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Slightly Woozier Thoughts on the Impossibility of Justice
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The other day a friend and I were partaking of the mortal remains of quite a number of defenseless grapes, and the subject of law enforce arose. Having spent a number of years as a police reporter, I began thinking of curious and often erroneous ideas that people have of what we regard as a system of justice. Without meaning to bore the reader, I offer the following thoughts and observations.

First, any system will make mistakes. The only way to convict all of the guilty is to convict everybody. The only way to avoid convicting the innocent is not to convict anyone. The more the system leans in one direction, the more it will err in the other.

Second, it is absurd to accept the Enlightenment idea that a criminal, having “paid his debt to society” by a stint in prison, will come out and make a new start as a normal human. The fact is that most crime is committed by career criminals. An armed robber aged twenty-nine invariably will have a rap sheet dating from puberty of thirteen arrests and a couple of convictions for assault, drug offenses, gun offenses, drugs, and so on. He is not going to make a fresh start.

Third, the complacent adage that “it is better to let ten guilty men go free than to convict one innocent man” may apply in cases of shoplifting. It may not be better to let ten Ted Bundys go free than to convict an innocent. Your choice may depend on whether you have a daughter in college.

Fourth, people charged with crimes by urban police departments are almost always guilty. There are two reasons for this. One is that they are usually caught in the act, driving the stolen car, carrying the illegal gun, or having drugs in their possession. The other is that DA’s won’t paper a case unless they are pretty sure of winning either in court or by plea bargain.

Fifth, the US does not have trial by jury but, in over ninety percent of cases, trial by plea bargain. Crime is so rampant in American cities that many times more courts and prosecutors would be needed for jury trials.

Plea bargaining is convenient for prosecutors but a very bad system. It makes it easy for overzealous or crooked prosecutors to take advantage of suspects with little or no legal representation. It can, and sometime does, work against what we regard as normal people.

Suppose you are a suburban white man walking through a shaky part of the city without knowing it to be a red-light district, and you get unfairly arrested for solicitation of a prostitute. Your choice is to plead down to public lewdness or some such with a fine of five hundred dollars, or go to trial, lose your marriage, and maybe get three years. Which?

Yes, this can happen. Ages ago in my police-reporter days I walked one evening on Fourteenth Street, then a hooker venue. One of the girls said, “You sportin,’ honey?” Another lady of the evening stepped closer, as if to listen to my answer. I strongly suspected the first to be Cookie Marino, a police plant in the anti-sex trade force.

Solicitation was then defined as offering a specific price for a specific act. A guy with no interest could easily kid around (“I want five girls. I’ll give you a thousand dollars each.”) and get arrested. Then what?

Sixth, almost all of the celebrated shootings and brutality by police result from disobeying a cop’s orders. If a minion of the law tells you to stop and put your hands up, do it. You can sue later.

Seventh, drug rehab is a scam. The judge doesn’t want to send the addict to prison, since prisons are overflowing, but doesn’t want to let him go, and look soft on crime, so he sentences him to rehab, which he knows doesn’t work, but it becomes somebody else’s problem.

Eighth, jury trials are largely fraudulent. You are supposed to be tried by a jury of your peers. This was a good idea since it made it difficult for the government to railroad people it didn’t like. In today’s climate of racial hatred, “one’s peers” has to mean of one’s own race. A white jury is not unlikely to acquit a white charged with beating a black (Rodney King) and a black jury is very likely to acquit a black charged with killing a white (OJ Simpson).

Further, in theory the jury is supposed to consider the facts dispassionately and come to a reasoned verdict. Good luck with that. A jury of theoretical physicists might approach this ideal. In jury selection both prosecutors and defense attorney will try to impanel jurors emotionally biased in their favor.

For example, in a rape case the prosecutor will want a jury consisting of man-hating feminists and he will coach the victim to look sweet and defenseless. The defense will want a jury of primitive rural Christians who will think that if she was in that bar, in that neighborhood, with THAT Dress up to her armpits, she damned well deserved what she got. Yes, this is exaggerated, but it is how they think.

Ninth, it is not always clear what the country believes to be the purpose of prison.

Is the purpose to punish? Then prison should be harsh. If it isn’t disagreeable, it isn’t punishment.

It the purpose to deter? Then it should ed godawful as otherwise it will not deter.

Should vengeance be an acceptable purpose? In the case of someone selling marijuana, no—but the psychopath who tortured three girls to death? Your answer to this may depend on whether it was your daughter.

Is the purpose to rehabilitate? Then prison should be pleasant, with libraries, online courses, and training in auto mechanics, carpentry, and bricklaying.

Is the purpose to protect the public? Then the answer is long sentences’ whether in pleasant circumstance or not. Since the only thing that more or less reliably decreases criminality is age, sentences might read “until middle age.”

Tenth, the current system virtually guarantees recidivism. A black guy with a fourth-grade education goes to jail for fifteen years at age twenty-five. He comes out at age forty with no money, no acquaintances on the outside, and zero employability. What precisely do we expect him to do? Realistically there is no practical answer to this question. He understands armed robbery and dope sales. These are all he understands.

My only answer to all of this is what a friend, a public defender, told me: “Don’t ever—ever—get into the hands of the criminal justice system.”

Finally, it is worth remembering that few actually care about guilt or innocence. Trial attorneys are combative and want to win. An assistant DA does not rise in rank by losing cases. The defense guy, or gal, gains fame and clients by acquitting clients and do so even if they know the perp is guilty.

Write Fred at jetpossum@gmail.com Put the letters pdq anywhere in the subject line to avoid heartless autodeletion.

 

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• Category: Ideology • Tags: Crime, Judicial System 
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  1. Uncle Al says: • Website

    Justice is what you deserve. The Gulag is what you get. Sacrifice that the One Party be ever victorious! Amerizuela wants you poor, miserable, enslaved, and dead; and ever-believing within your heart-of-hearts. How do you know you are being governed unless you bleed?

    0) All elections at all levels are treason. The One Party – by divine rule.
    1) Rule by executive order – puppet Big Bro’ Joe in his showy robes.
    2) Corruption of the judiciary, judges and process, at all levels.
    3) Show trials and execution of predecessor.
    4) Pursuit and purges of former officials.
    5) Media as propaganda (Goebbels Goebbes; one of us, one of us!).
    6) Crippling the private sector. Most Beloved Leader is mother. Most Beloved Leader is father.
    7) Absolute opposition censorship
    8) Absolute surveillance of all people at all times.
    9) Exploitation of social hatreds.
    10) Active military suppression of lawful citizenry.
    11) Selective extermination of nuisance populations.

    If people are made to believe absurdities, then they are remade to accept atrocities.

    • Agree: Johnny Walker Read
    • Replies: @Wild Bill
    , @Jett Rucker
  2. anon[712] • Disclaimer says:

    I wouldn’t disagree with anything said in this article. The “justice system” is in a very bad state and only will get worse with the Biden regime. Just look at Kyle Rittenhouse, I hate to think what’s in the future for him with DA’s that only want to make a name for themselves and would send their own mother to the electric chair if it meant furthering their miserable careers.

  3. Last year, I spent six months serving on a Grand Jury, and learned more than I wanted to know about a lot of things:

    Cops go for the easy bust. There was a known drug house in the neighborhood. The cops watched people come and go. When the customer left, the cops would follow until the suspect committed a traffic violation. People don’t know their rights, so the cop searches the car. Easy drug bust. The house never gets raided…

    Cops stop and search somebody on the street. They find drugs. The prosecutor isn’t allowed to tell us that the arrestee was subject to random search because he was already on parole.

    If people would keep their mouth shut, the prosecutor would toss out 70% of the cases for lack of evidence

    The function of the Grand Jury is to review the charges to determine if there is probable cause. The prosecutor doesn’t want to waste our time or theirs. If they bring charges, they’re generally warranted.

  4. That was one of your best columns in a long, long while, Mr. Reed. Hardly a piece of bull is in sight. I have been associated with the “justice” system only with respect to traffic violations, very regularly for a while. Even there, you learn a little bit of the great observations and advice given here.

    I have one more piece of advice and then will point out one error:

    The advice: As much as you probably can’t stand lawyers (who can?), get one unless you are willing to be found guilty. It’s not so much that the court doesn’t respect those who try to defend themselves, but they don’t like it because it takes away from their business. All sides don’t like the guy that defends himself in court.

    The error:

    A white jury is not unlikely to acquit a white charged with beating a black (Rodney King) and a black jury is very likely to acquit a black charged with killing a white (OJ Simpson).

    Bullshit. It may go this way as white people become a minority and finally get tribal, but this is not the way it goes right now. A white jury is a fairer jury.

    This is not to take away from your observations of how jurors are picked. I’ve never been picked out of 3 or 4 times in the pool because I have a decent occupation. It seems like both lawyers want dummies who each (lawyer) thinks he will be the best at bullshitting. My occupation wasn’t paying much at the time, so once, in a nasty cash-flow situation, I stuck around to watch the DUI case just for the 15 bucks – see “A lesson in DUI for the broke guy”.

  5. Nice post, Fred, as always.
    That being said —- there are lots of defense lawyers in the USA who “roll” their clients, particularly the clients who are not gonna be repeat customers paying repeat retainers.

    ALSO, FRED, I KNOW YOU KNOW THIS —- in some countries, there are gangs which are not a problem, in other countries the gangs are a problem. In the first set of countries, when the sort of kid who is gonna someday be high in the gang rapes his first woman or attacks his first little old lady robbery victim, members of society make sure to terminate him, either by letting him be killed or letting him go away to jail until he is too old to be a threat. In the second set of countries, everyone is cynical, sort of like you but way worse, and don’t give enough of a fuck, and hence they have serious problems with gangs.

    But you knew all that. I just commented to help out your readers understand their world.

  6. Biff says:

    The justice system is a “racket” for the purpose of punitive extraction. A racket is defined as an “insiders game” where the rules favor a select few functionaries.

    Guilty or innocent – perp or victim – you will never receive justice in any sense of the word – it’s a racket where all proceeds flow in one direction..

  7. The USA legal system seems to be the most corrupt of all in the developed world, with European business people quietly sharing stories of how much US courts are soiled by white-shoe law firms bribing US judges for US oligarchs and companies

    As commenter ‘very old statistician’ suggests, US lawyers often sell out their clients, this ranges from expensive lawyers betraying European businesses, to ‘public defenders’ who only keep their jobs by extorting plea-bargains from innocent black guys (“Sure you’re innocent, but it’s 3-5 years on a plea, or 25 years if you go to trial, whaddaya wanna do?”) … USA lawyers are known worldwide as massively corrupt

    An ex-DOJ employee and Harvard-educated legal scholar I know, forced into exile in Europe after threats to murder him involving US federal judges, gives a FAQ on US Judicial and Legal Corruption:

    A Guide for the Perplexed victims of US legal corruption, particularly common working people, minorities, and the vulnerable, when mauled by sadistic lying judges and gangster lawyers. Legal injustice victims are often in agony, mystified by how no one seems willing to help, after betrayal and abuse by courts, counsel, prosecutors, politicians, media, and bent ‘bar ethics’ and ‘civil liberties’ groups. Victims here find truth on what is happening, and the comfort of knowing they are not alone.

    • Replies: @thotmonger
    , @WJ
    , @Ray Caruso
  8. @Achmed E. Newman

    Even The Sentencing Project (= not exactly the Klan) had to admit that even all-White juries convict blacks less often (and to lower sentences) and the disparity is greatest when the perp and the jury are black and the victim White.

    It´s a Sibbyl Rites thing – you wouldn´t understand.

  9. Had to throw in the Christian bashing. Otherwise an excellent article.

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Replies: @Reactionary Utopian
  10. You will find Justice in the next world, in this world there is the Law. Though the latter can often support the former, the Law is noticeably affected by not only politics but more specifically the politics of the day.

    I found a database that publishes the judicial rulings of several courts in Canada and find it to be endlessly fascinating reading. Often the rulings reflect very wise judgement but these would be in cases which would be totally apolitical such as a divorce between well heeled white people.

    Where there is a noticeable derailment is when some “teens” become involved in zany antics like rape, assault or prostitution. When reading through the summary of the facts of the case and infusing yourself as the perpetrator instead of little Porchmonque, you would get a feeling of impending doom.

    But alas, the little scamp was just acting out and a slap on the wrist will set him straight. His lighter hued peer would not be so lucky no doubt because of some memo to the judge about privilege. Sorry but it is very noticeable.

    The all time losers in the jurisprudence lottery are bikers. It was not always so but lately it has become so that they might as well just take a deal, any deal because the system also makes a point of extra-punishing individuals who request a trial and waste their time and resources. I guess the system realized that they had no political value having lost the “freedom rider” mystique with ‘normies’ and soy-boys as well as having the “toxic masculinity’ thing going.

    And of course, non violent transgressions such as publishing the wrong kind of history will bring forth legal gymnastics that would make Kafka’s world look like disciplining Otis in Mayberry USA. Turn your TV off. The world of idealistic prosecutors, impassioned defenders, truthful LEOs and the wise old (((judge))) is a propaganda loop. The advise Fredo got from the public defender is understated.

    Cheers-

    • Replies: @Tom Rogers
  11. bj0311 says:

    How can I be expected to obey the law when it takes an “expert” to interpret it?

    The US has the most lawyers per capita of any other country in the world.

    The term “criminal justice” is as oxymoronic as the term “military intelligence”.

    You know for first or second nonviolent offenders why don’t we have military-style work battalions wherein a young offender could be exposed to the virtues of discipline and hard work. It seems like a civilized country could come up with something like this patterned after the Civilian Conservation Corps. There are a whole lot of helpful things that could be done and it might even give these offenders a new and better outlook on life.

    The thing that makes me angriest about the state the US is in today is all of the whiners and destroyers are individuals who have built nothing and suffered nothing yet want to tear down everything. Like the revolutionaries in the Tsar’s Russia, it is the privileged who have nothing to complain about who are causing all the trouble.

    • Agree: Gordon K. Shumway
    • Replies: @Ray Huffman
    , @follyofwar
  12. I was at a party of lawyers who, like Mr Reed, were presiding over the mortal remains of grapes (and grains). Smashed, the Defence Attorneys explained that their job is to get the accused to fork over as much cash in advance as possible. Once they’ve gotten the cash, their job is done. Wasting time defending their client, for which they do not get any more money, is a career limiting move. Seeking out more accused and convincing them that hiring you guarantees an acquittal (payment in advance) is the activity that brings in the bucks and the promotions.
    I met one young lawyer who had gotten a job as an assistant prosecutor, but he was so incompetent that many of his defendants received very short sentences, so he took a job as a Public Defender where he always admits his clients’ guilt and agrees to whatever sentence the prosecutor requests.

    • Replies: @mocissepvis
  13. @FredReeder

    The house never gets raided…

    There’s another, plausible explanation for that. The law-abiding citizenry aren’t the only ones who believe in supporting their local police.

    • Replies: @Gordon K. Shumway
  14. @Achmed E. Newman

    I’ve never been picked out of 3 or 4 times in the pool because I have a decent occupation.

    I’ve always subscribed to the school of thought that it could not possibly be a jury of my peers if they couldn’t even get out of jury duty.

    I tacked on a law degree a few years back to give me a leg up on the overpriced “legal” opinions I inevitably have to take for fiduciary reasons, but the grounding it gave me in some aspects of criminal law is useful for helping me to conclude I would not try to represent myself (though I wouldn’t hesitate to informally second-chair my counsellor).

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  15. The “justice system” is a sausage machine which in times past had the primary purpose of taking certain personalities out of the gene pool, albeit with great imprecision and widespread “collateral damage”. Due to the widespread, and erroneous, belief in the power of psychotherapy to amend these personalities it no longer serves this purpose except in extreme cases of psychopathology.

    The current state of affairs is not sustainable. “If something cannot go on it will stop.” The only question is whether or not the future political state will have the cojones to confront the problem openly with “law and order” or whether the future “powers that be” will allow (use?) disease to address the problem.

  16. ruralguy says:

    True, but…

    A lawyer’s task to to resolve disputes over laws and facts/evidence with his opposing attorney. A plea deal is often a key indication they are doing their job right. If the dispute goes to a jury trial, then one of them is almost certainly seeking a Hail-Mary pass.

    • Replies: @Rev. Spooner
  17. Patta says:

    Thanks very interesting, getting out explicitly the facts may help overcome the impossible.

  18. @The Alarmist

    Makes sense. Money from the customers, legally, and house money under the table. Win-win if you’re a bent cop.

  19. “Second, it is absurd to accept the Enlightenment idea that a criminal, having “paid his debt to society” by a stint in prison, will come out and make a new start as a normal human. The fact is that most crime is committed by career criminals. An armed robber aged twenty-nine invariably will have a rap sheet dating from puberty of thirteen arrests and a couple of convictions for assault, drug offenses, gun offenses, drugs, and so on. He is not going to make a fresh start.“

    True to an extent, but it is also true that crime is a young man’s game. By the time they are 50 the ones that haven’t already removed themselves from the gene pool will invariably grow weary of and cease violent criminal activity (although sex offenders seem to be an exception to this).

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  20. Notsofast says:
    @FredReeder

    grand juries have been abused for political purposes forever, hence the old adage “you can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich”.

  21. @FredReeder

    Cops go for the easy bust. There was a known drug house in the neighborhood. The cops watched people come and go. When the customer left, the cops would follow until the suspect committed a traffic violation. People don’t know their rights, so the cop searches the car. Easy drug bust. The house never gets raided…

    Right. Anarcho-tyranny.

    If people would keep their mouth shut, the prosecutor would toss out 70% of the cases for lack of evidence

    I’d be willing to bet that over half of people in jail/prison are there because they either talked to cops, which is pretty much never required, or consented to searches. The only words out of your mouth should be “I don not consent to any searches” and “I do not wish to speak with you without an attorney present.” It is very important that you positively invoke this latter, as courts have ruled that, if you haven’t, your silence can be used against you in some limited circumstances.

    • Agree: dfordoom, Thim
    • Replies: @FredReeder
  22. This article is another one of the surprisingly good essays by Fred, who veers wildly between complete garbage and excellent.

    When he sticks to what he knows: his visits to China, his knowledge of the military, and his beat as a crime reporter–he’s got something to say.

    All the other nonsense–evolution, illegal immigration, 9-11, etc.–he’s in an alternate dimension of dementia.

    This article is pretty good except for this:

    Second, it is absurd to accept the Enlightenment idea that a criminal, having “paid his debt to society” by a stint in prison, will come out and make a new start as a normal human. The fact is that most crime is committed by career criminals. An armed robber aged twenty-nine invariably will have a rap sheet dating from puberty of thirteen arrests and a couple of convictions for assault, drug offenses, gun offenses, drugs, and so on. He is not going to make a fresh start.

    Fred, if there are absolutely NO routes for the released prisoner to make a fresh start, and a ton of opprobrium heaped on him from the society? The Finnish model of prisons is humane, preventing the cruelty of the US and UK penitentiaries and then helping the released reintegrate. Blaming the convict, Fred, is ignorant you should know better.

  23. @bj0311

    You know for first or second nonviolent offenders why don’t we have military-style work battalions wherein a young offender could be exposed to the virtues of discipline and hard work. It seems like a civilized country could come up with something like this patterned after the Civilian Conservation Corps.

    They tried something like that back in the ’90s. It didn’t work. The recidivism rate was the same.

    • Replies: @Majority of One
  24. Charles says:

    As a younger man, early 30s, I was twice compelled to serve jury duty, not understanding how to evade it. The last time I was called, however, when one of the attorneys asked us, the prospective jurors, if we had any valid reason to not be there, I said “Well I don’t think any of us WANT to be here”. I was then dismissed.

    • Replies: @Majority of One
    , @3g4me
  25. Fred Reed: “… the Impossibility of Justice”

    On the contrary, justice (i.e., “fairness”) is quite possible, but the problem is that it doesn’t exist as an objective metric. What seems fair to me might seem unfair to you, and vice versa. Imagining that there is such a thing as objective justice is an illusion, an attempt to impose a human sense of fairness on an unfair world, where talents and advantages are unequally distributed. How can there be justice when life itself isn’t fair? But the illusion serves society, helping to stabilize it, and people pretend to believe it even though a little thought shows it doesn’t make much sense. So everyone plays along; everyone, that is, except the criminals.

    Fred Reed: “Should vengeance be an acceptable purpose? In the case of someone selling marijuana, no—but the psychopath who tortured three girls to death? Your answer to this may depend on whether it was your daughter.”

    It’s basic Darwinism (so of course Fred Reed can’t accept it) that man exists in a state of war; war with the natural world, war with other people as individuals, and war with society itself. Sometimes a modus vivendi is reached, but other times it isn’t. As Charles Manson said in one of his interviews: “I can do anything I want to you, because of what [society has] done to me.” That’s fair enough, isn’t it?

  26. @Ray Huffman

    I can see where a prosecutor could get a Grand Jury to indict a ham sandwich. In my group, we had several jurors that indicted everybody, simply because they figured “the prosecutor wouldn’t press charges if he didn’t have a case”. I hoped that I’d never be in front of them!

    I lunched with several of the other jurors, and we really tried hard to be fair and impartial, and to give the benefit of the doubt. However, so many of the defendants admitted their guilt, some believing “honesty is the best policy” and would result in leniencey. Honesty only results in a quick conviction.

    Over the course of my service, three different prosecutors presented their cases to us. I spoke with each of them, and they said that between 2/3 and 3/4 of their cases were built on self-incrimination

  27. @brabantian

    I disagree. At least it did not used to be as bad in USA as in other third world nations where the corruption was grandfathered in. For example, I heard from an old gf courtroom clerk (criminal division) with 30 years experience that told me the sort of corruption common in the Philippines (e.g. bribing judges) really did not happen in the CA courthouse.

    • Replies: @Getaclue
  28. Now might be a good time to revive some versions of the Benedictine Monasteries? Give the wayward souls some more options. Or put another way

    • Thanks: Majority of One
  29. • Replies: @Spanky
    , @Mulga Mumblebrain
  30. @Hapalong Cassidy

    The sharp drop in criminality occurs – in both blacks and whites – at age 25
    (tentatively associated with maturation of the frontal lobes; or maybe just family orientation)
    but black geezers are still more bilent than White yoof.

    So it´s concentration camps for males 14-26? 😀

  31. @Gordon K. Shumway

    Had to throw in the Christian bashing.

    Yeah, I have to wonder how many actual Christians he’s acquainted with. Write what you know, Fred, not what you don’t know.

  32. Wayne says:

    “There is no justice, only due process.”

  33. @The Alarmist

    I’ve always subscribed to the school of thought that it could not possibly be a jury of my peers if they couldn’t even get out of jury duty.

    Haha, that sounds as good as a Mark Twain quote, Alarmist!

    In my case mentioned, as per the post I linked to, my time at that point was worth so little that I didn’t mind at all going, but, after being tossed off the list, I stayed for that DUI case because I didn’t want to wait a week for the 15 bucks! I wanted it that day. Yeah, it was a cash-flow thing. Some years later, I got notices to appear, and I even wrote on one letter back “I can’t come. Why didn’t you ask me 5 years ago. I’d have come every day!”

    • Replies: @Jim Bob Lassiter
  34. @bj0311

    When I was in Army Basic Training in 1971 I met guys who were given the option of enlisting in the Army or going to jail. If these guys were disruptive and rebelled against military discipline, then they could be discharged and sent to jail to complete their sentences. I don’t know if this program still exists or not, but it seems to be a worthy idea. I’d love to see some Antifa soy boys sentenced to two years in the army instead of being booked for rioting and mayhem then immediately released by crack-pot leftist DA’s and judges.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @europeasant
  35. @ruralguy

    Crap arguement —A lawyer’s task to to resolve disputes over laws and facts/evidence with his opposing attorney. A plea deal is often a key indication they are doing their job right.
    A Hail Mary pass————-A Hail Mary pass is a very long forward pass in American football, typically made in desperation, with only a small chance of success.
    Therefore it is blackmail by the judiciary.

    • Agree: Gordon K. Shumway
    • Replies: @ruralguy
  36. @restless94110

    The Finnish model of prisons is humane, preventing the cruelty of the US and UK penitentiaries and then helping the released reintegrate.

    There is something in what you say here but the raw material fed into the Finnish system is probably an order of magnitude better to those going into the US/UK systems.

  37. @follyofwar

    That was in place all the way through the Gulf War in 1991 because an older kid in our neighborhood (I was 17 in 1991) was busted for selling acid at his college & his Dad convinced the judge to allow him to join the Marines.

    Considering the Gulf War syndrome he got, I think he would have been better in jail.

    Anyhow, he was a hippy liberal arts type, so he was bitter about it. In August we heard he was busted for selling LSD at college & in March we heard he had an awful case of Gulf War syndrome.

    However, he got a medical discharge.

    Does a stint in the Marines or the Army improve bad actors? I would say 70 percent of the time no. We now know that Jeff Dahmer, whose father forced him to join the army as a combat medic, raped several other soldiers though the German government believes he never committed a murder in Germany. At any rate, he washed out.

  38. One thing Fred left out is that the average guy on the street has no idea just how seriously evil a lot of criminals can be.

    A friend of mine was a guard in the prison in Reidsville, Georgia. One of the inmates had caught his girlfriend with another man, so he took her into some woods and hung her over a tree limb by her hands. He then proceeded to skin her alive using a pocket knife and catfish skinning pliers. He got her skinned from the neck to the waist before she died.

    The fact that people know so little about the depth of actual crime tends to warp their ideas about what constitutes justice.

    • Agree: another fred, 3g4me
    • Replies: @another fred
  39. @Reactionary Utopian

    Fred used to claim he’s Presbyterian, but AFAIK, he’s never professed any faith in the Gospel. His knowledge of Christianity appears limited to two things: 1) The apostate version practiced by denominations like the PC-USA where biblical morality is despised, 2) The bigoted stereotypes about true Christians that are the coin of the realm among the apostates. If that’s all I knew of Christianity, I’d think it was the worst thing in the world.

  40. The Criminal Justice System.

    It’s not about Criminals, it’s not about Justice. It’s ALL about The System.

  41. Ragno says:

    I began thinking of curious and often erroneous ideas that people have of what we regard as a system of justice. Without meaning to bore the reader-

    Too late.

    • LOL: Ray Huffman
  42. @restless94110

    All the other nonsense–evolution, illegal immigration, 9-11, etc.–he’s in an alternate dimension of dementia.

    Fred is correct about those three things, too.

    • Replies: @restless94110
  43. After the “affluenza” acquittal case, where 2 died and the 3rd one almost joins the first two, it cemented my opinion that there is no justice.

    It is whatever your money can buy. Same as politics.

    • Replies: @Spanky
  44. This article looks good superficially, however, it hides some real garbage and implicitly defends some very essential reasons why things are the way they are today.

    • Agree: Ugetit
  45. @Ray Huffman

    Here in Minnesota, back in the days when it was more culturally than “woke” liberal, the state’s penological folks came up with something which actually worked. It was for juvenile offenders. Located on Thistledew Lake in a very sparsely populated forested area in northeastern Minnesota; it was established as a type of ‘outward bound’ experience.

    Camp Thistledew had the boys chopping wood and other outdoor activities including both woodcraft and forestry lessons which were lived in the great outdoors and not in some stuffy classroom. Though they also taught basic educational subjects in classroom situations, the entire approach was to connect these mostly urban young offenders with real life—in the natural world where the focus was on a somewhat traditional “coming of age” as part of something other than the near totally abstract world which most Americans experience on a day to day basis.

    Rewards including canoeing on the lake, daily swimming during the warmer parts of the year, learning how to fillet fish and other modes by which boys could develop their own senses of accomplishment and of budding manhood. During the time of its existence, Camp Thistledew had the lowest recidivism rate of any penological facility in the state. A fourth or even fewer of the youths re-offended.

    Currently, Minnesota’s Bureau of Prisons offers rather hard-core boot-camps for adult offenders who have not yet become totally institutionalized and are considered as possible to reform. This is also a largely outdoor situation,, but because it is based almost entirely on a military model, does not, to my knowledge offer much more than time off the sentence. Unlike Finland and Norway, there does not appear to be a serious rehabilitation effort under this system.

    Best approach is to get them while they are young and still relatively flexible and not set in their misguided ways. The Thistledew experiment worked, but they dropped it. Why? Perhaps it worked too well. After all, the most totally corrupted “justice” system in the developed world needs to have a steady flow of clientele to keep those shekels rolling in.

    • Replies: @3g4me
    , @Dave Bowman
  46. @Charles

    If jurors were as Well-paid as the judges, lawyers, court-reporters, bailiffs ad nauseam and if their employers were informed that they would find life uncomfortable if they did not grant sufficient time off for this civic duty; it might just be possible that more individuals would not consider such duty to be so undesirable. Perhaps an added incentive would allow each serving juror to cast TWO ballots in the next election in their particular state.

    Creative approaches to justice reform aren’t welcomed by a highly inbred and corrupted “one size fits all” system that is set up to discourage jury trials, a right guaranteed by our tattered Constitution. Juries also need to be informed that they have the right to find on the law as well as on the facts. When the Founders created our original judicial system, the right of WE THE PEOPLE to find on the laws as to whether or not it served the cause of justice. In their system of checks and balances, those gentlemen who established this nation favored this system of JURY NULLIFICATION in order to transform such bad laws into dead letter laws.

    Nury nullification worked all too well. The elites who have been running this country since the assassination of Abe Lincoln, with their egregious Act of 1871, soon schmoozed up corrupt judges who soon managed to harshly put down jurors who were exercising their very most important civic duty by FINDING ON THE LAW.

  47. Rob McX says:
    @Dr. Robert Morgan

    Imagining that there is such a thing as objective justice is an illusion, an attempt to impose a human sense of fairness on an unfair world, where talents and advantages are unequally distributed. How can there be justice when life itself isn’t fair? But the illusion serves society, helping to stabilize it, and people pretend to believe it even though a little thought shows it doesn’t make much sense.

    At least a fairly stable consensus on what justice is can be achieved in a homogeneous society. More diversity means a wider range of opinion on what constitutes theft, cheating, reasonable force, etc.

  48. @Dr. Robert Morgan

    A totally negative, rationalistic Hobbesian point of view. Although unfairness is written in stone in most human institutions, we humans do happen to be spirits living in a third dimensional material lifetime. Darwinism,materialism, Cartesianism, Existentialism are all rationalistic,materialistic shit dreamt up by those the Germans would describe as “Sitzfleisch Philosophs”. (Those who philosophize sitting on their lardy asses all day).

    • Thanks: John Fisher
  49. Lee says:

    In my youth, young men who were repeat offenders of petty crimes such as school truancy,simple B & E, and shop lifting were often sent off to a work camp adjacent to a state prison.The wayward youths were expected to work in the acres of fields surrounding the camp that grew all types of vegetables that fed the prisoners.Chopping weeds,plowing with a mule,and watering/fertilizing the crops were all part of it.

    Guards on horseback patrolled the fields and if anyone was found slacking off or creating any problems could expect to be thumped by their ever present baton.Repeat offenders were few.

    I ran into one of this wayward youths a few years ago. His last offense before a 2 month stint in the work camp was for breaking street lights.He laughed about it and said that he hadn’t had so much as parking ticket in the 40 years since then.

    • Thanks: ruralguy
  50. GMC says:

    “You have the right to be Silent – use that Right ” — ” Because they can Indict a peanut butter and jelly sandwich – if They want”. This was on the front and back of a lawyers business card I recieved. She was 100% right. She was 100% bad ass – winning Lady Lawyer – too !

  51. @restless94110

    The Finnish model of prisons is humane, preventing the cruelty of the US and UK penitentiaries and then helping the released reintegrate. Blaming the convict, Fred, is ignorant you should know better.

    Be cautious about believing “puff pieces” about Finnish prisons or schools. Such puff pieces by the press have become popular in the post-glasnost.
    Judiciary in Finland has long been corrupted by something called DEMLA ( Democratic Lawyers ) and is nurturing criminal behaviour by passing suspended sentences. I have that from a social worker who deals with the results.

    The public is often aghast at light sentences for serious crimes.
    Here an example:

    New York Post
    Triple murderer escapes from Finnish jail for sixth time

    By Post Staff Report
    November 23, 2011 | 1:53pm
    https://nypost.com/2011/11/23/triple-murderer-escapes-from-finnish-jail-for-sixth-time/

    KERAVA, Finland — A triple murderer escaped from a Finnish jail for the sixth time Wednesday, just weeks before he was due to be released.
    Nikita Fouganthine — who previously was convicted of killing a married couple and their teenage son in a graveyard in Amsele, northeastern Sweden, in 1988 — was serving time for drunk driving.
    Fouganthine, who changed his name several times over the years, was sentenced to life in prison for the killing and deported to Finland to serve his sentence, where he was granted a conditional release in 2009.
    […]

    Of course, the nature of prison inmates is changing due to ‘cultural enrichment’ brought about by open borders policies in the Euro Union, as is the nature of crime.
    The above murderer is a native son who kept changing his name.

    • Replies: @restless94110
  52. Ugetit says:

    The fact is that most crime is committed by career criminals.

    And yet “we” keep voting repeat offenders into positions of power.

    Understatement of the millennium.:

    First, any system will make mistakes.

  53. gotmituns says:

    All jails for our criminal class should be up in upper Alaska and the top of Greenland and should reflect the old Gulag.

  54. @anon

    I looked up an update on Kyle Rittenhouse, since you had mentioned him, and it appears that the district attorney’s office is harassing him while he’s out on bail. They are after him for consuming alcohol, even though the context in which did it in Wisconsin is legal, he’s 18 years old and was a company with an adult, and they claim that he was flashing the OK sign or white power sign. They say he did not update his address soon enough when he moved. They are trying to re-arrest him increase his bail by $200,000! Unbelievable. It’s so obviously it’s politically motivated harassment. I mean we in the know, understand there’s really no such thing as white power signs. If you scrutinize a series of videos or pictures you can always find some hand posture that can be called a gesture. Orwellian in the extreme. Heck, even Orwell didn’t dream up that one!

    • Replies: @A.K.Patal
  55. WJ says:
    @brabantian

    After Leonel Torres Herrera’s brother died, they tried to pin the murders on him. How convenient. F him. He got what he deserved.

  56. Demguy says:

    I was the alternate on a jury. The defendant got into a verbal fight with his baby momma. He wound up breaking her car door handle and confessed to the arresting officer (big mistake). Convicted of assault and being a repeat offender got him 15 years for a $100 door handle.

    With medicaid, food stamps and prison cost, probably looking at close to a million dollar door handle. The procecutor was evil, imo, and his defense attorney was incompetent. Judge wanted a conviction. Jury deliberated at 6pm, hungry and tired.

    Defendant was 30 year old black male working at a car wash, clean record for at least 3 years, and the jury was solid white professional.

    This case has haunted me for 2 years. From this experience, I concluded that our justice system is mostly evil. I thank God I was the alternate because I probably would have gone along with the crowd even though I had a lot of questions driving home that night, like, what the heck was that all about?

    • Replies: @stevennonemaker88
  57. In a nation of hundreds of millions with tens of millions of criminals and millions of financially dependent parties (judges, lawyers, court staff, bailbonds men, prison officials, parole officers, prison builders, politicians who depend upon all of the above etc.) it would be difficult get justice.

    • Replies: @Ugetit
    , @Marckus
  58. ruralguy says:
    @Rev. Spooner

    Crap argument? Are you self reflecting? On average, 95% of all criminal and civil cases are settled without a trial. Only 2% of Federal criminal cases go to trial. Most Americans seem to base their view of law on the emotional drama of TV and movie jury trials. In the real world, it’s a calm and deliberate legal process for resolving disputes over laws and evidence/facts. In civil cases, they are usually resolved in legal memorandums between opposing attorneys and in shared discovery and pleadings. When the attorneys do their job right, it’s done without drama.

    • Replies: @another fred
    , @Getaclue
  59. @The Grate Deign

    The fact that people know so little about the depth of actual crime tends to warp their ideas about what constitutes justice.

    This is compounded by belief in the therapeutic message and the inherent “goodness” of all human beings.

    Like the apocryphal optimistic little boy, digging for a pony in a pile of manure, they believe that the criminal can be “cured” of his pathology.

    This is not to say that criminals do not “age out” as hormone balances change. They do, and the damage they do lessens, but there is a high price to achieving this end.

    • Replies: @very old statistician
  60. Spanky says:

    Careful Fred…

    That little primer might be more reality than most Americans can handle.

    My only answer to all of this is what a friend, a public defender, told me: “Don’t ever—ever—get into the hands of the criminal justice system.”
    — Fred Reed

    Couldn’t agree more, but what’s gonna happen when the “criminal justice system” is fully weaponized against ideological non-conformists?

    • Replies: @gotmituns
  61. HT says:
    @FredReeder

    Since no knock warrants are now frowned upon, raiding drug houses is a whole lot harder and more dangerous. Look what happened to those cops in Louisville who went into Breonna Taylor’s place to arrest a drug dealer. Their lives were completely destroyed. Who can blame cops for busting customers after the purchase? They do that often enough and it will destroy the drug seller. Arresting the user as we used to do would be the best way to wreck the drug trade.

  62. Ugetit says:
    @Temporary Insanity

    … and millions of financially dependent parties (judges, lawyers, court staff, bailbonds men, prison officials, parole officers, prison builders, politicians who depend upon all of the above etc.) it would be difficult get justice.

    Well, ya know, according to Fred,

    any system will make mistakes.

    And, I might add, the ‘mistakes” tend to increase exponentially when they’re baked into the cake from the start.

    I’d also like to add that those advocating a military type rehab should be aware that it’s long been known that militaries are composed of riff raff in general.

    Churchill, a major scum F*ck himself, commented that the navy was all about rum, sodomy and the lash and he was no doubt being generous.

    “The experience of all ages, and the observations of both the historian and the philosopher agree, that a standing army is the most ready engine in the hand of despotism, to debase the powers of the human mind, and eradicate the manly spirit of freedom.

    The people have certainly everything to fear from a government, when the springs of its authority are fortified only by a standing military force.

    Wherever an army is established, it introduces a revolution in manners, corrupts the morals, propagates every species of vice, and degrades the human character.”

    -Mercy Otis Warren, Revolution-era historian,
    History of the Rise, Progress, and Termination of the American Revolution vol. 1, Ch3, 1805

    http://oll.libertyfund.org/?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php%3Ftitle=1872

    Mercy was correct and she could have said , with validity, the same thing about bureaucratic “systems” in general.

    Standing armies have been the nursery of vice and the bane of liberty from the Roman legions to the establishment of the artful Ximenes, and from the ruin of the Cortes of Spain, to the planting of the British cohorts in the capitals of America.

    Observations On the new Constitution, and on the Federal and State Conventions. By a Columbian Patriot. Sic transit gloria Americana. [Boston: 1788.]

    https://oll.libertyfund.org/title/ramsay-pamphlets-on-the-constitution-of-the-united-states-1787-1788?utm_source=Liberty+Fund+Updates&utm_campaign=59b00f298b-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_02_20_03_48_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_2a91ac74a4-59b00f298b-102512687#preview

    Now, having posted that, I agree with the approach advocated in comment #49. A good swift kick in the arse generally works wonders on assholes. Now, all we need to do is figure a way of holding rich, bored shit headed punks accountable along with their daddies infesting positions of power.

    • Replies: @Temporary Insanity
  63. Marckus says:

    Criminals do what they do because they know they will get away with it or if caught get a handshake. It is interesting that the safest places to live in say New York is in the same neighbourhood as a gangster preferably Italian or Sicilian.

    I imagine in places like Mexico, residing in El Chapo’s village would be an idyllic existence.

    There are no signs warning potential miscreants they may be on camera. Perps know to avoid the area. Defence lawyers, plea bargains, rehab, counselling and all that are not available for naughty fellows caught there.

    At best a severe beating, at worse permanent disposal somewhere in the City. This is what criminals understand and as such they consider everything else as bullshit and the justice system as something to be gamed.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
    , @Gene Su
  64. @Dr. Robert Morgan

    It’s basic Darwinism (so of course Fred Reed can’t accept it) that man exists in a state of war; war with the natural world, war with other people as individuals, and war with society itself. Sometimes a modus vivendi is reached, but other times it isn’t. As Charles Manson said in one of his interviews: “I can do anything I want to you, because of what [society has] done to me.” That’s fair enough, isn’t it?

    The universe operates by balancing dynamic forces. Sometimes, when there is a great enough imbalance, the results are ultra-violent, but this does not mean the universe is at war with itself.

    Charles Manson could not (or would not) balance his impulses so he lived out his days in a cage. That was fair, too, although a short rope in a tall tree would have been just as fair.

  65. Marckus says:
    @Temporary Insanity

    You have a point there. Any reduction in crime and a lot of these folks would be looking for work in the solar industry !

    • Replies: @Temporary Insanity
  66. @Majority of One

    allow each serving juror to cast TWO ballots in the next election in their particular state.

    I like most of your ideas in this comment. The above, though … getting two votes instead of one in a system in which Lefty has gleefully demonstrated his willingness and ability to manufacture as many “ballots” as needed to fortify any desired election doesn’t seem like much of a prize.

    I’ve yet to get a chance to serve on a jury, but I’m ready at all times. During selection, I’ll solemnly pretend never to have heard the term “jury nullification” and to have no idea what it might mean. I’d solemnly agree to be directed entirely by “the law,” as explained by hizzoner. And then, if I were lucky enough to get the right case — somebody being persecuted for one of the many non-crimes that enrage our masters so — I’d hang the hell out of that jury. “No, Mr. Jury Foreman, I’m sorry, but I don’t think the persecutor made a case beyond reasonable doubt.” Good times!

    • Agree: Bro43rd
  67. @Achmed E. Newman

    I’ve been in three jury pools. The first one had a trial lawyer in the pool. She said lawyers on both sides want teachers and librarians if possible. Second they don’t go for people who either have had personal or family experience with the legal system. They prefer women. Finally they thru their questionnaires they try to weed out opinionated people.

    The last jury pool I went to was two years ago. The bailiffs running are pool were thrilled that pleas were reached with 3 out of 4. Apparently besides the lack of interest in serving on juries, and good many of been arrested on felony charges of some nature.

    • Thanks: Achmed E. Newman
  68. @Achmed E. Newman

    If you don’t want to serve on a jury, never answer a summons sent by regular first class mail. They can never prove you received it. In most state jurisdictions they won’t bother with certified mail or a hand delivered summons.

    • Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
  69. @Majority of One

    What if every defendant demanded a trial by jury?

    • Replies: @Rob McX
  70. @ruralguy

    In civil cases, they are usually resolved in legal memorandums between opposing attorneys and in shared discovery and pleadings. When the attorneys do their job right, it’s done without drama.

    That qualifier, “When the attorneys do their job right…” is needed. Sometimes they do trade insults and get after each other.

    I work with an attorney who has an insulting reply from a defense attorney to a suit in a civil matter framed and mounted in his office. In the same frame is a copy of the substantial check for damages the jury awarded.

  71. “A white jury is not unlikely to acquit a white charged with beating a black (Rodney King) “.

    Common Fred, clean this sentence up. Chris Rock has some advice for Rodney King. Yes yes I know Mr King is no longer in the land of the living. Mr King was a very big and strong fella. I’m sure he was at least 6″3′ and weighted in the vicinity of at least 220lbs. He threw those cops around like they were rag dolls. Fred have you ever been in ant street fights?
    BTW Saint George Floyd was about 6″6′ and went at least 240lbs.

    Looks like youtube blocks this so you’ll have to search “Chris Rock advice to not getting beat up by the police”.

    • LOL: thotmonger
  72. @Dr. Robert Morgan

    Imagining that there is such a thing as objective justice is an illusion, an attempt to impose a human sense of fairness on an unfair world, where talents and advantages are unequally distributed.

    Justice means people receive what they are due. It has nothing to do with equal distribution.

  73. Trinity says:

    “The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.” — Fyodor Dostoevsky

    The “collage edjumucated” idiots of today often attribute this quote or something similar to Nelson Mandela due to being indoctrinated by Jewish “perfessers” in their “negrophilia” classes.

    I guess one could say that the degree of civilization in a society can also be judged by its educational/indoctrination system.

  74. Spanky says:
    @Priss Factor

    My daughter just finished a feature article for a magazine wherein she used “caregivers” rather that “parents” as a description of people who love and care for their children.

    After reading it, I mentioned that particular word choice as something less than desirable, in my opinion. Her response was that the magazine’s editors and publisher insisted on caregivers as more appropriate because it was more “inclusive” regarding all the people expected to provide services to a child (baby-sitters, daycare employees, teachers, social-workers, psychologists, etc.).

    Apparently a child’s relationship to “the village” is now considered more important than that with their biological caregivers.

  75. @HT

    Why not step back a bit and ask the more pertinent question – why are drugs illegal?

    Without the ridiculous drug laws, there would be no drug cartels, no thousands of people in prison for harming no one but themselves, no violent people in the illicit drug trade, etc. The law created the problem in the first place.

    The laws concerning drugs should be the same as the laws concerning cabbage – none at all. The drug laws are there to provide employment for gov’t thugs and for at least 50 years, they’ve not managed to solve the drug problem because they don’t want to solve it by repealing the laws, but to have it always on a slow boil to keep the money flowing.

    Alcohol prohibition should have provide the lesson that making vices criminal is stupid policy.

    • Disagree: HT
    • Replies: @HT
    , @Ugetit
  76. Spanky says:
    @Astuteobservor II

    What part of the statement “the best government money can buy” is unclear?

  77. Spanky says:
    @Majority of One

    All a prospective juror need do is mention jury nullification to be excluded for “cause”.

  78. @follyofwar

    “When I was in Army Basic Training in 1971 I met guys who were given the option of enlisting in the Army or going to jail”

    I was in basic training (Ft Leonard Wood) in 1974 and I heard a few of those same stories. I remember the housing where the women recruits stayed were guarded 24 hours a day. Ft Hood had a very large prison compound surrounded by barbed wire fence.

  79. Trinity says:

    Prisons SHOULD BE SEGREGATED. A White inmate doing time in state prisons in states like Louisiana, Florida, Georgia, Texas, and other states is going to suffer things that some guy in Utah or Maine will not have to even be concerned with. “Heart checks” are the order of the day in many of these state prisons and often that involves a White inmate having to line up and fight multiple Blacks one after another or being jumped by 2 or more inmates in his first few days in lockup.

    Prisons often turn petty criminals into mass murderers. Carl Isaacs and Charles Manson are two fine examples. Isaacs was a petty thief who as an 18 year old was sent to a Maryland maximum security prison where he was raped for hours by Black inmates during a prison riot. Isaacs was hardly a model citizen but I am sure being raped for hours didn’t rehabilitate this petty criminal. Isaacs, after being raped, was then transferred to a minimum security prison where he would meet up with his half brother, Wayne Coleman and Coleman’s homosexual Black lover George Dungee. The 3 convicts would escape, pick up 15 year old Billy Isaacs in Baltimore, kill a Pennsylvania man and steal his vehicle and head to Florida. They decided to go back north and stopped in the small town of Donalsonville, Georgia where they committed one of the most savage mass murders in the history of Georgia. They slaughtered 6 members of the Alday family and brutally raped and sodomized Mary Alday before killing her.

    Prisons in America can very well turn a petty criminal into a psychopathic mass murder/rapist. Manson himself was nothing more than a petty thief, guilty of charges like forging checks, pimping, etc. Judges and inept public defenders throwing petty criminals inside maximum security prisons while the rich do no time or receive cushy gigs in minimum security prisons where they are able to leave for 12 hours a day like Jeffrey Epstein is not justice at all. Placing an 18 year old kid in a maximum security prison with rapists, murderers, and lifers with nothing to lose for some petty crime is not justice either. Someone convicted of a drug crime or any other nonviolent crime does not deserve to be gang raped for hours by a gang of vicious racist psychopaths.

    • Agree: Majority of One
  80. gotmituns says:
    @Spanky

    what’s gonna happen when the “criminal justice system” is fully weaponized against ideological non-conformists?
    ————————————————-

    Young non-conformists will then have no other choice than to go “OFF GRID.”

  81. Wild Bill says:
    @Uncle Al

    We have been conditioned from birth and for at least the last four hundred years to accept the premise that the “rule of law” is sacred and we should aspire to preserve it at all costs. This is not the common law that has always existed since the birth of time. The common law of do no harm and make compensation if you do or expect reprisal. The “rule of law” is nothing more than admiralty law, born from the need for agreement between corporate parties with no common culture or society. The people have simply had this corporate law foisted on them as a means to control them and subjugate them. Accepting the “rule of law” which has been created for the sole purpose of empowering tyrants and petty tyrants is to accept slavery. As a living human (not a “person”) you are not bound by those laws. “Person” is a legalese term that defines a form of corporate entity as the titles Mr. and Mrs. are. Your title indicates your ownership in the same way the title to your house or car indicates ownership. The terms of common English are used in legalese with completely different meanings to purposely confuse ordinary people. The most common example is the the one of “Do you understand?”. A phrase that ends the process of a “law enforcement officer” presenting you with an order. Most people think it means “do you comprehend?” when in fact it means “do you stand under my authority over you?” A system of lies, deceit, outright fraud and slavery is what we have been embroiled in and as long as we accept it without resistance, we are slaves.

    • Agree: Majority of One
    • Replies: @Ray Huffman
  82. Several years ago, I was forced by circumstance to drive through a “red-light” part of my city in the dark of the morning. When I stopped for a literal red light, A young woman looking like a stereotypical prostitute emerged from the flock on the corner and approached. my response: “Good morning, detective. How are things on the john-sting detail?” that sent her packing and dispersed the flock.

    • LOL: Rob McX
  83. 3g4me says:
    @Charles

    @24 Charles: I’ll have to try that if I get called on again (although I hope to avoid that by having my name removed from the voting rolls). First time I was in a potential jury pool almost no one White got called. Second time I just kept quiet, kept my head down hoping not to be noticed, and ended up getting picked as one of the alternate jurors. Wasted weeks of my life. I have no respect for this pretend country or it’s misnamed ‘justice system’ and I would happily throttle all lawyers.

  84. 3g4me says:
    @Majority of One

    @45 Majority of One: “Back in the day,” Minnesota’s prison population was undoubtedly much more heavily European and thus the gene pool of the potential prisoners lent itself to the possibility of improvement. Regardless of “tough love” or “outdoor challenge” solutions, it’s much more a case of “garbage in-garbage out.” You can send all the Somalis you’d like to chop wood, and they’ll still end up trying to use their axe on you instead. Genetics>environment. Always. Everywhere. Never forget.

    • Replies: @Majority of One
  85. Bro43rd says:

    Decent article but completely ignores the fact that “law” has been perverted to profit the justice system. The jails/prisons are mostly full of “criminals” w/out victims. And the system is self-perpetuating. First order would be re-establishing law to, “no victim no crime”. Some would call this natural law.

    That being said, a just system would use restitution for non-violent offenders. Repeat non-violent offenders could be subject to incarceration with programs for rehabilitation incorporated with restitution. Violent offenders should be incarcerated in work camp prisons also geared toward making restitution to the victims. Restitution for some crimes like murder should essentially take a lifetime to pay. Full restitution should be accomplished before parole is considered.

    On the matter of corrupt judiciary, just as the jury consists of citizens, the judges could also consist of citizen panels. Lawyers for criminal trials would all come from the same pool, both prosecutors & defenders. Chosen by the
    respective clients & paid for by the public much like how public defenders are compensated now. So that those lawyers who acted in the best interest of their clients, whether defender or prosecutor, would see the most action & be compensated accordingly. And the cream of the crop would get scooped up by private law firms leaving room for recent grads to make their way.

    As to policing issues, with victimless crimes removed from the statutes, policing would primarily consist of investigation & detective work. Less militant type policing, more community based policing with watch patrols & locally based beat officers.

    • Replies: @Majority of One
  86. Anonymous[365] • Disclaimer says:

    Three years for solicitation? Not likely in the real world. I tuned out when that was mentioned.

    “You have the right to remain silent… blah… blah… ”
    “Do you understand these rights as I have read them to you?”

    “No.”

    Then what?

  87. “The only way to avoid convicting the innocent is not to convict anyone.”

    Thus: capital punishment is murder because inevitably the innocent will be convicted and executed.

    Don’t take it from me. Take it from the horse’s mouth above.

  88. But then he presents a false dichotomy. He pretends that the only alternative to capital punishment is “letting the guilty go free.” What a bunch of straw man nonsense manipulative hooey. False dichotomies are used by propagandists to pull the wool over the eyes of the less than vigilant.

    No. The alternative to capital punishment is life imprisonment, not at all “letting the guilty go free.” With life imprisonment, the convicted innocents, who, by his own admission must exist, must languish in prison right now, by the very nature of the imperfect justice system, the convicted innocents, when eventually proven innocent, as some will inevitably be, have a chance to go free. Dead but innocent men have no chance to go free. And thus have been murdered by the state.

    This simple idea is too complex for your boltbrains, I know. I can’t wait for you to divert the topic into some fallacious propaganda-talking-point nonsense.

  89. He says, “brutality by police results from disobeying a cop’s orders.”

    That’s what Daniel Shaver thought.

  90. HT says:
    @RoatanBill

    Legalizing drugs won’t fix the problems they create. Drug addicts will still be mini-crime waves stealing your property to feed their addiction. Also, most decent people do not want to live in a world of drug addicts. Start putting users in prison again for 3 or 4 years and we would get rid of 90% of the theft crimes.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  91. Rob McX says:
    @Jim Bob Lassiter

    Millions of people would go to prison for a very long time – when the overloaded system would finally get around to prosecuting them. But the time and money required to bring every case to trial would cause the court system to collapse into chaos, and the prisons wouldn’t have space to incarcerate all of them when they’re finally sentenced.

  92. JimB says:

    The only way to convict all of the guilty is to convict everybody.

    High Type 1 error.

    The only way to avoid convicting the innocent is not to convict anyone.

    High Type 2 error.

    I learned that over at iSteve.

  93. Yes, the system is inherently bad. It is full of prejudice, not just against blacks; mainly against poverty. I’ve thought of alternate systems, and what comes to mind is very fundamental. We, society, are very capable of total self governance. But to be so we need a moral foundation. And, that is what has been taken form us. How? Through our dumbed down education system, socialism, corrupt politicians, Hollywood, and MSM. I’m sure there are other reasons, so fill in the blanks. I’ll relate a short story. Living in LA in 1985 the wife and I decided to go south, my daughters were 5 and 7. We vacationed in Puerto Vallarta, Mx. for 10 days. My wife and I became friendly with an American expat who owned a pub there, and my girls became friendly with his daughters, who were of similar age. One afternoon the kids came running up to our table asking if they could go out of our sight, and into town with his girls. When I expressed my concerns, my new friend, the owner said, don’t worry, there are no problems here. When they (CHILD ABUSE) arise we take care of it. I understood what he meant. They kill predators. Ever since then my definition of anarchy changed. We don’t need a central government. It is an evil construct, one created by the financial system. Anarchy simply means government by the locals. Is it a tribal thing? Yes! is it a bad thing? No!

    • Replies: @stevennonemaker88
  94. JimB says:
    @Bill Jones

    There is something in what you say here but the raw material fed into the Finnish system is probably an order of magnitude better to those going into the US/UK systems.

    Transportation of 19th century British criminals established one of the last kick-ass countries left on the globe!

    • Replies: @restless94110
    , @Lee
  95. @HT

    Atta Boy! And look at how all the drug dealers are out of business now. What a pathetic statement and way of thinking! Imposing violence on another human for what? “Buying drugs”? Why? To protect the “user” from his own choice(s)? How many lives have been destroyed by this way of thinking?

    • Replies: @HT
  96. Getaclue says:
    @thotmonger

    That’s some kind of endorsement? I was a lawyer for decades — in the 1980s, and before, the system still functioned a good bit as people think it should…since then it has become unbelievably expensive.

    Normal people cannot afford it. Basically it is massive $$$ insurance companies defending and PI Attorneys (most of which have never tried a case but who advertise ad nauseum) — if you have a non-PI case under $100,000 the fees and costs just make it generally impractical to pursue it these days — people still do though and end up regretting it — even “winning” they lose at the end.

    Criminal cases are a joke — people cannot afford attorneys and end up with the Public Defender — Judges expect pleas, the Supreme
    Court in every State grades them on how fast they move cases and NOTHING else matters — if you do not take the plea they slam you at sentencing if you lose for slowing down the Docket, and you can be “innocent” and lose — that is how it works and I was both a Prosecutor and Public Defender as well as Civil Trial Lawyer.

    People not in the “system” are generally totally and completely clueless about it. The quality of Judges has also tanked. It used to be a very good lawyer with decades of practice and highly respected — AND FAIR — would be generally selected for the Bench. No more. Leftist politics. lunatics like Amy Berman et al, and people looking for “careers” sitting on the Bench — a very easy life when you are lazy — is what we have now. Anyone not fearing going into a Courtroom now who is a “normal” person is ill informed or very foolish. The comments here show that people, even generally brighter people, are generally clueless which is interesting.

    • Agree: thotmonger
  97. @Jim Bob Lassiter

    I never ended up going when I didn’t want to, Jim. If the jurisdiction did send certified or registered letters, I don’t partake, myself. I learned my lesson on that long ago. If you know me, call me or knock on the door. Otherwise, those letters hardly ever mean anything good.

  98. @Bro43rd

    Some good ideas there. Our ruptured republic needs all the good ideas we can get…AND some way of implementing them.

  99. Getaclue says:
    @ruralguy

    Cases settling without a Trial is not a “good” thing. The reason this is happening is Judges are forcing settlements because the ONLY thing that matters as to their performance on the Bench is basically how fast they move their Docket — all Supreme Courts monitor this and every Judge I know took it extremely seriously — in a Criminal Case if you do not take the plea you will generally be hammered at sentencing, especially Public Defender cases and ALL Public Defenders are required to tell this to their Clients because not doing so in MALPRACTICE — you aren’t coercing them — you are informing them of reality — Guilt or Innocence is meaningless.

    I would say the vast majority of Civil Trial Lawyers almost NEVER take a case to trial — their clients are clueless about this — most don’t have the skills to do so and never actually learned how to do it by doing it — in the old days you were mentored by a seasoned Trial Lawyer for years when you entered “the Profession”– these days with massive turn out from a Law School on every corner (a huge financial con by the way) clueless new attorneys set up their own practices and ADVERTISE. I could go on and on but I would be very surprised if anybody who actually was in the system say from 1980 forward wouldn’t say that it is terrible compared to what it used to be — as to the quality of Judges, Costs, everything — the one very good Judge I know can’t wait to retire and get out — the bad ones seem to love the power. Anyone going to Law School who is not from a wealthy family of lawyers or possessing some similar “in” needs to have their skull examined.

    • Thanks: Majority of One
  100. @Timur The Lame

    Could I trouble you to provide a link to that database, please?

    • Replies: @Timur The Lame
  101. @Demguy

    Thanks for your real life story! The “justice” system in the US is totally corrupted

  102. @Intelligent Dasein

    Fred is right that on 9-11 buildings fell in free fall straight down in after an hour, an impossibility under the laws of physics?

    Fred is right that the only reason American citizens are against immigration is because they are “scared” of brown people?

    Fred is right that the entire body of animal husbandry, evolutionary psychology, anthropology is bullshit because the theory of evolution is false?

    Uh, no.

  103. @3g4me

    Granted, there are cultural differences developing in the Twin Cities and other major urban agglomerations. Somalis? Not so sure about that one. They don’t seem to have the same attitudes those born of the baby-mama ghetto experience as do all too many young black guys.

    Again, taken in early enough, say those 10-12 y.o carjackers in Minneapolis lately, and brought to a deep in the boonies camp primarily run by black former Marine Corps drill instructors, with a few social-worker types around to act as embracing “mama” when the kids stayed within their bounds; some axiomatically positive changes might be greater than the exception.

    Penological policies are waaaay too unimaginative as they are developed by some combination of sitzfleisch academics with their heads in a cloud of statistics and studies, along with “criminal justice” warriors with their one size fits all philosophies. Citizen panels, embracing as many learned elders as possible (most of them autodidacts rather than degreed academics) and also including a few individuals who had been used by the criminal “justice” system and are filled with plangent insights, would be a better way to go.

    I have a real problem with a syndrome which I’ve titled “Credentialiasis”. It is not yet on any PDR or similar mental-health programming model. Of course not. This society is run by a group whom I call the “Titled Aristocraps”. If they sport a bunch of letters behind their surnmes, that’s sposta make them special and “qualified”. But where is common sense in this equation? It’s all about how much educational programming you have managed to endure.

    More learned, by far, is the generalist, who may or may not even boast a B.A.—or B.S., for that matter and who has become self-taught on civic matters, with a broad base in history, geography, political matters, sociology, anthropology and depth psychology (not that so called “clinical” crap). Too many pseudo-sciences out there—beginning with the perfect oxymoron: “political science”. Such pseudo-sciences form the basis for the #2 leading oxymoron, Criminal”Justice”.

    If you do not yet realize that our criminal “justice” system is all fucked-up and in many ways the worst in the world, consider this fact: With less than 5% of the planet’s population, the U$ sports a full 25 percent of the world’s incarcerated individuals. Nobody else comes even close. With a combined 14 times the U$ population cumulatively, India and China have fewer jailed and imprisoned citizens than “the land of the free and home of the brave”. 14 to 1 ratio.

    Does America have really that much more criminally inclined a population or is something else at play in this scenario? With one twenty-fifth of the world’s population, we have fully 25% of its prisoners. Fucked-up big-time.

    • Replies: @3g4me
  104. @the grand wazoo

    Certainly the current situation with the huge and out of control Federal Government is awful. Big government is the source of much of the evil we see. However, I think you should be careful about jumping to another extreme. “Anarchy” as you call it has never really worked on any significant scale in practice. Nature abhors a vacuum, and this is extremely true of human society. Enough government and force is necessary to stop evil people from setting up their own collectives (gangs, another government, etc) and oppressing others. Hence the founding fathers came up with limited government, which is the best real world solution.

    I have lived in Guatemala since 2012. I have a family and all my kids where born here. There are many parallels to Mexico, as the basic latin american culture and mestizo race is similar. Mexico has many very restrictive laws and almost complete gun control, and a massive murder and crime rate. It is true that many of the small towns here are close knit and people do sometimes lynch predators; However their is also a huge amount of corruption here and many murderers and extortionists get away with it.

  105. @Oikeamielinen

    Be cautious about believing “puff pieces” about Finnish prisons or schools. Such puff pieces by the press have become popular in the post-glasnost.

    I’ve never read a puff piece on Finnish criminal justice in my life. I have however read articles detailing the way they do prisons there and also attended seminars in university given by representatives from Finland comparing their methods with those of the USA.

    The trouble with your example is one person who games the system proves nothing.

    The fact remains that Finland provides humane treatment during incarceration which goes a long way towards preserving the prisoners desire to re-integrate and then provides routes to re-integration, which should be the goal of every society in every country if that society or country wants to reduce recidivism and therefore reduce crime.

    The US does not. Not only is the convict brutalized during incarceration, but then he is just thrown out the door with 100 bucks.

    Like many things in America, that is not only insane, it is shortsighted. If the goal was to reduce crime,, you would not do it that way. If the goal was to lower the cost to society of prisons, you would not do it that way.

    Fred’s cynicism is over the way a broken, ineffective system works now. If a prison system turns out career criminals? It would behoove an advanced society to ensure the opposite result. Like in Finland.

    • Replies: @Oikeamielinen
  106. @HT

    I’ve previously suggested giving drugs away in vending machines for dirt cheap in the hopes that the dopers off themselves. If drugs were not illegal, they could be cheap as dirt and manufactured in labs. There would be no need to become a thief and with any luck lots of them would drop dead.

    You already live in a world of drug addicts. Plus a world of violence and street crime because it’s illegal. You don’t see alcoholics beating people or robbing houses to feed their addiction, do you?

    Drugs are illegal to create the anti drug units and suck money out of your pocket for a never ending battle the gov’t has no intention of winning, just like all the simmering wars they start to enrich the oligarchy.

    • Replies: @HT
    , @anarchyst
    , @dfordoom
  107. I think almost everyone can agree that the “justice” system in the US is extremely corrupt and broken, So I won’t further elaborate on all of the endless examples of what is wrong with the system. That being said I think it is worth pointing out a few things.

    1. A healthy society with common culture where people believe in accountability and objective morality and have strong families goes a long way to eliminating crime, irrespective of any official justice system.

    2. Some people are predators/psychopaths and should be killed; prison is both unjust and expensive.

    3. Making Restitution is the best sort of “punishment” as it actually goes towards helping the victim; for many crimes this is possible.

    4. For crimes of moderate severity that don’t warrant death but do warrant more than a fine, work camps where people can at least be productive (while also treated like humans) would be FAR better than prison. Of course such a system is vulnerable to corruption so it would need to be carefully implemented.

  108. Ugetit says:
    @RoatanBill

    Without the ridiculous drug laws, there would be no drug cartels, no thousands of people in prison for harming no one but themselves, no violent people in the illicit drug trade, etc. The law created the problem in the first place.

    While I agree that drug laws are ridiculous and worse, since inter alia they increase profits, and that thousands would not be in prison for harming no one but themselves, I suspect that even if all drugs were legalized, that there would be not only cartels, but monopolies just as we have today with “legal” meds. Furthermore, where there are profits to be had, legal or not, there will be violent people engaging in everything from turf battles to world wars. Your claim that there would be no violent people in the illicit drug trade is, of course, an obvious tautology.

    Whether laws against a behavior exist or not, what would prevent scenarios similar to this.?:

    A “command performance” – Chinese middle and upper class forced at gunpoint to smoke the Sassoon’s opium. The guns being conveniently provided by the British military.

    For more in this particular subject,

    https://www.islam-radio.net/islam/english/jewishp/china/jew-opium-monopoly.htm

    FAIR WARNING: Prepare to be disgusted.

    • Thanks: Mike Tre
  109. A.K.Patal says:
    @Happy Tapir

    He killed two people, posted $2 million bond, and out on bail? He must have strong connections! Did Trump help in any way? I wonder.

    • Replies: @Mike Tre
  110. HT says:
    @RoatanBill

    Having drugs more easily available and decriminalizing them has resulted in an explosion in drug usage and that means more problems for law abiding people. If you want fewer drug addicts in society be more like Singapore and similar countries where drug possession is severely punished. Publicly hang drug dealers and give 5 year minimum sentences for simple possession. Drug addiction is easily preventable and I have zero sympathy for scum that use illegal drugs.

    • Replies: @Jett Rucker
    , @RoatanBill
  111. @Ugetit

    Show me the violent people in the liquor business. The only violence that ever occurred was during prohibition; when it was illegal. Once it was legal again, the violence dissipated.

    The pharma corporations don’t have goons shooting up their competition, do they?

    Your reply is largely bullshit and to attempt to pass it off as reasonable is insulting to my intelligence and to the intelligence of many of the readers on this site.

    • Replies: @HT
    , @Ugetit
  112. @Majority of One

    the most totally corrupted “justice” system in the developed world needs to have a steady flow of clientele to keep those shekels rolling in

    Completely correct.

    And the coins are ALWAYS “shekels”. That is a whole separate – and fully-integrated – part of the problem.

  113. 3g4me says:
    @Majority of One

    @103 Majority of One: You are naive at best. You could take Somalis from their parents at birth, raise them with middle-class Whites, and this would still not counter their genetic tendencies. IQ, criminality, impulse control, violence . . . all these (and much, much more) is highly predicated on genetics. Oh, wait, this has been done via numerous adoption studies, Head Start, etc. Result? DNA MATTERS. No, not genetic determinism, but discount it at your peril. The percent of criminally inclined in America is, once again, based on genetics. Take all of the world’s races, place them in a country initially established and built by highly individualistic, capable White Europeans, give them numerous freebies and constantly advertise just how much more the Whites have because rayciss, and you have the perfect ingredients for anarcho-tyranny.

    I don’t particularly care what China or India do other than that they continually send their ill-begotten denizens to all corners of the globe. And if you believe their crime stats, you’re worse than naive – you’re a gold-plated fool.

    • Agree: anarchyst
  114. @JimB

    Transportation of 19th century British criminals established one of the last kick-ass countries left on the globe!

    I am having trouble deciphering your comment. Could you elaborate?

  115. Lee says:
    @JimB

    Jim said:

    Transportation of 19th century British criminals established one of the last kick-ass countries left on the globe!

    I certainly wouldn’t describe Oz as a “kick ass country”.

    Loony,lefty laws that only an AOC could appreciate, the almost complete destruction of its native peoples and their culture,and draconian gun ownership rules that make it illegal for its citizens to protect themselves in their own homes should suggest to most the level of disdain the OZ government has for its own citizenry.

  116. Jett Rucker says: • Website
    @HT

    Disagree (too late to Disagree).

  117. Incitatus says:

    Years ago I served in a San Francisco jury pool (as I recall, one spent two weeks spent sitting, occasionally called for a trial).

    The first trial defendant – charged with kidnapping and mutilation (absconded with a woman, put one of her eyes out) – strolled cheerfully into the courtroom after being out on bail, indistinguishable from potential jurors.

    The second trial defendant was brought into court in jail garb and shackles, by appearance already guilty and a prime penitent. He was caught in the act of run-of-the-mill car theft. No bodily harm or kidnapping, just an unsuccessful attempt to steal a bloody car (poor sod couldn’t even manage that).

    Justice? Or business? How much revenue does the bail-bond industry bring in every year?

  118. HT says:
    @RoatanBill

    Alcohol is used responsibly by the vast majority of the people who partake. Drugs are never used responsibly. The illegal/legal issue is irrelevant because they are not the same products and I never understood people who try to claim they are. People will steal from their own kin to meet their drug addiction.

    • Agree: Ugetit, Lee
  119. @HT

    Look at Amsterdam. They and other places have decriminalized drugs and their problems lessened to a large degree. Locking people up for a vice is plain stupid. Alcohol prohibition didn’t work and the drug prohibition hasn’t worked for 50 years. When are you going to allow reality to replace your no thinking propaganda induced ideology? Why is it any of your business if some pinhead gets stoned in his house and hurts no one but himself or his family?

    Drugs and alcohol, even if not illegal, are always going to cause issues such as traffic accident when some fool gets behind the wheel while stoned. The solution is to put that dirtbag in prison for actually causing harm to someone else or their property.

    My preferred solution is to execute anyone that causes a death while stoned and to lock them up in a work camp at minimum wage till they pay off all claims that don’t involve a death. Just think of all the doctors and Wall St types that would think twice before they trade their lucrative gigs for 20 or 30 years of hard labor to pay back for one stupid move.

    • Agree: nokangaroos
    • Replies: @Adam Smith
  120. @HT

    Drugs are never used responsibly.

    I’m sorry, but your full of shit and you know it. Posturing on this issue as you have means you’re not to be taken seriously.

    People will steal to pay for drugs because they are so expensive. They are so expensive because the product is illegal. If the product was not illegal, it could be purchased over the counter in a pharmacy with a guaranteed purity and the illicit drug trade would wither and die along with the violence and the salaries of the completely useless DEA and other drug warrior types.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  121. @Ugetit

    “Now, all we need to do is figure a way of holding rich, bored shit headed punks accountable along with their daddies infesting positions of power.”

    Sooner the better!

    • Thanks: Ugetit
  122. @Marckus

    And the bums would fail even at that…

  123. @HT

    You have no idea what you’re squawking about.
    Go smoke a joint and chill out…

  124. Ugetit says:
    @RoatanBill

    Your reply is largely bullshit and to attempt to pass it off as reasonable is insulting to my intelligence and to the intelligence of many of the readers on this site.

    While I take no pleasure in hurling personal insults and I intend to avoid doing so, your resort to such tells me and other discerning readers a lot. If you would elaborate on your claim, I’d be appreciative.

    Anyway,

    Show me the violent people in the liquor business. The only violence that ever occurred was during prohibition

    You’ll need to prove that statement to keep me, and no doubt many others, from laughing since I can think of many instances that belie the statement, and they all occurred prior to Prohibition.

    The pharma corporations don’t have goons shooting up their competition, do they?

    How would you or any of us here know? However, what makes you believe they have not or would not? Shooting up the competition is only one way of inflicting violence on them. Arson, strikes, unfair lawsuits, and defamation are among the tools that are well within the realm of possibility as well.

    However, even if the pharm industry is squeaky clean in every way, that does not nullify the general concept.

    • Agree: stevennonemaker88
    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  125. Ugetit says:
    @HT

    Also he wrote that,

    Once it was legal again, the violence dissipated.

    While that appears to be true, I would argue that it’s more likely that the violence dissipated because once the violent ones were able to establish dominance, violence was no longer necessary and it was in their interest to have it made legal again.

    I bet if RB or any of us tried to enter the business in any significant way that we’d soon get a taste of real violence and that once we were out of the way, violence would be a thing of history once again.

  126. R.C. says:

    Running throughout the above otherwise openminded article is the idea that malum prohibitum crimes are equally as bad as malum per se crimes – anyone who’s looked at the facts MUST realize that, for example, the drug war created the entire boom in crimes after ~ 1986 – all to give the entire state room to grow, as all entities/groups of humans will do.
    Legalize drugs and 90% of the real, innate crimes (malum in se) will obviously vanish.
    That it’s not discussed, nor Prohibition tends to indicate that the author has blinders on. The fact that so many other commenters discuss it proves this fact.
    R.C.

  127. anarchyst says:
    @RoatanBill

    Actually it is the present-day system of “illegal” drugs that is the problem. Liverpool, England had one of the highest rates of heroin use in the country. It “medicalized” heroin for those addicts who had jobs (most of them), had no desire to stop using heroin, and had stable living arrangements. The previous problems with drug users and drug-induced deaths almost totally disappeared.
    Illegal drugs have the singular problem of variations in potency. Street drug potency can vary from very mild to very “hot”–not a good thing.
    If “illegal” drugs were made available in pharmacies with dosages controlled by proper manufacturing and quality control, deaths would drop to zero.
    It is the unknown potency that makes some “illegal” drugs dangerous…

  128. anarchyst says:
    @HT

    Alcohol is a drug and is responsible for more misery for the users and their families than any illegal drug…

  129. Rob McX: “At least a fairly stable consensus on what justice is can be achieved in a homogeneous society. ”

    It’s not surprising that similar people in similar circumstances would have similar opinions, but even then, not always. For instance, in the founding of the American state, the revolutionaries had quite a different idea of justice than did the king.

  130. @stevennonemaker88

    “That being said I think it is worth pointing out a few things.”

    All good ideas, thanks.

    • Thanks: stevennonemaker88
  131. Worshiping the negrovah. When the most savage race is sanctified as the most spiritual. ROTFL.

    https://www.rt.com/uk/516168-charities-implicit-bias-training/

  132. another fred: “Charles Manson could not (or would not) balance his impulses so he lived out his days in a cage. That was fair, too, although a short rope in a tall tree would have been just as fair. ”

    Of course, he might want to apply that same treatment to you. It seems to me lex talionis is not an argument for the objective existence of justice; rather the contrary.

  133. @RoatanBill

    Oddly enough people who smoke a little cannabis and get behind the wheel are some of the safest drivers on the road. They don’t speed, they’re not in a hurry, they don’t follow too close, they don’t road rage and they don’t take risks. It’s nothing like driving on alcohol where after just a few drinks people lose judgment and coordination. (Judgment and coordination are pretty handy behind the wheel.) Pharmaceutical drugs are far more dangerous and produce many more traffic fatalities. Think of adderall rage or my neighbor who rolled his bucket truck after taking his prescription klonopin. (Thankfully he didn’t hurt anyone. He did tear up someones yard though. Thankfully he didn’t hit their house.)

    Some studies have shown that cannabis users are the safest drivers on the road, safer than sober drivers who never partake. States that allow the legal use of medicinal cannabis are noticing fewer traffic fatalities. For example, in Colorado and Montana, there has been a 9% drop in traffic fatalities and a 5% drop in beer sales. These states concluded that marijuana use has helped save lives.

    Years ago I read a study from the Netherlands (sorry I can’t find it at the moment, I read this more than 20 years ago, possibly more than 25). They gave the participants a road test sober and then high on cannabis. This study concluded that regular cannabis users were safer than their sober counterparts. The only people “noticeably impaired” by cannabis use were teenagers and first time users. The first time users and teenagers showed minimal impairment.

    Science Shows Cannabis Users Are Safe Drivers

    Reasons Why Marijuana Users Are Safe Drivers

    Cannabis and Driving: A Scientific and Rational Review

    Crash Fatality Rates After Recreational Marijuana Legalization in Washington and Colorado

    After states legalized medical marijuana, traffic deaths fell

    My preferred solution is to execute anyone that causes a death while stoned…

    Perhaps we should execute anyone that causes a death while driving.
    People would be more careful and there would be fewer crashes.
    Unfortunately, fewer car crashes would be bad for the economy.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  134. @Adam Smith

    I really don’t care if someone is high on something while driving. I do care if someone is high on something and causes injury or property damage. The drug involved is of no consequence, legal or illegal. It is the injury or property damage combined with the willful impairment that should be sanctioned.

    • Agree: Adam Smith
    • Replies: @Adam Smith
  135. @Marckus

    On the Ethnic Dimension of Crime

    Question: why are Italians able to run successful criminal organizations for so long but black inner-city offenders are caught for serious crimes as well as rural poor Anglo-Celtic ones for more minor offenses such as dealing meth or property crime?

    Why do so few Asian-Americans commit random petty vicious crime?

    Why do Jews commit such few random petty crimes?

    If Jews are the worst criminals on the planet why do so few of them commit run-of-the-mill street crimes? Why are so few Jews in jail for petty crime? They go to prison for medicaid scams or financial fraud but why do we so rarely hear of a Jew being arrested for common garden variety crime?

    And why are so many ridiculous meth-related crimes committed by rural or exurban Anglo-Celtic whites but not by Jews or Italians or other urban ethnic whites?

    Why are most “Methanys” white Anglo-Celtic women, as oppose to Jewish or Italian-American or Asian-American?

    Why has meth-related crime affected whites.

    Yes, except that the Sicilian gangster is the one importing the heroin through his pizza parlors or automobile dealership front businesses to put on the street in the first place.

    Similarly, the El Chapo is exporting the meth to the US that turns some harmless if callow & ineducable rural exurban lumpen into a tweaker who steals from his family & burglarizes houses & ends up eventually going to prison for 20 years for habitually offending.

    However, black crimes often seem to have a sexual component-a rape in a park, for example-that could have an evolutionary basis (Unlike Europe or Asia where pair-bonding evolved in Africa the man who impregnated the most women spread his genes the furthest).

    At any rate, let us look at the facts & ask questions here.

    Why are most “Methany’s” & male tweakers who commit meth-driven crimes white & Anglo-Celtic?

    Why are Sicilians & Italians such successful & cunning criminals who manage to stay out of prison for so long? Why do they seem to possess more cunning than Northern Europeans?

    Why do Jews commit such few street crimes?

    Does money have anything to do with this?

    Why are more and more lower class or working class blue-collar whites drifting into a criminal lifestyle of drugs or crime today than 40 years ago in the USA?

    • Replies: @Trinity
  136. Thim says:

    In 2013 a dimwit Iowa State Trooper wrote me some tickets that were bogus, knowing that as an out of state trucker, I would just pay them.

    Instead I hired an expensive local lawyer and appeared for trial. My lawyer told me that in Iowa I was entitled to a jury trial, and he would clear this right up.

    He requested a jury trial. There was silence in the whole courthouse. A quick meeting in the judges chambers and all tickets dismissed.

    Nothing they hate more than a jury trial. And that was one awesome lawyer.

  137. @Ugetit

    Apparently you have a reading comprehension issue. I hurled no insult at you. I stated your argument is bullshit.

    I’m not going to try to prove anything to you. I’m just going to ignore you.

  138. Good article, Fred.

    My youngest son had an interesting encounter with the judicial system in Chicago when he was in his mid to late twenties. He received a summons to report for jury duty. He complied and was one of the fortunate souls selected to be questioned for a seat on a jury hearing a drug possession case.

    When the judge asked him if he had any problems hearing the evidence and impartially rendering a verdict he told the judge he had problems. He told the judge he did not think he could help determine the fate of an individual based on capricious and unfair laws. He further told the judge he believed drug possession laws were an attack on personal sovereignty and that laws which limited what an individual could consume were an affront to individual liberty. The judge freaked out and told him he looked like an intelligent person so why was he giving the court such a hard time over a simple matter.

    My son would not budge. The exasperated judge dismissed him and told him to sit at the back of the courtroom. The rest of the prospective jurors were interviewed and once the jury was filled those not selected were dismissed with the thanks of the court. With the exception of my son. He was told to remain in the courtroom. And there he sat until the day’s proceedings were completed when he was released.

    When he told me what had happened I was quite proud of him.

  139. Intelligent Dasein: “Justice means people receive what they are due. It has nothing to do with equal distribution. ”

    Do some people receive what they are due when they are murdered? Opinions differ. If you are the one murdered, probably you will not think so, whereas in the mind of the murderer, he is justified.

    Further, it’s been established by experiment that even animals have a sense of fairness which is tied to equal distribution.

    https://phys.org/news/2017-02-animals-unfairly-dont.html

    This evolved sense of fairness persists in the human animal and mostly acts to stabilize society. But this doesn’t prove the objective existence of justice, only that thinking there is such a thing has evolutionary advantages.

  140. HT says:
    @Freedom Awaits

    Like I said, decent people don’t want to live in a society with rampant drug use. You support legal drug use and want to talk about lives being destroyed? Seriously? Lock them all up and throw away the key. Give drug sellers the death penalty. Get rid of drug use and watch the country improve. Why do some white people want to behave like Negroes? I don’t get it.

    • LOL: Spanky
    • Replies: @MrVoid
  141. dfordoom says: • Website
    @RoatanBill

    You already live in a world of drug addicts. Plus a world of violence and street crime because it’s illegal. You don’t see alcoholics beating people or robbing houses to feed their addiction, do you?

    Given my loathing for the drug culture and the harm it’s done I hate to say this but the libertarians might be right on this issue.

    I think prohibition of drugs could work but you’d need a functional society, a trustworthy government, honest cops and an honest criminal justice system. Since you might as well wish for the moon as wish for any of those things maybe legalisation of drugs is the only answer.

    It would be desirable to stamp out the drug culture but it’s one of those things that western societies are no longer capable of doing.

    And when you have cops that are basically corrupt thugs in uniform it’s not a good idea to give them any more power than is strictly necessary.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  142. @RoatanBill

    I agree wholeheartedly.
    I do care if someone causes injury or property damage.
    Don’t harm anyone.
    It’s so simple.

    • Thanks: RoatanBill
  143. You ought not keeping referring to ‘daughters’ in order to illustrate the point. Any woman is a living soul, someone’s daughter, sister, mother, friend,colleague etc, so is important without any parental familial connection. As for ‘justice’, it does not exist in capitalist oligarchies. A commodity called ‘access to justice’ exists, but it is thoroughly monetised, like everything else. The poor suffer, the rich laugh, as ever.

  144. @Priss Factor

    This crap has to be a leg-pull, surely. When I saw ‘chest-feeding’ I checked the calendar to see if I’d slept through March.

  145. @Reactionary Utopian

    Most self-proclaimed ‘Christians’ I see these days are sorts of non-Jewish Judaics and people who would gladly crucify Christ again if he returned.

  146. ‘…Sixth, almost all of the celebrated shootings and brutality by police result from disobeying a cop’s orders…’

    Meh. I was assaulted, thrown to the ground, and handcuffed. I had (quite politely) refused to answer the cop’s questions.

  147. Trinity says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Oh, boy, where to begin. Dude, do you honestly think that Jews and Eye-talians are all super criminals? Do you honestly think there are no dumb ass Jewish or Italian criminals and all Irish guys and rednecks are meth addicted dopes? ROTFLMMFWIAO.

    Okay, lemme see, you had the serial killer and cannibal Albert Fish = Jew. Sam Berkowitz = Jew and before I go on how many Jewish celebrities do drugs or have killed themselves with drug overdoses. And guido spaghetti eater types were always getting arrested for petty crimes like assault, assault and battery, shoplifting, theft, or at least they were back in the day. You must be watching too many movies. I remember being in NYC when there was a case that garnered national news coverage, it involved a Jewish couple, Joel Steinberg and Hedda Nussbaum. This POS Steinberg beat a 6 year old girl to death, the girl whose name was Lisa had been illegally adopted by Hedda, Steinberg’s live in lover. Oh, and Steinberg who was apparently a crack cocaine addict and liked to beat the shit out of Hedda as well. You should have seen pictures of the beaten and cowed Hedda, it was pitiful. What a piece of work this guy was, a real pillar to the community.

    Oh and another case about a year before this case involved a Jewess victim, one Jennifer Levin, who was killed by Robert Chambers. This case also made national headlines in the summer/fall of 1986. I doubt Ms. Levin or Robert Chambers were drug free and they certainly had partaken in a few drinks, I believe Chambers might have been of Irish descent, who knows and who cares. I could list countless low level Jew and Italian common criminals or just psychopathic killers like Albert DeSalvo, whether DeSalvo was the real Boston Strangler or not, the guy was a career petty criminal. Oh, and how about the rabbis being caught selling body organs in New Jersey? How about the rabbi caught on the show, “To Catch A Predator?” Oh, man that one was priceless. Maybe I am missing something here but I don’t see Jews or Italians as that smart at all, I find many Jews weird, disturbed and pretty damn backwards to be honest, most treat women like shit. My Italian brothers with their one-two-tree, lemme ax you a question, and there other idiosyncrasies? Lovable, but a little annoying at times, but boy can they cook.

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  148. Mike Tre says:
    @A.K.Patal

    In a sane country with and honest cj system he would not have even been arrested, you slack jawed hindu troll.

    • Agree: Colin Wright
  149. @brabantian

    The vast majority of those black guys who cop a plea are guilty. The stereotype of the innocent black man who is railroaded by a racist DA is Jew/liberal propaganda. The real injustice are the countless black criminals who are let off by liberal DAs with little or no punishment. That having been said, the US justice system—civil and constitutional, as well as criminal—is grotesque. It’s more corrupt, not to mention irrational, than those of most Third World countries.

    • Replies: @Colin Wright
  150. @MichaelWme

    “I met one young lawyer who had gotten a job as an assistant prosecutor, but he was so incompetent that many of his defendants received very short sentences, so he took a job as a Public Defender where he always admits his clients’ guilt and agrees to whatever sentence the prosecutor requests.”

    It’s past time to not only shut the law schools down, but burn them to the ground and salt over the ground upon which they stood.

  151. @Trinity

    Robert Chambers was Irish-Catholic and, it is alleged, a former victim of the cardinal.

    Obviously Whitey Bulger was no meth-addicted incompetent fool to run Boston for 20 years.

    And obviously Amy Fisher & Joey Butts were stupid.

    Let me tell you what I believe. Northern Europeans are not cut out for crime. They evolved into a high trust society because it was cold. Also, the post-1960s had a worse effect on them.

    Similarly, it is possible that rape as a genetic evolutionary strategy might have actually evolved in Africa as oppose to the pair-bonding of Europe. This is only a theory, however.

  152. @RoatanBill

    I rarely agree with you but … 😀

    In Europe drugs were the most natural thing in the world well into the 30s.
    (“Potente Hirne stärken sich nicht mit Milch, sondern durch Alkaloide” –
    Gottfried Benn)
    Heroin was a cough syrup (works beautifully) and a less addictive alternative to morphine (also as advertised). Freud was a heavy coke snorter (okaaay…).

    Islamic rulers tried to ban kif (hash) not under kullu müskürün haram
    (generalized ban on intoxicants) but because it made the true believers a bit too peaceable.

    Only in the US from 1906 was raised (unabashedly and often hilariously) the spectre
    of wild-eyed dope-crazed nigger fiends raping White damsels, and gradually they forced that view on the world; did I mention George Washington grew his own reefer?

    – The prohibition on drugs may be slightly less idiotic than the bans on alcohol and prostitution but it comes from the same root (and begets the same societal results) –
    and that root is deeply sick.

    • Thanks: RoatanBill
  153. @dfordoom

    My objection to drug takers is due to my not understanding why someone would want to get high. Losing control of your faculties and drifting off into some drug induced stupor and liking it means not having a functioning brain. I could never trust such people.

  154. @nokangaroos

    The problem, as Fred Reed pointed out, is that if crack cocaine was legal too many people would try it once out of curiosity & end up addicted.

    That has been the problem with meth. It became available in the rural sticks among whites who would never have driven into the ghetto to score (For one thing cops watch the ghettos for whites trying to score) now we have a million “methanys”.

    Also, unemployment among women of working age in Las Vegas is-or was-somewhat lower than other states. There are arguments for & against prostitution, of course. But I do believe unemployment among able-bodied young women was lower.

    The fact of the matter is that some women (Or males who are gay) are too unsocialized, dull, ineducable etc for anything else but the oldest form of manual labor in the world.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  155. @nokangaroos

    The people that want drugs outlawed are just regurgitating the party line, having never really thought about the topic themselves in most cases. The same goes for prostitution. People want it made illegal because of their nonsensical religious views.

    Driving vices underground doesn’t eliminate them, but does seriously enhance the negatives associated with them.

    • Replies: @nokangaroos
  156. Ugetit says:
    @nokangaroos

    …did I mention George Washington grew his own reefer?

    You just did.

    Did I mention that,

    In 1799, George Washington’s distillery produced nearly 11,000 gallons, making it one of the largest whiskey distilleries in America.

    https://www.mountvernon.org/the-estate-gardens/distillery/

    And that Jefferson was also involved in the cultivation of hemp, “industrial,” of course, and advised,

    …as soon as the male plants have shed their farina, cut them up that the whole nourishment may go to the female plants.

    https://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/hemp

    He merely advised saving the female plants to obtain the seed, of course. 😉

    As far as banning prostitution, I think it ought to be legalized because, you know, it’s the laws that cause the violence and VD that can be associated with it. In other words, if it were made legal, then it would cease to be a problem, or so I’ve been told! I mean, just look at the Netherlands; the “profession” isn’t a bit degrading or sleazy in that wonderland of liberality, izzit?? 😉

    • LOL: nokangaroos
  157. @Tom Rogers

    Hi!

    The URL is http://www.canlii.org. I understand that it is was set up in association with The U of Montreal. I am handicapped with dial-up so finding non congested and informative sites like that are a treasure. I can’t even google to fact check points that I try to make on Unz.com without having to wade through molasses if I am lucky. If I ever had to rationalize a reason for moving to Nigeria it would only be because they have better (and cheaper) internet than where I live in Canada. C’est la vie.

    Cheers-

    • Thanks: Tom Rogers
    • Replies: @Tom Rogers
  158. @Jeff Stryker

    Don´t know too much about crack except the chemistry and the social ramifications,
    but it seems easier substitution would go a long way also.

    – It has been argued it was their meth (“Pervitin”) that made the Wehrmacht so superior
    (Allied benzedrine by and large only made talkative). First-order side effects
    (paranoia, bouts of violence) were well-known, hushed up and not altogether undesired.
    Again, unlike Vietnam, there were few problems with addiction.

    But the salient point is that every prohibition is a source of revenue for organized crime, with attendant dependencies, deprivations and adverse health outcomes.
    Moral: Think twice, then think again, before you ban as much as gambling.

    (Don´t get me started on “The Mom as national trauma” (H.J. Stammel)
    and the Nineteenth 😛 )

  159. @RoatanBill

    Unlike Mr. Stryker I never thought of prostitution in terms of employment
    (though it makes sense and would decidedly improve quality) but it reminded me …

    a few years ago I was in Gastein/Austria and the mayor had just banned all
    Scandinavians from the entire valley (savour what that means in a region wholly dependent on tourism 😀 ); see, in their homelands ethanol is priced out of reach of the 99% and wherever
    they find it they go on a binge followed by a rampage – they are a pestilence.

    Fuck the nanny state.

  160. @restless94110

    It seems that we are shadow-boxing against different walls in different districts.
    Your wall is in the high academy whereas mine is in hearsay on the ground or in the sewers below.

    Regarding “puff pieces.”

    FRANCE 24 English‬
    A closer look at Finland’s ‘open prisons’
    44,430 views
    • May 18, 2018
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P28uBM0ryU

    At 3:58 . . . “OK, I stabbed a guy but he attacked me” . . .
    He admits self-defence which is a serious offence in Finland. A pervert country, maybe not the best example for Americans to follow.
    ___________

    CBC
    Abderrahman Bouanane said he attacked on behalf of ISIS, but militant group never claimed responsibility
    Thomson Reuters · Posted: Jun 15, 2018 7:08 AM ET | Last Updated: June 15, 2018
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/finland-mass-stabbing-sentence-1.4707384

    Leaders in Finland, which has a low crime level, were shocked by the attack and many politicians have called for a tightening of immigration rules.

    The president was blubbering “this must not cause intolerance.”
    The killer attended school among young children.

    • Replies: @restless94110
  161. Ugetit says:

    But the salient point is that every prohibition is a source of revenue for organized crime, with attendant dependencies, deprivations and adverse health outcomes.

    That’s true, but banned or not, organized crime seems to be able to make a profit of practically anything, especially if they can pervert it in some way. It does make sense that banning stuff does tend to goose their profits, though. On the other hand, maybe banning ususry isn’t always such a bad idea, but who knows. My advice is to avoid debt like the plague it usually is, especially public debt, but what does an old fart such as myself know?

    Moral: Think twice, then think again, before you ban as much as gambling.

    Agree, and I’d add that people would do well to think thrice about engaging in that ridiculous behavior.

    • Agree: nokangaroos
  162. @Oikeamielinen

    It seems that we are shadow-boxing against different walls in different districts.
    Your wall is in the high academy whereas mine is in hearsay on the ground or in the sewers below.

    What the devil are you on about, mate? Because I attended a presentation in a university, I have a wall in the “high” academy? Are you high?

    And why do you keep on doing the single case thing? By the way, I’m not talking about lunatic refugees that should never have been admitted into Scandinavia at all. Take note that I said the idea of Finnish prisons was to re-integrate the men who had served their sentences back into society.

    Refugee criminals never were integrated and are a clear danger to the entire society. Furthermore, just because they now have a cuck for a president, has nothing to do with what I said about how they do punishment by incarceration there.

    I have no idea what a “pervert” country means. And I stand by my comment that there is much to be learned from how their prisons are run as well as that the American prison system is among the worst in the world.

    • Replies: @Oikeamielinen
  163. MrVoid says:
    @HT

    If you are worried about black people, then prohibition isn’t the way to go. Black gangsters are made wealthy thanks to the war on drugs. I’ve sometimes privately wondered if the war on drugs isn’t secretly favored by our White-hating overlords precisely because of this. End the war on drugs now. Let’s make personal responsibility a thing, not just something we pay lip service too.

    • Replies: @europeasant
  164. [quote]”Your choice may depend on whether you have a daughter in college.”[unquote]

    Your choice may equally depend on whether you are the one innocently accused. The point, I believe, of Blackstone’s ratio is that in a flawed human system, there has to be a trade-off of two evils. The lesser evil, ten guilty men going free, is still an evil, but relatively not as unconscionable as condemning an innocent man. Obviously in applying the ratio one assumes comparability of seriousness. We are not comparing speeding fines with errors of impunity in lurid murder cases.

  165. @restless94110

    Are you high?

    No. I am slightly crazy by nature.

    And why do you keep on doing the single case thing?

    The anecdote is the wisdom of the common man.

    I have no idea what a “pervert” country means.

    A country where self-defence causes persecution by the constabulary and the judiciary. Common in Finland.

    I have no quarrel with integration of prisoners into common society and there may indeed be features in the Finnish system that merit study. The problem is that some journalists have gone all-out ga-ga and have lost all sense.

    • Replies: @restless94110
  166. There were several posts upstream supporting the theory that attorneys do valuable work in negotiating plea deals that lighten the load on the system and in cases save money for the accused as a result of it. Certainly this is true but what the proponents of this line of thought have either ignored or are wholly ignorant of is that the system started this ball rolling for their own benefit.

    To wit, I grew up in red blooded healthy rural environment where a natural progression into manhood involved ‘scrapping’ with local toughs to determine your ranking so to speak. This was a totally healthy partaking and the girls enjoyed it as much as anyone else. There were no weapons, eye gouging or kicking the opponent when he was down. Many times the combatants shook hands and had a beer together afterwards.

    If the cops showed up almost every time they separated the pugilists and sent them on their separate ways and the worst consequence if the scrap was in too public a place they issued a fine for ‘disturbing the peace’ as yours truly experienced.

    My point is this. The very same scrap these days with the constabulary showing up would result in charges of assault, disturbing the peace, resisting arrest at the very least. Then the kid would get a shyster who would be connected to the particular court who would negotiate a deal which would seem like a bargain but is in fact the dropping of some superfluous charges when arguably one or none should have been laid in the first place. The result is a guilty plea and a criminal record for a kid just getting started in life. Sweet.

    In larger scenarios consider the case of ex-media mogul Conrad Black. He was indicted for 17 counts and underwent a grueling and super expensive show trial and was eventually convicted on 3 counts (IIRC). In subsequent years he appealed and had two more removed. The one that stuck was a minor one where a video showed him carting a box of documents out of his office which was not one of the ones already seized. He spent $150 million+ on his defense, 3 years in jail and had his reputation ruined. His excellent book “A matter of Principle” and newspaper columns almost regularly excoriates the horrible principle of loading up the charges to give the house the insuperable
    edge and make it almost foolhardy to reject a deal. He keeps mentioning in his column that over 97% of cases in American jurisprudence are settled thusly.

    So big or small, you enter the justice system as a pig and come out as a sausage if they take a notion that you should not prevail. Loading up charges guarantees it and your asshole lawyer becomes part of the system in telling you to take the deal. And then you pay him for it.

    Cheers-

    • Agree: Achmed E. Newman
    • Thanks: Majority of One
    • Replies: @Spanky
  167. @Oikeamielinen

    The anecdote is the wisdom of the common man

    The common man? So one guy out of 10,000 acts a fool and that is wisdom? The anecdote is the wisdom of the retarded.

    A country where self-defence causes persecution by the constabulary and the judiciary. Common in Finland.

    I have no quarrel with integration of prisoners into common society and there may indeed be features in the Finnish system that merit study. The problem is that some journalists have gone all-out ga-ga and have lost all sense.

    Finland and all of Scandinavia has taken a turn for the worse due to feminist dominance. I have no argument with you there. What I am speaking of predates this wrong turn. It worked and was working.

    Also agree with you obviously that journalists are a major part of the problem in most societies. They are not journalizing any longer, instead are ignorant hysterical activists.

    Again, this has nothing to do with the Finnish style of prisons. My point stands and has nothing to do with academia. Their system is superior for their society than the American. If the Finns decide to degrade their society via murderous raping Islamic refugees and their police and president cuck? That’s still nothing whatsoever to do with their prison practices.

  168. @Enemy of Earth

    Thanks for the story, E.o.E., but even more thanks to your son for being a stand-up American. There ain’t that many anymore.

  169. @Ugetit

    As you have probably noticed, there are many people on this site who cannot exercise judgement and realize that in the real world things are complex with many different causes. They expect simplistic one size fits all solutions which are basically fantasy. With or without gun control, the crime rate in the inner city will be higher than among the Amish. With or without drug laws, drugs will still be a problem. Not that the laws are irrelevant, but they are far from being the ONLY factor. Thanks for your post; it adds some historic perspective!

  170. Spanky says:
    @Timur The Lame

    So big or small, you enter the justice system as a pig and come out as a sausage if they take a notion that you should not prevail. Loading up charges guarantees it and your asshole lawyer becomes part of the system in telling you to take the deal. And then you pay him for it. — Timur The Lame

    Or her… And you will be ground into sausage even if you “win”. Dated an attorney for many years (don’t tell anyone). She had a t-shirt which read:

    Your misery is my money.

    Of course, she never wore it into court or around clients.

    • Replies: @Timur The Lame
  171. Sulu says:

    Nice article Fred. And mostly spot on. You might have saved yourself some ink and simply said that the so called U.S. Justice System is the largest bag of shit ever to be foisted off on an unsuspecting public. But it is better than anarchy. Only slightly better though.

    I’m a White male in my sixties and my closest brush with the legal system was a speeding ticket while I was in my twenties so I can pretty safely say I am not of the criminal class. But even so I do know that cops are not your friends. They are there to bust you and the best thing you can do when dealing with them is to keep your mouth shut and know your rights. The more you say the more likely you are going to give them something they can use against you regardless of your guilt or innocence.

    Most law abiding people are most likely to encounter the law during a traffic stop. This means you need to have your paperwork handy, including your license, and never ever drink and drive. Keep your hands on the wheel while the cop approaches and don’t make quick movements. Give the cop “yes sir” and “no sir” and in his mind this helps to make him feel in charge and that you are a civilian and not a criminal. Comply with his wishes and give him respect and if you weren’t fucking up too much there is a fair chance he will let you go Scott free. It’s common sense but it is surprising how many people don’t seem to know this. Especially young black males.

    I used to do a lot of International travel and you start to realize that the U.S. Customs have more that just a superficial resemblance to the gestapo. Despite not being guilty of anything, re-entering the country is a bit nerve racking because you know these people can literally take you in a room and look up your ass if they want to. The first few times through the system they take a pretty close look at you because you are new to them. After that the monster usually goes back to sleep and then merely opens one sleepy eye when it next sees you.

    I assume most gestapo/customs agents are ex military so I found I got less attention from them if I tended to look like them. Most customs agents were White males with short hair so I would get a military short haircut the week before I intended to re-enter the country. This tended to help me to not be singled out, I suspect. There is a very human tendency so assume that if someone looks like you they are like you. And, cops are human. Hard to believe but it’s true.

    My worst re-entry was when I got a short, dyke cop that had a face that looked like a rectal prolapse. After the usual questions the cunt started asking me about my sex life overseas. I had to bite my tongue to keep from telling her I was probably getting more pussy than she was. I finally told her that with all due respect to her badge my love life was none of her business but I did mention I was engaging in normal hetero sex. I stuck that last part in just to underline the fact that her love life was far from normal without saying as much. This got me about ten minutes in a room while they went through my luggage. Then they had to let me go.

    My easiest re-entry was when I got a 50 something ex Navy guy. I knew he was Navy because I could see part of a Navy tattoo on his shoulder and he was buff and had the typical military bearing. He asked me what I was doing in the Philippines so without hesitation I told him I was scuba diving and chasing brown women. A little Mona Lisa smile crept up to his lips as he told me, “Welcome back.”

    Sulu

    • Replies: @Jeff Stryker
  172. @Sulu

    How would you feel if you were underpaid & people were returning from exciting business or pleasure trips tanned, fit & glowing while you were stuck in poor-paying job in airport seeing everyone happy to leave the third world decaying pit the USA has become.

    Multiply that by 50 when you are a squat, unattractive Lesbian & white men are fleeing the country to live happy lives with exotic beauties because they simply cannot be bothered to put up with the stress or pressure of trying to meet the unrealistic expectations of American women & simply move to simpler more pleasurable places?

    At the bottom of it, all of them know that people like you & I won’t live in the USA. We feel we are above its values, its oligarchy which has now reduced the population to Opoid-addicted serfs, the white guilt we don’t care about, the Cholos, the crime etc.

    Also, you are not breaking the law. You can stand there all day & all they are doing is wasting tax payer’s money.

    Some Americans are too good for the BS of the USA. We would rather work/live overseas where we don’t pay taxes. We enjoy life.

    So look at this way. Soon you’ll be watching another tropical sunset in Leyte on the Pacific with some beautiful Wari girl beside you. They will never understand the power or glory of good living overseas.

    • LOL: Sulu
    • Replies: @Sulu
  173. Sulu says:
    @Jeff Stryker

    Nice response. You had me going there for about the first paragraph. Then I read the rest. And you are, of course, correct. America is now a third world shithole. And if I’m going to live in a third world shithole I might as well live in a country where the climate is warm and the women are hot and available. Men that have never been to Asia just do not understand the availability for sex that the average White man has. I know men my age that have had nine or ten lovers in their lifetime and they think they know about women. It makes me laugh because in my thirties I might have had nine or ten girls inside of a week.

    [MORE]

    I used to take voluntary bumps in Tokyo on my way back to the states for the simple reason that I didn’t have to be anywhere at any set time and with the bump you get a free 4 star hotel room, free food and a free plane ticket. And of course a nights sleep turns a 24 hour trip into about a 13 hour trip.

    Any way, I arrived home, took a shower, got a change of clothes, and decided I had only been up for 15 hours or so and what I really wanted was to hit the steak buffet in the town about a half hour from my home. I realized my eyes probably looked like two piss holes in the snow and I considered taking my passport with me to show a cop just in case I got stopped. But then I thought, “What are the odds of getting stopped?” So I left my passport home. And of course I got stopped by a State Cop. I wasn’t even speeding. He told me I was weaving and considering I was driving a big diesel truck on a narrow road it might have been true. But I think it was just a typical fishing expedition.

    He asked me if I had been drinking and where I was going so I told him I don’t drink and drive and that I had just stepped off a plane from Japan, that I have been up for 15 hours, and all I wanted was to get a steak from the buffet in the next town. He gave me the hard cop eyes for about five seconds, you know the cop eyes, they must pass them out at graduation ceremony at the police academy. Anyway he gave me the eyes for a few seconds, then he must have decided I was telling the truth and he let me go.

    I was fairly buff myself in those days and I did have the haircut. I am going to guess that he assumed I was military and just in from some battlefield. I didn’t see any reason to dissuade him from his assumption.

    I do remember thinking as I was driving away that I had just spent many months in several different countries and never had any interaction with a cop. And I had been back in the States for about two hours and already got pulled over. Pretty easy to conclude that we live in a police state in America.

    Just as an aside, when I was in college I roomed for several years with a cop. He was a friend of mine before he became a cop which was the only reason I had some trust in him. The shit he told me was eye opening. For one thing, almost all the rapes on campus are committed by blacks against Whites. He seemed to think that in the black community if a man asked a woman out and she said yes it was tantamount to agreeing to sex. So a black man buys a White girl dinner and then takes her somewhere for a little necking and when the girls says “no” to going all the way he rapes her figuring she owes it to him for the price of the dinner.

    My friend said that the girls would come in to the station disheveled and in tears. After a hospital examination confirmed the sex they would go looking for the rapist. 90% of the time they would go to their dorm room and find the perp in bed without a care in the world. As the arrest proceeded it started to gradually dawn on the dumb fucks that they were looking at 10 years in the pen just for a piece of ass. You have got to laugh at how stupid blacks are. I know some people that think 10 bucks is a bit too much to pay.

    Sulu

    • LOL: europeasant
  174. @Spanky

    Your secret is safe with me. Of course you are right with the fact that I should have made it a him/her in the sentence but I am sick of the woke bullshit that you encounter in books written in the last 10 years or so where the genders are used intermittently as opposed to traditionally.

    You might notice innocent sentences in paragraphs such as “when the community of bankers was presented with the new rates the individual banker would resist and SHE would immediately respond…” Or “confronted with the burden of overlooking several hospitals the average CEO would naturally depend on HER staff…” It is crude pseudo subliminal bullshit.

    Conversely try to find “with the weight of the bags increasing, the average sanitation worker decided that she would demand…” or ” forking manure in areas where methane discharges could prove fatal, Alice realized that…”

    At least they know their boundaries and don’t get into infusing the female gender in vocations such as topping Redwood trees.

    On the “win” thing you are correct again. The fear of incarceration induces many a guilty plea legal issues notwithstanding. And the bundling of charges is directly proportional to the system’s estimate of the defendant’s will to fight and what they estimate to be his resource$.

    In the general context of justice it is interesting to reflect on an outlier situation such as the OJ Simpson case. Here the system doesn’t have it’s ass on the fryer but is always anchored with the “justice has to be seen to be done” bullshit. We have a popular nig-nog who is as white as can be (and he wants to be) and he (allegedly) kills his white ex-wife. So far so good. The spanner hits the wheel when he (allegedly) Beni-Ha -Ha’s a nice Jewish boy. Problems.

    I won’t even start with my analysis but just sticking to the original theme of this thread, this was a perfect example on how pliable the law, or justice can be when the entire nation is watching 24/7 .
    All serious respect to Johnnie Cochran. It was a mugs game and he did his job.

    When you have a situation where two people were brutally murdered and it ends up being a great gag across the nation in addition to late night jokes and “dancing Itos” denigrating the much needed to be denigrated retard Judge Lance Ito what possible respect can any sane person have for what is called justice?

    Also due to this case, RIP the “N” word.

    Cheers-

    • Thanks: Spanky
  175. @stevennonemaker88

    Very sensible ideas. They threaten the vast income of powerful people, however.

    • Agree: stevennonemaker88
  176. @another fred

    you are right about criminals —- now reflect on how bad the bottom 10 percent of parents are. Parents are, by definition, the group of people who should care most about others, and the bottom 10 percent of parents are …. very very bad. Thank God if you live far from places where such people are considered normal.

    That being said, the bottom 10 percent of criminals are, as you said, deeply repulsive in a way that, let’s be fair, none of us who understand want the people who do not understand to have to understand.

  177. @Enemy of Earth

    Great story. You raised your son well, it seems.

  178. @Ray Caruso

    ‘The vast majority of those black guys who cop a plea are guilty. ‘

    Indeed. I’ve heard the opinion of two criminal lawyers; one was kind of the dean of the criminal defense lawyers in Oakland, California, and the other was a semi-retired attorney with a more provincial practice.

    The first was pretty disgusted: not only was essentially everyone he defended guilty, but they were such bad actors that the D.A. wasn’t prepared to plea-bargain and so the family had to pony up the cash to hire Spencer.

    The second commented that he had once had a client who was convicted who he actually thought was innocent. Once.

  179. @MrVoid

    “Black gangsters are made wealthy thanks to the war on drugs”

    Maybe they are better off carjacking, robbing, raping shooting and killing?

  180. Bite Moi says:
    @anon

    Look at Kyle Rittenhouse and then remember Mike Nifong.

  181. Jokem says:

    My opinion. The purpose of the legal system is to provide employment to people involved in the legal system. It is tolerated because it provides a tolerable level of justice.

    • Replies: @Ray Huffman
  182. Gene Su says:
    @Marckus

    FBI Agent Joe Pistone (Donnie Brasco) once said that no police force in the world deters crime as well as “Wiseguys”, whether they are Italian Mafioso, Japanese Yakuza, or Chinese triads. If you are even suspected of robbing or mugging or raping someone, they’ll make sure you never see the light of day again.

    I have also questioned on this blog why black gangsters won’t do the same thing in their ghettos. They always like to rap and rant how they are so tough and stuff. If they were to murder everything single black hoodlum who went about robbing, mugging, and raping they might be able to make their ‘hoods far more livable.

    • Replies: @Jokem
  183. Jokem says:
    @Gene Su

    ‘If you are even suspected of robbing or mugging or raping someone, they’ll make sure you never see the light of day again.’

    Unless it is a sanctioned operation…

    • Replies: @Gene Su
  184. @Jokem

    It is tolerated because, until recently, it provided a tolerable level of justice.

    FTFY.

    • Replies: @Jokem
  185. Jokem says:
    @Ray Huffman

    Actually, no. Since it still exists, it is tolerated. If it were not tolerated, it would be gone.
    As long as we have the vote…

  186. Gene Su says:
    @Trinity

    The problem is that there are a lot of laws on the books that should be struck off. Libertarians have for years been advocating going through our law books and striking off any crime that is “victimless”. The biggest example is the War on Drugs. Doing drugs will not hurt anyone but the drug user. If we de-criminalized marijuana, meth, heroin, and other such narcotics, we might see a decrease in crime and gang violence. A lot of lawmakers think that they can socially engineer an utopia by outlawing harmless vices.

  187. Gene Su says:
    @Jokem

    The Mafia will never sanction one of their members to rape someone.

    • Replies: @Jokem
  188. @Trinity

    “Prisons often turn petty criminals into mass murderers. Carl Isaacs and Charles Manson are two fine examples.”
    Clyde Barrow would be another.

  189. Jokem says:
    @Gene Su

    I don’t believe that. I believe they might for retribution.

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