out of fashion), or a successful lawsuit by the family ($) to block release.
    If they are going to destroy it before now, they had better get a move on.
    Where is Sandy Berger when you need him?

    Replies: @JerseyJeffersonian

    Well, we’ve got Jobama working the case for some short interval of time, and then Camelbama after that. So no problemo, ya feel me?

  248. @James Speaks
    @Desiderius

    Nay. Trump is a walking Greek tragedy, smart enough to push the right buttons, too narcissistic to take sage advice. (Of course, in a Greek tragedy, the hero takes the sage advice but misunderstands it and ends up doing the one thing he was supposed to avoid.)

    King is a was. Trump is an is. He is quite current, else Pelosi/Clinton crowd would not be shrieking like Harpies in the wind to stop him. I feel an epic coming on. I digress.

    One hopes that Trump will recognize the power of his name brand. He can draw crowds of hundreds of thousands, but what to do with them? I would suggest repeating the need for immigration control, deregulation, and staying out of land wars in Asia, minor or main. If he does that, then the tragedy become a comedy.

    One more thing: 'tis better to be Baroque than woke.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Desiderius, @dearieme

    One hopes that Trump will recognize the power of his name brand.

    I think you can rest assured that a guy who has slapped his name on everything from casinos to dress shirts, knows a thing or two about name branding power.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @kaganovitch

    A better move I can not think of:
    https://www.rt.com/usa/513032-trump-patriots-political-party/?fbclid=IwAR0KSGac_SKCif9WyWpsJgwGIDp0neQtu637gFi312vIkayaXJtYuE-VcHU

  249. @James Speaks
    @Desiderius

    Nay. Trump is a walking Greek tragedy, smart enough to push the right buttons, too narcissistic to take sage advice. (Of course, in a Greek tragedy, the hero takes the sage advice but misunderstands it and ends up doing the one thing he was supposed to avoid.)

    King is a was. Trump is an is. He is quite current, else Pelosi/Clinton crowd would not be shrieking like Harpies in the wind to stop him. I feel an epic coming on. I digress.

    One hopes that Trump will recognize the power of his name brand. He can draw crowds of hundreds of thousands, but what to do with them? I would suggest repeating the need for immigration control, deregulation, and staying out of land wars in Asia, minor or main. If he does that, then the tragedy become a comedy.

    One more thing: 'tis better to be Baroque than woke.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Desiderius, @dearieme

    Like I said the day I declared Biden dead was the day that he became the anointed one, but I don’t see how Trump survives this. It’s about far more than mere Democrats.

    Did you see the anti-Trump boat parade the Navy brass threw off the West Coast today? This is the military industrial complex Declaring Independence from the American voter.

    • Replies: @James Speaks
    @Desiderius

    Two words: proletarian revolution.

    Another word: irony. The leftist/progressive party is fascist, and the law and order party - a day's pay for a day's work, has begun an organic proletarian revolution. Explains why the MIC is running scared. They're clamping down b/c they can project how this goes. I bet after heads exploded at Rand Corp. some wonks raised their collective hands and said, "Ya know boss, this could get out of hand."

    Just like warmer oceans will invaribly lead to more hurricane destruction, widespread unrest among the producers will provide the energy needed for political cyclones. Which could probably be modeled the same way as a 3-D finite grid. It probably has been modeled that way.

  250. @anonymous
    and yet Steve, like Greg Cochran or Jared Taylor, simply refuses to say "it's the Jews."

    what kind of witchcraft spell are you boomers under?

    just say the words: it's Jews.

    MLK, civil rights, feminism, Hollywood, Wall Street, communism, the media...it's just the Jews. that's who is waging war on us.


    thankfully no non-boomer on the alt-right is confused about this. what the boomer mental illness about this is i have no idea--were steve, jared, and greg subjected to cia brain-washing treatments or something?

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    thankfully no non-boomer on the alt-right is confused about this.

    They just happen to agree with Jews on all sorts of social depravities– legal pornography, legal buggery, legal abortion, sperm and egg “donation”, legal contraceptive devices, legal profanity online, single-payer health care, no more Christian prayer in public schools… the list goes on and on.

    just say the words: it’s Jews.

    Just say the words: “Jews are lying about evolution in the schools.”

  251. anon[369] • Disclaimer says:
    @Mike_from_SGV
    A lady from Texas once remarked to me, "I can understand why they wanted someone from their group to be a national icon, but was King they best they could do?"

    Replies: @Jake, @Seneca44, @Prester John, @The Alarmist, @JimDandy, @krustykurmudgeon, @anon

    MLK was a useful idiot of the Zionist who manipulated him and his followers so called civil rights icons. His handlers were Zionist Jews portrayed in Wikipedia as financial advisers and assisting him in speech writing (especially I have a dream, Stanley Levison from Atlanta). MLK’s trip to India for photo ops in Gandhi’s Ashram was financed by the same group. Same Gandhi who wrote in his newsletter about blacks as dirty, animals, and who trade their cattle for wives. One of Gandhi’s major campaign in South Africa was to install a third door in a local post office for blacks leaving the two original doors for whites and for the Indian. He did win the third door. Ironically, there is life size statue of Gandhi in MLK’s library in Atlanta. Last year the government of Ghana declared Gandhi anti black and removed his statue/s.

    Well orchestrated propaganda about King is in full swing. His picture with Rothchild and wife in a big gala is difficult to find on Google. He preached peace and non-violence but never uttered a word against the Israeli war against her Arab neighbors at the advice of his Jewish handlers. It is essential for white politicians to put “Dr” before his name as a constant reminder. What kind of doctor was he? Most of the blacks don’t know Theology was his subject. Material relating to MLK’s plagiarism is purged of Internet (his thesis). Blacks are not told that MLK family received $800,000 fee from government to let his statue installed in DC.

    No one remembers the name John Brown who died for his beliefs against slavery. There are other black leaders who contributed for black causes then MLK but one hardly finds their names. One black leader that comes to mind is Malcolm X who is portrayed as terrorist. Whatever people think of Malcolm X is their right to think. But he was most articulate black leader in recent days.

  252. @Desiderius
    @James Speaks

    Like I said the day I declared Biden dead was the day that he became the anointed one, but I don’t see how Trump survives this. It’s about far more than mere Democrats.

    Did you see the anti-Trump boat parade the Navy brass threw off the West Coast today? This is the military industrial complex Declaring Independence from the American voter.

    Replies: @James Speaks

    Two words: proletarian revolution.

    Another word: irony. The leftist/progressive party is fascist, and the law and order party – a day’s pay for a day’s work, has begun an organic proletarian revolution. Explains why the MIC is running scared. They’re clamping down b/c they can project how this goes. I bet after heads exploded at Rand Corp. some wonks raised their collective hands and said, “Ya know boss, this could get out of hand.”

    Just like warmer oceans will invaribly lead to more hurricane destruction, widespread unrest among the producers will provide the energy needed for political cyclones. Which could probably be modeled the same way as a 3-D finite grid. It probably has been modeled that way.

  253. @Jonathan Mason
    @Buffalo Joe

    Obama probably was the best of a pretty mediocre bunch since world war II.

    Trump will probably go down as the worst of all time, with George W Bush on his heels, having left the country on its knees by the end of his 8 years.

    Clinton almost eliminated the federal deficit so you have to give the man credit for that, even though his taste in women was questionable.

    Really being president is an impossible job for which no one these days is suitably qualified. It is probably time to just leave the position vacant and save on the salary.

    Replies: @Jack Armstrong, @Mike Tre, @John Johnson

    “ Clinton almost eliminated the federal deficit so you have to give the man credit for that…”

    Well you get credit for eliminating your credibility.

  254. @Jonathan Mason
    @Buffalo Joe

    Obama probably was the best of a pretty mediocre bunch since world war II.

    Trump will probably go down as the worst of all time, with George W Bush on his heels, having left the country on its knees by the end of his 8 years.

    Clinton almost eliminated the federal deficit so you have to give the man credit for that, even though his taste in women was questionable.

    Really being president is an impossible job for which no one these days is suitably qualified. It is probably time to just leave the position vacant and save on the salary.

    Replies: @Jack Armstrong, @Mike Tre, @John Johnson

    Obama probably was the best of a pretty mediocre bunch since world war II.

    Completely disagree. He was completely in over his head by the fact that he could be talked into anything by his financial advisors. The bank bailout was unbelievable. They actually borrowed money to pay banks that had cash on hand. The banks were sitting on properties while demanding that the government help them. It was truly a new low in corporate whoring.

    Clinton almost eliminated the federal deficit so you have to give the man credit for that, even though his taste in women was questionable.

    Well more accurately he sat on top of tech boom cash which nearly eliminated the deficit for a period and he didn’t go on a spending spree.

    He does deserve credit however as most Democrats would be unable to resist the urge to spend. Clinton also deserves praise for welfare reform even though the liberal states have found ways around it.

    Really being president is an impossible job for which no one these days is suitably qualified.

    Oh plenty of people are qualified. The main problem is that you have to pick a side and be able to lie constantly. Technically competent leaders tend to not be good liars. They don’t have to lie in the private sector to advance so they aren’t used to it.

  255. Anon[107] • Disclaimer says:
    @Anonymous
    @Anon

    If you read the link you gave, you'll see it refers to a 2011 change. Since the categories differed in 1951 from either pre or after 2011, it seems clear that the test has had more than one change.

    Replies: @Anon

    If you read the link you gave, you’ll see it refers to a 2011 change. Since the categories differed in 1951 from either pre or after 2011, it seems clear that the test has had more than one change.

    So please Google the answer for me.

    I’m waiting. Get off your ass and deliver.

  256. @ChrisZ
    @unit472

    Oratorical skill is one of the most over-rated abilities. Because it's verbal, as an ability it seems to indicate intelligence in the speaker; but in fact it might be more like the ability to sing passionately: no mean feat, but not, on its own, evidence of general smarts, nor a recommendation for investing the singer with leadership responsibility.

    The ability to sway the mass of people through speech is a great asset to a leader, and many great leaders of history have had it. For the great ones, it's just one talent in the stack. But it's a *visible* talent, and most people neither see nor appreciate the many invisible skills involved in high-level leadership; so they mistakenly conflate passionate oration with the speaker's ability to lead. I too remember Swaggart (what a great name for preacher!), as well as fellow "great orators" of the day like Mario Cuomo and Jesse Jackson. All off them were noted for their potential Presidential timber--but in retrospect, can you imagine any of them in that role?

    That's the trouble with oratorical skill: it's so effective at fooling the watcher (which is distinct from the listener) into thinking she's witnessing something deep, when it's really something shallow. Another trouble is that it fools the *speaker himself* into thinking he's more than he is. Our current political culture is full of this type.

    Interesting comment, Unit. Thanks.

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    Oratorical skill is one of the most over-rated abilities.

    Depends on how you look at it.

    Public speaking is, like so many things, partly the product of innate ability, but it can certainly be improved by technique and practice, especially by actually paying attention to what makes oratory effective, and by taking some risks and trying to do things differently when you need to speak formally (e.g. learning to speak extemporaneously in most settings rather than reading from a script).

    One aspect of my job is coaching academics in public speaking/lecture skills. Many of them, although intelligent and experienced as teachers, are terrible speakers, and deep down they know it. And since effective public speaking feeds off confidence, which they lack, they never get better, no matter how many hours they stand in front of classes and conferences.

    The payoffs for being a good public speaker are variable; in academia, it doesn’t always correlate with a successful career. In business or politics the payoffs are much more obvious. But for many people it’s something worth working at.

    • Agree: Desiderius
    • Replies: @Alden
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    I took a speech course in college. Amazing how improved everyone was after a couple months. It really is something that can be learned.

    , @Desiderius
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    As with singing the first 90% is merely technique and confidence, but the last 10% is what matters when you’re talking greatness and there you’re looking at talent, passion, luck, 10,000 hrs, support, what have you.

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

  257. @Lot
    Evidence King had a high IQ:

    1. He liked “reading dictionaries” as a child
    2. Skipped the 9th grade
    3. Went to HS at a university laboratory school. These tend to be a mix of professors’ children and local gifted students.
    4. Started at Morehouse at age 15, graduated with a BA at 19.
    5. Got a top 25% score in a GRE subtest in a pool normed from mostly white male college juniors and seniors at a time when senior college attendance was low.

    There’s really no way King didn’t have a top 1% IQ for US blacks. That’s not smart enough to get a Ph.D. at BU without cheating or relaxation of normal standards, but it is still very intelligent. If I had to pick a number I’d say about 120-125.

    His math GRE was very low, but it looks like he took it while he was a seminary student. So he likely took his required math classes at age 15-16 at Morehouse, then had no more math for 4-5 years at the time he took the GRE. The pool was normed on the more typical situation of college juniors and seniors who were actively taking math classes still because of STEM majors, or for the non STEM had finished their math requirement only 0.5-2 years prior. By the same token, King’s high Lit score overstated his ability since he studying the Bible and interpretation full time as a seminarian.

    Replies: @res

    5. Got a top 25% score in a GRE subtest in a pool normed from mostly white male college juniors and seniors at a time when senior college attendance was low.

    Still trying to figure out how 470 translates into “top quartile” when the test is normed so 500 is the mean.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @res

    That’s what his score report says.

    Look at my other comment. It seems like the 500 mean 100SD was adopted in 1956. The BU data from 1949 says the school’s mean and SD were around 480/70.

    Replies: @res

  258. @additionalMike
    @Marty

    I have been involved in many cases just like that...if plaintiff can assemble enough White Guys/Gals Who Skated (known in the trade as "comparators") he will have a prima facie case, and mebbe a settlement.

    Replies: @Marty

    Oh sire. Bit here the point is – it was a warehouse full of glass bottles. Impaired forklift drivers = lost profits. So why would the company exempt whites?

  259. @Seth
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    It’s true that political commitment, moral courage, and spiritual strength are not necessarily correlated with high test scores. Moreover King did write well—“Letter from the Birmingham Jail” is not the work of an idiot.

    Whether he was a stooge for the CPUSA is another question.

    Replies: @Alden

    Your assuming that Michael King, not one of his handlers wrote Letters from a Birmingham jail

    Faye Stender wrote her protege * George Jackson’s prison letters and Huey Newton’s phd dissertation.

    * Marin county courthouse shootout Angela Davis communist Jewish negro lovers.

    • Agree: Nicholas Stix
  260. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @ChrisZ


    Oratorical skill is one of the most over-rated abilities.

     

    Depends on how you look at it.

    Public speaking is, like so many things, partly the product of innate ability, but it can certainly be improved by technique and practice, especially by actually paying attention to what makes oratory effective, and by taking some risks and trying to do things differently when you need to speak formally (e.g. learning to speak extemporaneously in most settings rather than reading from a script).

    One aspect of my job is coaching academics in public speaking/lecture skills. Many of them, although intelligent and experienced as teachers, are terrible speakers, and deep down they know it. And since effective public speaking feeds off confidence, which they lack, they never get better, no matter how many hours they stand in front of classes and conferences.

    The payoffs for being a good public speaker are variable; in academia, it doesn't always correlate with a successful career. In business or politics the payoffs are much more obvious. But for many people it's something worth working at.

    Replies: @Alden, @Desiderius

    I took a speech course in college. Amazing how improved everyone was after a couple months. It really is something that can be learned.

    • Agree: Desiderius
  261. @Hans
    @prime noticer

    His father, a street preacher, went by Daddy King until he rebranded under Martin Luther King. Apparently, he never got around to legally changing Michael's name. I wonder if Michelle has..

    "We read in Michael Hoffman’s Holiday for a Cheater:




    The first public sermon that King ever gave, in 1947 at the Ebenezer Baptist Church, was plagiarized from a homily by Protestant clergyman Harry Emerson Fosdick entitled “Life is What You Make It,” according to the testimony of King’s best friend of that time, Reverend Larry H. Williams. The first book that King wrote, Stride Toward Freedom, was plagiarized from numerous sources, all unattributed, according to documentation recently assembled by sympathetic King scholars Keith D. Miller, Ira G. Zepp, Jr., and David J. Garrow. And no less an authoritative source than the four senior editors of The Papers of Martin Luther King, Jr. (an official publication of the Martin Luther King Center for Nonviolent Social Change, Inc., whose staff includes King’s widow Coretta), stated of King’s writings at both Boston University and Crozer Theological Seminary: “Judged retroactively by the standards of academic scholarship, [his writings] are tragically flawed by numerous instances of plagiarism…. Appropriated passages are particularly evident in his writings in his major field of graduate study, systematic theology.” King’s essay, “The Place of Reason and Experience in Finding God,” written at Crozer, pirated passages from the work of theologian Edgar S. Brightman, author of The Finding of God. Another of King’s theses, “Contemporary Continental Theology,” written shortly after he entered Boston University, was largely stolen from a book by Walter Marshall Horton. King’s doctoral dissertation, “A Comparison of the Conceptions of God in the Thinking of Paul Tillich and Harry Nelson Wieman,” for which he was awarded a PhD in theology, contains more than fifty complete sentences plagiarized from the PhD dissertation of Dr. Jack Boozer, “The Place of Reason in Paul Tillich’s Concept of God.”

    According to The Martin Luther King Papers, in King’s dissertation “only 49 per cent. of sentences in the section on Tillich contain five or more words that were King’s own….”!
     
    "In The Journal of American History, June 1991, page 87, David J. Garrow, a leftist academic who is sympathetic to King, says that King’s wife, Coretta Scott King, who also served as his secretary, was an accomplice in his repeated cheating. Reading Garrow’s article, one is led to the inescapable conclusion that King cheated because he had chosen for himself a political role in which a PhD would be useful"

    http://www.revilo-oliver.com/Kevin-Strom-personal/Beast_as_Saint.html

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    Apparently, he never got around to legally changing Michael’s name.

    Again, one does not have to change one’s name “legally”.

    This is not Europe. The law isn’t what Napoleon said 200 years ago. We have common law, which simply says, “Go ahead, change your name. Or your kid’s. Just doing it makes it legal.”

    The guy probably committed at least one rape, and you folks go on and on about a perfectly valid name change?

  262. @John Mansfield
    Here is a tale I call The Story of the No. 3 Pencil:

    I worked a couple years between undergraduate and graduate studies. Somewhere in the middle of that period I got around to attending to the GRE. I stopped by the local branch of the University of New Mexico, picked up a GRE booklet, and found I had missed the deadline for advance registration for the next exam. The closest exam site would be in Santa Fe, but since I would be a walk-in, I decided to test in Albuquerque to make sure a subject exam in engineering would be available. I called a friend in Rio Rancho about staying at her family’s home the night before, and she said that would be fine. Her mother was in the room with her as she was talking to me on the phone, so she was unable to tell me that she was putting together a surprise 25th anniversary party for her parents the night I was coming. When I arrived, the party was in full swing and was a lot of fun, but getting to sleep around midnight cut into the reason I had originally come, which was to get a couple more hours sleep than if I had made the 100-mile drive in the morning.

    The next surprise came in the morning when I started filling in the testing bubble sheet. I had switched to No. 3 pencils three years before this, and had forgotten the instruction for those test sheets since elementary school to use only a No. 2 pencil. I wondered about seeing if I could borrow a No. 2 pencil from the test administrators, but decided to just go with what I had and find out later if it mattered.

    It turned out that the crayon-like No. 2 pencil was not the only option for filling GRE bubbles. Results for the general and engineering subject exams came back very high, and I would be offered a fellowship to start a PhD program in fluid dynamics, the field I continue to work in.

    So, my advice to young people preparing for such tests has been: 1) go to a party the night before, and 2) use a No. 3 pencil.

    Replies: @Rob McX

    Interesting story. I personally find that taking less sleep can improve concentration, provided it’s a once-off thing and you’re not surviving on four hours a night for weeks on end.

  263. @Polistra
    @Anonymous

    When I took it in the 1980s it had three scores IIRC. Verbal, Quant, and Analytical. I thank God for this test because while my college record was very good it wasn't stellar enough by itself to get me into a top grad school. The director of my grad program made reference to my scores after I arrived there.

    Something similar had happened to me earlier, with the SAT. My high school record was decent, but I really needed the SAT scores to get into a good college. I wish people would quit knocking them! Oh, what am I saying? That was 20 years ago. They're history now.

    Replies: @International Jew, @fitzhamilton, @Percy Gryce

    Same for me. I always tested well, but I killed the GRE in 1989–I’m certain that it was a particularly easy sitting of the test. I remember the rejection letter from the grad program at University of Toronto said something about how my GRE scores showed what I could do when I put my mind to it. The most hilarious rejection letter I’ve ever received.

    • Replies: @Polistra
    @Percy Gryce

    Black mark for Toronto as far as I'm concerned!

    Replies: @Percy Gryce

  264. @International Jew
    @Polistra

    The "analytical reasoning" section was genuinely interesting.

    Replies: @Percy Gryce

    Indeed, I describe it to people as logic puzzles. They were hard, but if you did enough of them you could start to sense the answer just by the “shape” of the puzzles.

  265. @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia
    @Anonymouse

    I am working from foggy memory here but I recall my GRE scores as 710 verbal, 590 Math.

    My GMAT score will be forever etched into my brain -- 600 on the nose, 90th percentile. With my work experience plus truly spectacular verbal skills, plus stellar undergrad transcript, plus other graduate school work, I talked my way into a top 5 B school.

    Today I'd be on the outside looking in.

    Replies: @Percy Gryce

    No surprise that iSteve commenters can remember their GRE scores. (Mine from 1989: V=790, Q=700, A=780.)

  266. I personally don’t give a shit how dumb MLK was, I am, however highly entertained by how dumb YOU are expending all this time and emotion, discussing and sizing your third-rate lives against, an ex-mediocrity who has been dead for over 50 years.

    ..Not just today either, I would estimate that this topic comes up once every 3-4 weeks.

  267. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @ChrisZ


    Oratorical skill is one of the most over-rated abilities.

     

    Depends on how you look at it.

    Public speaking is, like so many things, partly the product of innate ability, but it can certainly be improved by technique and practice, especially by actually paying attention to what makes oratory effective, and by taking some risks and trying to do things differently when you need to speak formally (e.g. learning to speak extemporaneously in most settings rather than reading from a script).

    One aspect of my job is coaching academics in public speaking/lecture skills. Many of them, although intelligent and experienced as teachers, are terrible speakers, and deep down they know it. And since effective public speaking feeds off confidence, which they lack, they never get better, no matter how many hours they stand in front of classes and conferences.

    The payoffs for being a good public speaker are variable; in academia, it doesn't always correlate with a successful career. In business or politics the payoffs are much more obvious. But for many people it's something worth working at.

    Replies: @Alden, @Desiderius

    As with singing the first 90% is merely technique and confidence, but the last 10% is what matters when you’re talking greatness and there you’re looking at talent, passion, luck, 10,000 hrs, support, what have you.

    • Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Desiderius


    As with singing the first 90% is merely technique and confidence, but the last 10% is what matters when you’re talking greatness and there you’re looking at talent, passion, luck, 10,000 hrs, support, what have you.

     

    Yes, and physical gifts play a role also. If you're physically unprepossessing and dumpy-looking, it's not going to help you as a public speaker, although you can overcome such drawbacks if you're very good in other facets.

    It also hurts to have a weak or naturally-whiny voice, whereas if you've got a good voice, you start out a couple of steps ahead of the pack as a speaker. For example, Obama's speaking voice is one of his underrated gifts: it's nicely-pitched and pleasantly resonant. I've always thought this natural advantage was one of the main reasons he has been hailed as such an accomplished public speaker.

    Replies: @Desiderius

  268. @James Speaks
    @Desiderius

    Was it the written, or the road test?

    Replies: @Desiderius

    Written

    It would take a whole nother level of autism to faili the driving part that way.

    • Replies: @Reg Cæsar
    @Desiderius


    It would take a whole nother level of autism to fail the driving part that way.
     
    A college hallmate told of his experience in summer driver's ed. This was in the mid-'70s when halter tops were big. A joker thought it was funny to undo the neck knot while the poor girl was driving.

    Luckily for him, that was before sex offender registries were around.
  269. @res
    @Lot


    5. Got a top 25% score in a GRE subtest in a pool normed from mostly white male college juniors and seniors at a time when senior college attendance was low.
     
    Still trying to figure out how 470 translates into "top quartile" when the test is normed so 500 is the mean.

    Replies: @Lot

    That’s what his score report says.

    Look at my other comment. It seems like the 500 mean 100SD was adopted in 1956. The BU data from 1949 says the school’s mean and SD were around 480/70.

    • Replies: @res
    @Lot


    That’s what his score report says.
     
    Right. And I am pointing out that it does not make sense. I trust the numbers more than I trust someone's attempt to translate them into words. Especially given the person involved.

    Look at my other comment. It seems like the 500 mean 100SD was adopted in 1956.
     
    You might want to take a closer look at your references. From page three of your second link.

    The previous scales, established in 1947, had been so set that 500 was the mean scaled score on each particular test for a group of seniors majoring in the field covered by that test, and the standard deviation of their scores was 100. A different standardization group was therefore used for each test, with no adjustment made for group differences in ability.
     
    The change you are observing was discussed in my earlier comment. In 1952 they changed the Advanced Test norming so the scores were adjusted for the relative ability of the group taking a particular subtest.

    MLK's 1951 score of 470 on the Literature test was below the mean of the people who took that test. It is possible that using a renormed version of his score would push it into the "top quartile" in the sense of being over 567, but I think this unlikely. In a normal distribution the top quartile boundary is +0.67 SD. His score was -0.3 SD.

    As I mentioned in my other comment, in the standardization sample the Literature test takers were +0.64 SD on verbal. They were also -0.37 on quantitative. If I interpret Table 15 in that reference correctly that resulted in a renormed mean of 548 which would give my estimate for his renormed score as 518 (548 - 0.3*99) which is well below (-0.5 SD) 567.

    Given all of that I am unable to see what kind of tortured definition of "top quartile" they could be using that would allow his score to qualify.

    Back to you.

    The BU data from 1949 says the school’s mean and SD were around 480/70.
     
    That dissertation is 82 pages long. It would help to give a more specific reference. Table 3 on page 52 indicates the mean and SD for their study group of 305 students were 488.1/80.74 on the GRE Literature test. (where did you see 480/70?)

    His 470 was below that mean of 488 as well. To repeat: How does that translate into "top quartile"?

    P.S. In one sense this discussion is a giant waste of time as several commenters have observed. But in another sense it is a quite interesting case study of how personal histories are embellished (or destroyed, cf. Trump). Enough small details fudged here and there and pretty soon you have a completely different person. A good lesson for reading history.

    Replies: @Lot

  270. @Desiderius
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    As with singing the first 90% is merely technique and confidence, but the last 10% is what matters when you’re talking greatness and there you’re looking at talent, passion, luck, 10,000 hrs, support, what have you.

    Replies: @The Last Real Calvinist

    As with singing the first 90% is merely technique and confidence, but the last 10% is what matters when you’re talking greatness and there you’re looking at talent, passion, luck, 10,000 hrs, support, what have you.

    Yes, and physical gifts play a role also. If you’re physically unprepossessing and dumpy-looking, it’s not going to help you as a public speaker, although you can overcome such drawbacks if you’re very good in other facets.

    It also hurts to have a weak or naturally-whiny voice, whereas if you’ve got a good voice, you start out a couple of steps ahead of the pack as a speaker. For example, Obama’s speaking voice is one of his underrated gifts: it’s nicely-pitched and pleasantly resonant. I’ve always thought this natural advantage was one of the main reasons he has been hailed as such an accomplished public speaker.

    • Replies: @Desiderius
    @The Last Real Calvinist

    That all falls under technique.

    See Demosthenes.

  271. @res
    @Buzz Mohawk

    More truth than I like in your comment, but it is worth observing that IQ is far from the only characteristic relevant to being an outstanding man (or woman). (I am sure you know this, but I think it is worth being explicit about it)

    I think MLK's example does make an argument that our test regime underrates blacks relative to their ability to make contributions in some areas.

    The problem is that has been used to conclude that the tests underrate blacks in all areas with the consequent demolition of much of our meritiocratic system. Which is and will continue to become even more of a disaster in areas where competence actually does matter.

    It is worth observing that the demolition of the meritocratic measures we had is a wonderful gift to "elites" with mediocre children. I do not think that is a coincidence.

    Replies: @anon, @Anonymous, @vhrm

    More truth than I like in your comment, but it is worth observing that IQ is far from the only characteristic relevant to being an outstanding man (or woman). (I am sure you know this, but I think it is worth being explicit about it)

    I think MLK’s example does make an argument that our test regime underrates blacks relative to their ability to make contributions in some areas.

    There’s also a question of what makes a person specifically “outstanding”. There’s a fair amount of luck and “right place right time” (or wrong time wrong place) about who gets remembered by history.

    Some random notable people (all of whom are derided by some or many):
    Greta Thunberg
    Maxine Waters
    Adolph Hitler
    George W Bush
    Donald Trump
    Elizabeth Holmes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theranos ) (who, btw, is the daughter of an Enron vp ?! what? Talk about heritable traits… (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Holmes#Early_life ) )

    These people are notable and/or wielded power at some point. Some of them are smart, some of them are so so, some of them are maybe more on the dumb side.

    With MLK Jr, i’m no expert in the Civil Rights movement, but it seems to me that he was a man of his times along for the ride rather than someone of unique insight and vision. If he never existed i’m not sure anything would have been markedly different.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @vhrm


    If he never existed i’m not sure anything would have been markedly different.
     
    It is, of course, impossible to answer that hypothetical question. But, I would say that:

    1) had Lenin been killed in a traffic accident in, say, 1910- there would have been no world communism as we knew it

    2) without MLK, blacks would have gotten more equality, but not in a hysterical, white-suicidal counter-cultural way. Similar to Brazil's abolition of slavery as contrasted with American Civil War & Reconstruction & KKK.
    , @res
    @vhrm

    Good observations. Regarding


    With MLK Jr, i’m no expert in the Civil Rights movement, but it seems to me that he was a man of his times along for the ride rather than someone of unique insight and vision. If he never existed i’m not sure anything would have been markedly different.
     
    That's an interesting hypothetical. I tend to agree with you, assuming "they" were able to able to find someone to fill his role in a similar fashion (cf. same question for Jackie Robinson in baseball). However, I think having someone like Malcolm X be the face of the Civil Rights movement might have caused things to turn out rather differently. Though I can't say exactly how (consider succeeding with a more aggressive approach vs. failing because of backlash).
  272. @Desiderius
    @James Speaks

    Written

    It would take a whole nother level of autism to faili the driving part that way.

    Replies: @Reg Cæsar

    It would take a whole nother level of autism to fail the driving part that way.

    A college hallmate told of his experience in summer driver’s ed. This was in the mid-’70s when halter tops were big. A joker thought it was funny to undo the neck knot while the poor girl was driving.

    Luckily for him, that was before sex offender registries were around.

  273. @Bardon Kaldian
    @Muggles

    Not that I care, but I am inclined to think that all the talk about Obama's gaydom is fiction.

    Certainly there were homos/ephebophiles in history (Plato, Caravaggio, Tchaikovsky, Proust), but from what I know, I would say that the impossible company consisting of Alexander the Great, Caesar, Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo (probably), Shakespeare, Schubert, Richard Francis Burton, Errol Flynn, Cary Grant, Richard Gere, ... were all straight, some of them being asexual.

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix, @Ian Smith

    The Sham Life of Barack and Michelle Obama vs. the Sordid Reality
    https://nicholasstixuncensored.blogspot.com/2021/01/the-sham-life-of-barack-and-michelle.html

    • Thanks: Alden
  274. @Anonymous
    @Peter Akuleyev


    “The average Kenyan child speaks three languages. This figure is even higher amongst children in urban deprived areas who regularly speak five languages.”
     
    So they speak 2 dialects of Swahili plus a form of broken English. That does not indicate fluent polyglotism and some special facility for languages. Much of the world can speak multiple dialects and some form and degree of broken English.

    Africans struggle with achieving full proficiency, fluency, and literacy in their first languages. Having basic conversational ability in or broken forms of more than one dialect or language doesn't make you a fluent polyglot.

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev

    So they speak 2 dialects of Swahili plus a form of broken English.

    You really have no idea what you are talking about, maybe stop now.

  275. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Languages have rules of grammar that you must understand. Languages have subjects, adjectives, verbs, and adverbs. Languages have large numbers of vocabulary words.

    If you can fluently speak a language, that's evidence of high IQ.

    Here's one way to separate mimicry from verbal IQ. Have a discussion/argument with a person. If they can craft unique points in response to your points, then they likely have a high IQ. If they keep repeating the same thing over and over without any ability to improvise anything new, then they're just mimicking what they've heard in the past.

    Improvisation of verbal arguments is evidence of strong verbal ability.

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev, @Jack D

    If you can fluently speak a language, that’s evidence of high IQ.

    I think we are just talking past each other. You are not defining “fluent” the way a linguist would define it. You are talking about “eloquence.” It does not require high IQ to learn to speak a foreign language with almost no real grammatical mistakes, no hesitation and in such a way that native speakers can easily understand you. Especially if you start as a child. I would call that “fluent”, and millions of Africans can do that in three, four or five languages, simply because they are exposed to multiple spoken languages from a young age.

    Even a lot of 100 IQ American blacks are arguably “bilingual” because they can switch easily between standard American English and Black Vernacular.

    I agree with your mimicry point. My point was that a lot of people are impressed with African linguistic skills, but for the wrong reasons. Being a polyglot is not prima facie evidence of high IQ. And, again, I know many people with very high IQs who seem incable of learning how to speak foreign languages, although, notably, they can quickly learn to read them. People with high IQs are good at recognizing patterns and making intuitive leaps, which helps decoding a text in a foreign language. People with high IQs are not necessarily good mimics – so resist the different accent, gestures or intonation that speaking a foreign language well requires.

    If you drop a Nigerian and a high IQ American graduate student into China, within three months the Nigerian would be perfectly capable of going to night clubs, making jokes, selling drugs and meeting girls in Mandarin. And would be illiterate. The American would still be struggling to produce basic phrases with the correct tones but would probably have learned 700 characters, could decode most street signs and be able to explain the various meanings of the particle “le”.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @Peter Akuleyev

    This African speaks Chinese in an embarrassing video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsyHbj_SHGA

  276. @vhrm
    @res


    More truth than I like in your comment, but it is worth observing that IQ is far from the only characteristic relevant to being an outstanding man (or woman). (I am sure you know this, but I think it is worth being explicit about it)

    I think MLK’s example does make an argument that our test regime underrates blacks relative to their ability to make contributions in some areas.
     
    There's also a question of what makes a person specifically "outstanding". There's a fair amount of luck and "right place right time" (or wrong time wrong place) about who gets remembered by history.

    Some random notable people (all of whom are derided by some or many):
    Greta Thunberg
    Maxine Waters
    Adolph Hitler
    George W Bush
    Donald Trump
    Elizabeth Holmes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theranos ) (who, btw, is the daughter of an Enron vp ?! what? Talk about heritable traits... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Holmes#Early_life ) )

    These people are notable and/or wielded power at some point. Some of them are smart, some of them are so so, some of them are maybe more on the dumb side.

    With MLK Jr, i'm no expert in the Civil Rights movement, but it seems to me that he was a man of his times along for the ride rather than someone of unique insight and vision. If he never existed i'm not sure anything would have been markedly different.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @res

    If he never existed i’m not sure anything would have been markedly different.

    It is, of course, impossible to answer that hypothetical question. But, I would say that:

    1) had Lenin been killed in a traffic accident in, say, 1910- there would have been no world communism as we knew it

    2) without MLK, blacks would have gotten more equality, but not in a hysterical, white-suicidal counter-cultural way. Similar to Brazil’s abolition of slavery as contrasted with American Civil War & Reconstruction & KKK.

  277. @Peter Akuleyev
    @JohnnyWalker123

    If you can fluently speak a language, that’s evidence of high IQ.

    I think we are just talking past each other. You are not defining "fluent" the way a linguist would define it. You are talking about "eloquence." It does not require high IQ to learn to speak a foreign language with almost no real grammatical mistakes, no hesitation and in such a way that native speakers can easily understand you. Especially if you start as a child. I would call that "fluent", and millions of Africans can do that in three, four or five languages, simply because they are exposed to multiple spoken languages from a young age.

    Even a lot of 100 IQ American blacks are arguably "bilingual" because they can switch easily between standard American English and Black Vernacular.

    I agree with your mimicry point. My point was that a lot of people are impressed with African linguistic skills, but for the wrong reasons. Being a polyglot is not prima facie evidence of high IQ. And, again, I know many people with very high IQs who seem incable of learning how to speak foreign languages, although, notably, they can quickly learn to read them. People with high IQs are good at recognizing patterns and making intuitive leaps, which helps decoding a text in a foreign language. People with high IQs are not necessarily good mimics - so resist the different accent, gestures or intonation that speaking a foreign language well requires.

    If you drop a Nigerian and a high IQ American graduate student into China, within three months the Nigerian would be perfectly capable of going to night clubs, making jokes, selling drugs and meeting girls in Mandarin. And would be illiterate. The American would still be struggling to produce basic phrases with the correct tones but would probably have learned 700 characters, could decode most street signs and be able to explain the various meanings of the particle "le".

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    This African speaks Chinese in an embarrassing video:

  278. @kaganovitch
    @James Speaks

    One hopes that Trump will recognize the power of his name brand.

    I think you can rest assured that a guy who has slapped his name on everything from casinos to dress shirts, knows a thing or two about name branding power.

    Replies: @James Speaks

  279. @Znzn
    @TTSSYF

    You know that character attributes are also inherited right?

    Replies: @TTSSYF

    Yes. But, speaking for myself, I believe they can be cultivated to some degree by the people you surround yourself with. A lot of mine were cultivated by the people I’ve worked with over the past several decades. It’s helped clear up a lot moral confusion I had due to my upbringing. So I’d rather believe this glass is half-full, rather than half-empty.

  280. @Percy Gryce
    @Polistra

    Same for me. I always tested well, but I killed the GRE in 1989--I'm certain that it was a particularly easy sitting of the test. I remember the rejection letter from the grad program at University of Toronto said something about how my GRE scores showed what I could do when I put my mind to it. The most hilarious rejection letter I've ever received.

    Replies: @Polistra

    Black mark for Toronto as far as I’m concerned!

    • Replies: @Percy Gryce
    @Polistra

    So nice of you to say. It was all for the best.

  281. @Bardon Kaldian
    @Desiderius

    IQ crowd seems to be eternally warring against Gardner's multiple intelligences; they assure us they have won- but I don't see the fruits of their supposed victory.

    Taken literally, Gardner was wrong.

    But, if we retain a common-sense definition of intelligence, he was mostly right. At least two types of intelligences, words (analytic-synthetic thinking) & numbers (math & similar areas) frequently barely intersect.

    Outside of their math-related fields - Newton, Gauss, Euler, Poincare, Dirac, Grothendieck, ... were below an average intellectually curious man who can articulate his thoughts in a logical manner.

    On the other hand- most of Aristotle, Plotinus, Erigena, Aquinas, Francis Bacon, Diderot, Hegel, Schopenhauer, Stirner, Nietzsche, Freud, Jung, Heidegger,  ....knew very little about mathematics, although some of them tried to learn its essentials through their mental lens.

    Replies: @dearieme, @Desiderius

    Nietzsche, Freud, Jung, Heidegger

    Two of them were charlatans. By which I mean at least two.

    • Replies: @Bardon Kaldian
    @dearieme

    It doesn't matter who was a charlatan according to your, or anyone's criteria. It matters these people were highly creative, intelligent (in any sense of the word) & influential.

    For instance, both Bertrand Russell & Karl Popper thought that Plato's was the most powerful mind in the history of mankind -and simultaneously, they both considered him to be wrong on virtually all issues they addressed.

  282. @James Speaks
    @Desiderius

    Nay. Trump is a walking Greek tragedy, smart enough to push the right buttons, too narcissistic to take sage advice. (Of course, in a Greek tragedy, the hero takes the sage advice but misunderstands it and ends up doing the one thing he was supposed to avoid.)

    King is a was. Trump is an is. He is quite current, else Pelosi/Clinton crowd would not be shrieking like Harpies in the wind to stop him. I feel an epic coming on. I digress.

    One hopes that Trump will recognize the power of his name brand. He can draw crowds of hundreds of thousands, but what to do with them? I would suggest repeating the need for immigration control, deregulation, and staying out of land wars in Asia, minor or main. If he does that, then the tragedy become a comedy.

    One more thing: 'tis better to be Baroque than woke.

    Replies: @kaganovitch, @Desiderius, @dearieme

    ’tis better to be Baroque than woke

    Does that mean that Baroque and woke rhyme in American? I didn’t know that.

    • Replies: @Jack D
    @dearieme

    Does that mean that Baroque and wok rhyme in British English? I didn’t know that.

  283. @The Last Real Calvinist
    @Desiderius


    As with singing the first 90% is merely technique and confidence, but the last 10% is what matters when you’re talking greatness and there you’re looking at talent, passion, luck, 10,000 hrs, support, what have you.

     

    Yes, and physical gifts play a role also. If you're physically unprepossessing and dumpy-looking, it's not going to help you as a public speaker, although you can overcome such drawbacks if you're very good in other facets.

    It also hurts to have a weak or naturally-whiny voice, whereas if you've got a good voice, you start out a couple of steps ahead of the pack as a speaker. For example, Obama's speaking voice is one of his underrated gifts: it's nicely-pitched and pleasantly resonant. I've always thought this natural advantage was one of the main reasons he has been hailed as such an accomplished public speaker.

    Replies: @Desiderius

    That all falls under technique.

    See Demosthenes.

  284. @Muggles
    @Anonymous

    The problem with this AI Roman Emperor project is that according to most scholars (all in fact) virtually none of the statues or carvings of these guys was done from life.

    Yes there were some that incorporated accurate descriptions to some extent, but all ancient ruler images were done for propaganda reasons. I.e. Stalin was short and ugly, with thinning hair, not like the Pravda photos.

    While some of these bore some resemblance, if you were a Roman Emperor your venerated imagery would like like a Photoshopped pr photo, not like you really were.

    Replies: @Jack D

    First of all, it looks like they made about half the Emperors black or blackish. I don’t think the Emperors would have been cool with that. Woke AI?

    Typically the Emperor would have an official portrait done for coinage at the beginning of their rule and the image would stay the same even as the Emperor aged so by the end of their rule they’d look nothing like their youthful portrait.

  285. @Bardon Kaldian
    @Desiderius

    IQ crowd seems to be eternally warring against Gardner's multiple intelligences; they assure us they have won- but I don't see the fruits of their supposed victory.

    Taken literally, Gardner was wrong.

    But, if we retain a common-sense definition of intelligence, he was mostly right. At least two types of intelligences, words (analytic-synthetic thinking) & numbers (math & similar areas) frequently barely intersect.

    Outside of their math-related fields - Newton, Gauss, Euler, Poincare, Dirac, Grothendieck, ... were below an average intellectually curious man who can articulate his thoughts in a logical manner.

    On the other hand- most of Aristotle, Plotinus, Erigena, Aquinas, Francis Bacon, Diderot, Hegel, Schopenhauer, Stirner, Nietzsche, Freud, Jung, Heidegger,  ....knew very little about mathematics, although some of them tried to learn its essentials through their mental lens.

    Replies: @dearieme, @Desiderius

    I think that Steve’s point is that things might have worked out better for blacks (and ultimately us) if they (and thus we given the present bizarre dispensation) had chosen leaders loaded with a little more g.

    That he brought other talents and virtues to the table or that g expresses itself in various ways is somewhat beside the point.

    In case anyone is missing it the point is aimed squarely and correctly at the backers of the erstwhile Mr. Kendi, many of whom have people who read Steve for them.

  286. @Polistra
    @Percy Gryce

    Black mark for Toronto as far as I'm concerned!

    Replies: @Percy Gryce

    So nice of you to say. It was all for the best.

  287. Anon[274] • Disclaimer says:
    @anon
    In other news of standardized testing, the College Board abruptly discontinued SAT subject tests and the SAT essay.

    Talented young Whites and Asians will still be able to stand out by, er, uh, ...

    iSteve fave David Coleman makes a guest appearance.

    Replies: @Anon

    In other news of standardized testing, the College Board abruptly discontinued SAT subject tests and the SAT essay.

    I’d think that the essay, which has come and gone before and has never been a core part of the SAT, is too much of a pain to try to deal with in a pandemic. And the subject matter tests … nobody’s even heard of them. Are they AP tests for dumb people, or AP tests for smart people stuck in dumb schools, or what? I doubt there was much demand for them.

    Reliable, accurate, cheat-resistant over-the-internet SAT test technology is where they need to concentrate their efforts. We might be seeing innovations like dynamic, random-order, timed questions, and multiple test sessions over months. I watched a fascinating YouTube video on how Chess.com catches cheaters. One trick is they detect really obvious moves and if there is a delay, they figure the player is cheating. For instance, if a higher point piece is in danger in a situation where it’s obvious to anyone that it should be captured, yet the player takes five seconds to do it, suspicion is raised. This kind of software will be a growth area.

  288. @JohnnyWalker123
    @Peter Akuleyev

    Languages have rules of grammar that you must understand. Languages have subjects, adjectives, verbs, and adverbs. Languages have large numbers of vocabulary words.

    If you can fluently speak a language, that's evidence of high IQ.

    Here's one way to separate mimicry from verbal IQ. Have a discussion/argument with a person. If they can craft unique points in response to your points, then they likely have a high IQ. If they keep repeating the same thing over and over without any ability to improvise anything new, then they're just mimicking what they've heard in the past.

    Improvisation of verbal arguments is evidence of strong verbal ability.

    Replies: @Peter Akuleyev, @Jack D

    Language (any language) is incredibly complex as you say, with all sorts of rules and memorization required, and yet any four year old and all but the most severely retarded adults speak their native language with great fluency and adherence to the rules of grammar. The reason for this is that humans are pre-programmed to pick up language (language in general and not any particular language). Pick up and not learn – 1 year olds don’t sit in a class room and study conjugations and tenses. But after puberty the innate language learning capability is pruned away from our brains as something that is no longer needed from an evolutionary perspective and after that you have to learn a new language the same way you learn any other new skill and this is very difficult.

    Some societies are bilingual or even trilingual for historical reasons (usually involving conquest – you have the language of the locals and then the language of the conquerors) so that children must learn two or three languages growing up instead of just one. In America with its many immigrants it’s very common for children to speak the language of their parents as well as English. This is no particular sign of intelligence, it’s just a reflection of the innate ability of children to learn language.

    So by comparing how difficult it is for Kenyan children to learn to speak Kikuyu and Swahili and English to how difficult it would be for you as an adult to learn these 3 languages you are making a false comparison.

    • Replies: @Truth
    @Jack D

    Well Old Sport,look at it another way; in all of those Spanish classes you took as a child, how much do you remember above "Como esta, Usted"?

  289. @Lot
    @res

    That’s what his score report says.

    Look at my other comment. It seems like the 500 mean 100SD was adopted in 1956. The BU data from 1949 says the school’s mean and SD were around 480/70.

    Replies: @res

    That’s what his score report says.

    Right. And I am pointing out that it does not make sense. I trust the numbers more than I trust someone’s attempt to translate them into words. Especially given the person involved.

    Look at my other comment. It seems like the 500 mean 100SD was adopted in 1956.

    You might want to take a closer look at your references. From page three of your second link.

    The previous scales, established in 1947, had been so set that 500 was the mean scaled score on each particular test for a group of seniors majoring in the field covered by that test, and the standard deviation of their scores was 100. A different standardization group was therefore used for each test, with no adjustment made for group differences in ability.

    The change you are observing was discussed in my earlier comment. In 1952 they changed the Advanced Test norming so the scores were adjusted for the relative ability of the group taking a particular subtest.

    MLK’s 1951 score of 470 on the Literature test was below the mean of the people who took that test. It is possible that using a renormed version of his score would push it into the “top quartile” in the sense of being over 567, but I think this unlikely. In a normal distribution the top quartile boundary is +0.67 SD. His score was -0.3 SD.

    As I mentioned in my other comment, in the standardization sample the Literature test takers were +0.64 SD on verbal. They were also -0.37 on quantitative. If I interpret Table 15 in that reference correctly that resulted in a renormed mean of 548 which would give my estimate for his renormed score as 518 (548 – 0.3*99) which is well below (-0.5 SD) 567.

    Given all of that I am unable to see what kind of tortured definition of “top quartile” they could be using that would allow his score to qualify.

    Back to you.

    The BU data from 1949 says the school’s mean and SD were around 480/70.

    That dissertation is 82 pages long. It would help to give a more specific reference. Table 3 on page 52 indicates the mean and SD for their study group of 305 students were 488.1/80.74 on the GRE Literature test. (where did you see 480/70?)

    His 470 was below that mean of 488 as well. To repeat: How does that translate into “top quartile”?

    P.S. In one sense this discussion is a giant waste of time as several commenters have observed. But in another sense it is a quite interesting case study of how personal histories are embellished (or destroyed, cf. Trump). Enough small details fudged here and there and pretty soon you have a completely different person. A good lesson for reading history.

    • Replies: @Lot
    @res

    I don’t see a way to justify the 1951 score report. But the percentiles appear to be from the 1951 original when King was nobody.

    Regarding the BU study, there was no official all subject mean provided that I saw, that was my estimate looking at the subject test means.

    The data tables in the last 1/4 of the paper is the most interesting part.

    Replies: @res

  290. @vhrm
    @res


    More truth than I like in your comment, but it is worth observing that IQ is far from the only characteristic relevant to being an outstanding man (or woman). (I am sure you know this, but I think it is worth being explicit about it)

    I think MLK’s example does make an argument that our test regime underrates blacks relative to their ability to make contributions in some areas.
     
    There's also a question of what makes a person specifically "outstanding". There's a fair amount of luck and "right place right time" (or wrong time wrong place) about who gets remembered by history.

    Some random notable people (all of whom are derided by some or many):
    Greta Thunberg
    Maxine Waters
    Adolph Hitler
    George W Bush
    Donald Trump
    Elizabeth Holmes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theranos ) (who, btw, is the daughter of an Enron vp ?! what? Talk about heritable traits... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Holmes#Early_life ) )

    These people are notable and/or wielded power at some point. Some of them are smart, some of them are so so, some of them are maybe more on the dumb side.

    With MLK Jr, i'm no expert in the Civil Rights movement, but it seems to me that he was a man of his times along for the ride rather than someone of unique insight and vision. If he never existed i'm not sure anything would have been markedly different.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian, @res

    Good observations. Regarding

    With MLK Jr, i’m no expert in the Civil Rights movement, but it seems to me that he was a man of his times along for the ride rather than someone of unique insight and vision. If he never existed i’m not sure anything would have been markedly different.

    That’s an interesting hypothetical. I tend to agree with you, assuming “they” were able to able to find someone to fill his role in a similar fashion (cf. same question for Jackie Robinson in baseball). However, I think having someone like Malcolm X be the face of the Civil Rights movement might have caused things to turn out rather differently. Though I can’t say exactly how (consider succeeding with a more aggressive approach vs. failing because of backlash).

  291. @NJ Transit Commuter
    I’m happy to discuss the good and bad sides of MLK and do find the hagiography surrounding him ridiculous. Unless your mom’s a virgin, none of us are perfect.

    Having said that, Steve, I think you demean yourself by snickering about someone’s low standardized test scores. Didn’t think anyone over 22 did that...

    If I’ve learned anything in life, it’s that there is a positive correlation between success in life and IQ, but its not all that high.

    Replies: @Polistra, @Seth, @Alfa158, @TTSSYF, @Dacian Julien Soros, @Anonymous

    If you “find the hagiography surrounding him ridiculous”, then surely you’ll admit that discussing the standardized test scores of a saint can be informative, even in situations where discussing the scores of, say, a preacher would just be petty.

  292. King’s profound public speaking ability and eloquence in extemporaneous interviews reveals his natural talent with language. If anything, his test scores reveal the inability of these tests to adequately capture human talent in all of its magnificent forms.

    Steve – why do you fetishize these tests so much? And why are you hating on King, of all people? I remember watching an interview with you and being struck by how remarkably dull you were. Jealous of King’s charisma?

    • Replies: @Nicholas Stix
    @DonutsMan

    "King’s profound public speaking ability and eloquence in extemporaneous interviews reveals his natural talent with language."

    Yes; he gave oratory a bad name. Because of him, I cannot trust gifted speakers.

  293. @Anonymouse
    @Charles St. Charles

    I took the GRE in 1958. The test was in 2 parts: verbal and mathematical. AFAIK, a perfect score in each part was 800. I got a perfect score in the verbal part. In the mathematical part, I did fairly well. I don't remember that score number.

    Yes, my parents were jewish. But I didn't kill Him.

    Replies: @Foreign Expert, @Bardon Kaldian, @Cato, @kpkinsunnyphiladelphia, @krustykurmudgeon, @Rich

    Well, some would say, have said, that every day you reject his divinity, you drive another nail into his hands

  294. @Jack D
    @JohnnyWalker123

    Language (any language) is incredibly complex as you say, with all sorts of rules and memorization required, and yet any four year old and all but the most severely retarded adults speak their native language with great fluency and adherence to the rules of grammar. The reason for this is that humans are pre-programmed to pick up language (language in general and not any particular language). Pick up and not learn - 1 year olds don't sit in a class room and study conjugations and tenses. But after puberty the innate language learning capability is pruned away from our brains as something that is no longer needed from an evolutionary perspective and after that you have to learn a new language the same way you learn any other new skill and this is very difficult.

    Some societies are bilingual or even trilingual for historical reasons (usually involving conquest - you have the language of the locals and then the language of the conquerors) so that children must learn two or three languages growing up instead of just one. In America with its many immigrants it's very common for children to speak the language of their parents as well as English. This is no particular sign of intelligence, it's just a reflection of the innate ability of children to learn language.

    So by comparing how difficult it is for Kenyan children to learn to speak Kikuyu and Swahili and English to how difficult it would be for you as an adult to learn these 3 languages you are making a false comparison.

    Replies: @Truth

    Well Old Sport,look at it another way; in all of those Spanish classes you took as a child, how much do you remember above “Como esta, Usted”?

  295. @res
    @Lot


    That’s what his score report says.
     
    Right. And I am pointing out that it does not make sense. I trust the numbers more than I trust someone's attempt to translate them into words. Especially given the person involved.

    Look at my other comment. It seems like the 500 mean 100SD was adopted in 1956.
     
    You might want to take a closer look at your references. From page three of your second link.

    The previous scales, established in 1947, had been so set that 500 was the mean scaled score on each particular test for a group of seniors majoring in the field covered by that test, and the standard deviation of their scores was 100. A different standardization group was therefore used for each test, with no adjustment made for group differences in ability.
     
    The change you are observing was discussed in my earlier comment. In 1952 they changed the Advanced Test norming so the scores were adjusted for the relative ability of the group taking a particular subtest.

    MLK's 1951 score of 470 on the Literature test was below the mean of the people who took that test. It is possible that using a renormed version of his score would push it into the "top quartile" in the sense of being over 567, but I think this unlikely. In a normal distribution the top quartile boundary is +0.67 SD. His score was -0.3 SD.

    As I mentioned in my other comment, in the standardization sample the Literature test takers were +0.64 SD on verbal. They were also -0.37 on quantitative. If I interpret Table 15 in that reference correctly that resulted in a renormed mean of 548 which would give my estimate for his renormed score as 518 (548 - 0.3*99) which is well below (-0.5 SD) 567.

    Given all of that I am unable to see what kind of tortured definition of "top quartile" they could be using that would allow his score to qualify.

    Back to you.

    The BU data from 1949 says the school’s mean and SD were around 480/70.
     
    That dissertation is 82 pages long. It would help to give a more specific reference. Table 3 on page 52 indicates the mean and SD for their study group of 305 students were 488.1/80.74 on the GRE Literature test. (where did you see 480/70?)

    His 470 was below that mean of 488 as well. To repeat: How does that translate into "top quartile"?

    P.S. In one sense this discussion is a giant waste of time as several commenters have observed. But in another sense it is a quite interesting case study of how personal histories are embellished (or destroyed, cf. Trump). Enough small details fudged here and there and pretty soon you have a completely different person. A good lesson for reading history.

    Replies: @Lot

    I don’t see a way to justify the 1951 score report. But the percentiles appear to be from the 1951 original when King was nobody.

    Regarding the BU study, there was no official all subject mean provided that I saw, that was my estimate looking at the subject test means.

    The data tables in the last 1/4 of the paper is the most interesting part.

    • Replies: @res
    @Lot


    But the percentiles appear to be from the 1951 original when King was nobody.
     
    But they don't actually SHOW the percentiles from the score report (or did I miss that enclosed table somehow? Is it available in the actual book?). All they do is give a verbal summary which I am confident was written as part of compiling material for "The Martin Luther King, Jr. Papers Project" which heads the document. That was done after it was decided he was a person of importance.

    Hopefully the analogy to "scientific" papers where the abstract misrepresents the actual contents of the paper is obvious.
  296. @dearieme
    @James Speaks

    ’tis better to be Baroque than woke

    Does that mean that Baroque and woke rhyme in American? I didn't know that.

    Replies: @Jack D

    Does that mean that Baroque and wok rhyme in British English? I didn’t know that.

  297. @dearieme
    @Bardon Kaldian

    Nietzsche, Freud, Jung, Heidegger

    Two of them were charlatans. By which I mean at least two.

    Replies: @Bardon Kaldian

    It doesn’t matter who was a charlatan according to your, or anyone’s criteria. It matters these people were highly creative, intelligent (in any sense of the word) & influential.

    For instance, both Bertrand Russell & Karl Popper thought that Plato’s was the most powerful mind in the history of mankind -and simultaneously, they both considered him to be wrong on virtually all issues they addressed.

  298. @Lot
    @res

    I don’t see a way to justify the 1951 score report. But the percentiles appear to be from the 1951 original when King was nobody.

    Regarding the BU study, there was no official all subject mean provided that I saw, that was my estimate looking at the subject test means.

    The data tables in the last 1/4 of the paper is the most interesting part.

    Replies: @res

    But the percentiles appear to be from the 1951 original when King was nobody.

    But they don’t actually SHOW the percentiles from the score report (or did I miss that enclosed table somehow? Is it available in the actual book?). All they do is give a verbal summary which I am confident was written as part of compiling material for “The Martin Luther King, Jr. Papers Project” which heads the document. That was done after it was decided he was a person of importance.

    Hopefully the analogy to “scientific” papers where the abstract misrepresents the actual contents of the paper is obvious.

  299. “ All they do is give a verbal summary which I am confident was written as part of compiling material for “The Martin Luther King, Jr. Papers Project” which heads the document. That was done after it was decided he was a person of importance.”

    I assumed that too, but if you click through there is what appears to be the original 1951 dated document containing the exact text Steve quoted.

    Maybe it was relative to weaker pool of test takers at Crozier Seminary King was then attending? This may also explain the vague use of quartiles and thirds in a narrative format: it was a small pool and saying he was in the 31st percentile when the pool was 10 or 15 test takers seems odd compared to “bottom third.”

    I stand by my 120-125 IQ estimate.

  300. @Anonymous
    The percentiles are very unimpressive but a much smaller % took GRE then, so I'd expect an average GRE-taker's IQ to be 120-124. This should make MLK's IQ ~90. Slightly smarter than an average black. Which is what you'd expect anyway based on his writings, his life and his children's lack of any visible accomplishments.

    Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter, @Anonymous

    According to this site:
    https://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/GREIQ.aspx
    His IQ should be 79-81 based on a 620 depending on the standard deviation used.

  301. @gcochran
    @Jus' Sayin'...

    For a while in the 1970s, GRE went up to 900.

    Replies: @Desiderius, @Jack Armstrong, @Dan Kurt

    I took the GREs in 1963. Verbal top score was 800 as was Quantitative (Math) and both were truncated. My GRE achievement (field of study) test was scored up to 970.

    Dan Kurt

  302. These tests are not designed to give accurate measures of people who for whatever reason score at the low end. nor are they well calibrated with the general population. Furthermore they are still highly.subject to academic canny. As distinct from intelligence. King went to bad segregated schools and an OK black college. He was highly sensitive and emotional as evidenced by a philosophically motivated suicide attempt at a young age, this can affect motivation. But he was a a rural black in segregated america. His lit score is likely more accurate bc the subject matter was at least not totally alien to him. Grad school tests are rough guides. That is all. His iq is likely 10 to 15 points higher than the estimates here

  303. At least 10-15 points*

  304. @Dacian Julien Soros
    @NJ Transit Commuter

    Tests are Mr Sailers kto? kogo?

    If there's a person he needs to praise (typically a Jew, always an anti-tax rich guy), he gets all "oooh, look at the end of the bell curve, who knew it could be so edgyyyyyy, so shaaaarp".

    If there's a Trump or a Kushner, he manages to find something else to talk about. Absolutely anything will do. Did you know intelligence is multidimensional?

    Replies: @JosephB

    Did you know intelligence is multidimensional?

    Can you sharpen the statement: multidimensional how? G was done by performing a factor analysis on a variety of cognitive tests. It is tautological that having additional factors will perform at least as well as using just one. The question is whether the other factors add considerable variability beyond the first. Generally the answer is “no,” although sometimes a factoring of spatial vs verbal has utility.

    If you mean Gardner’s multiple intelligences, that’s been horribly misunderstood (according to Gardner), as, for example, kinesthetic intelligence, is not helpful for learning academic material. When asked why he didn’t call them “talents,” he said a book about “multiple talents” would not get as much attention.

  305. @DonutsMan
    King's profound public speaking ability and eloquence in extemporaneous interviews reveals his natural talent with language. If anything, his test scores reveal the inability of these tests to adequately capture human talent in all of its magnificent forms.

    Steve - why do you fetishize these tests so much? And why are you hating on King, of all people? I remember watching an interview with you and being struck by how remarkably dull you were. Jealous of King's charisma?

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix

    “King’s profound public speaking ability and eloquence in extemporaneous interviews reveals his natural talent with language.”

    Yes; he gave oratory a bad name. Because of him, I cannot trust gifted speakers.

  306. @Bardon Kaldian
    @Muggles

    Not that I care, but I am inclined to think that all the talk about Obama's gaydom is fiction.

    Certainly there were homos/ephebophiles in history (Plato, Caravaggio, Tchaikovsky, Proust), but from what I know, I would say that the impossible company consisting of Alexander the Great, Caesar, Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo (probably), Shakespeare, Schubert, Richard Francis Burton, Errol Flynn, Cary Grant, Richard Gere, ... were all straight, some of them being asexual.

    Replies: @Nicholas Stix, @Ian Smith

    Re: Richard Francis Burton, there wasn’t any gash between Mogadishu and Mumbai that was safe from that cunning linguist. One of my all time heroes!

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