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Twinkie on health care:

The fundamental problem with healthcare in the United States is three-fold. First, medical insurance is not a true insurance system – it is an entitlement system which guarantees a higher payout (in benefits) than costs paid. That is clearly unsustainable, because it rewards overuse. What will really fix the system is to de-couple health insurance from employment and then it should be made to become a true insurance system, whereby people pay out of pocket for primary care and then seek insurance benefit only for what today would be called “catastrophic” illnesses/injuries (the premium for which should be, in turn, quite inexpensive).

That sounds a lot like auto insurance. If companies provided auto insurance and in turn auto insurance covered oil changes and tire rotations, it’d be a lot more expensive, too.

What about the relatively novel subscription model? It has exploded from nothing to hundreds of primary care facilities in the span of a few years. Clients pay a physician something like $80 a month for all the visits, virtual consultations, common prescriptions, and basic operations the clients need. They get a subscription and barring something catastrophic occurring, they’re set. Some facilities accept insurance but many, maybe most, do not. With the ACA non-compliance penalty at zero, it’s a sensible approach for a lot of healthy people.

Twinkie continuing on costly CYA:

The second necessary fix is tort reform. As it stands now, any negative outcome for patients (whether caused by healthcare providers or not) is a lottery jackpot for them (and far more of a boon for medical malpractice lawyers). And these days there is A LOT of negative outcomes due to the poor health of the general public (which in turn is largely due to poor diet and sedentary lifestyle). Not only does this increase medical liability costs for the providers, it dramatically increases the costs of healthcare provision by forcing the providers to practice “defensive medicine,” which reportedly eats up a third of the total healthcare costs in the U.S.

Twinkie’s third prong deals with bureaucratic overregulation:

The third fix is deregulation of medicine. People often complain that doctors get paid too much, but physician salaries are not what drive the increase in healthcare costs. Physician services account for roughly 20% of the total healthcare spending. Of that amount, about half is the cost of practicing medicine. In other words, actual physician income is 10% of the healthcare costs. Even if, say, you make physicians take a massive pay cut of 20%, it’s only going to reduce healthcare expenditure by 2%. What’s driving up the cost of medicine – as in the education industry – is the massive rise in “administration” (and compliance). For every doctor there is at a hospital, there is now an army of clerks and desk-bound staff who do byzantine regulatory-compliance and other paperwork. Practice of medicine today is extremely bureaucratic – even though it is notionally not government-run, it is largely dictated by government regulations and is run like a government-provided service. Until that is fixed, just as with education costs, healthcare costs will continue to balloon.

Medicare-for-all or the car insurance approach both strike this blogger as better than the current system. Politically, we demand both the best, most cutting edge care in the world and affordable coverage for all Americans. There is an inherent, unresolvable tension between these two demands.

MattinLA isn’t much encouraged by the integrity collapse of the major media over the last few decades. To the assertion that the neo-liberal establishment couldn’t get away with Iraq Attaq today, Matt wonders where I’ve been over the last year:

The insane lies they’ve gotten away with about this phony “plague” are a million times worse than those uttered during the Iraq war. And the damage incalculably worse. We are on the verge of full scale communism. If media skepticism was some sort of game changer, we wouldn’t be in this situation. I think we are past the stage where wry comments and dry irony can save us.

I’d call it totalitarian corporatism rather than communism. Fed money creation, strangulation of small retail operators, and severe disruption in the rental market–the eviction moratorium is still in place–have been great for large corporations. And now forever Covid vaccines promise new perpetual income streams for the pharmaceutical companies that own big shares of both major political parties.

If two years ago you’d been told that seeing a parent, going to church, or going to work would require explicit government approval, you’d have scoffed at the absurdity and yet here we are. Allowing for Matt presumably being in Los Angeles, which has been more restricted than just about anywhere else in the world over the last year, his is a tough point to argue against.

Almost Missouri suggests throwing Qaddafi to the scorpions was an even greater blunder than toppling Saddam Hussein was:

Obama’s and Hillary’s pointless and gratuitous war against Libya in order to show that lefties could make war too not only destroyed the cooperative government of a strategic country, it also served notice to every second- and third-tier power that the only sure way to prevent an arbitrary attack by the US is to make sure you have WMDs. None will be foolish enough to give up their WMD programs anymore.

Sounds pretty bad, and he didn’t even mention it opening up the migration floodgates from Africa into Europe.

Reacting to the revelation that close to half of African women bleach their skin, Paperback Writer offers the very sensible insight that people should accept themselves for who they are. After all, it’s hard to celebrate diversity if you won’t admit it exists:

There are good looking and bad looking people of all races. People really should accept their racial characteristics.

He can write that, can’t he? Is a white man criticizing black women for making their skin whiter cultural imperialism or fighting against cultural imperialism? Beats me.

 
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  1. “Tort ‘reform’”, just like anything named “reform”, is the biggest scam coming down the pike.

    Tort reform my ass.

    Most people, and/or their loved ones, have suffered malpractice in their lives. Often more than once. Did you hear me? Most people. A majority of people.

    And most of them, a majority of them, do not sue, no matter how horrible the outcome.

    But you fucking asshole Tort “Reformers,” just like you do with everything, act like the sky is falling, that there are so many people, everybody and his mother, suing suing suing. Which there definitely ain’t.

    What a bunch of lying goddam horseshit. I hope you get to go to the doctor soon. Suckers.

    Above all, when you get over 80 or so, count on them to malpractice on you with full abandon at the drop of a hat. Because nobody gives a shit about people over 80. Especially doctors.

  2. What is it with this realization that everybody is having that suddenly, suddenly, the media is not trustworthy?

    Back in the 60s, everybody with any sense knew that the “bourgeois media” did nothing but lie lie lie all the livelong day. This was not a question.

    Everybody knew the news was all lies, and everybody knew also that the alphabets are out to get you, no matter who you are, no matter how law-abiding, and fer crissake don’t rock no boats or you’ll draw attention to to yourself.

    I am reminded of why nobody with any sense got tattoos in the 60s. Why? Because we all got enough identifying marks on us already, what with scars and cicatrices and appendix sutures and such. Why hand your apprehension to them on a platter? Make ’em work a little for their money, what the hell.

    Maybe it was cable that made everybody forget that media is wall-to-wall lies, always has been, and always will be. (Many choices must mean freedom! It only stands to reason.)

    So, now, all of a sudden, oh, gee willikers, golly, goshamighty, yikes, and odds bodkins, what have they done to my news, ma?

    Grow up.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  3. dfordoom says: • Website

    I’d call it totalitarian corporatism rather than communism.

    Isn’t totalitarian corporatism just a nice way of saying fascism?

  4. dfordoom says: • Website
    @obwandiyag

    Back in the 60s, everybody with any sense knew that the “bourgeois media” did nothing but lie lie lie all the livelong day. This was not a question.

    Everybody knew the news was all lies, and everybody knew also that the alphabets are out to get you, no matter who you are, no matter how law-abiding, and fer crissake don’t rock no boats or you’ll draw attention to to yourself.

    I’m more and more amazed, and more and more depressed, by the number of things the counter-culture was right about. The counter-culture was right about the media, right about the Vietnam War, right about the CIA and the FBI, and right about the military, and to a certain degree at least right about the cops. The counter-culture was right to be suspicious of capitalists. The counter-culture was correct in its belief that society had become too materialistic and too obsessed with status. The counter-culture was right in distrusting politicians and the political process.

    I used to despise the counter-culture so it’s rather alarming to realise that they were mostly right.

  5. Altai says:

    So… Should you just ignore what the most successful countries do with their health care? Yes? Okay.

    • Replies: @Wency
    , @Reg Cæsar
  6. dvorak says:

    ‘Twinkie’ is about as authoritative as his name.

    He missed a main driver of health costs for the average family: Private health insurance premiums pay for obscene hospital bills and chronic-care bills that are inflated in order to launder the money to make up for Medicaid-paid care.

    Every month that you pay hundreds of dollars for health insurance, half of it is ‘foreign aid’ to give first-rate hospital care to the populations that hate your guts: blacks, browns, addicts, men who have sex with men (MSM) and immigrants.

    To avoid this, opt-out entirely and go to the faith-based health share companies. Or get into the catastrophic (below bronze) tier and pay as little per month as possible.

    • Thanks: Almost Missouri
    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @Franz
    , @Anon
    , @Rosie
  7. MattinLA says:

    Thanks, Audacious, for your comments. Yes, I live in Los Angeles. I grew up here, which does much to explain my pessimistic attitude. My kids are still not back in school, after more than a year’s absence. I guess my post comes from years (decades?) of people assuring me that the absurdity of our woke masters would lead to their demise. That just making fun of them in an ironic sort of way would puncture the balloon, ending this nonsense among general laughter. Instead, things have just gotten worse and worse. Ridicule has just made them stronger. What can stop them? Not words. We are beyond that now. Much more is needed.

  8. Why should I care about healthcare reform? There’s lots of patients left untreated because of the COVID scam, and there will be even more as the healthcare system is cannibalized from inside.

    Flee the healthcare system like the legacy media is fled.

  9. Rosie says:
    @dvorak

    He missed a main driver of health costs for the average family: Private health insurance premiums pay for obscene hospital bills and chronic-care bills that are inflated in order to launder the money to make up for Medicaid-paid care.

    Twinkie’s proposals are mostly sensible. He is absolutely right about health insurance not functioning as real insurance, with only unforeseen catastrophes being covered and other expenses paid for out of pocket. On the other hand, I couldn’t help but notice that we didn’t get a detailed breakdown of the cost of lawsuits and related “defensive medicine.” I suspect it wouldn’t be much more than the 10% he dismisses as trivial in doctors’ salaries. Of course, I could be wrong about this as I’ve never researched the issue, but lawyers are an easy target.

    I am also skeptical of claims about excessive paperwork. Well-functioning, honest institutions don’t just happen. A degree of bureaucratic oversight is necessary. As to whether there is too much, too little, or not enough, I have no opinion.

    What about the relatively novel subscription model?

    I have an arrangement like this for my furbabies. It works quite well.

  10. neutral says:

    You can come up with clever health systems as much as much as you want, it will never be able the fix the racial issue. Nobody can seriously believe that Nigeria or Congo can have a good healthcare system no matter how well it is set up. The same applies to America, inferior races eventually produce inferior outcomes, no matter how much the remaining high IQ gutmenschen try to keep the trains running on time.

  11. Franz says:
    @dvorak

    Every month that you pay hundreds of dollars for health insurance, half of it is ‘foreign aid’ to give first-rate hospital care to the populations that hate your guts: blacks, browns, addicts, men who have sex with men (MSM) and immigrants.

    This is why the libertarians in the 1970s wanted No Third Party Payers.

    Medicine will be practiced on a for-fee basis. Pay the rates or get nothing.

    Insurance companies and medical groups eat tons of money that should be going to actual practitioners. And when there were no insurance companies, there were community-funded hospitals that always had a few GPs who’d take the charity cases. This will mean going without the other things they didn’t have in the Good Old Days, like the FDA, CDC. DEA, but you gotta break some eggs to make an omelette.

    Eventually the medicos will get paid their rate, count on it. All the shiftless sponge patients will have witch doctors to fall back on. And they’ll be better off too.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  12. I’d call it totalitarian corporatism rather than communism.

    What’s the difference?

    There are good looking and bad looking people of all races.

    Clearly the gentleman has never visited [INSERT COUNTRY HERE], where there are no good-looking people at all.

  13. @dfordoom

    Finally.

    Isn’t totalitarian corporatism just a nice way of saying fascism?

    It takes an Australian to point it out.

    In the United States, the term fascist has degenerated into an all-purpose, content-free term of abuse. Hardly anyone remembers that the word possesses an objective, sensible meaning.

    One could quibble with the details of your definition but your definition is so much more nearly accurate than that which one usually hears that I do not think that I shall quibble. Close enough.

    @Barack Obama’s secret Unz account

    I’d call it totalitarian corporatism rather than communism.

    What’s the difference?

    Communism is communal in theory, rather than corporate? Fascism exalts force and the state in principle, whereas communism exalts these only in practice. Communism preaches equality; fascism, a natural, nonaristocratic hierarchy. Communism tolerates folkways; fascism celebrates them.

    More significantly, communism is universal, whereas fascism is ethnic (or ethnoclerical) and national.

    Also, communism operates from a general theory of history it regards to be scientific. Fascism, rooted in blood and soil, has little patience for that.

    Communism and fascism are more or less opposite ends of the horseshoe.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  14. My last comment was too pedantic. Please pardon.

    More significantly, communism is universal, whereas fascism is ethnic (or ethnoclerical) and national.

    Also, communism operates from a general theory of history it regards to be scientific. Fascism, rooted in blood and soil, has little patience for that.

    The prosperous, democratic citizens of a liberal commercial republic are not required to care about the difference between fascism and communism. They are free to disdain both.

    However, when one’s prosperity is threatened, one’s democracy is corrupted, one’s liberalism is bewokened, and one’s great organs of commerce grow hostile, one can be forgiven for wondering whether genuine fascism might not have a few points in its favor.

    • Replies: @HallParvey
  15. @Franz

    The success of the insurance mafia is proof that you’re correct. Every dollar of profit the insurance industry gets is a dollar that didn’t go to health care.

    The problem with healthcare is the cost. Having a 3rd party payer does nothing to decrease the cost and helps increase the cost by adding another profit driven player in the loop.

    If there is no 3rd party payer, then common sense and simple arithmetic would conclude that the medical industry can only ask for payment the patient base can afford. This also reduces nuisance doctor visits by people that figure they want a return on their insurance premium and run to the doctor for every sniffle.

    Any chronic or catastrophic illness that requires expensive treatment might be the area where a Medicare type plan funded from taxes sets some reasonable limits on what can be charged. Allow the market to operate to discover a balance point where critical care facilities are willing to accept what Medicare offers.

    I once paid $2,000 out of pocket for a bag of saline and 10 minutes of a doctor’s time to diagnose dehydration after driving around all day after the A/C failed. I had insurance with a $5000 deductible with huge monthly payments because I was self employed. That type of cost is just unreasonable.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  16. @MattinLA

    Reminds me of the boomercons I know.

    Ho ho ho, silly millenials with 5 genders! Wait till the real world hits em! (Meanwhile in reality their grandkids are getting brainwashed in school and cutting off their penis).

    Ha ha ha, American Airlines and their diversity pilots! Just wait till the planes start dropping from the skies with Shaniqua as the pilot! 😂😂😝. (Don’t really see what’s so funny about this).

    People are in denial about what’s coming. Imagine Bolshevism but with the racial dimension. Soon boomers will be laughing about how tyrone is raping them in the prison camp. The mass scale destruction of white society is underway.

    • Troll: Corvinus
    • Replies: @anon
  17. @dfordoom

    The counter-culture was right about the media, right about the Vietnam War, right about the CIA and the FBI, and right about the military, and to a certain degree at least right about the cops.

    Oddly, now that those former counter-culturalists are in charge of the media, the wars, the CIA, the FBI, the military, etc., they are less trustworthy than ever.

    Thank you for your service, counter-culturalists!

    The counter-culture was right to be suspicious of capitalists. The counter-culture was correct in its belief that society had become too materialistic and too obsessed with status. The counter-culture was right in distrusting politicians and the political process.

    Counter-culturalists now in charge of those things too. Hmm, weird. Almost like they never meant their criticism sincerely; they just wanted to own the place.

    • Agree: Twinkie
    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @Barbarossa
    , @dfordoom
  18. Anon[369] • Disclaimer says:
    @dvorak

    ‘Twinkie’ is about as authoritative as his name.

    Twinkie is one of the best commenters on Unz and I read his comments closely. The man doesn’t write even one an unreasoned sentence.

    • Thanks: Twinkie
  19. Twinkie says:
    @Rosie

    On the other hand, I couldn’t help but notice that we didn’t get a detailed breakdown of the cost of lawsuits and related “defensive medicine.” I suspect it wouldn’t be much more than the 10% he dismisses as trivial in doctors’ salaries. Of course, I could be wrong about this as I’ve never researched the issue, but lawyers are an easy target.

    As of 2017, the total healthcare expenditure was about $3.5 trillion. Of this amount, about $700 billion were attributed to defensive medicine. Physician income is annually estimated at about 10%, so would have been about $350 billion that year. In other words, defensive medicine – which adds zero value and in fact subtracts value (e.g. overuse of antibiotics, etc.) – was twice that of total physician compensation.

    Note that I never suggested that physician income was “trivial,” but rather that cutting physician income (say by 20%) would have a very small effect on total expenditure (2% in this hypothetical case). And cutting physician income by 20% would incur a highly undesirable outcome of a dramatic decrease in physician labor pool.

    I am also skeptical of claims about excessive paperwork. Well-functioning, honest institutions don’t just happen. A degree of bureaucratic oversight is necessary.

    In 2017, administrative costs were $812 billion in the U.S. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31905376/

    Results: U.S. insurers and providers spent $812 billion on administration, amounting to $2497 per capita (34.2% of national health expenditures) versus $551 per capita (17.0%) in Canada: $844 versus $146 on insurers’ overhead; $933 versus $196 for hospital administration; $255 versus $123 for nursing home, home care, and hospice administration; and $465 versus $87 for physicians’ insurance-related costs. Of the 3.2-percentage point increase in administration’s share of U.S. health expenditures since 1999, 2.4 percentage points was due to growth in private insurers’ overhead, mostly because of high overhead in their Medicare and Medicaid managed-care plans.

    Limitations: Estimates exclude dentists, pharmacies, and some other providers; accounting categories for the 2 countries differ somewhat; and methodological changes probably resulted in an underestimate of administrative cost growth since 1999.

    Note that the total healthcare expenditure in this research doesn’t add up to the above $3.5 trillion due to the exclusions noted. If the same ratio held in the excluded expenditures, admin costs in 2017 would have been about $1.2 trillion.

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
  20. Twinkie says:
    @Almost Missouri

    It’s hilarious how clueless and off-target Dfordoom is about lionizing the 60’s “counter-culture” people as being right in their criticism, because, as you noted, they are the ones who took over these major institutions of the country and implemented the very things they accused of and attributed to their elders and predecessors, only much more extensively and in far greater scale than ever before.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @Almost Missouri
  21. Twinkie says:
    @RoatanBill

    I once paid $2,000 out of pocket for a bag of saline and 10 minutes of a doctor’s time to diagnose dehydration

    Did you go to a hospital ER? Did the staff run any diagnostics or tests on you? Saline is charged anywhere between $100 to $800. Even at the high end, I can’t see a consult being $1200. Your number would make more sense if you used an ED room and staff plus some diagnostics.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  22. @dfordoom

    The counter-culture was asking many of the right questions but often with the wrong answers. I give them credit for trying though, even if there was a great deal of cluelessness and misdirection.
    It’s kind of like Marx. He is in general, absolutely correct in his critique of capitalism. When it comes to the proposed solutions, not so much.

    • Agree: Rosie, TomSchmidt
  23. @MattinLA

    I agree with your analysis that the media’s lies are just as bad now as ever, however, I think there’s a subtle distinction between now and, say, the Vietnam or even Iraq war era. Namely, back then all coverage was corporate and there were really no options for consuming alternative media. Obviously there were more channels in 2003 than 1965 but they were still all corporate and pushing mostly the same points. Now, there’s such a diversity of viewpoints out there and so many different narratives floating around that it’s easy for people to get tangled in the web of lies. Basically there are more numerous lies going around, and people are wont to believe whichever lie fits into their preconceived notions (Qanon, Russiagate, etc.) The truth is certainly out there, but the number of options- especially red-herring options that seem to be truthful- make it hard to find.

  24. anonymous[149] • Disclaimer says:

    Libya wasn’t a blunder, it was a crime. And it wasn’t pointless either. Aggression in Libya had the very advantageous consequence of transplanting domesticated CIA terrorists to Africa. That justifies AFRICOM garrisons that can counter Chinese investment with Syria-type resource seizure.

    And Africa is a place where nuclear WMD are not a problem: the Pelindaba Treaty already rules out African nukes. The US has no problem with chem/bio WMD in Africa: check out Kenema Hospital in relation to that ebola epidemic – you know, the one that spread 2000 miles in bats without infecting anybody along the way, really confused bats who migrated north instead of south like all the other bats in Congo. Africa’s the petri dish of CIA’s mad scientists.

  25. @Almost Missouri

    In the counter-culture I think there was the usual mix of honest critics along with the fashionable hangers on and bandwagon jumpers.
    As with many movements there are more of the latter than the former.
    The fact that the counter-culture did not really have a coherent vision for moving past what they were criticizing doomed them to fail in their visions of change.
    That being said, it’s really not surprising that so many of them became “The Man” they supposedly hated.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  26. @Twinkie

    It was late that night that I started to feel real bad. The ER was the only medical place open, so I went to the ER.

    Does the ER visit make the price I paid reasonable? I say no. There were no tests. The doctor saw me for a maximum of 10 minutes and had an assistant put me on an IV drip till the bag ran out. That was the extent of it.

    Is $800 reasonable for salt water?

    BTW – the floor of the room I was in was filthy with blood and other stains.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  27. dfordoom says: • Website
    @MattinLA

    I guess my post comes from years (decades?) of people assuring me that the absurdity of our woke masters would lead to their demise. That just making fun of them in an ironic sort of way would puncture the balloon, ending this nonsense among general laughter. Instead, things have just gotten worse and worse. Ridicule has just made them stronger.

    If you want to defeat the Wokesters/globalists/SJWs you need to present some vision of the future that ordinary people will find more attractive than the vision the Wokesters are offering.

    Which means that your alternative vision of society has to be emotionally appealing. It has to make people feel good.

    The problem for the enemies of Wokeism (the dissident right, the traditionalist right, White Nationalists, social conservatives, conservative Christians, etc) is that their vision of society appears to most people to be less attractive and less emotionally appealing. Their visions of the way society should be tend to come across as negative, nasty, unrealistic and just not very palatable.

    Plenty of people intensely dislike the extremism of Wokeism but if you want to oppose an unpleasant extremist ideology you’re better off offering a package that seems sane, moderate and appealing.

    • Replies: @MattinLA
  28. Twinkie obviously knows his stuff here, and I would trust his recommendations more than any paid or political officials. He uses the term “entitlement”, which is true for government-paid healthcare, but I would add the term “tax-efficient compensation”, which is the term that compensation consultants use when designing benefits packages to go with your middle- or upper-class salary. The peculiarities of the US tax system are a driver of the peculiarities of the US healthcare system. In other words, if your employer anticipates that you’ll spend, say, twenty percent of your salary on healthcare, they can give you that twenty percent as an untaxed “medical insurance” benefit thereby making twenty percent of your salary tax-free without actually paying you more. In other words, your employer is trying to help you, but the the government makes it complicated.

    What about the relatively novel subscription model?

    I knew a doctor back in the 1980s who claimed that this is how it was done in China and she advocated bringing that to the West too. (Why anyone would want to bring Maoist China to the modern West, I don’t know, but then again, it’s pretty much happening in real time as type this, so I guess there is a compelling reason I haven’t heard about. Also, I think that doctor was literally a card-carrying member of the Communist Party.)

    The subscription model, though, has a couple of perverse incentives: 1) the patient, having already paid the subscription, has an incentive to use as much healthcare as possible, and 2) the doctor, having already received the subscription, has an incentive to give as little care as possible to the patient. Sounds like a recipe for perpetual arbitration. OTOH, Rosie says it works well for her pets, but maybe the stakes for pets are lower than for your self and family.

    To be fair to the commie doctor, above, her subscription system had one little twist: if you became unwell, you didn’t have to pay your monthly subscription again until you were cured. So the doctor has an incentive to keep you healthy and to cure you quickly and permanently if you become ill. And the patient is relieved of a financial burden at exactly the time when the patient is medically incapacitated. So is that “one weird trick” that redeems the subscription model? Maybe. I imagine that in the US, anyone unwell in a subscription system would quickly become a dispute about whether that was a pre-existing condition or not, for example. Still, it’s worth a try. Can’t be worse than the system we have now.

    • Thanks: Twinkie
    • Replies: @res
    , @Audacious Epigone
  29. dfordoom says: • Website
    @V. K. Ovelund

    More significantly, communism is universal, .

    Communism doesn’t need to be universal. Socialism is a system that can only survive with borders.

    whereas fascism is ethnic (or ethnoclerical) and national

    Not any more. What we have now is globalist universalist fascism. That’s why it’s best to refer to our current system as neo-fascism. It’s not your grandfather’s fascism. But it is still a form of fascism.

  30. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Almost Missouri

    Oddly, now that those former counter-culturalists are in charge of the media, the wars, the CIA, the FBI, the military, etc., they are less trustworthy than ever.

    Are those things really run today by ex-hippies? Or are they run by the same elites that were running them in the 60s?

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  31. Twinkie says:
    @RoatanBill

    I went to the ER.

    I don’t know exactly what your charges were, but ERs are very expensive. I had a very bad case of food poisoning once and was sent to the ER from my PCP. My total charges were several multiples of what you paid.

    The reason for the high cost is rather simple – operating an ER is extremely expensive. ERs have to be staffed with highly trained personnel and fully-stocked with equipment and drugs and have to run 24/7 and take everyone who walks in or is brought in by ambulance. It’s the highest readiness part of a hospital (which itself is enormously costly to operate to begin with).

    You could go to your PCP and get the same treatment and the cost would be a fraction of what you paid, because running a simple medical office doesn’t incur nearly the same cost as running an ER.

    That’s why you go to urgent care rather than ER for something like what you described. ERs really ought to be utilized for actual emergencies only.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  32. @V. K. Ovelund

    My last comment was too pedantic. Please pardon.

    Being pedantic is never a sin. In fact, it’s essential. It’s only when we leave lowly basic understanding and soar into the loftier realms of advanced thinking do we become succeptable to confusion. How else to explain the burgeoning multiplicity of theories concerning money, sex, politics and religion. They can’t all be right.

    When contemplating reality, always return to the basics to avoid being sidetracked by pretty theories. If something quacks like a duck, flies like a duck, and swims around the lake, it might be a duck.

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
  33. @dfordoom

    Anyone who ran anything in the 1960s is dead today.

    • LOL: Twinkie
  34. @Twinkie

    My incident was well over 20 years ago. There was nowhere else to go at 11PM during those days on the outskirts of Plano, Tx.

    The entire medical industry in the US is a cartel. Costs are kept high on purpose by restricting supply.

    I’ve related my island medical experience on this site before so I won’t go into a lot of detail, but I got a serious arm injury while working steel by being careless with an angle grinder. In the hospital, one surgeon to look at the extent of the damage, one doctor to sew me up along with 2 nurses over a period of about 2 hours, lots of disinfectants, gauze, etc and my bill was the equivalent of US $0.50 . That’s 50 cents. I have no insurance of any kind here and that includes no vehicle insurance. That’s 16 years of no insurance premiums of any kind.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @A123
  35. Twinkie says:
    @RoatanBill

    Costs are kept high on purpose by restricting supply.

    That is simply not true.

    my island medical experience

    What island?

    In the hospital, one surgeon to look at the extent of the damage, one doctor to sew me up along with 2 nurses over a period of about 2 hours, lots of disinfectants, gauze, etc and my bill was the equivalent of US $0.50 . That’s 50 cents.

    So three trained workers x 2 hrs = $0.50. Roughly $0.08 per man hour. That’s so fantastic. You should live there wherever that is. What’s the average salary, $0.04 per hour?

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  36. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Twinkie

    It’s hilarious how clueless and off-target Dfordoom is about lionizing the 60’s “counter-culture” people as being right in their criticism

    I wasn’t lionising the counter-culturalists, merely pointing out that the criticisms they were making back in the 60s have turned out to be substantially correct.

    The counter-culture began in the late 50s. It was mostly a Silent Generation thing. The early Boomers became involved later but the thought leaders were mostly Silent Generation.

    Most of the leaders of the 60s counter-culture are now dead or in their 80s. They’re not really running things today. They’re in nursing homes if they’re still alive.

    The people who are running things today are mostly too young to have been part of the Summer of Love. The Summer of Love was 54 years ago.

  37. @Twinkie

    I live on Roatan island, hence my handle.

    Check out the graph and then tell me that prices aren’t rigged.
    https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  38. Thanks for the tip, but I want to make clear that my self-acceptance advice referred solely to things you can’t change, such as hair texture, skin color, and height.

    Weight’s a different matter. It’s partly genetic but the obesity epidemic proves that it’s also environmental. Some of us have to work harder than other to keep a normal weight. Pudgy folks have my sympathy but the frankly obese have only themselves to blame (unless they are truly sick).

    Pre-covid, I remember being in an elevator with a fat black woman who was scarfing down chocolate covered yogurt balls. I could hardly contain my disgust. Not only was she fat, she was heavily made up and sported fake nails. I also remember thinking, why be disgusted? I see this all the time.

    Boomer alert: black chicks like *this* were common. Not fat, not fake, not flat. Just an ordinary girl whose habits didn’t ruin nature’s gifts. (It’s a pic of a random girl on Venice Beach, CA, 1965. I didn’t have to search hard to find it. This is a candid photo of an everyday girl.)

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @V. K. Ovelund
  39. Rosie says:
    @dvorak

    half of it is ‘foreign aid’ to give first-rate hospital care to the populations that hate your guts: blacks, browns, addicts, men who have sex with men (MSM) and immigrants.

    You forgot old people. The AARP pushes the idea that infinity health care for old people is a human right and demand that young people be forced into an expensive “health insurance” system so they can subsidize their care. For all the bellyaching about taxes, it is really student loans, child care costs, and health insurance premiums that are grinding young couples into the dirt precisely when they should be thinking about having children of their own.

    And don’t even get me started on housing prices being driven through the roof by rent-seekers investors of the same vintage.

    I don’t want to pick on boomers, because NABALT, but we have a problem with lack of intergenerational amity that probably stems, at least in part, to the unprecedented demographic changes that have been forced on us..

    • Agree: Almost Missouri
    • Replies: @Anonymous
  40. Mark G. says:

    If you take remaining years of life for those over 65, the U.S. actually does slightly better than many European countries. In the previous comments provided by Twinkie, he included tables showing the cure rates for heart disease and cancer here in the U.S. are often better than European countries. They appear to be saving money over there by providing lower quality and less medical care for old people.

    Most European countries, however, have a higher overall average life expectancy than the U.S. So how is it that they provide worse medical care for the elderly but people there live longer? Part of this is demographic differences, but it also appears that we may be under spending for preventive care for younger people. We have a powerful senior citizens lobby and they have allied themselves with the health insurance lobby, drug company lobby, and medical lobby to direct too much money to end of life medical expenses.

    In a free market system these decisions on spending would be made by consumers but the government is heavily involved both here and in Europe and the European governments have done a better job in maximizing life expectancy for the amount spent. We might want to focus more on preventive medical care for younger people and encourage better health habits. We should try to get people out of the mindset that medical professionals are miracle workers and that we can abuse our bodies with a poor diet, lack of exercise, cigarettes, alcohol, and drugs and after a lifetime of that we will then spend huge sums to deal with the effects of all that.

  41. @MattinLA

    We need a leader. Someone with Donald Trump’s ideas and guts, but without his personality defects. People never do anything without leadership and that’s not a wish for an Il Duce or a Fuehrer, it’s just the way us humans roll.

    • Agree: V. K. Ovelund, Catdog
  42. Dry Irony Won’t Save Us

    Explicit White Identity Will Save Us.

    White Core Americans must automatically see themselves as the European Christian ancestral core of the people and the colonizers and the settlers and the pioneers who arrived and conquered and made the land in the North American continent a bastion of British Protestantism and then European Christendom.

    The anti-White attacks emanating from the JEW/WASP Ruling Class of the American Empire and the power centers they control are waking up White Core Americans to the demographic dangers they are in.

    The 1619 Project was a great thing in that it brought history and identity and racial reality to the fore and it lovingly popped the Puritan Upper Middle Class Snot Brats by suggesting that sub-Saharan African Negroid slaves arrived here earlier than 1620 and that rock.

    That scampy New England prick named Philbrick actually wrote a book on the Mayflower around 2007 to steal thunder from the Virginia Company and 1607. Cheeky bastard! I like his books and recommend them. Beaver pelts and the like ultimately producing the dreaded and destructive and civilizationally calamitous Finance and Insurance and Real Estate(FIRE) sector currently running amok with the aid of the privately-controlled Fed.

  43. Rosie says:
    @Paperback Writer

    Weight’s a different matter. It’s partly genetic but the obesity epidemic proves that it’s also environmental. Some of us have to work harder than other to keep a normal weight. Pudgy folks have my sympathy but the frankly obese have only themselves to blame (unless they are truly sick).

    By the grace of God, before long, we will identify precisely those genes that, in a given environment, produce slim, pudgy, and obese people, at which point we can finally start exploring viable solutions.

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
    , @res
  44. @Twinkie

    Doesn’t a lot of our healthcare expenditure come from two things that are preventable?

    1. Horrible lifestyle choices, among which obesity is the prime factor
    2. Excessive end-of-life, so-called “heroic” measures to prolong the last 3-6 months?

    I’m not an expert on any of this, so be nice.

    There was an actually good discussion of this in the comment section of a NY Times article about saving the elderly in the beginning of the covid crisis, but I’m damned if I can find it.

    • Replies: @Wency
  45. Wency says:
    @Altai

    Well, there’s a case for trying to fix the current US system rather than overthrow it. And that case is, even if the US government copied the best system in the world, whatever you think that is, you can be confident it would be screwed up and function considerably worse here than over there, for a variety of reasons.

    I think for the average person, you couldn’t do much worse than our current system. But I suppose my family would stand more to lose than to gain from a big change.

  46. A123 says:
    @RoatanBill

    The entire medical industry in the US is a cartel. Costs are kept high on purpose by restricting supply.

    For ER’s, the “must-take” laws create a huge communist/socialist problem. Uninsured individuals show up at the ER with every common ailment including dental problems. To cover these expenses the ER massively over charges everyone with insurance.

    If you are uninsured and receive a huge medical bill, trying to negotiate is step #1. Odds are you can receive a 50-80% mark down from the “rack rate”.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Mark G.
  47. Anonymous[199] • Disclaimer says:
    @Rosie

    I don’t want to pick on boomers, because NABALT, but we have a problem with lack of intergenerational amity that probably stems, at least in part, to the unprecedented demographic changes that have been forced on us..

    Nothing was forced on anyone. Americans chose for 50 years to breed below 2.5. TFR. Nobody forced anyone to spend their 20s & 30s earning a law degree, playing violin, or blogging. If they had spent their youth wisely and reproduced, America would still be a mostly European country with a favorable age distribution. Now y’all want to blame immigrants & Dimmycrats for your dysfunction. C’mon y’all, don’t you know the entire world is watching you act like this? Act a little more honorable than you really are.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  48. @Paperback Writer

    Some of us have to work harder than other to keep a normal weight.

    True.

    Pudgy folks have my sympathy but the frankly obese have only themselves to blame (unless they are truly sick).

    Secret diet tip to interested readers: starve yourself. Consistently employ a simple kitchen scale, be objective about it, avoid complex schemes, keep a rudimentary diary, accept that you will probably be on a diet for the rest of your life, and starve.

    ‘Tis much cheaper than the diet clinic, it works every time, and the weight once lost tends not come back.

    [MORE]

    Persons that eat too little are never fat, or do not stay fat at any rate.

    To be clear, as someone who for years weighed 40 pounds (20 kg) more than I ought, I am not unsympathetic. Quite the contrary. In a world full of soft drinks, cheese puffs and 16-inch-diameter pizzas, it’s hard—and as you rightly observe, harder for some than for others. Yet the fact remains that food does not levitate into one’s mouth.

    All those video ads that advise you that starving oneself does not work are utter nonsense. My advice costs less and actually works: pain is your best and only friend, so starve yourself!

    Exercise helps, too, but starvation is the main point.

    (If you fast today, incidentally, the money the fast saves will buy you that kitchen scale this very afternoon.)

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
    , @Rosie
  49. @dfordoom

    So right, dfordoom.

    I keep vainly trying to point out to people that everything the “hippies” did, the “beatniks” did. In retrospect it’s obvious now that the difference was simply a matter of a few years.

    Most of the leaders of the 60s counter-culture are now dead or in their 80s

    True, the real leaders were virtually all Silent Generation reprobates. I can’t think of one seminal figure of the counterculture who was a Boomer. I say “seminal figure” because the movement was amorphous and didn’t have leaders.

    The Boomers who actually got to wield power were followers who were profoundly influenced by them, however:

  50. @Rosie

    By the grace of God, before long, we will identify precisely those genes that, in a given environment, produce slim, pudgy, and obese people, at which point we can finally start exploring viable solutions.

    I sincerely doubt that but it doesn’t affect the fact that now, we don’t.

    So my simple tip is: avoid empty, trashy calories. Just cut that junk out of your diet, immediately. You’ll probably lose a few pounds as a result of that. Eat whatever healthy foods your tradition encompasses, whether it be meat or 7th Day Adventist vegetarianism, Mediterraean diet, whatever. Three moderate meals a day, no snacking. See what happens.

    If you want to lose more, experiment with cutting portion size and/or intermittent fasting as V.K. Ovelund suggests.

    Exercise comes last. Most of us won’t be Michael Phelps, using up thousands of calories with exercise. But when you’re thinner you’ll want to move more. Do it!

    • Replies: @Rosie
  51. This dances away from the sad underlying disease: Most people are helpless chickenshit morons who’ll gladly defer to whatever shingled quack bends their ear with enough flimming, regarding nearly any specialty.

    Americans are deeply over-medicalized, hypochondriacal, and disconnected from listening to their generally self-healing bodies instead of overpaid middleman shysters who—miracle of miracles—coincidentally built a cush guild and had it enshrined in ‘law’. They should all be tarred and feathered, including the support staff.

    [MORE]

    Medicine is rightfully the realm of each sentient non-criminal adult. Without guild/criminal interference I could set up a medical practice tomorrow that would serve the average ailing person better than the TikTok fraud squad has. My practice would dispense primarily placebos (physical or procedural), and would still have superior bang for buck. My most prized recommendation for my patients: adequate sleep. What a genius! I must make it illegal for mere mortals to dispense similar advice professionally. That’ll be step 2.

    Most popular modern ‘medicine’ entails thwarting the body’s defenses at every opportunity while being paid multiples when that brings its usually inevitable permanent deficiency which demands more of the ‘cure’, hopefully in the form of regular ‘treatments’ until death.

    Medicos estimated pre-‘CoViD’ that medical mistakes were the third leading killer in the US. Certainly, rack your brain formulating how to make such a service more affordable.

    In the something-for-nothing shell game of ‘health care insurance’, the cheapest, most effective and reliable miracle (the generally self-healing body) is intentionally cast aside and pish-poshed.

    Yes, there are many instances where skilled intervention is required. They are true emergencies, and much outnumbered by regularized quackery and lab-coat scamming.

  52. Mark G. says:
    @A123

    Uninsured individuals show up at the ER with every common ailment including dental problems.

    I had a Mexican female friend who tried to sneak some of her relatives across the border. The border police caught her and while trying to escape she got into a fight with them and then managed to escape. California law enforcement was then looking for her so she decided to go on the lam by driving back here to Indiana where she had lived previously so she could visit her brother who was in prison here previously. She had a bleeding tooth from the fight and wanted me to go to the hospital emergency room with her and keep her company while she was waiting. I told her she should go to a dentist for that and she said she didn’t have insurance so a dentist wouldn’t see her. That was kind of eye opening to me that we have a system that funnels people into hospital emergency rooms for minor problems like dental problems.

  53. @dfordoom

    College hippie John Brennan voted for Gus Hall, Communist, for US President. Three decades later, domestic terrorist-sponsoree Barack Obama couldn’t find anyone he preferred among 300 million Americans than this “former” Communist to direct the Central frickin’ Intelligence Agency. Since then, the now totally not communist Brennan has decided that the most important function of the above-the-law three letter agencies is to protect the government from its citizens.

    The world was better off without these counter-culturals. It still would be.

    • Agree: Twinkie
    • Replies: @dfordoom
  54. Wency says:
    @Paperback Writer

    As for #2, there was a pretty good article a while back, “How Doctors Die”. Talking about how doctors are generally much more reluctant to get major, dubious interventions in late stages of their lives, because they know how terrible it is.

    I personally had an experience like this with my father. He was given 6 months to live. Yet a massive medical intervention bought him, amazingly, 15 years. It probably cost the insurance company several million dollars over the years. And yet his quality of life was absolutely terrible — blind, largely bedridden, his mind increasingly mush — and it dragged down my mother’s quality of life. We never said it out loud, but I was fairly certain, even 2 or 3 years in, that we’d all have been happier if he had just died after around 6 months and made the most of that time.

    Modern healthcare can almost always buy you some more time. But only in a few situations can it buy health, and it turns out that, of the two, health is worth a lot more. It seems there’s an inverse relationship between how extensive and costly an intervention is and the quality of life you can hope for it to bring.

    People worry about “death panels” cutting someone’s life short who could have still enjoyed a good and long life. That sounds kind of scary. Our current system is basically incapable of making this mistake, because other than things like putting you low on the list for organ donors, it never really evaluates whether an intervention is “worth it” — it always powers ahead, costs and quality of life be damned. It turns out this isn’t necessarily a good thing.

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
  55. @Twinkie

    Yeah, BTW, I wrote you a rather long comment on the late end of an old post. You don’t have to respond. I just wanted to know if it had been read or if those pixels were lost into the ether.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  56. Rosie says:
    @Paperback Writer

    I sincerely doubt that but it doesn’t affect the fact that now, we don’t.

    You can doubt it all you want, but twin studies demonstrate that body size is under substantial genetic control.

    Twin concordance rates are twice as high for identical as fraternal twins.

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/359582

    So my simple tip is: avoid empty, trashy calories.

    You can give people advice all you want and it won’t do a damned bit of good. Even the health care establishment is starting to acknowledge this.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/obesity-research-confirms-long-term-weight-loss-almost-impossible-1.2663585#:~:text=There’s%20a%20disturbing%20truth%20that,impossible%20to%20permanently%20lose%20weight.

    Exercise comes last.

    Wrong. Losing weight isn’t that hard. People do it all the time. The hard part is keeping it off. An active lifestyle with an enjoyable athletic pursuit as a major part of one’s life is the only way to do that.

    Indeed, if people would just stop worrying about thinness and just start enjoying an active lifestyle, the problem would, at least, stop getting worse.

    The right normally takes a realistic and accommodating view of human nature. Not so with weight. I suspect this is because your average man has literally no idea whatsoever of what is involved in maintaining a socially acceptable body weight, nor would they be willing to live on the kind of food their wives would have to prepare to maintain their wedding-day figure.

    This is not directly on point, but I suspect if you asked men and women to estimate the calories in given food items, women would be much more accurate.

    https://cn.reuters.com/article/instant-article/idUKKCN1UR5O4

    I think this is why men are caught off guard by their wives’ weight gain. They see their wives eating normal portions of normal foods and think it’s fine, until the pounds start to add up over a period of years.

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
  57. @dfordoom

    I disagree with both you and V.K. Ovelund.
    Fascism took its name from fasces, the bundle of sticks surrounding the axe used as a symbol of strength by the Etruscans and Romans. It emphasized the need for everyone needing to work together. All of the “fascist” movements were moralistic, some more than others. While Mussolini stated that fascism was the state and business merging, that didn’t mean business had a free hand. He put in place, the highest employment standards in Europe (possibly the world) and enforced them, creating methods for workers to enforce those rights outside of courts. Universal health care was introduced, and banks were nationalized. Germany, Spain and Portugal had their own versions.

    None of that is happening today. Today, the mantra is that the government should not interfere in anything, and should own nothing. In fact, businesses are unaccountable for most things. Sure the US will pick on someone, like Volkswagen, every now and then, but by and large business is not held to account. There may be a merger of state and business, but it isn’t the fascist version of merger.
    As for Communism, it is not socialism. Communism is state control of the economy, which is what the banks have today. That is the antithesis of socialism, which in its ideal, will make the state irrelevant in the economy. Finance capitalists are the commune, in their view, the rest of us are useful idiots or useless eaters.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
  58. res says:
    @Almost Missouri

    The subscription model, though, has a couple of perverse incentives: 1) the patient, having already paid the subscription, has an incentive to use as much healthcare as possible, and 2) the doctor, having already received the subscription, has an incentive to give as little care as possible to the patient. Sounds like a recipe for perpetual arbitration.

    This. Any attempt to design policy without considering the effects the resulting incentives will have on the participants is doomed to failure. What percentage of Current Year stupidity could be cured just by fixing this blind spot?

  59. res says:
    @Rosie

    By the grace of God, before long, we will identify precisely those genes that, in a given environment, produce slim, pudgy, and obese people, at which point we can finally start exploring viable solutions.

    Until that is available, a good start would be to look at what worked for keeping one’s grand/parents at a reasonable weight. Unless those earlier generations were overweight when it was uncommon it is unlikely someone has any obesity related genetic issues which can’t be dealt with by controlling their diet.

    To be clear, I don’t deny the difficulty of doing this in the US right now. The price and availability of terrible foods is optimized for and the social environment in many places outright discourages healthy eating (as one example,many people don’t like those who are different from them, if for no other reason than they make them feel guilty about their own choices).

    Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

    • Replies: @A123
    , @Rosie
  60. A123 says:
    @res

    The fact that many commercially promoted “health foods” are awful adds to the problem.

    What exactly is “wheat grass”? It cannot be a good idea.

    PEACE 😇
     

    [MORE]

  61. res says:

    First, medical insurance is not a true insurance system – it is an entitlement system which guarantees a higher payout (in benefits) than costs paid. That is clearly unsustainable, because it rewards overuse. What will really fix the system is to de-couple health insurance from employment and then it should be made to become a true insurance system, whereby people pay out of pocket for primary care and then seek insurance benefit only for what today would be called “catastrophic” illnesses/injuries (the premium for which should be, in turn, quite inexpensive).

    I largely agree with that, but I think we should consider adding another category to the discussion. I believe it would be helpful for the government to be involved in ensuring every citizen of this country (I consider those in the country illegally a separate issue) has some level of baseline care.

    What exactly that baseline would be is a difficult question which no doubt would be extremely contentious, but how about this? Fund an annual (or biannual?) doctors appointment which would cover a basic physical exam including a minimal blood panel (like this for $26.25 right now, consider how much it would cost you to have that blood test administered through your current medical plan for an idea of just how much overhead there is). I do think an MD (rather than say a nurse practitioner) would be appropriate for this, because I think it should include things like a visual melanoma screen, but that is arguable. For instance, see this paper discussing the melanoma screening example: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11567843/

    Something like that would allow tracking changes over time and catching issues before they become catastrophic. I would like to think having a simple uniform procedure would allow for economies of scale, but our government has a poor track record there.

    Beyond that it would be as Twinkie described. One issue I see there is how to avoid moral hazard with the catastrophe insurance. Once you have a catastrophe the situation becomes the same as now, and unless the process of meeting the catastrophe threshold is more onerous than the cost of dealing with non-catastrophes I think we would just end up seeing “catastrophes” everywhere.

    The key here (an impossible dream it would seem) is to get people to take responsibility for their own health as much as possible.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  62. @Barack Obama's secret Unz account

    I’ll follow Jerry Seinfeld’s assessment of the situation:

    Jerry Seinfeld : I still can’t believe, you’re going out on a blind date.

    Elaine Benes : I’m not worried. It sounds like he’s really good looking.

    Jerry Seinfeld : You’re going by sound? What are we, whales?

    Elaine Benes : I think I can tell.

    Jerry Seinfeld : Elaine, what percentage of people would you say are good looking?

    Elaine Benes : 25 percent.

    Jerry Seinfeld : 25 percent, you say? No way! It’s like 4 to 6 percent. It’s a 20 to 1 shot.

    Elaine Benes : You’re way off.

    Jerry Seinfeld : Way off? Have you been to the motor vehicle bureau? It’s like a leper colony down there.

    Elaine Benes : So what you are saying is that 90 to 95 percent of the population is undateable?

    Jerry Seinfeld : UNDATEABLE!

    Elaine Benes: Then how are all these people getting together?

    JerrySeinfeld: Alcohol.

  63. @Altai

    So… Should you just ignore what the most successful countries do with their health care?

    “The most successful countries” have systems that vary greatly among themselves. E.g., Canada’s works like our Interstate Highway System, the UK’s more like our old pre-“Service” Post Office. Many of Europe’s systems are “two-tier”, like our own.

    What these countries all have in common is what they did with their immigration systems, at least up to the birth of their current healthcare policies.

  64. @Rosie

    You managed to miss my point entirely, Rosie. Not the first time you’ve done that.

  65. @Wency

    As for #2, there was a pretty good article a while back, “How Doctors Die”. Talking about how doctors are generally much more reluctant to get major, dubious interventions in late stages of their lives, because they know how terrible it is.

    I read that. My question is I wonder how much money this is costing us or is it exaggerated?

    death panels

    For that you can thank the Evangelicals. Sarah Palin (who I realized wasn’t technically an Evangelical, but she was in their camp politically) used to yammer on about them.

    I’m sick of both sides whipping up emotions and preventing rational discussion of problems. In the real world, most of the people I’ve talked with about this know we’re all going to die and they’re against keeping dead people going.

    • Replies: @Wency
  66. @dfordoom

    Right. However, there are two kinds of counterculture, as I believe Godfrey Hodgson pointed out once upon a time. The Political and The Lifestyle. Lifestyle won (we’re all hippies now). Political lost.

    People get the two too cornfused. Thus tarring the good political with the bad lifestyle brush.

    I believe much of your disgust for counterculture is lifestyle, as well it should be.

    There are those, you know, who believe that all that lifestyle crap was deliberately injected into the counterculture (just like abstract art was shoehorned into art) by some kind of Cointelpro psyop, in order to deflect, misdirect, dissipate hard-core unadulterated political agitation.

    • Agree: dfordoom
  67. Rosie says:
    @res

    Until that is available, a good start would be to look at what worked for keeping one’s grand/parents at a reasonable weight. Unless those earlier generations were overweight when it was uncommon it is unlikely someone has any obesity related genetic issues which can’t be dealt with by controlling their diet.

    Not so. Your claim here is based on a logical error. The fact that previous generations were thin proves nothing whatsoever about whether thinness is attainable now. The question is not whether they were thin or not, but whether they would be genetically capable of thinness in the world as it is now, where, to wit,

    1. Total family work hours and commutes are longer.
    2. Smoking nicotine (a powerful antidepressant) has been socially criminalized.
    3. Doctors don’t hand out amphetamines to housewives like candy, but give them fattening SSRIs instead.
    4. We have air conditioning.

    I suspect air conditioning is a huge factor. I am just old enough to remember when it was too hot to eat three months out of the year. That’s when you lost your winter weight.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-gravity-weight/201606/body-weight-in-the-time-climate-control

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/05/12/adderall-addiction-drug-legal-column/26135649/

    • Replies: @res
  68. res says:
    @Rosie

    I would say you are the one guilty of logic errors, but you have made it clear in the past you are not worth having an in depth discussion with to sort that out. Good luck with whatever you are trying to achieve.

    • Replies: @Rosie
  69. anon[415] • Disclaimer says:
    @Smarter Than Unz dot Com

    Arguments about US health care are boring and sterile. Like arguments about WWII. Pointless, because nothing is ever settled in comboxes, and sterile because nobody outside cares.

    Plus the enterainnment value declines with every repeat of the same people rehashing the same points in the same way…and this one has been done a lot of times – although, in fairness to AE, there are always MOAR CLIX to be had with the perennial topic.

    Lemme help everyone out:

    “If only the US had adopted the health care system of Nazi Germany in 1938! Then we’d all be better off!”

    Two pointlessnesses for the price of one. For extra spice, blame it all on Jews and / or WASP’s.

    Enjoy!

  70. Wency says:
    @Paperback Writer

    My sense is that death panels weren’t so much an Evangelical as a generic Republican/Fox News issue, Palin started it and then the conservative media ran with it. And it was a top-down issue: no one was thinking about death panels until the talking heads told them to think about death panels.

    I think Palin did in fact attend an Evangelical church (though Pentecostal at one point, which tends to be lumped in with “Evangelical” but ought to be its own category). Though she doesn’t normally get thought of as an Evangelical figure — she seldom came across as thoughtful or purposeful in matters of faith.

    Back when people were discussing death panels, I thought the discussion among Christian intellectuals was reasonably good. There was an Evangelical writer who wrote a book called “The Art of Dying” that came out in support of what were being called “death panels” and a more thoughtful all-around approach to the way our society does these things.

    • Replies: @Rosie
    , @Paperback Writer
  71. Rosie says:
    @res

    I would say you are the one guilty of logic errors

    Point them out or shut up.

    • Replies: @res
  72. Rosie says:
    @Wency

    There was an Evangelical writer who wrote a book called “The Art of Dying” that came out in support of what were being called “death panels” and a more thoughtful all-around approach to the way our society does these things.

    The one thing I can see that might justify radical end-of-life health care measures would be that there might be some sort of experimental value added that would improve health for everyone, rather like military tech has sometimes been put to good use for the general population.

    Whether that is a thing I don’t know.

    Anyway, tampons have their roots in WWI. That was a massive quality of life improvement for women.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-46114453

  73. @Wency

    My sense is that death panels weren’t so much an Evangelical as a generic Republican/Fox News issue, Palin started it and then the conservative media ran with it. And it was a top-down issue: no one was thinking about death panels until the talking heads told them to think about death panels.

    Thanks for clearing it up.

    My point stands. This is a Republican fail.

    • Replies: @A123
  74. A123 says:
    @Paperback Writer

    There is a huge difference between:

    • Voluntarily encouraging people to choose hospice end-of-life as a better solution.
    • DNC appointees on Death Panels sending Deplorables to die — While at the same time moving favoured Races and other than Judeo-Christian religions to the front of the queue.

    In all politics, but especially U.S. politics, there is a huge difference between policy concept and policy execution. The Nazi-crats were polishing up their jack boots and strapping on their red armbands to staff 1940’s style Death Panels for political advantage.

    Every Deplorable alive today needs to give some thanks to Palin for opposing the horror that the DNC would have created by perverting a reasonable idea.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Paperback Writer
  75. Dumbo says:

    The destruction of Libya and the murder of Khadaffi was one of he grossest and ugliest crimes of the American Empire. Worse than a crime, also a mistake, because it generated lots of other problems such as the migration crisis in Europe later on.

    It was what turned me off completely against the neocons and showed to all what they really were — a bunch of loony psychopaths who smirk and cackle at the sight of murder and wanton destruction. Hillary’s infamous interview should be showed to all as an example of power gone wrong, or perhaps of demonic possession/witchcraft, as it’s more than evil, it seems supernaturally evil.

  76. @A123

    Have you ever actually shepherded an aging parent through the process, or are you just making this garbage up?

    • Replies: @A123
  77. @Stan Adams

    Rebuke accepted.

    The advice is still gratis, though.

    • Replies: @Stan Adams
  78. A123 says:
    @Paperback Writer

    I have been one step removed from some very hard choices, but never had to make the call myself. I would have been justifiably outraged if a DNC Nazi-crat Death Panel had taken the choice away from my family members because they wanted a specific voting demographic outcome.

    Authoritarian DNC National Democratic Socialism may seem easier, but price is too high. Germany discovered this in the 1930’s-40’s, and then forgot. They are repeating the same mistake with Mutti Merkel (Adolf v2.0).

    PEACE 😇

  79. @Curmudgeon

    Fascism took its name from fasces, the bundle of sticks surrounding the axe used as a symbol of strength by the Etruscans and Romans. It emphasized the need for everyone needing to work together. All of the “fascist” movements were moralistic, some more than others. While Mussolini stated that fascism was the state and business merging, that didn’t mean business had a free hand. He put in place, the highest employment standards in Europe (possibly the world) and enforced them, creating methods for workers to enforce those rights outside of courts. Universal health care was introduced, and banks were nationalized. Germany, Spain and Portugal had their own versions.

    All correct and all pertinent. I subscribe.

    Unfortunately, if one reads Breitbart or the like, one learns that CNN, the National Education Association, Barack Obama, Charles Schumer and even Antifa are fascists because reasons.

    I seldom argue the point, admittedly. It takes too long to explain. Fascism is, well, fasci-nating in part because it is so hard to define precisely, but the fasces is a revealing symbol for it in every respect. I think your explanation good.

    • Replies: @A123
    , @dfordoom
  80. res says:
    @Rosie

    Not worth my time engaging with you further. Cheers.

    • LOL: Rosie
  81. A123 says:
    @V. K. Ovelund

    Let me repost something I shared a few months ago. Sorry if this is a repeat for some.

    It gets to the heart of why Mussolini’s far-left SJW fascism ultimately failed.
    ____

    The Fascist Stormtroopers of Antifa are the new blackshirts (1)

    Both Hitler and Mussolini were perhaps the original and most dedicated ideological warriors for social justice. But the German National Socialists and Italian Fascists represented more than a brutal force that sent stormtroopers and blackshirt thugs to shout down rivals, block free speech, break shop windows, throw tear gas at opponents, and bash heads. They also represented a nationalist, collectivist and Marxist-inspired ideology that sought a “socially just” welfare society by redistributing everyone’s wealth.

    You cannot have National Socialism without first having Socialism. Fascism is actually a form of far-left extremism. It is diametrically opposed to the fundamental concept of individual liberty that is core to the political right.

    The Fascist Stormtroopers of Antifa hate the idea of Constitutional Rights for individuals. To Antifa, all property belongs to the state. Invading and damaging personal property is consistent with their core Fascist belief system. Free Speech is also anathema to them. Those who dare to speak against their SJW authoritarian dogma must be silenced or coerced into conformity.

    PEACE 😇
    _______

    (1) https://www.lewrockwell.com/2019/11/lk-samuels/the-original-social-justice-warriors-hitler-and-mussolini/

    • Agree: Mark G.
    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
  82. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Almost Missouri

    It’s worth pointing out that a lot of the criticisms of society offered by the Counter-Culture of the 50s and 60s are quite similar to criticisms commonly offered by the dissident right – that society is too materialistic, that mega-corporations have too much power, that the military-industrial complex has too much power, that the media lies, that politics is corrupt, that the endless imperial wars are a bad thing.

    And what the beatniks and hippies referred to as The Establishment is to a large extent what the dissident right refers to as the Deep State.

    The dissident right has more in common with the 50s/60s counter-culture than most dissident rightists would care to admit. Both movements are responses to a perception that western society has lost its way. In some ways the dissident right is the Counter-Culture 2.0 – there are differences as well as similarities but both movements would like to achieve a cultural revolution rather than a mere political revolution.

    I think it’s worth looking at the 50s/60s counter-culture – looking at the reasons it gained initial successes and the reasons it ultimately failed. There could be some valuable lessons there.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  83. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Barbarossa

    In the counter-culture I think there was the usual mix of honest critics along with the fashionable hangers on and bandwagon jumpers.
    As with many movements there are more of the latter than the former.
    The fact that the counter-culture did not really have a coherent vision for moving past what they were criticizing doomed them to fail in their visions of change.

    Yes, and I think that’s why the dissident right has failed. A lack of a coherent plan, plus the fact that (like the counter-culture) it includes a lot of nuts and grifters.

    Both the counter-culture and the dissident right offered some valid criticisms and the reasons that both failed are worth studying.

    Both the Counter-Culture and the dissident right massively underestimated the power and the ruthlessness of the Establishment and both underestimated the Establishment’s ability to either undermine or co-opt its critics.

    • Replies: @A123
  84. A123 says:
    @dfordoom

    Both the Counter-Culture and the dissident right massively underestimated the power and the ruthlessness of the Establishment and both underestimated the Establishment’s ability to either undermine or co-opt its critics.

    In this case, “Did the Establishment underestimate the patriotism and persistence of MAGA Populism?”, is the question that must be tested in the next 1-3 years.

    MAGA Trump Populism is openly targeting the GOP Establishment for extermination. GOP(e) Liz Cheney, a flagship leader, is being pummeled by her GOP(MAGA) primary rival in a well funded and well executed manner. Almost everybody on Team GOP(e) Judas is retiring or challenged.

    GOP(e) Phase II has already launched with Nikki Haley and immediately hit resistance while trying to reach the beachhead. (1)


    Wind Testing Complete Nikki Haley Rises in Opposition to, Well, Everything the Polls Say She Should Oppose

    Reviewing FEC reports for Nikki Haley’s Political Action Committee (PAC), Stand For America, reflects the professional DeceptiCon is in the money gathering phase with no expenditures. [LINK] This is predictable in the extreme and CTH again issues a warning: Beware Nikki Haley folks.

    After staying silent on critical issues until after the polling is complete, Nikki Haley now rises to give her opinion on all things currently political. Suddenly Haley is against the corporations that are boycotting Georgia; she is aghast at the border crisis created by Joe Biden, and she supports the efforts of President Trump to fight back against the leftist horde.

    Funny that, because only a few weeks ago she said:

    “I don’t think [Trump’s] going to be in the picture,” she said, matter-of-factly. “I don’t think he can. He’s fallen so far.” […] “We need to acknowledge he let us down,” she said. “He went down a path he shouldn’t have, and we shouldn’t have followed him, and we shouldn’t have listened to him. And we can’t let that ever happen again.” (link)

    CTH cannot warn strongly enough of the predictable situation we will soon face. The entire DeceptiCon wing of the professional political class is going to come out advancing the case for Nikki Haley to be the standard-bearer of the GOP. Haley is the Mitt Romney of John McCains. Haley’s PAC now has their own Youtube channel.

    Subsequently, Nikki Haley tried another comical maneuver to deliver a Trump quasi-endorsement. (2)

    Oh how this video snippet is buckets of typical Nikki Haley. At least she confirms her intent to run for the presidency in 2024… a position she previously denied. Alas her DeceptiCon retreads are terribly worn, yet the visible pattern they leave is unmistakable.

    In this video soundbite from today [MSM Story Here] the opportunistic wind-tester known as Nikki Haley, the Mitt Romney of John McCains, says she will not run for reelection against President Trump should he decide to run.

    The net-Nazi speech control team has already tried to shutdown Conservative Treehouse, and CTH is now on what should be a 100% resilient, anti-Nazi, redundant architecture.
    _____

    • Dissident Right v1.0 “Trump’s First Term” undermined by a GOP(e) Senate was only the 1st Act.
    • 2nd Act is now with Führer Biden.
    • 3rd Act will be Vice Führer Harris and Redistricting yield a MAGA House of Representatives.

    The 4th & 5th Act have yet to be written, but President DeSantis springs immediately to mind. A feeding frenzy between the SJW Corporations and the SJW True Believers also seems likely. Such things would be beautiful to behold.

    PEACE 😇
    _________

    (1) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2021/04/07/wind-testing-complete-nikki-haley-rises-in-opposition-to-well-everything-the-polls-say-she-should-oppose/

    (2) https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2021/04/12/laughable-nikki-haley-says-she-will-back-trump-and-stand-down-if-he-runs-for-reelection-in-2024/

  85. Rosie says:
    @Anonymous

    You’re a liar and a troll.

    If they had spent their youth wisely and reproduced, America would still be a mostly European country with a favorable age distribution.

    And apparently one that has some special clairvoyant knowledge of unknowable counterfactuals.

  86. Rosie says:
    @V. K. Ovelund

    starve yourself.

    To hell with that.

    No anorexia without anorectics!

    Query:

    Why is it that I can legally buy a Big Gulp but not a diet pill?

    Anybody know?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anorectic

    • Replies: @Rosie
  87. dfordoom says: • Website
    @V. K. Ovelund

    The system we have today is obviously not the same as “classical” fascism. Just as neo-liberalism is not the same as classical liberalism and neo-conservatism is not the same as as classical conservatism. That’s why I describe the current system as neo-fascism – it’s a kind of mutation of fascism.

    But I still think fascism is a more accurate (if imperfect) descriptor of our current system than capitalism or communism or socialism.

    Plus it’s a useful rhetorical device to throw the accusation of fascism at our rulers and at SJWs and Wokeists and the antifa crowd. It triggers them.

    Apart from economic issues some of the key similarities between classical fascism and today’s neo-fascism are worship of the military and the increasing tendency to see individuals as totally subservient to the state.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
  88. Rosie says:
    @Rosie

    BTW Mr. Overland, for what it’s worth, I think periodic fasting is good for the soul. I’m a Protestant, but I used to fast on Good Friday for 24 hours (no food) and give up something substantial for the whole duration of Lent.

    I could never do that now because moms have to be alert at all times and hangry moms are not good and patient moms. I figure making a special effort to be a good mom during Lent is sufficient for now, though I may well resume my previous efforts in a few years.

    I say all of this because people act like it’s some sort of mystery that women have less tolerance for the brain fog and irritability occasioned by dieting after they have kids.

    https://www.themonastery.org/blog/overweight-pastor-women-must-stay-slim-for-their-husbands

  89. @V. K. Ovelund

    The best things in life are free.

  90. MattinLA says:
    @dfordoom

    And why isn’t simple freedom appealing?

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  91. dfordoom says: • Website
    @MattinLA

    And why isn’t simple freedom appealing?

    There’s nothing simple about freedom. What do you mean by freedom? Isn’t open borders simple freedom? Isn’t drug legalisation simple freedom? Isn’t the abolition of all censorship simple freedom? Isn’t the right for a man to wear a frock and be recognised as a woman simple freedom? Wouldn’t the complete legalisation of prostitution be simple freedom? Aren’t Gay Pride Marches and Drag Queen Story Hour simple freedom? Isn’t the right to choose your gender from one of the hundred or so available choices simple freedom?

    Most liberals would say so, and the vast majority of libertarians would agree. But I’d say it’s a reasonable bet that most dissident rightists would be opposed to most if not all of those things. So the dissident right certainly doesn’t stand for simple freedom.

    In reality freedom is never simple. And I’ve never seen anything that would suggest to me that the dissident right stands for simple freedom.

    And quite apart from that most people don’t want freedom. They prefer to be told what to do and what to think. The urge to conform is a very strong human urge. Most people are afraid of freedom.

    • Agree: Dissident
  92. Twinkie says:
    @RoatanBill

    I live on Roatan island

    Are you a native Honduran or a Western retiree?

    I think I’ll take my chances with medical care in the U.S. I shudder to think what the 5-year prostate cancer survival rate is in Honduras, given that even Denmark has half the rate of the United States.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  93. Twinkie says:
    @res

    I largely agree with that, but I think we should consider adding another category to the discussion. I believe it would be helpful for the government to be involved in ensuring every citizen of this country (I consider those in the country illegally a separate issue) has some level of baseline care.

    In the thread from which AE quoted me, I wrote the following: https://www.unz.com/anepigone/make-the-market-work-for-ordinary-americans/#comment-4562506

    If I were the emperor of the United States, this is what I would do for both welfare and public medical care. I would set a very strict threshold of poverty under which the government will provide minimum subsidies for sustenance (food) and medical care. Above that threshold, I would make being gainfully employed a condition of both (to be phased out as income level rises) – which is basically what President Clinton and the GOP-controlled congress hammered out as the solution for the growing welfare problem.

    The rest of the population would be much better served by a tax-incentivized health savings account (to be used mainly for cash payments for primary care + deductible in the even of serious or catastrophic injuries or illnesses) combined with a high deductible catastrophic health insurance with a low premium.

    Something like that would allow tracking changes over time and catching issues before they become catastrophic.

    “Preventative care” has become a big buzzword in medicine, and it sounds pretty good to me. I certainly get myself tested, scoped, and scanned as my insurance plan allows. However, the statistical evidence that “preventative care” (aside from the few obvious procedures such as colon cancer screening for middle-aged and/or high-risk populations) actually results in substantial savings in medical expenditures is rather scant.

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
  94. Twinkie says:
    @Almost Missouri

    Thank you. I read it and replied.

  95. @Twinkie

    I’m one of the thousands of US and Canadian folks on the island. We mingle in with the native British descendants and English is the primary language.

    Medical care is probably better in the US. However, living is better on the island. No radar guns. No traffic lights, stop signs or traffic jams. It gets all the way down to 70 degrees in winter so there’s no hibernating for months on end. Living expenses are reasonable.

    The best part is the level of freedom one has here. It’s something a USian has no concept of, having never experienced it. Instead of retiree, I prefer to think of myself as a political refugee.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  96. Twinkie says:
    @RoatanBill

    I’m one of the thousands of US and Canadian folks on the island.

    Forgive me for saying so, but you are an expat living on a fantasy island. Of course things seem unbelievably inexpensive – you didn’t make a living there like a native. You live in that in-between world with Western education and income and Third World expenses. Something tells me though that if you were to experience a serious illness, you won’t be talking so cheerfully about paying $0.08 per hour for your oncologist and hightail it back to the U.S. or Canada for serious medical care.

    I have known lots of Western expats who talked up how good life was in the Third World until they got sick or experienced crime/violence/extralegal expropriation and then quietly escaped or sought redress back in the West. There is a reason (or a thousand) why many, many more Hondurans come to the U.S. than the other way around, notwithstanding our “rigged” medical system.

    Medical care is probably better in the US.

    ”Probably”?

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  97. @Twinkie

    Actually, you’re the one living in a fantasy world where the Fed controls the economy, the Fed Gov makes war on the rest of the world, where debt is slowly showing that living beyond your real means eventually catches up with you. The entire reserve currency fraud is unraveling in real time. Large parts of the world no longer want to accept the exported inflation the US has on offer.

    FYI – Check out this graph: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WM1NS of dollar creation. Do you actually think this won’t lead to hyperinflation?

    There’s no such thing as a consumer economy. That doesn’t exist; it’s a manufactured fantasy. Only a producer economy can last because it generates wealth by turning low grade goods into high value items. When finance replaced manufacturing in the US, the die was cast. The US economy is a bankers trick to fleece the population and they’re just about done consolidating their winnings with the Fed holding 1/3 of all mortgages and the rent and mortgage payment moratorium time bomb ready to explode whenever TPTsB decide to make huge swaths of the population homeless or bankrupt existing property owners.

    There are no riots on the island. Baltimore and St. Louis now have higher murder rates than San Pedro Sula. The US political system is purposely importing people with no 1st world skills to tax the shit out of you to support them. They’ll vote to take what you’ve got.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
  98. What about the relatively novel subscription model?

    That’s how essentially how healthcare worked for the working class under the “lodge practice” model a century ago. This article has a brief, overly positive explanation of how it worked:
    http://www.freenation.org/a/f12l3.html

    Note the article addresses the perverse incentives pointed out by Almost Missouri:

    The doctor received a regular salary on a retainer basis, rather than charging per item; members would pay a yearly fee and then call on the doctor’s services as needed. If medical services were found unsatisfactory, the doctor would be penalized, and the contract might not be renewed. Lodge members reportedly enjoyed the degree of customer control this system afforded them. And the tendency to overuse the physician’s services was kept in check by the fraternal society’s own “self-policing”; lodge members who wanted to avoid future increases in premiums were motivated to make sure that their fellow members were not abusing the system.

    One thing it glosses over was the extent to which the broader medical establishment reacted against it. When I looked into it some years back, other sources described how hospitals actively colluded to turn away patients who received lodge care. Of course, that wouldn’t be legal today.

    • Thanks: Audacious Epigone
  99. @A123

    @A123 and @Mark G.

    Fellas, the fascists were and are not leftists. Non-libertarian does not equal non-right.

    You are literally talking to a fascist right now. How leftist do I seem to you?

    I think that you are letting the word socialism confuse you: it has been used for so many, contradictory purposes that it is becoming a useless word.

    One suspects that you are aware of Horseshoe Theory. Whatever the abstract merits of the theory might be, the (horse)shoe fits.

  100. @dfordoom

    But I still think fascism is a more accurate (if imperfect) descriptor of our current system than capitalism or communism or socialism.

    Plus it’s a useful rhetorical device to throw the accusation of fascism at our rulers and at SJWs and Wokeists and the antifa crowd. It triggers them.

    Heh. Triggers?

    Well, there is that. Good point.

  101. @RoatanBill

    There are no riots on the island.

    I am glad that it is working for you.

    We cannot all move there, though, but only you and a handful of others. Meanwhile, life in the U.S. still has many fine points in its favor—even while the Revolution is underway.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
    , @RoatanBill
  102. A123 says:
    @V. K. Ovelund

    Many words have evolved meaning over time. Some have become so confused as to be mostly worthless, such as Conservative & Liberal.

    Antifa fits the definition of fascist:

    “fasces, the bundle of sticks surrounding the axe used as a symbol of strength by the Etruscans and Romans. It emphasized the need for everyone needing to work together.

    Antifa demands that everyone work together for their purposes.

    I suspect that you are aware of Horseshoe Theory. Whatever the abstract merits of the theory might be, the (horse)shoe fits.

    Because Left/Right has little meaning the horseshoe concept breaks down. Left Authoritarianism and Right Authoritarianism are not ends of a horse shoe.

    How leftist do I seem to you?

    To the extent “Left” has meaning, you espouse very Left beliefs. You often agree with Left Ilhan Omar and Left Rashid Tlaib.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
  103. Twinkie says:
    @V. K. Ovelund

    I am glad that it is working for you.

    I bet you that guy accesses Medicare in the US or Canada when he gets sick. What little I’ve read of Honduran healthcare is pretty primitive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Honduras

    But he’ll talk shit about medical care in North America in the mean time.

    We cannot all move there, though, but only you and a handful of others.

    Note he compares (favorably) the murder rate to Baltimore. What fraction of non-black Americans live in Baltimore?

    Honduras has close to 40 homicides per 100,000 people annually (the U.S. with 25% of the population that is black and Hispanic still has only about 5 per 100,000). It is the top five most homicidal country in the world. You don’t want to move there.

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  104. dfordoom says: • Website
    @V. K. Ovelund

    Fellas, the fascists were and are not leftists. Non-libertarian does not equal non-right.

    I agree that they weren’t really leftists. But they weren’t far right either. Fascism was an interesting attempt to create a new system which (in theory) combined the best features of capitalism and socialism with a heavy dose of nationalism thrown in. Mussolini’s model of fascism seemed quite promising in some ways.

    Modern neo-fascism manages to combine the worst features of capitalism and socialism but it’s fascism in the sense that it’s still an attempt to combine capitalism and socialism.

    Classical fascism was very statist and it was non-democratic. A lot of people on UR think that that’s enough to make it leftist which is a sign of the weakness of the left-right model, and also a symptom of the simplistic knee-jerk thinking that is so common around these parts. Remember this is UR where anyone to the left of Barry Goldwater is a goddamn commie so you don’t get much clear thinking on politics around here.

    Classical fascism certainly put the interests of the state (which was seen as being synonymous with the interests of society) ahead of individual rights. Whether you think that was a good thing or a bad thing is a matter of taste.

    Our current system is tending more and more towards sacrificing individual rights and exalting the power of the state so it’s tending more and more towards fascism in that sense.

    Neo-fascism appears on the surface to be internationalist rather than nationalist but in the case of modern American neo-fascism that’s an illusion. The internationalism of modern American neo-fascism is simply American imperialism made to look more respectable by a lot of blatantly dishonest hogwash about human rights.

    The nationalism of classical fascism also had a tendency to morph into imperialism.

    Modern neo-fascism claims to be liberal but in reality the liberalism is largely an illusion as well.

  105. @Twinkie

    I’ll be 70 this month. I intend to file for Social Security since I paid for it. If necessary, I intend to use Medicare since I also spent decades paying for US infrastructure that I no longer get to use since I’m a considerable distance away. I paid my dues.

    My primary complaint with the US medical system is its insane cost and that the insurance mafia joined the medical mafia to further increase it with full gov’t cooperation. A secondary complaint is with the laws that treat adults like children, requiring a permission slip (prescription) to purchase medicines that waste my time and cost me money for no good reason that again ratchets up cost. I can purchase anything I want over the counter here.

    My overall impression of doctors everywhere isn’t all that favorable. They’re salesmen for Big Pharma that we get to pay for. They largely take credit for what the immune system actually accomplishes. Just look at the vaccination push for proof. Doctors know next to nothing about nutrition and want to check as many boxes as possible on their forms for compensation while taking as little time as possible per patient. I respect surgeons because they have an identifiable skill; doctors, not so much.

    My mentioning murder rates was to convey that the US isn’t insulated. It’s the trend that’s to be recognized and it’s not looking good since BLM and antifa are now supported by the gov’t in power. Two of my former employees from the island are now on welfare in the Boston area and it appears will soon be given voting rights and citizenship. The US regime has swung the immigration / invasion doors wide open to minimize you. The US is tending toward a police state more every day. I just knew over a decade ago where things were going and you didn’t.

    Just like you don’t want to live in Baltimore, I don’t want to live on the Honduran mainland. Roatan may be part of Honduras as a political entity, but it has little to do with greater Honduras.

    • Replies: @Reactive Reaction
  106. @A123

    Let me disregard your remarks regarding Omar and Tlaib, for the rest of your remarks are, as usual, rather interesting.

    … fasces, the bundle of sticks surrounding the axe used as a symbol of strength by the Etruscans and Romans. It emphasized the need for everyone needing to work together.

    Accurate as far as it goes, so long as the “everyone” is correctly understood to mean “all our own people, our extended kin.”

    If it’s universal, whether in theory or in practice, then it is not fascist.

    Because Left/Right has little meaning the horseshoe concept breaks down. Left Authoritarianism and Right Authoritarianism are not ends of a horse shoe.

    Yes, many believe this, and I can see why. Unfortunately, during my (in some ways) ill-spent life, I have spent a fair bit of time during various decades at the right tip of the horseshoe, in person, in the flesh. I can report to you that repeated attempts in a multitude of contexts to join the left and right tips have met with 100 percent failure. All that happens is that some individuals leap the gap, to the jeers of their former comrades.

    That is why it’s a horseshoe. The gap is often leapt, never joined. There exists no middle station of compromise between, except by going long round the other way, through the spectra of moderate liberalism and conservative order.

    • Replies: @A123
  107. Mark G. says:
    @V. K. Ovelund

    I think that you are letting the word socialism confuse you: it has been used for so many, contradictory purposes that it is becoming a useless word.

    Labels often have fuzzy meanings and change over time. “Liberal” originally meant opposition to the old feudalistic order. It then switched to its current meaning so now the original liberals often call themselves libertarians.

    I see people on here leaving comments that sound libertarian to me but deny they are libertarians. That is probably because they mentally identify libertarians as believing in cultural libertinism, an open borders immigration policy, race denialism or supporting BLM like the last Libertarian presidential candidate did.

    This hasn’t always been true. As the country has moved left not only has liberalism moved left but so has conservatism and libertarianism. For example, older libertarians like Mises, Hayek, Friedman and Rothbard all opposed open borders. Younger libertarians have the same cultural influences as everyone else. I’ve always thought whatever political belief you have, you want to avoid utopianism and make sure whatever ideas you advocate actually work in the real world. For example, having some sort of minimalistic welfare system to take care of people who can’t care for themselves like the very elderly, children or the mentally ill might be a good idea for practical reasons even if it is not strictly libertarian.

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
  108. A123 says:
    @V. K. Ovelund

    The horseshoe metaphor implies TWO, however there are actually MANY mutually exclusive groups at the authoritarian end of the spectrum. For example — Black Nationalists, White Nationalists, and Mexican Nationalists.

    Lumping Black & Mexican together as Left does not make a great deal of sense to me. It seems much more practical to group all “Race/Ethnic” Nationalist groups together as they share common authoritarian characteristics. They align with the DNC Corporate Globalist world view as special interests demanding special consideration.

    “Race/Ethnic” Nationalist groups do not fit in the MAGA Populist end of the spectrum. Improving conditions for U.S. workers benefits citizens of all ethnicities.

    PEACE 😇
     

  109. @V. K. Ovelund

    Do you ever get the feeling that you’re the frog in the pot and the heat is being turned up?

    The US will be ground zero for the new normal if the criminals that run the gov’t and the major corporations get their way with the digital dollar. Once that happens, all pretense for democracy, human rights, etc goes out the window. White people are losing their rights every day even now.

    With the digital dollar, they will turn off access to your own funds if you don’t behave. No jab and your funds won’t work but in a 5 mile radius of your home because you’re a plague carrier. As a commenter on Unz you’ll be in a database that denies access to ammo purchases. You’re grocery purchases will be monitored so if you’re overweight, there’s only vegetables for you to purchase.

    I’m making this up, but deep down you know it’s not only possible, but probable.

    The fine points are getting fewer and fewer. I got out of the pot 16 years ago,

    • Replies: @Realist
  110. Realist says:
    @RoatanBill

    The US will be ground zero for the new normal if the criminals that run the gov’t and the major corporations get their way with the digital dollar. Once that happens, all pretense for democracy, human rights, etc goes out the window.

    Absolutely correct. I do not know why anyone would be giddy about digital currency…it is another tool for subjugation and control.

    • Replies: @A123
  111. @A123

    Lumping Black & Mexican together as Left does not make a great deal of sense to me.

    I don’t have a good answer. Maybe you have a point.

    • Thanks: A123
  112. A123 says:
    @Realist

    Mandatory digital currency us not coming to the U.S. anytime soon.

    How many Elites only want a method of payment that can be automatically followed? Eliot Spitzer was brought down by electronic records associated with bank withdrawals.

    If greenbacks go away, U.S. inventiveness will create an alternative physical option to take its place. The short term solution would be tokens from major casinos.
    _____

    Truly despotic countries like Germany may try go 100% digital to support the monstrous job killing evil known as as “negative interest rates”. However, they must leave the Euro € if they wish to make the attempt.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Realist
  113. @dfordoom

    I wasn’t lionising the counter-culturalists, merely pointing out that the criticisms they were making back in the 60s have turned out to be substantially correct.

    Been thinking about this… I have to revise.

    They were right about the CIA and the FBI and about stupid imperial wars like Vietnam. But the counterculture also destroyed the moral fabric of society, so on the whole, they did harm. Read some beat poetry. A bunch of perverts.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  114. @My SIMPLE Pseudonymic Handle

    Alcohol

    …was only introduced to some of these ugly countries by the white man. How did they reproduce before? Clearly more research is needed.

  115. Realist says:
    @A123

    Mandatory digital currency us not coming to the U.S. anytime soon.

    How would you know that?

    • Replies: @A123
  116. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Paperback Writer

    They were right about the CIA and the FBI and about stupid imperial wars like Vietnam. But the counterculture also destroyed the moral fabric of society, so on the whole, they did harm. Read some beat poetry. A bunch of perverts.

    Yes, they were wrong about a lot of things.

    But I grew up despising hippies so it’s disturbing for me to have to admit that they were right about so many things.

    The moral fabric of society continues to deteriorate and I don’t think we can blame ageing ex-beatniks and ex-hippies for all of it.

    The mainstream right has to take some of the blame for exalting the worship of money to the exclusion of everything else. That’s been very damaging to the moral fabric of society. And Woke Capital has done immense harm. I’m not convinced that Woke corporations are all run by ex-hippies.

    Most political/social movements turn out to be right about a lot of things and wrong about a lot of other things.

    The social conservatives who hated the beatniks and hippies so much at the time also turned out to be right about a lot of things and wrong about a lot of other things.

  117. A123 says:
    @Realist

    Mandatory digital currency is not coming to the U.S. anytime soon.

    How would you know that?

    I kindly refer the gentleman to the answer I provided some moments ago #113.

    PEACE 😇

    • Replies: @Realist
  118. Realist says:
    @A123

    I kindly refer the gentleman to the answer I provided some moments ago #113.

    If you think this is the answer, How many Elites only want a method of payment that can be automatically followed? you are very naive. The Elites will write the law to make themselves immune…as they always do.

    • Replies: @A123
  119. midtown says:

    I would mention with regard to higher education that huge amounts of labor are expended on compliance with the accrediting agencies. In years in which a university is being audited (once every five or 10 years, usually), a large number of employees will be working on this almost full-time. And in the end, accreditation will bless both competent and horrible programs alike. This is an outgrowth of the Dept. of Education. Some other system, even pure deregulation, would likely save many thousands of dollars for a student through reduced bureaucracy.

    • Replies: @V. K. Ovelund
  120. @midtown

    I would mention with regard to higher education that huge amounts of labor are expended on compliance with the accrediting agencies.

    I don’t know. I wrote several of those compliance reports, myself, when I was a university instructor. Half the effort lay in gathering, anonymizing and arranging a small but typical sample of marked homework papers and marked examination papers. The duty was annoying but the requirements seemed moderate and sensible to me.

    [MORE]

    I do not know what the dean’s office had to do, but my department had one professor (out of about 100) who coordinated the effort part-time as side-work. It wasn’t truthfully that bad.

    There were two accreditation boards that had to be satisfied. Neither was especially onerous, as long as the instructor kept abreast of the duty in real time. (Once, I omitted to keep a copy of a needed examination paper, so had to find the student the next semester and politely ask him if he wouldn’t mind finding it: he’d thrown it away, but another student found a copy of a similar paper that he’d left at his parents’ house and kindly returned it to me, and the board accepted that, instead. It wasn’t a big deal.)

    Have you had a different experience?

  121. A123 says:
    @Realist

    If you think this is the answer, How many Elites only want a method of payment that can be automatically followed? you are very naive. The Elites will write the law to make themselves immune…as they always do.

    The Elites are bright enough to realize that creating a huge problem for themselves, then trying to fix that problem, is a double waste of time. Also, potentially risky if they get the fix wrong.

    There are Elites with interests that *require* physical currency. Do you think the Elites that own Coinstar will volunteer to be wiped out?

    The Elites that own the E-money systems do not want transactions below their minimum threshold for profitability. The U.S. has too many small transactions that will not support 100% electronic processing.
    • How will eight year olds buy Elementary School lunch with electronic currency?
    • Will *every* small Girl Scout Troop have electronic processing capability for transactions of one or two boxes?

    There are huge portions of the U.S. Elite class that have good reason to undercut a 100% digital currency initiative in this country.
    ____

    Any attempt would be pointless & ineffective. Americans will adopt alternative physical currencies. Possibilities include:

    • Casino tokens are counterfeit resistant and easily obtained.
    • Red States (e.g. Florida, Texas) could issue physical currency that exactly matches any weight/size requirement of cancelled Federal coins/bills. This would be a pro-business decision extending the lives of counting & vending machine investments.
    ____

    U.S. Elites are unlikey to volunteer for near certain failure.

    If a nation is going to try this, it will happen elsewhere. It requires a truly authoritarian central government that uses force against dissent. Perhaps Venezuela? Or Iran?

    PEACE 😇

  122. @dfordoom

    Yes, I agree with that …

    … but, consider how not just the “counter-culture”, but often the very same people, who prior to 1989 were doing everything in their power to help the Communist Soviet Union defeat the relatively freer West in the name of those social justice-y things you list, now that Russia has thrown off the Soviet shackles and is itself relatively free and looks out for the welfare of its people, those same counter-cultural critics have now turned on a dime and are baying for imperial, aggressive, intolerant America to go war with mild, moderate, middle-tier Russia over … the mental illness of transsexuals or something.

    Observing this kind of spectacle, there are several possible conclusions:

    1) The 1960 counter-culturalists were not really sincere.

    2) They were sincere, but were of such poor moral character that they never recognized how their criticisms applied to themselves, or when they could, could not correct themselves, or when they could, then the smallest bit of power or influence sufficed to convert them to slavering pro-materialist, pro-imperialist, pro-oppression, etc.

    Or 3) the 1960s counter-culture’s criticisms didn’t mean what they appeared to mean. That is
    “society is too materialistic” actually meant “we will take your property”
    “mega-corporations have too much power” actually meant “we will replace private wealth with government conferment”
    “the military-industrial complex has too much power” actually meant “has too much power not owned by us, as is all other power not owned by us”
    etc.

    These are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

    As for what that means for the dissident right, that’s harder to say. Is today’s right more sincere than yesterday’s left? I don’t know how to measure. One distinction, I think, is that yesterday’s leftists were mostly thus for reasons of fashion and social conformity, whereas virtually none of today’s rightists are thus for those reasons, since the power of fashion and conformity are entirely on the other side.

    • Agree: Twinkie
    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @dfordoom
  123. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Almost Missouri

    … but, consider how not just the “counter-culture”, but often the very same people, who prior to 1989 were doing everything in their power to help the Communist Soviet Union defeat the relatively freer West in the name of those social justice-y things you list, now that Russia has thrown off the Soviet shackles and is itself relatively free and looks out for the welfare of its people, those same counter-cultural critics have now turned on a dime and are baying for imperial, aggressive, intolerant America to go war with mild, moderate, middle-tier Russia over … the mental illness of transsexuals or something.

    Are they really the very same people? The counter-culturalists of the 1950s and 1960s are now dead or are very very old. The leaders of the counter-culture of the 50s and 60s are all dead. Timothy Leary, who advised people to “Turn on, tune in, drop out” has been dead for a quarter of a century.

    The people pushing the transsexual agenda and the Woke agenda and Cold War 2.0 are mostly way too young to have been part of the 50s/60s counter-culture. They might think of themselves as counter-culturalists but they’re representative of a different, later, counter-culture.

    In fact the insanity of the present day is not being pushed by a counter-culture, it’s being pushed by the modern equivalent of the Establishment that the 50s/60s counter-culture opposed.

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  124. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Almost Missouri

    Or 3) the 1960s counter-culture’s criticisms didn’t mean what they appeared to mean. That is
    “society is too materialistic” actually meant “we will take your property”
    “mega-corporations have too much power” actually meant “we will replace private wealth with government conferment”
    “the military-industrial complex has too much power” actually meant “has too much power not owned by us, as is all other power not owned by us”
    etc.

    I think they were sincere.

    The trouble is that as you get older you get cynical and disillusioned. And you realise that the answers are not so simple. It’s easy to reject materialism when you’re a 19-year-old college student. It’s not so easy when you’re 35 and you’re married and you have a mortgage and the kids’ school fees have to be paid and the car needs new tyres.

    It’s easy to say that mega-corporations and the military-industrial complex have too much power but not so easy to figure out how to break that power.

    And there’s also the fact that the Establishment has always been very good at co-opting its own critics. When that idealistic 19-year-old college student is a thirty-something member of a mainstream political party hoping for a political career the temptations to sell out are enormous. Especially when the political system is so thoroughly corrupt.

    Even if you don’t sell out completely you start to make compromises, and once you start to compromise your principles it’s impossible to stop.

    Another factor is that a lot of counter-culturalists were disillusioned by the excesses of the late 60s and early 70s – particularly the drugs and the more extreme manifestations of the Sexual Revolution. So in 1970 you’re attending Woodstock and in 1980 you’re voting for Reagan.

    But I think that at the time most of the counter-culturalists of the 50s and 60s were sincere.

    And the survivors of the Summer of Love are not necessarily now supporters of antifa. Some are now Trump voters. Many are now, by Current Year standards, social conservatives.

    Peter Hitchens was a Trotskyite revolutionary in his youth. Today he’s a conservative Christian who hates the Tories for being too leftist.

    How many actual former 1960s hippies do you see joining antifa or attending BLM rallies or advocating for men in frocks to be able to use the ladies’ room?

    • Replies: @Almost Missouri
  125. @dfordoom

    Are they really the very same people?

    I just gave you two examples who really were the very same people, two examples who happened to be the head of government and the head spy. If you have those two, you hardly need anyone else, yet there are dozens, thousands of others, mostly too obscure to name.

    Timothy Leary,

    Not sure what the point of professional buffoon and junkie Timothy Leary is.

    The people pushing the transsexual agenda and the Woke agenda and Cold War 2.0 are mostly way too young to have been part of the 50s/60s counter-culture.

    The activists in the street may be too young, but the corporate executives pledging their shareholders’ assets and influence to back the woke agenda, the media executives choosing to promote wokeistry, the politicians putting wokery into law (this is the first time anyone has accused Biden of being “too young”) are just the right age to have had their formative years pickled in 1960s counterculture, (which never really ended, even in 1989, when it should have, so even those young street activists still labor under this zombie ideology).

    In fact the insanity of the present day is not being pushed by a counter-culture, it’s being pushed by the modern equivalent of the Establishment that the 50s/60s counter-culture opposed.

    Right, because the counter-culture now is the Establishment, though it still uses the language of the counter-culture.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
    , @Twinkie
  126. @dfordoom

    It’s easy to say that mega-corporations and the military-industrial complex have too much power but not so easy to figure out how to break that power.

    They didn’t “break” it (and never tried very hard to do so). They took it over. “Those are our planes now!” —Ron Silver 1993

    And there’s also the fact that the Establishment has always been very good at co-opting its own critics.

    Like the government diluting its own currency, if you dilute it enough, you no longer have a currency. If you “co-opt” too many critics, it is not they who have been co-opted, it’s you.

    And the survivors of the Summer of Love are not necessarily now supporters of antifa. Some are now Trump voters.

    It is possible the latter exist, but it is certain the former do. Even if the latter do exist, it is irrelevant, as Trump supporters are now formally disenfranchised from everything.

    Peter Hitchens was a Trotskyite revolutionary in his youth. Today he’s a conservative Christian who hates the Tories for being too leftist.

    He also has zero political power, and is marginal even as a media figure.

    How many actual former 1960s hippies do you see joining antifa or attending BLM rallies or advocating for men in frocks to be able to use the ladies’ room?

    Antifa is a young man’s (or womxn’s) game, so obviously antifans were born after the 1960s, but it doesn’t matter. As mentioned in the previous comment, the decision makers nowadays are all children of the revolution, and since the “1960s” counterculture never really ended, least of all in academia and the media, which form young minds, we still live under its baleful influence.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  127. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Almost Missouri

    because the counter-culture now is the Establishment, though it still uses the language of the counter-culture.

    I don’t quite agree with that. Not entirely anyway. Some members of the counter-culture were co-opted by the Establishment. It was a case of the Establishment taking over the counter-culture rather than the counter-culture taking over the Establishment.

    The counter-culturalists may have thought they we going to take over the Establishment but that was wishful thinking.

    The essential nature of the Establishment hasn’t changed and its agenda hasn’t changed.

    1960s counterculture, (which never really ended, even in 1989, when it should have,

    I’ve been talking specifically about the counter-culture of the 50s and 60s. To the extent that the counter-culture still existed in 1989 it was a different counter-culture. By the 80s the counter-culture had largely abandoned its political objectives.

    I’m not sure why the counter-culture should have ended in 1989? The counter-culture was arguably more necessary in the post-Cold War world.

  128. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Almost Missouri

    Another point I haven’t mentioned in regards to the 1950s/1960s counter-culture is that another of the things they were generally right about was personal freedom. Their belief that people should be free to make their own choices was I think substantially correct.

    And it’s very relevant today, when much of our personal freedom has been lost.

  129. @V. K. Ovelund

    I have long held the belief that real nationalism covers the political spectrum, because it recognizes that the left/right paradigm is divisive. It is the best solution to the problem that is important, not where it lies on the ideological spectrum. That is, in my opinion, where fascism and national socialism tried to fit. However, the hatred for these political ideologies was that they were both opposed to usury, and worked to make the power of the banks insignificant.
    I agree about socialism, particularly in the US, where it is equated to communism. As I have posted previously, Marx hi-jacked the movement after the deaths of several of his contemporaries, who detested him. Pure socialism removes the state from the economy. Marx wanted the state to be the economy.

    • Thanks: V. K. Ovelund
  130. @dfordoom

    A big difference between the neo-liberal system and a fascistic one is the former celebrates libertine individualism and abstract propositions about universalizing it everywhere while the latter demands or at least strongly encourages service to the state.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  131. @Rosie

    Veterinary care is affordable out of pocket. Human health care is not. There’s a lot of profundity in your observation there.

    • Replies: @Twinkie
  132. @Barack Obama's secret Unz account

    What’s the difference?

    In theory or in practice?

  133. @Almost Missouri

    Maybe the subscription model won’t scale well, kind of like charter schools. It’s great for healthy people who take care of themselves and have no desire for anything like ‘recreational care’. They want the quick Z-pak subscription for a sinus infection or confirmation about the topical cream for that stubborn rash when these things come up, but are happy to have very affordable coverage and not have to use it. The provider is incentivized to give them what they need on the first go so they won’t see them again for months.

  134. @dfordoom

    A practical issue with the term neo-fascism too is that it implies to the incurious that the people most frequently called fascists today, white proles with bad opinions, are somehow in control of society when almost literally nothing could be further from the truth. I like the term neo-liberalism better because the liberal view (the kind on display at MSNBC which is quite distinct from progressivism) has far more control than anything casually referred to as “fascist” does.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  135. Twinkie says:
    @Almost Missouri

    the politicians putting wokery into law (this is the first time anyone has accused Biden of being “too young”) are just the right age to have had their formative years pickled in 1960s counterculture, (which never really ended, even in 1989, when it should have, so even those young street activists still labor under this zombie ideology).

    David Brooks of all people chronicled their formation in “Bobos in Paradise” published in 2000.

    The word bobo, Brooks’ most famously used term, is an abbreviated form of the words bourgeois and bohemian, suggesting a fusion of two distinct social classes (the counter-cultural, hedonistic and artistic bohemian, and the white collar, capitalist bourgeois). The term is used by Brooks to describe the 1990s successors of the yuppies. Often of the corporate upper class, they claim highly tolerant views of others, purchase expensive and exotic items, and believe American society to be meritocratic.

  136. Twinkie says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    Veterinary care is affordable out of pocket. Human health care is not.

    Very few people request “heroic” intervention to save their pets (though people who use terms such as “furbabies” are more likely to do so). Canine oncology is still pretty rare.

    That said, note that if the 80% of the population went the model I advocate (pay out of pocket for primary care + catastrophic insurance for serious illnesses and injuries), both the primary care and insurance costs would decline dramatically. Billing costs and insurance compliance/admin are a big part of a PCP’s overhead and catastrophic insurance, even now, is only a fraction of the cost of what I call the entitlement insurance.

    Additionally I should note that there is virtually no liability and defensive medicine in veterinary medicine. Animals are legally considered property and there are very few lawsuits and even fewer successful ones. That alone would cut costs by, say, 20-33%.

    And don’t get me started on the relative lack of regulations in vet med. There is a reason why narcotics abuse is the highest among vets. They don’t have Fort Knox-like vaults and related protections as human med staff do regarding narcotics.

  137. @A123

    Black Nationalists, White Nationalists, and Mexican Nationalists

    How are these things mutually exclusive? Only if they’re fighting for control over the others are they mutually exclusive. If one goes here, the other there, and the other over there to live separately from one another, what’s the issue?

    • Replies: @A123
  138. A123 says:
    @Audacious Epigone

    Black Nationalists, White Nationalists, and Mexican Nationalists

    How are these things mutually exclusive? Only if they’re fighting for control over the others are they mutually exclusive. If one goes here, the other there, and the other over there to live separately from one another, what’s the issue?

    AE,

    Part of MAGA Populism is, “All U.S. citizen workers gain together“. This is confirmed by Trump’s performance, which helped all race and gender employment numbers (see below).

    In U.S. two party politics:
    • None of these factions align with the new MAGA Populist GOP. Therefore,
    • All of these factions must align with the Globalist DNC.

    The various exclusionary nationalist, racial animus based, special interest groups are going to have to slug it out for Democrat Party dominance after the Blue Catastrophe midterms blow up the existing DNC power structure.

    PEACE 😇

     

  139. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Audacious Epigone

    A big difference between the neo-liberal system and a fascistic one is the former celebrates libertine individualism and abstract propositions about universalizing it everywhere while the latter demands or at least strongly encourages service to the state.

    All our terms for describing political systems and political ideologies are at least a hundred years old and some are two hundred years old. Left, right, conservative, liberal, capitalist, social, communist, fascist, Marxist, anarchist – they all had specific meaning at one time but they no longer mean anything at all.

    We try to deal with that by using terms like neoliberal and neoconservative but those terms are still confusing and misleading.

    I prefer the term neo-fascist rather than neo-liberal simply because I see it it as a useful rhetorical ploy to point out that neo-liberalism has more than a few points of resemblance to classical fascism.

    As for neo-liberalism celebrating libertine individualism, I’m not so sure. I don’t think neo-liberalism celebrates individualism at all – the aim is to create a single global mono-culture. Everybody sharing the same culture, the same political beliefs, the same social values. Maybe it does celebrate libertinism but that’s like the libertinism of Brave New World – it’s an illusion created to disguise the fact that the objective is absolute conformity.

    • Replies: @Reactive Reaction
  140. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Audacious Epigone

    A practical issue with the term neo-fascism too is that it implies to the incurious that the people most frequently called fascists today, white proles with bad opinions, are somehow in control of society when almost literally nothing could be further from the truth. I like the term neo-liberalism better because the liberal view (the kind on display at MSNBC which is quite distinct from progressivism) has far more control than anything casually referred to as “fascist” does.

    That’s a valid point.

  141. @RoatanBill

    Roatan has little to do with greater Honduras AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME.

    Like Belize, it’s quite appealing. Or perhaps, like Chile was for a brief interval in time.

    However, there may come a point in these interesting times we live in when the USMC will no longer be available to rescue you from the inevitable popular moment when torturing you before you are murdered becomes the favorite thing of the local oppressed – and with regard to the savings, well, you can’t take it with you, just like your DNA.

    Have you left any behind?

    • Replies: @RoatanBill
  142. @dfordoom

    ” I don’t think neo-liberalism celebrates individualism at all – the aim is to create a single global mono-culture.”

    The aim is to reduce everyone to a “free individual” who can choose everything about their “identity” –
    “Imagine there’s no countries, it isn’t hard to do – Nothing to kill or die for, and no religion, too” – at which point every single atomized individual, solidarity abolished, will be at the mercy of the merciless forces crafting this Brave New World.

    Every New Year’s Eve, when public squares fill with millions singing John Lennon’s anthem to Hell on Earth, I am filled with despair.

    • Replies: @dfordoom
  143. @Reactive Reaction

    I want to thank you for your obviously sincere concern for my welfare.

    Now that you’ve alerted me to the specific dangers that await, I’ll take extra precautionary measures.

  144. dfordoom says: • Website
    @Reactive Reaction

    The aim is to reduce everyone to a “free individual” who can choose everything about their “identity”

    They’re only free to choose certain approved identities. If a woman (you know, someone born with two X chromosomes and a vagina) says that she identifies as a woman she will be informed that that is an unacceptable identity. If she identifies as a “wife” she will be informed that that is unacceptable and that she must identify as something gender-neutral like a “partner”. And try identifying yourself as a “white person.”

    The objective of identity politics seems to be to erase all meaningful individual identities.

    So freedom is definitely not the objective.

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